Serebii Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Man, bad days be coming for the 3DS if this trend of cancelling games continues.. Yeah, 3 games...one of which was never actually greenlighted, is SO BAD Things do look pretty bleak. I mean, for Nintendo going apeshit with 3rd parties and realising that's their biggest weakness... This feel like the N64 days... That coupled with Wii u cannablising the handheld market, the rise of smartphones and tablets. Things look ultra bleak. But if anyone can pull out a handheld out of the gutter it's Nintendo! I fail to see how Wii U will cannibalise the handheld market. It is not a handheld
Debug Mode Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Yeah, 3 games...one of which was never actually greenlighted, is SO BAD Three BIG games I might add. There was a fuck tonne of fan interest in Mega Man Legends 3, this just seems like commercial suicide. Maybe if there were some ORIGINAL games on the horizon, I would agree with your view. But no, the line up of games to look forward to is dwindling by the day. But I honestly do not understand your sarcasm. This is terrible news for fans and Nintendo who is already experiencing a lack of third party confidence. Although the DS originally had a slow start like the 3DS currently is experiencing, it never suffered from such lack of confidence. I actually hope this shakes up some major shit within Nintendo so they can sort their shit out. Although sales have initially been good (don't know why people presume 3million units is TERRIBLE), the 3DS hasn't lived up to expectations. It is pretty much a handheld that is currently relying on ports and rehashes with aesthetic changes. God.. my confidence in Nintendo has been shot ever since the Wii came out. I would not argue with them dropping out of the hardware business and just being a developer. At least their games are good..
Grazza Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I have defended the 3DS and its games, and I stand by that, but it's definitely a concern if games for it are being cancelled. I'm still enjoying the initial batch of games, but we really need to see more that are on their way by now, especially from 3rd-parties. E3 in particular was disappointing, with (to my knowledge) Luigi's Mansion as the only 3DS game that hadn't been shown before. I can't remember if handheld games are shown at Tokyo Games Show, but I know GDC is the one where Nintendo shows off a really big handheld game like a Zelda. I think we need to see Zelda and Metroid ASAP, as well as some 3rd-party games. God.. my confidence in Nintendo has been shot ever since the Wii came out. I would not argue with them dropping out of the hardware business and just being a developer. At least their games are good.. Nor would I. It's not like the PS1/N64 or PS2/GameCube eras - the other companies' consoles are now objectively better than Nintendo's, always a whole generation ahead. I could not see any problems whatsoever with playing Nintendo games on a PS3 or PS4.
Serebii Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Three BIG games I might add. There was a fuck tonne of fan interest in Mega Man Legends 3, this just seems like commercial suicide. Maybe if there were some ORIGINAL games on the horizon, I would agree with your view. But no, the line up of games to look forward to is dwindling by the day. But I honestly do not understand your sarcasm. This is terrible news for fans and Nintendo who is already experiencing a lack of third party confidence. Although the DS originally had a slow start like the 3DS currently is experiencing, it never suffered from such lack of confidence. I actually hope this shakes up some major shit within Nintendo so they can sort their shit out. Although sales have initially been good (don't know why people presume 3million units is TERRIBLE), the 3DS hasn't lived up to expectations. It is pretty much a handheld that is currently relying on ports and rehashes with aesthetic changes. God.. my confidence in Nintendo has been shot ever since the Wii came out. I would not argue with them dropping out of the hardware business and just being a developer. At least their games are good.. MegaMan Legends 3 was just a prototype they publically revealed. Last I read, they hadn't greenlighted it and it was just a showcase for now and could lead on.
