Posted August 20, 2009 Firstly, its "their" not there. Secondly, example? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 20, 2009 Firstly, its "their" not there. Secondly, example? Firstly i dont care Secondly what? really think about what you are asking. do i really need to give examples? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 20, 2009 Call me sadistic (amongst other things) but isn't the death penalty an easy way out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 20, 2009 Firstly, it makes your points look a lot less reputable in my opinion. Secondly, who in their right mind would want to purposely get caught for a real serious crime unless they are crazy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 20, 2009 Firstly, it makes your points look a lot less reputable in my opinion. Secondly, who in their right mind would want to purposely get caught for a real serious crime unless they are crazy? You do understand sarcasm right? It dosent matter how harsh the prisons are people are going to avoid them no matter how harsh they are. No matter what crime they have comitted. But once we get them there why should they have it easy? As for my grammer etc i dont care. I left school ages ago. my english was shit then and it hasnt got any better in the last 8 years thats for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 20, 2009 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, I misread Gizmo's and then your response to this whole debate. Thought you were being serious. Thought it would be something you might say. My bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 20, 2009 I think some of you lot need think about what you are saying, sound almost as ruthless as him. The judges in this land are not as ruthless as him, they show compassion for a dying person. It will be painful and its not like he's getting out of anything? As one of the relatives said, he's only served the equivalent of 11 days for each person killed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 20, 2009 Call me sadistic (amongst other things) but isn't the death penalty an easy way out? I don't think so... once they are gone, that's it. Terminated. Sewage cleanup, pestilence removal, target neutralised. Once you're dead, you're dead. And in prison these days, they often seem to live quite cushy lives. Then they can be freed like Sean Mercer when they're middle-aged. Also, they might have a conscience crunch. They may believe in God, in which case they die having commit heinous crimes and probably face a life in hell. Or they don't, in which they probably don't believe in Heaven or Hell, thus are going six feet under for good. It's a pretty good punishment for anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 21, 2009 Some nice mature flaming and petty insults here. Releasing him is wrong, did you see the reception he got in Libya? A hero's welcome. This murderer. A hero. He gave no-one a chance to spend the last few moments of their lifewith their loving family, and he is granted leave to do that which he himself denied others. He knew the penalty for his crime but went ahead anyway, and now we feel sorry for him. Should people who knowingly get themselves into a huge mass of debt be let off their debts? No. Should people who rape children be let off the beatings in prison? No. So why should a man who premeditated murder be given compassion? And how about the "compassionate" Scottish justice system? Christ! Every time something good comes from the North of the UK it's a case of "The Brave Scot" or "The Compassionate Decision of the Scottish Judges" yet when things go wrong it's all "Britain's" fault. It makes me sick, be Scotland or be part of Britain, make a decision one way or the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 21, 2009 If they are cheering him it makes our cause for war in Iraq look poor, more reason to attack this lot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 21, 2009 I think if we do bring back the death penalty, it should only be used on people who were "caught red handed", if you will (To avoid innocent people getting killed by accident). We don't have "definitely guilty" as a verdict though, we only have guilty and not guilty. If you have that system you're going to have a lot of people appealing (understandably) on the grounds of "You're obviously not sure you've got the right person because I didn't get the death penalty. So why am I locked up when you obviously doubt the verdict?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 21, 2009 We don't have "definitely guilty" as a verdict though, we only have guilty and not guilty. If you have that system you're going to have a lot of people appealing (understandably) on the grounds of "You're obviously not sure you've got the right person because I didn't get the death penalty. So why am I locked up when you obviously doubt the verdict?" Of course it wouldn't be as simple as I stated in my post. My point was that the main reason the death penalty was gotten rid of, at least in Canada, was because people were hung who were latter found to be innocent. So if it had to be brought back, there would need to be a way to avoid that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 21, 2009 fella's a cunt, deserved to die alone and unloved in prison. same can be said for alot of people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 21, 2009 Of course it wouldn't be as simple as I stated in my post. My point was that the main reason the death penalty was gotten rid of, at least in Canada, was because people were hung who were latter found to be innocent. So if it had to be brought back, there would need to be a way to avoid that. There isn't a way to avoid that. If you have the death penalty, sooner or later innocent people will be killed by the state. If the death penalty is going to be brought back, you have to be willing to make that trade off. We already try not to convict people wrongly, it doesn't always work. Another thing to consider - juries are less likely to convict someone if they think they may have the danger of an innocent man being put to death on their concious later if new evidence comes to light. So it's quite possible that bringing back hanging will result in more criminals walking free. In a similar vien, people talk about bringing back hanging for child abuse without taking into account that most abuse is carried out by family members and thinking about what a powerful tool is it for an abuser to say "If you say anything they'll kill me" or how much less likely a wife is to voice her suspicions about her husband if he may be put to death. As for "We'll only kill them if they definitely did it", punishments are given based on the severity of the crime, not the likelyhood you did it. You'd end up putting someone to death for one murder because there was a lot of compelling evidence and then giving a serial killer who murdered 10 people a lfie sentence