Final Fantasy VIII: Remembering the Orphan

[Nolan]

FFVI had the largest playable cast of any FF game and all of the characters (aside from secret/special ones) were fleshed out with great backstories. Much more so than other side characters.

 

The story was presented in a fantastic way with multiple arcs, plus it was steampunk.

 

Kefka is also a wonderful villain, rather than just being a cliched "I'm really powerful and thus have decided to end this world" guy he's not even the bigbad in the beginning, he's just a Psychotic Mage in the emipres army. He's hardly even powerful, and during the first part of the game, it's the empire/emperor that is considered bad.

 

That's kinda why I liked the more political story of XII as opposed to VII-X.

[Sheikah]

Yeah...this is out now. £7.99 on the PSN Store. I recommend it to anyone.

[Happenstance]

I'll be getting it but not for a couple of months, way too many games coming out lately

[Jon]

I'll be getting it but not for a couple of months, way too many games coming out lately

 

Snap. I didn't really give it a fair crack all those years ago but it will have to wait as you said, too many good games coming out over the next few months.

 

 

I'll need to dust of my card hustling skills.

[Nolan]

Hmmm. Anyone read this theory yet?

http://squallsdead.com/

 

Basically they theorize that Squall dies at the end of disc 1 (cause ya know....impalement by ice does that) followed by discs 2-4 being his last few seconds of life going batshit crazy with hallucinations. I like this theory, but it still doesn't make the game not shit.

[darksnowman]

Hmmm. Anyone read this theory yet?

http://squallsdead.com/

 

Basically they theorize that Squall dies at the end of disc 1 (cause ya know....impalement by ice does that) followed by discs 2-4 being his last few seconds of life going batshit crazy with hallucinations. I like this theory, but it still doesn't make the game not shit.

 

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say on it but I just can't believe its true. I love these kind of storylines but I'm sure the game would have revealed Squall's death in an obvious way rather than it to be discovered by fans now, ten years later.

[chairdriver]

I love that theory.

 

It makes so much sense - everything is normal in the first disc, and then things go really fucking weird.

 

However, if that was the case, the writers are quite bad - I'd try and keep everything as normal as possible in the first disc - no GFs, limited magic, "normal" monsters (beasts more than monsters) - with alot of plausible things unexplained, then go absolutely wild with crazy-ass explanations to things in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th discs.

 

I like the explanation of the Laguna dreams they'd all been getting - most probable explanation was that it was Edea trying to sabotage their assassination attempt - but it was actually the doing of a mutant girl (who is actually Squall's sister) who projected them into the past life of Squall's dad - who coincidentally was in love with Riona's mother, and is now the ruler of a continent-big secret ultra-futuristic city - for an unclear reason.

 

The writers should have more stuff like that. Really ludicrous explanations to things that could have elsewise been explained easily.

[Nolan]

I like the theory as well and agree it helps the plot make more sense, but I agree with darksnowman that it's unlikely what Square was aiming for. It's far to obtuse to reach that conclusion through normal playing.

[Aimless]

The theory is both interesting and a load of cobblers. They're reading far too much into a translated text, and their basic seems to be that, "the game isn't very realistic after disc 1". The game is fantastical right from the off, so that doesn't strike me as a particularly compelling argument.

 

FFVIII's plot does make sense, it's just really badly explained.

[STOOPIDDITTIES]

My friend recently got this done.

 

 

I think it's a pretty great tattoo, whether you like the game or not.

[killer kirby]

My friend recently got this done.

 

 

Man that's crazy, last thing I ever want is a tattoo based off a video game, even a kirby tattoo

 

I was thinking of bumping this thread too show what I have seen online that I find amusing.

 

First off...SQUALL DIES!!!!

PROOF

http://squallsdead.com/

 

aaaaand some hardcore fans on 4chan making the game sound good.

 

Rinoa was truly the true main bad guy, and she gets what she wants and beats the main characters.

http://i41.tinypic.com/312aa1d.jpg' alt='312aa1d.jpg'>

 

and the truth about the so called love story of Squall and Rinoa

 

Have fun ^_^

[Nolan]

Squall's dead has been posted (by me in fact) and it's speculation rather than proof.

 

Considering that the story isn't understood and 11 years later people are still trying to make sense of it, I wonder how anyone can call it good. Obtuse ramblings generally do not make for a good story.

[Sheikah]

Oh, right, the story can't be good because it's not clear cut enough for thickos to digest. Just because it's not black and white, doesn't mean it isn't good.

 

The fact people are still thinking about what the story means over a decade on clearly shows that the story was 10 times better than in any game being produced these days.

[Nolan]

I never said it needed to be black and white, I said it's too obtuse.

 

There's a difference between convoluted beyond understanding, and convoluted within...reason(?). The best example I can think of is MGS, the story is plain insane, but people make sense of it relatively easily. Is the same said about FF VIII? Has anyone made sense of the story?

[Sheikah]

I never said it needed to be black and white, I said it's too obtuse.

 

There's a difference between convoluted beyond understanding, and convoluted within...reason(?). The best example I can think of is MGS, the story is plain insane, but people make sense of it relatively easily. Is the same said about FF VIII? Has anyone made sense of the story?

Yes, lots of people. But not you.

[Nolan]

Yes, lots of people. But not you.

 

Not me and many many others as well.

[Sheikah]

Not me and many many others as well.

I think if you have difficulty understanding the story of a Final Fantasy game then this is the least of your problems.

[Nolan]

Why do you take this so personally? You attack anyone who doesn't have glorious praise about FF VIII and XIII in such a way that you remind me of Choze.

[McMad]

Final Fantasy VIII's story is one of the worst in the series. The game itself is alright but the narrative/characters/pacing/romance are, for most part, rubbish.