Burny Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Three BIG games I might add. There was a fuck tonne of fan interest in Mega Man Legends 3, this just seems like commercial suicide. Maybe if there were some ORIGINAL games on the horizon, I would agree with your view. But no, the line up of games to look forward to is dwindling by the day. Oh com on! Are you fooling yourself into thinking that an Assassin's Creed game for the 3DS would have been developed by a top team with a notable budget at Ubisoft? It's more likely they'd have done the same as with earlier games of the series: handed it to some of their second or third class mobile gaming teams. And Saints Row Drive By? That was supposed to be in development for XBLA/PSN as well as 3DS and we never saw a single image of either version. That's already pretty telling. The "fuck tonne" of interest in Mega Man Legends 3 didn't exactly result in mail campaigns from fans wanting the project to be green lit. That would incidentally be the only game of the three we ever saw (poor) footage of. Assassin's Creed and Saints Row are both franchises that would be better of on the Vita. For a comfortable 1:1 transition of the game's formulas, the 3DS is far too weak. And with all the fan input the Mega Man Legends devs were asking for, Capcom could probably estimate pretty well how much fan interest was (or rather wasn't) there. As for the third party confidence in the 3DS: I don't expect any major western teams to do projects for the system. They've got their middleware, they've got their game concepts and any platform they would consider investing in will have to support both. They 3DS doesn't support either. The usual suspects (yearly football games etc.) will be there, but about every western high profile developer is occupied with development for home consoles and PCs. As with the DS, the 3DS will have to be supported by Japanese devs. Edited July 19, 2011 by Burny
Serebii Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Don't forget, the Saints Row game wasn't cancelled just on 3DS. It got canned on every single console (it was also being developed for XBLA and as a PSN game). It's not indicative of any 3DS failing at all. People keep using the Saints Row cancelling as fodder against the 3DS, but it's not. Edited July 19, 2011 by Serebii
Debug Mode Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 MegaMan Legends 3 was just a prototype they publically revealed. Last I read, they hadn't greenlighted it and it was just a showcase for now and could lead on. But they were planning to release the prototype on 3DS store to measure fan support. The fact it didn't even at least get that far doesn't show much confidence in the platform. Oh com on! Are you fooling yourself into thinking that an Assassin's Creed game for the 3DS would have been developed by a top team with a notable budget at Ubisoft? It's more likely they'd have done the same as with earlier games of the series: handed it to some of their second or third class mobile gaming teams. And Saints Row Drive By? That was supposed to be in development for XBLA/PSN as well as 3DS and we never saw a single image of either version. That's already pretty telling. The "fuck tonne" of interest in Mega Man Legends 3 didn't exactly result in mail campaigns from fans wanting the project to be green lit. That would incidentally be the only game of the three we ever saw (poor) footage of. You do have a point about Assassins Creed actually, I should have considered that a bit more. Are you joking about the fan interest? Mega Man legends was an extremely popular series and it had a lot of interest including a developers forum for people to submit idea's and even had competitions for characters designs etc. There has been a lot of disappointment on both English and Japanese forums I've been on. Don't forget, the Saints Row game wasn't cancelled just on 3DS. It got canned on every single console (it was also being developed for XBLA and as a PSN game). It's not indicative of any 3DS failing at all. People keep using the Saints Row cancelling as fodder against the 3DS, but it's not. Admittedly, I did not know this. Fair point. I'm still sticking to my guns that something is incredibly wrong that needs to rectified with the 3DS. It is being used as a system to plant ported goods onto with 3D as the only added value compared to other platforms. Sega seems to have given the 3DS until February 2012 with Crush3D now any way, I wonder if that is still pending on their confidence for the system though.