because there was a bit of a fuck up with the DNA evidence which was later rectified. Where does that continue to? You might have been involved in this armed robbery, so you just get six months. You were in the area of this mugging, so serve a week in the nick. It's unworkable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 If they are cheering him it makes our cause for war in Iraq look poor, more reason to attack this lot Err...what? Lockabie has nothing to do with Iraq, and we're not planning any military strikes against Libya any time soon, to my knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 Err...what? Lockabie has nothing to do with Iraq, and we're not planning any military strikes against Libya any time soon, to my knowledge. That's right. We're not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 If there was actual direct evidence that al-Megrahi did it then he should definitely not be released. However, all the evidence is circumstantial, so technically he shouldn't have been convicted, and he may not have even done it. The reason he was released on the condition he dropped his appeal was to prevent a re-examination of the evidence and it's validity. If he did do it, he's a merciless fuck who shouldn't have been let out. Oh, and as for the death penalty, I cannot ever see a way of justifying the killing of a person who, at that exact moment in time, is not a threat to anyone. If they may become a threat again, keep them locked up. Killing them makes you just as bad as them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 Mcoy finds it hard to comment on a situation like this. Mcoy understands this man may have killed all those people in those planes but Mcoy has heard there was never direct evidence to actually link this person to the murders. Mcoys first thought was to think that fucker should be left locked up and to rot to death, after all Mcoy knows that someone who has done something like that has pretty much surrendered any of their rights to death with their family outside of prison. Mcoy then thinks that if the evidence is not accurate enough he cannot make a judgement like this, Mcoy wouldn't want to be left locked up for life for something that he didn't do. Mcoy cannot comment as Mcoy does not know what really happend, Mcoy can only hope that perhaps a good decision has been made and someone who possibly wasn't responsible got what little freedom they had left returned to them. Mcoy would feel sorrow if the wrong person had been locked up and the real culprits were still at large. Mcoy cannot make the assumption as Mcoy knows little facts about the case. Mcoy would also like to give a big fuck you to Lybia, Mcoy dosen't know if the man is guilty or not but Mcoy knows Lybia is stirring shit for the sake of stirring shit. Mcoy could only imagine what their response would be if they released someone back to the UK who thought they bombed one of their mosques or holy areas and we welcomed them back as a hero. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 Mcoy would also like to give a big fuck you to Lybia, Mcoy dosen't know if the man is guilty or not but Mcoy knows Lybia is stirring shit for the sake of stirring shit. Mcoy could only imagine what their response would be if they released someone back to the UK who thought they bombed one of their mosques or holy areas and we welcomed them back as a hero. McCoy speaks the truth! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 Compassion and mercy should always be prioritized. This man is dying, and whether he's guilty of the crimes he's been convicted of will never be known. An interesting thought, however; no one is behing bars for Lockerbie. So, whoever it was, al Mugrahi or otherwise, clearly got away with taking 270 lives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 Err...what? Lockabie has nothing to do with Iraq, and we're not planning any military strikes against Libya any time soon, to my knowledge. I am saying Libyas actions against us are a more just cause for war than the ones for Iraq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 ... I'll put it this way. I don't think they should bring back the death penalty, for the reason innocent people have died because of it. If people decide to bring it back (and for the reasons you discussed in your post, I wouldn't support this), there can be no shred of doubt that the person is guilty if you must kill them. Do not mistake my post for saying that the death penalty should be brought back. That's not what I'm saying. My point is only, that if there is any doubt someone's guilt, they shouldn't be killed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 22, 2009 At the end of the day, he was only released to stop another appeal from happening. The whole compassionate thing is just a cover story. The Scottish goverment was obviously pissing themselves worrying about what might have come out about the original investigation. It's a wonder they actually convicted him in the first place, their whole case was a joke from start to finish. In my view, no one should get compassionate leave if they've committed such terrible crimes. If you can't to the time, don't do the crime. It's a simple analogy but it's very true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 23, 2009 He should have been left to rot, he killed 270 people, and has been granted the right to freedom on 'compassionate' grounds, what compassion did he show to his victims? When you infringe on the rights of others, you then relenquish your rights. Simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) More info has recently come out about an innocent man put to death in (surprise, surprise) Texas. Long version http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?currentPage=1 Short version http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/opinion/01herbert.html?_r=1&em TL;DR version: Willingham, an unemployed twenty-three year old man in a small town in Texas, loses his home and his three infant daughters to a fire. Unscientific arson investigators decide Willingham burned down his house to kill his daughters so he can drink beer and play darts. Psychopathic psychiatrists say Willingham is a psycho without ever examining him. An ambitious prosecutor goes for the death sentence. Willingham's small-town lawyer is convinced of his client's guilt and never tries too hard. A mentally disturbed jailhouse snitch testifies against Willingham, cementing the case. Willingham is sentenced to death. All this happens in the early 90s. In 2004, a few weeks before the execution, a leading expert on explosives examines the case's evidence and opines that the evidence is all bull. The people who handle clemency never read the expert's report on the Willingham case (or read and disregard it). On February 17, 2004, Willingham recieves a lethal injection and dies. Edited September 6, 2009 by BlueStar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
