The Lillster Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 To be honest. I count one "new" game there. As awesome as Brawl was, it was Melee with polish and a few new features... And a massively broken online component. Animal Crossing was lazy as hell. Its the SAME game we've had for the last 4 iterations with a few new features each release. Why aren't they ambitious? I don't want to give Tom Nook my bells anymore... or collect fossils, again. Mario Kart Wii is fantastic. Sure the AI is a little cheap, but its probably the best MK since MK64. I'll put it this way. My favourite game of the last decade is Mario Galaxy. I fucking LOVE that game. Why isn't there more like this on the Wii? It looks beautiful, it sounded astounding, the level design was perfect and the mechanics were awesome! Why not more like this? As Iwata said, development time for these 'deluxe' type games, take pretty much double the development time of the casual, touch generations type games. If you look back at the N64 and GCN generations, you would know that the big titles take time to come out. The only reason why the GCN and N64 eras seem better, was because of the userbase. If a developer was to put a casual game on the n64 or gcn, it would have likely have failed. Therefore devs didn't bother with it. Now that Nintendo is market leader with both the DS and the Wii, the devs and publishers don't mind taking the risk. Unfortunatly for traditional Wii gamers, the devs only see wii as a 'secondary' system. Luckily some can afford an Xbox or PS3, for the high-quality titles. For those that can't, all they can do is hope that they don't have to wait too long for the next big game.
Ren of Heavens Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I'm not saying the Gamecube was bad, but I think many are looking back on it with rose-tinted glasses. I would say there was about just as much complaining by the hardcore back then: You had the underwhelming launch with no killer Mario game as expected, just Luigi's Mansion og Wave Race: Blue Storm from Nintendo. When the Mario game finally arrived it was considered a big disappointment among hardcore fans. Rare being sold off to Microsoft caused hysteria. Then you had all the European delays. The console itself being released six months after America, Metroid Prime being delayed from November to March making Star Fox Adventures the big holiday 2002 title in Europe and the two year Animal Crossing delay. All the GC/GBA connectivity gimmicks. The annualy fairly awful Mario Party games and so on...
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 As Iwata said, development time for these 'deluxe' type games, take pretty much double the development time of the casual, touch generations type games. Indeed. Let's take Excitebots as a example. Monster Games has been working on it for more than 24 months, and they even had engine / basic concept to recycle.
Nicktendo Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Throwing money randonmly and bribing development to get exclusives is hardly innovative. It is archaic, expensive, and proven to have no effect on console performance, although butthurt fanboys want to think otherwise. They think that pissing 6 billion dollars a'la Sony into air is innovative and sustainable. That Nintendo has been able to create strategy where its competition doesn't practically matter, that is innovative. With few well placed maneuvers, they have turned market upside down, and made people who thought they knew the market look and act like fools. Nintendo's strategy is already used as a case in better universities, and it will be studied for years to come. Uhm, This. Excellent point. The Wii has been out 2 years. It has had 4 BLOCKBUSTER games from Nintendo, all of which have been in development for 2+ years, some longer (Smash Bros, Galaxy, Zelda, Prime 3). Then there's the likes of Mario Kart and Animal Crossing ('bridge' titles) which may seem a little 'cheap' but still provide a lot of quality gaming time. And of course your casual hits, Wii Music, Fit and Sports which are all very good 'games' . Now will someone please tell me when, in the first 2 years of a home console Nintendo has released this many quality games, let alone 4 blockbusters. Everyone needs to stop complaining. Original IP's, resurrections of 'dead franchises' (Punch Out/Sin and Punishment, Kid Icarus?), Sequals to Zelda, Pikmin et al are all almost guarenteed to be in development. The 2nd party support is consistantly good, if a little under appreciated by Nintendo themselves and there is a 3rd Party library already out which is very respectable (Godfather, NMH, Zack and Wiki, HotD:OK, need I go on?). And then you've got a 3rd party 2009 line-up that will knock the socks off the Cube and N64's entire 3rd party library. Capping it all off; Wii motionplus, anyone? Take a look at the developer diary videos on IGN from EA. Stop complaining. Start gaming.