Dyson Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 So I just got back from playing pretty much all of the biggest Nintendo games to come out this year. Ok, wow. You guys will all be buying Super Mario 3DS when it comes out. The game is incredible. It controls like Mario 64, but feels like a cocktail of New Super Mario Bros and Mario 64 in terms of linearity and level design. I was really impressed by the subtle 3D on the game, too, making it a lot easier to judge distance. One problem I had was Mario feeling a bit slippery at times, and grabbing the flagpole was a particularly tricky feat, but I got there in the end. Loved it. Much unlike Luigi's Mansion 2 which was absolute garbage and seemed to run at 15 frames per second, with clunky controls to boot. Total disappointment. Mario Kart 3DS was brilliant, the flying sections allow for some really cool shortcuts that potentially turn in to pitfalls if you mess them up, and the customization looks to shake up the way Mario Kart is played. It felt more like Diddy Kong Racing, which for me is a great thing. I also didn't see any blue shells, so either I got very lucky and didn't get any sent my way or my prayers have been answered Kid Icarus looks to be a great game. The controls are interesting, but have one major major problem that makes the whole thing fall flat: it's not suitable for left handers like myself. You use the circle pad and the stylus at the same time meaning you're forced to use the stylus with the right hand, or use your thumb.. but when you're trying to aim with precision this becomes very difficult. I asked the attendant and he said that there wasn't currently a left handed mode implemented, and unless they consider it, it's just going to be a completely awkward and not fun experience for us lefties. Which is a shame because the parts I did struggle through were brilliant, the on-rails flying sequences felt like Starfox and felt a lot more solid than the on foot sections, which were still fun despite grappling with frustrating rightie only controls. Resident Evil: Revelations was extremely impressive, providing probably the best visuals I've seen on the 3DS so far. The controls felt great and the atmosphere was well built. This looks like it'll be a success and something to look forward to for any Resident Evil fans. I wish I'd spent a bit more time with this game but it was the first one I got to and my mind was telling me to hurry it up so as not to miss out on Skyward Sword and Super Mario Starfox 64 3D was just brilliant. I really enjoyed it, it's been my most anticipated game on the 3DS since I heard of its unveiling and it did not disappoint. The circle pad and the gyro sensors work in unison to bring fantastic precise shooting which builds tenfold on the old analogue stick from the Nintendo 64. There were 3 levels to choose from on the demo but I only did Corneria to avoid spoiling the experience for the actual game, and because it's the most iconic of all of the levels. The 3D was most excellent. Can't wait for this to come out. Plus the demo units were in a shuttle interior with lasers flying everywhere so I felt seriously cool Probably the most surprising game appearance at the event was that of Sonic Generations 3DS, which featured Classic Sonic gameplay, Modern Sonic gameplay and a boss fight which I didn't do. To my surprise I actually preferred the Modern Sonic level to that of the Classic Sonic. Modern Sonic felt a lot like Sonic Rush gameplay, with a building boost bar and homing attacks and the sense of speed was great, but for some reason Classic Sonic felt, again, a little bit slippery. I'm starting to think I don't get on with the Circle Pad on the 3DS. The 3D wasn't as effective as it could have been, but the gameplay and level design felt solid and will be a great platformer for 3DS owners. I also managed to get Modern Sonic completely glitched and fall through the level at one point, causing flashes of green to go whizzing past me as I fell at 2000 MPH, which was fun And then there was Metal Gear Solid 3D, which suffered from a few frame rate issues and a case of far too many loading screens, but the gameplay felt identical to that in the PS2 version, albeit with slightly fiddlier controls. I'm not sure I'll be picking this up now, especially since they're re-releasing MGS2, 3 and Peace Walker on the 360 anyway. In conclusion, the event was really good fun and a great experience. If anyone has any questions about the games or the event or anything else let me know I did take some pictures (we were allowed to take photos, as long as it wasn't of the 3D screens) but I haven't checked out their quality yet. I'll post them a bit later.
Debug Mode Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Sup Dysooooon. Was the Kid Icarus build they were showing the same build as the 3DS events before hand? Or was the multiplayer aspect of it exhibited as well? It's a shame that it's not very accessible to left handers though. How was Sonic Generations in terms of consistent speed? Although people have disagreed with me before hand, I have noticed framerate issues on some 3DS games, did you notice any issues like that?
Dyson Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Framerate issues were obvious on Luigi's Mansion to an incredible degree - I asked the attendant if there was something wrong with my unit. Metal Gear Solid had it during cutscenes too. Aside from that the rest were as smooth as 4 ply toilet paper, including Resident Evil which realy impressed me given the graphical detail in the game. The Kid Icarus build had 3 levels to choose from (with their own difficulty levels of Easy, Medium or Hard) and about 6 weapons to choose from. Allegedly it was a time attack mode in which you could increase your play time by defeating more enemies but I didn't actually see this time limit. I probably missed it Multiplayer wasn't on show on any of the 3DS games. Sonic Generations - the modern level kept a good sense of speed going throughout whereas the classic level had it, but to a lesser degree. It felt like it took a little longer to get speed up than the old sonic games. It's odd, it felt a bit off in comparison to how it felt on the 360 but I couldn't place my finger on what it was. It was a good experience, though.
