Won't someone love the baby?

[Shorty]

I was the one that brought up adoption, and my two end options would be adoption, or ending the relationship. Obviously the adoption part is only an option if the lady was up for it.

 

Everyone's conclusions here are based on the assumption that the partner goes along with it.

Actually I was talking about the other man!

[Kirkatronics]

I have a question, what if it is the males baby and the male doesnt want it.

Would he still have to pay child support if the female decides to keep it?

[Iun]

I have a question, what if it is the males baby and the male doesnt want it.

Would he still have to pay child support if the female decides to keep it?

 

Sadly, this is where the imbalance of the system comes in.

 

As Bluey rightly said, the lady has the choice of having a baby or not having a baby, as it is her body, no-one has the right to make the decision for her. Unless she is deemed mentally incompetant to make that decision, or there is a risk to mother/child. Ultimately, the child is from her, it's not the man that has to carry the child to term.

 

HOWEVER: the lady currently has the right to decide the future of the man with her pregnancy as well, which is inherently unbalanced. There is the old argument "it takes two to tango" but what if one of you wants to stop dancing? The lady can effectively force the father to maintain a child that he is either emotionally, physically or mentally unprepared for. That's her choice too.

 

I know a girl with hippy-ish sensibilities - ultra pro-life, almost a Jain in terms of what she would not eat. She became pregnant due to her not bothering to take her birth control. She actively wanted a baby, her boyfriend did not. Now her ex-boyfriend is locked into a role he did not choose. It was his life, and she made the decision on his future. There's no "Oh, but she deceived him" or "But she made the choice without consulting him" it's simply a case of "there's a baby now, you have to deal with it."

 

But what about the reverse? A man is desperate for a baby, but his wife/girlfriend aborts? Again, it is her body, but she is making the decision for two, potentially three people.

 

This is a tough issue, and one that it's difficult to make a fair call on. I'm pro-choice, but I think that should work both ways.

 

True, there are a lot of itinerant men out there who are irresponsible and need to "man up" as it were. But there are also those who are not ready for that due to personal or wider circumstances, and when their future is decided for them by another individual, how can anyone consider that fair?

 

Oh and in answer, Jav. Get rid of the girl who cheated. No-one who deceives like that would ever be trustworthy again, even if they lived a model life. Infidelity is the worst, most fundamentally unforgiveable sin in a relationship.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Iun

[Kirkatronics]

Sadly, this is where the imbalance of the system comes in.

 

As Bluey rightly said, the lady has the choice of having a baby or not having a baby, as it is her body, no-one has the right to make the decision for her. Unless she is deemed mentally incompetant to make that decision, or there is a risk to mother/child. Ultimately, the child is from her, it's not the man that has to carry the child to term.

 

HOWEVER: the lady currently has the right to decide the future of the man with her pregnancy as well, which is inherently unbalanced. There is the old argument "it takes two to tango" but what if one of you wants to stop dancing? The lady can effectively force the father to maintain a child that he is either emotionally, physically or mentally unprepared for. That's her choice too.

 

I know a girl with hippy-ish sensibilities - ultra pro-life, almost a Jain in terms of what she would not eat. She became pregnant due to her not bothering to take her birth control. She actively wanted a baby, her boyfriend did not. Now her ex-boyfriend is locked into a role he did not choose. It was his life, and she made the decision on his future. There's no "Oh, but she deceived him" or "But she made the choice without consulting him" it's simply a case of "there's a baby now, you have to deal with it."

 

But what about the reverse? A man is desperate for a baby, but his wife/girlfriend aborts? Again, it is her body, but she is making the decision for two, potentially three people.

 

This is a tough issue, and one that it's difficult to make a fair call on. I'm pro-choice, but I think that should work both ways.

 

True, there are a lot of itinerant men out there who are irresponsible and need to "man up" as it were. But there are also those who are not ready for that due to personal or wider circumstances, and when their future is decided for them by another individual, how can anyone consider that fair?

 

Oh and in answer, Jav. Get rid of the girl who cheated. No-one who deceives like that would ever be trustworthy again, even if they lived a model life. Infidelity is the worst, most fundamentally unforgiveable sin in a relationship.

I thought as much, i cant really see how it can be balanced.

If the man doesnt want it, he shouldnt really have to pay.

That would in turn add a lot more problems, or what if he changed his mind?

How would it be dealt with then?

[Jav_NE]

I dont think it can. My initial thought would be to take these cases and note both parties opinions at time of conception. That way it can be recorded that the male is against the baby at a time when it can be 'handled'. So if the woman decides to keep it, he has that evidence and the right to deny support.

 

As for the man wanting the baby and the woman not, that one is beyond a solution.

[Sheikah]

I dont think it can. My initial thought would be to take these cases and note both parties opinions at time of conception. That way it can be recorded that the male is against the baby at a time when it can be 'handled'. So if the woman decides to keep it, he has that evidence and the right to deny support.