 

I wish S-E would take a step backwards during game development every now and then and ask themselves; 'does this plot actually make any goddamn sense?'

 

The fact that most of the context of Final Fantasy XIII was provided within the datalogs is atrocious. It seems like the developers have a hard enough time telling a story - let alone writing a decent one.

[Sheikah]

Why do you take this so personally? You attack anyone who doesn't have glorious praise about FF VIII and XIII in such a way that you remind me of Choze.

I don't take it personally. To be honest, you seem to be coming across on these forums as a deliberately contradictory character; one person says something, and you'll immediately argue the opposite.

 

For example:

 

Except for the ones that started in 3D.

 

Are you saying steel can be evolved so it doesn't rust? Amazing, I think we should call it Stainless Steel.

 

That's not a monkey, it's a gorilla.

 

However, in Halo those variables can be consistent and fights will still vary considerably compared to other games even if the variables change in other games.

 

That's not true, he talks about games he actually likes at times, and some of his reviews suggest he ultimately enjoyed the game. NMH comes to mind as does Prototype and Saints Row 2.

 

 

Now I'm not sure if you're deliberately trying to be a jerk, but it's sure coming across that way to me. Particularly as you often seem to respond negatively towards my posts or refute the core of what I'm saying.

 

The problem here is that you don't have any substance to your argument. You complain about the plot being difficult to interpret, yet provide no reasoning whatsoever. Feel free to come up with something now.

 

The fact is, the story is quite clear. It's the fault of certain individuals for coming up with loopy theories beyond what is logically sound; Squall dying (despite being there during the ending, in what is clearly meant to be a happy ending by the script writer rather than some insane mental trip of a person on the verge of death), or Rinoa = Ultimecia (again, the people pushing this make me think of the comic book guy from the Simpsons).

 

So...yeah. If you had problems understanding the story then I'm sorry for you. I get how people don't like it...but not understand it? No.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Sheikah

[McMad]

Here's what I mean when I say VIII was poorly written:

 

The plot lacks structure. From Disc 1 to Disc 4 there is no over-riding quest for Squall and his comrades. The story telling is much more episodic rather than being a whole, coherent piece of work. The game constantly throws new allies and adversaries at you (Edea is the primary antagonist for the first two discs, and the joins your party in Disc 3) instead of clearly establishing two opposing forces and creating a convincing fictional world. Throw in some silly plot twists which add nothing to the story and time-travel and you have a very messy plot. VII in contrast establishes Shinra and Sephiroth as the primary antagonists very early on and the main story can be either be seen as a group of eco-warriors fighting for the survival of their planet or one man's quest for revenge.

 

Many video-game plots lack structure though. And sometimes a strong cast of characters can save a poorly structured plot. It worked for me and Final Fantasy IX. The problem is that the only developed character in VIII is Squall. Squall starts the game as a cold loner - emotionally scarred by the abandonment he suffered as child - but through the power of love he is able to begin trusting others once again and finds happiness. The boy becomes a man. The other characters seem like card-board cut-outs in comparison. In fact the majority of the main party except for Squall and Rinoa become irrelevant after Disc 2. Much of the main cast lack back stories, development and even motives. (apart from the fact that they're all on the payroll) They don't share interesting dialogue with one another and many players often find VIII's cast simply un-likeable. In fact Laguna and his trio were far more charming, in my opinion, than Squall and his party.

 

Then there are the awkward set-pieces such as the train mission that defies physics and logic. The fact that Irvine would have been aiming at the back of Edea's float during the assassination mission. Time compression. And I'll let you lot decide whether the dual narratives complemented each other or not.

 

I also find that the game also lacks themes apart from love and growing-up. VII was crammed full of themes: Life, Death, Mothers, Nature, Industrialisation, Identity and I'm sure there are others I've missed. In comparison there never feels like there's much point to VIII's story.

 

I don't write VIII off because of the story. I just believe that it lets the rest of the game down. I've said it before: I love the Junction System and the game's style.

 

Can't be bothered to write another argument.

[Sheikah]

I have no idea why you're posting that. His argument is that he didn't understand it / it doesn't make sense (his exact words were 'convoluted beyond understanding'), not that it was poorly written (although given the chance, I'm sure he'd have a nice argue about that too). It does make sense. I know some people don't like it (I'm clearly not one of them, among many other since it's often regarded as hit or miss), but it makes sense.

 

No offence intended, but your interpretation of why you don't like the game doesn't mean it was poorly designed. Many people enjoy the actual content of the story and the characters within.

[Nolan]

I tend to just call it as I see it(A Gorilla is not a monkey, true fact), which can tend to rub people the wrong way. Even when I'm just joking.

 

In all honesty, it's been too long since playing for me to be able to pinpoint anything in particular. I'm likely being rather unfair since when I did last play I was rather young and ignorant.

 

I'll even quote myself from this very thread:

To be honest, the first time I played the game I couldn't care about the characters, and hardly noticed the development and change. While I can see these things now, I still don't particularly like the characters and do not like the game.

 

 

Oh, and I always figured that convoluted beyond understanding and poorly written went hand in hand....unless convoluted is the goal.

[Sheikah]

So if you were young and more ignorant, I don't doubt you found it harder to understand.

 

The truth is, some people don't like the concepts of time compression or that Ultemicia only appears at the end of the game. But really...it's just all fantasy and time compression was one way of explaining how someone from the future was exerting influence on the past. And Ultemicia was there all along, as a puppetmaster.

 

Either way, it's fair enough if some people didn't like it. Most people wanted a FFVII mark 2, and were left disappointed. It's great if you treat it as something different, and don't expect solid characters throughout. In my opinion, the three or four solid in-game characters is more than enough for the game that it is.

[chairdriver]

FFVIII has my favourite story of all the Final Fantasys.