khilafah Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 But they were planning to release the prototype on 3DS store to measure fan support. The fact it didn't even at least get that far doesn't show much confidence in the platform. You do have a point about Assassins Creed actually, I should have considered that a bit more. Are you joking about the fan interest? Mega Man legends was an extremely popular series and it had a lot of interest including a developers forum for people to submit idea's and even had competitions for characters designs etc. There has been a lot of disappointment on both English and Japanese forums I've been on. Admittedly, I did not know this. Fair point. I'm still sticking to my guns that something is incredibly wrong that needs to rectified with the 3DS. It is being used as a system to plant ported goods onto with 3D as the only added value compared to other platforms. Sega seems to have given the 3DS until February 2012 with Crush3D now any way, I wonder if that is still pending on their confidence for the system though. I am worried about 3rd party support. I really hope it picks up as you cant expect nintendo and capcom to prop up the machine on there own.
Dyson Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 HERE B PIX. Outside! Theming! And THE BEST game booth of the event (seriously I was blown away by how good it was): You know you're at a Nintendo event when the first thing you see upon entering the demo room is a dim white room with mood highlights everywhere
Burny Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 But they were planning to release the prototype on 3DS store to measure fan support. The fact it didn't even at least get that far doesn't show much confidence in the platform... ...or the project. If it was just about the platform, they would've transferred it to the Vita. Going by was shown of the game, they hadn't gone far past the prototype stage. Any concept work done at this point could've been reused and the programming work that was lost, wouldn't have cost them an arm and a leg in this early stage. I'm still sticking to my guns that something is incredibly wrong that needs to rectified with the 3DS. It hasn't had a good and unique game with enough mass appeal to carry the system. Nor are any big-hitting games with proper development time put into them ready. It's extremely expensive for a handheld. Third parties - safe for Capcom's RE Evil Revelations - are taking once again a wait-and-see approach. For most of them it rather seems to be a wait-until-Nintendo-has-pulled-the-platform-out-of-the-mud,-then-let-some-third-class-teams-develop-some-low-profile-project-and-complain-that-it-doesn't-sell-approach. Not that I can fault them for it, but it seems a bit like the typical procedure for a Nintendo platform.
Debug Mode Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 ...or the project. If it was just about the platform, they would've transferred it to the Vita. Going by was shown of the game, they hadn't gone far past the prototype stage. Any concept work done at this point could've been reused and the programming work that was lost, wouldn't have cost them an arm and a leg in this early stage. The whole idea of the project was to develop a prototype and if that sold successfully in the e-shop, they would green light it. So, considering this, why would they develop further than the prototype stage like as you said, it wasn't given the all go yet? The fact they didn't try to cash in and make a quick buck on the prototype is the big give away here that they may not actually have much confidence in the platform. Think about it, Capcom has released so far: Super Street Fighter IV Resident Evil Mercenaries The similarities? Ports. At full price. The only other Capcom game right now announced for 3DS is the only original title, Resident Evil Revelations and that's scheduled for god knows when in 2012. Plenty of time to examine the interest in the 3DS, which sounds similar to how Sega are treating Crush3D by delaying it to 2012. That's also a pretty naive assumption that Megaman Legends wont be moved to Vita. We have absolutely no idea what they plan to do with it yet. It wouldn't surprise me if they did considering the buzz around Vita right about now. There was enough interest to warrant a release and an even bigger outcry after the cancellation..