But then every chav wanker in the country would use that excuse to get out of it and be able to live completely free of consequence, screwing every teenage Vicky Pollard in the country without fear.

 

There's no solution to this that is equally fair to both sides.

[EEVILMURRAY]

But then every chav wanker in the country would use that excuse to get out of it and be able to live completely free of consequence, screwing every teenage Vicky Pollard in the country without fear.

And they shall call it: "The White Lightning Precedent"

 

Maybe Woodpecker.

[Iun]

But then every chav wanker in the country would use that excuse to get out of it and be able to live completely free of consequence, screwing every teenage Vicky Pollard in the country without fear.

 

Anyone who has sex with Matt Lucas in a wig and jogging suit deserves whatever consequences they get.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Anyone who has sex with Matt Lucas in a wig and jogging suit deserves whatever consequences they get.

Corrected.

[Jav_NE]

But then every chav wanker in the country would use that excuse to get out of it and be able to live completely free of consequence, screwing every teenage Vicky Pollard in the country without fear.

 

There's no solution to this that is equally fair to both sides.

 

True. But its their fault for sleeping with such a dickhead in the first place, and their choice to keep the baby.

 

Who knows. The courts have to decide.

[bluey]

Different scenario. If they had worn protection but still conceived, (a) what rights would a father have? (b) Should he have a decision as to whether or not to abort the child? (3) Should he be forced to pay child support? (d) If he doesn't want it aborted, should the woman be allowed to abort it?

 

a. same rights as if they'd been trying for a baby - the courts don't bother differentiating between planned pregnancies and mistaaaakes.

 

b. no way.

again, aside from the one iun and jamba have no pointed out to me - if the woman was mentally incapable - can't think of a scenario where the guy would have more than a "b-b-but... pleeease?!!" swing on the outcome of the woman's decision. it's her life and her body. and while it may be your baby too, you got plenty more sperm where that came from.

 

3. yes way!

it's a well known fact that the only 100% sure-fire way of NOT getting a girl pregnant is NOT to have sex with her.

"but she said she was on the pill/injection!" - doy! women are idiots! the lie/forget/even the pill/injection isn't 100% guaranteed to be effective.

it's like "you break it - you buy it." only..

you knock it up - you pay it child support.

 

.....then again guys, you probably dont need to worry TOO much about this given the sorry state of the CSA in the UK.

 

d. again, yep. see point b. unless you ask REALLY nicely O_o

it'd suck for the guy, but if i were pregnant and didn't want to be - there wouldnt be a lot you could do to convince me to go through pregnancy and childbirth when i'm not completely emotionally (and financially...*sigh*) ready for it.

 

HOWEVER: the lady currently has the right to decide the future of the man with her pregnancy as well, which is inherently unbalanced. There is the old argument "it takes two to tango" but what if one of you wants to stop dancing? The lady can effectively force the father to maintain a child that he is either emotionally, physically or mentally unprepared for. That's her choice too.

 

all a mother can do when a father doesnt want to be involved in the child's upbringing is force them to financially maintain the child.

my father didnt wanna know me after he and mum split up - that didnt mean he could let her deal with all my food, clothing, educational costs alone.

they needn't emotionally or mentally invest in the child, and physically all they might need to go is re-mortgage the house and get a second job.

but that's life! you make a mistake, unfortunately you pay for it.

 

and i agree, in some cases, that's REALLY unfair to the guy... for example (and maybe i've been watching too much jeremy kyle here ~) if the girl is a crazy and intentionally lies about being on the pill to qualify for gordon brown's free house & push chair deal.

that'd really suck for the guy... but part from choosing who you sleep with wisely and being responsible for your own protection (maybe i'm a square but even if a girl told me she was on the pill i'd still be wearing something O_o where HAS she been?!)

[Kirkatronics]

a. same rights as if they'd been trying for a baby - the courts don't bother differentiating between planned pregnancies and mistaaaakes.

 

b. no way.

again, aside from the one iun and jamba have no pointed out to me - if the woman was mentally incapable - can't think of a scenario where the guy would have more than a "b-b-but... pleeease?!!" swing on the outcome of the woman's decision. it's her life and her body. and while it may be your baby too, you got plenty more sperm where that came from.

 

3. yes way!

it's a well known fact that the only 100% sure-fire way of NOT getting a girl pregnant is NOT to have sex with her.

"but she said she was on the pill/injection!" - doy! women are idiots! the lie/forget/even the pill/injection isn't 100% guaranteed to be effective.

it's like "you break it - you buy it." only..

you knock it up - you pay it child support.

 

.....then again guys, you probably dont need to worry TOO much about this given the sorry state of the CSA in the UK.