Burny Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) @Debug_Mode: And what would stop them from announcing the transfer to the Vita right now? What drives them to push on with their far more niche 3D-sound adventure for the 3DS, the Phoenix/Layton crossover and the possibly far more expensive Resident Evil? Why is this the second Mega Man project to be canceled this year (while Mega Man Universe was a XBLA/PSN game)? Why did they even push that far with a project which was never greenlit - even before the success of the 3DS or lack thereof became apparent - which can't have been a pleasant experience for the team? And that was also before the idea to sell a prototype in order to gauge fan interest was revealed. The actual idea sounds pretty much like a desperate last measure in that light. And why does that press statement sound absolutely definite - unlike vague stuff we usually get and would expect if they were shifting it to the Vita right now? Sure, if the 3DS was the hottest gadget in the world right now, they might be more willing to invest in the project, but that doesn't explain why they have possibly more expensive as well as more niche stuff in development. Nor why this isn't the only canceled Mega Man project this year. Oh yeah, RE Revelations isn't the only 3DS game Capcom has in development although it might be the only one coming to the West right now. Edited July 20, 2011 by Burny
Debug Mode Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Capcom like to announce planned releases in the lead up to relevant events. I'm taking this Mega Man cancellation with a pinch of salt until around Tokyo Game Show, and then I'll drop it. My current thoughts are that Capcom isn't too confident in the 3DS or Keiji Inafune's resignation from Capcom which definitely hampered Mega Man Universe's plans. I can understand your argument about the Capcom part, but some thing just doesn't seem right with the 3DS lately and Capcom's behaviour just seems a little strange for something many fans were interested in. Their press statement is in no way definite, as they try to shrug off Inafune's leaving, which is bollocks as that has ruined many plans for the Mega Man franchise. And my bad, I haven't kept up with the games announced for Eastern audiences because of the whole region locking thing.
Burny Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 I can understand your argument about the Capcom part, but some thing just doesn't seem right with the 3DS lately and Capcom's behaviour just seems a little strange for something many fans were interested in. We don't know how many "many fans" actually are. And it's by no means the strangest thing we've seen lately concerning things "many fans" want. This includes a game that's already translated for the western (EU) market btw. and which didn't require some dubious "paid-prototype" promises.
Debug Mode Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 We don't know how many "many fans" actually are. And it's by no means the strangest thing we've seen lately concerning things "many fans" want. This includes a game that's already translated for the western (EU) market btw. and which didn't require some dubious "paid-prototype" promises. Haha good point. Looking back, I have made huge assumptions myself purely based on friends, two english forums and one Japanese forum, which only attract one crowds views rather than a majority opinion. Although I personally can't see Operation Rainfall succeeding, it's incredibly sad that fans have to resort to it. Fair enough publishers don't see their software being viable in a particular market, it's a shame, but a business is a business. But this could easily be avoided if the system wasn't region locked and the fans DID have legitimate options that don't result in piracy. I really hope the guys in the US succeed though.
Fused King Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Framerate issues were obvious on Luigi's Mansion to an incredible degree - I asked the attendant if there was something wrong with my unit. I take it Next Level Games will not overlook this, for 't is basic game creating to not have framerate issues all over the Mansion! Other than the framerate issues, what was your impression of the atmosphere and controls? Or was the demo unplayable?
Dyson Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 It was genuinely quite unplayable, I had to put it down before it begun to annoy me. I was surprised they were showing it in that state. The lack of direction was frustrating too, but then again that type of game isn't really suited to a demo environment.
tapedeck Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Re: knee jerking doom mongers. Look at Nintendo's 3DS titles for winter. If I was a third party I'd be waiting until they had hit home. The install base will then be larger and Nintendo's software developers will be concentrating on Wii U and then producing other (new?) titles for 3DS. The titles will come from third parties, just give it time. In some respects they wont be able to afford to ignore the machine after Nintendo's huge sellers launch on the system. Keep the faith. The system is relatively new and already has a wealth of titles not seen on Nintendo platforms since the 90’s. Big titles are coming, big software houses will have something in the pipeline yet they are, understandably, biding their time. We want top notch titles all of the time yet they take time to make as well.
Dyson Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Trust me, we're all going to be way too busy playing Super Mario 3DS/Mario Kart 3DS/Starfox 3DS at Christmas. The game were just incredible when I played them.
Serebii Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Apparently, the black 3DS is "under review" on US Amazon due to people claiming it has hinge issues
Shorty Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 The hinge is a bit loose on mine, is that the issue?
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