 

d. again, yep. see point b. unless you ask REALLY nicely O_o

it'd suck for the guy, but if i were pregnant and didn't want to be - there wouldnt be a lot you could do to convince me to go through pregnancy and childbirth when i'm not completely emotionally (and financially...*sigh*) ready for it.

 

 

 

all a mother can do when a father doesnt want to be involved in the child's upbringing is force them to financially maintain the child.

my father didnt wanna know me after he and mum split up - that didnt mean he could let her deal with all my food, clothing, educational costs alone.

they needn't emotionally or mentally invest in the child, and physically all they might need to go is re-mortgage the house and get a second job.

but that's life! you make a mistake, unfortunately you pay for it.

 

and i agree, in some cases, that's REALLY unfair to the guy... for example (and maybe i've been watching too much jeremy kyle here ~) if the girl is a crazy and intentionally lies about being on the pill to qualify for gordon brown's free house & push chair deal.

that'd really suck for the guy... but part from choosing who you sleep with wisely and being responsible for your own protection (maybe i'm a square but even if a girl told me she was on the pill i'd still be wearing something O_o where HAS she been?!)

Isnt it different if the child is a mistake, the male says he doesnt really want it, but the female does.

Why should the male have to pay for it?

[Sheikah]

Isnt it different if the child is a mistake, the male says he doesnt really want it, but the female does.

Why should the male have to pay for it?

Because if he doesn't, there's no consequence to the guy sleeping around (chavs inparticular). Whereas with women, they can get pregnant. And abortion is often an ordeal that they would not wish to go through, and they may even believe the unborn child has a right to be born.

 

Remember: sexual intercourse is designed for producing children. It's just us humans and certain other species such as the dolphin that decided to use it for pleasure as well. Many men have an 'invincible' syndrome (typical of footballers), whereby they stroll through life thinking they are the freaking masters of everything; untouchable. I quite like that there is something to keep the kind of guy typically on the receiving end of such pregnancy knock-up dilemmas (Jeremy Kyle ahoy) being spit-roasted by a giant government cock.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Sheikah

[RoadKill]

D. Kill myself.

 

Nah, if there was a kid involved as well as the cheating I would very likely dump.

 

E. Kill her

[jayseven]

So if it is ultimately the woman's choice because it is her body that changes for 9 months, then surely contraception should ultimately be her responsibility too? :P

[Eenuh]

So if it is ultimately the woman's choice because it is her body that changes for 9 months, then surely contraception should ultimately be her responsibility too? :P

 

It should be both people's responsibility yeah. Though some men seem to think they don't really need to use a condom when she is on the pill... though the pill might not always be reliable either.

I think the effort should come from both sides. If the girl has to spend money on contraceptives, so should the guy.

[bluey]

If the girl has to spend money on contraceptives, so should the guy.

but they are freeeeeeeeeeeee!!

 

hurah for the NHS! *waves tiny flag with raining_again's face on it*

[Eenuh]

but they are freeeeeeeeeeeee!!

 

hurah for the NHS! *waves tiny flag with raining_again's face on it*

 

What is free? The pill?

I think over here it's only until a certain age, or at least it's a bit cheaper (think until 21 or something). And since I'm 24 I have to pay full price. =P

[bluey]

What is free? The pill?

I think over here it's only until a certain age, or at least it's a bit cheaper (think until 21 or something). And since I'm 24 I have to pay full price. =P

all contraception is free (besides like, vasectomies...?!) either from a doctor or from a family planning clinic.

[Eenuh]

all contraception is free (besides like, vasectomies...?!) either from a doctor or from a family planning clinic.

 

Forever and ever? =O

[Raining_again]

Forever and ever? =O

 

and ever!

 

I do love family planniiiinnnng!

 

(p.s more people should be visiting family planning)

 

there are even walk in clinics!

 

I got an implant inserted for freee.

[Eenuh]

I don't think we have that sorta stuff here, like family planning... at least I've never heard of it. Then again the UK has higher teen pregnancy rates so I guess it is needed there or something...

[Raining_again]

I don't think we have that sorta stuff here, like family planning... at least I've never heard of it. Then again the UK has higher teen pregnancy rates so I guess it is needed there or something...

 

It's so bad because NOBODY ever goes.

 

I know our local clinics are shamefully empty. (we get the data sheets in our office)

 

AND CONDOMS ARE FREE!! you would think that would be an encouragement. ¬_¬

[bluey]

I don't think we have that sorta stuff here, like family planning... at least I've never heard of it. Then again the UK has higher teen pregnancy rates so I guess it is needed there or something...

 

owch, eenuh

belgium 1 - 0 england.

 

check your local hospital...?

[Eenuh]

owch, eenuh

belgium 1 - 0 england.

 

check your local hospital...?

 

Nah, won't be free either. Over here you pay for it at the pharmacy (you need a prescription from the doctor first by the way), and then health care pays part of it back afterwards, just not all of it.