The Lillster Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I'm not saying the Gamecube was bad, but I think many are looking back on it with rose-tinted glasses. I would say there was about just as much complaining by the hardcore back then: You had the underwhelming launch with no killer Mario game as expected, just Luigi's Mansion og Wave Race: Blue Storm from Nintendo. When the Mario game finally arrived it was considered a big disappointment among hardcore fans. Rare being sold off to Microsoft caused hysteria. Then you had all the European delays. The console itself being released six months after America, Metroid Prime being delayed from November to March making Star Fox Adventures the big holiday 2002 title in Europe and the two year Animal Crossing delay. All the GC/GBA connectivity gimmicks. The annualy fairly awful Mario Party games and so on... I pretty much agree 100%. I think the problem is, some people only really get excited about new games. If there isn't any new games that appeal to them, then they lose interest in that particular system. But I bet theres quite a few games already released that those particular people would enjoy, but because theres so much negative feedback from random people on forums and magazines, people don't bother to look.
Grazza Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Yeah, it's funny how easily people forget. The latter half of the Gamecube era was awful. There were basically no triple-A Nintendo games the last two years prior to Wii. Nintendo games released in the US between November 19, 2004 - November 19, 2006 (Wii launch): Battalion Wars Chibi-Robo! Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix Donkey Kong Jungle Beat Donkey Konga 2 Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance Geist Mario Party 6 Mario Party 7 Mario Superstar Baseball Odama Pokemon XD Star Fox: Assault Super Mario Strikers The massive difference, I feel, was that the GameCube had many of the multi-format games. My big games for Christmas 2005 were Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (excellent) and Ultimate Spider-Man. It may not have helped Nintendo, but it did make a big difference to how much I enjoyed the machine. Plus, that list is not that bad - there is not a AAA in it, but we were looking forward to Twilight Princess - it was an exciting time. The GameCube had at least five "mega" games - Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Pikmin 2 and Twilight Princess, whereas the Wii only has Mario Galaxy and maybe Metroid Prime 3 so far. They really need to give us Zelda and something like Kid Icarus before they can say there are a similar amount of mega games.
Shino Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 You have freaking punch that's coming in MAY! That's a month and a half from now and it was announced in October! That's one high profile game that no giving credit because there wasn't enough time to hype, which is basically what the hardcore media e game live for.
The Lillster Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 They really need to give us Zelda and something like Kid Icarus before they can say there are a similar amount of mega games. For that to happen these 'mega' games need to sell at least the same or more than the 'mega' games being released on the HD machines. Obviously something like Madworld isn't going to appeal to the extended, non-gamer audiance. Basicly it's not going to sell as well as somthing like Wii fit or Mario & Sonic. But if there is an audiance for these adult oriented type games (and I believe there is) we should be seeing more dedication from developers for these types of experiances. I'm talking about 3rd party and Nintendo btw.
Ren of Heavens Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) The GameCube had at least five "mega" games - Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Pikmin 2 and Twilight Princess, whereas the Wii only has Mario Galaxy and maybe Metroid Prime 3 so far. They really need to give us Zelda and something like Kid Icarus before they can say there are a similar amount of mega games. Then you count TP as a GC-only title. If you look at the first two years of GC only Sunshine and Metroid Prime had been released of these "mega" games. I'm really not that worried. Sin & Punishment 2 will be released later this year. We know Pikmin 3 is in development, we know a new Zelda is in development, a Super Mario platformer is in the works, Retro is working on their next big thing, a new Kirby is on its way, Monolith software, known for their RPGs, is working on something unknown, Intelligent Systems has not released a new Wii games since Paper Mario and Fire Emblem, NST is working on an untitled Wii game... Edited March 12, 2009 by Ren of Heavens
darkjak Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) For that to happen these 'mega' games need to sell at least the same or more than the 'mega' games being released on the HD machines. Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies. Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it. Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX. Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them? Edited March 12, 2009 by darkjak
jammy2211 Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies. Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it. Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX. Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them? Killzone 2 doesn't need to sell anywhere near that much to break even . But er, why don't they make them? Cause they tried doing that, for about a decade, and Sony kicked their arses.
Jonnas Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies. Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it. Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX. Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them? So...cash=quality? Dude, that's very far from the truth. A perfectly good game can be made with a low budget, and a high-cost game can end up crappy. And do you really think they can easily surpass a good franchise that spent several games refining its formula? That's like saying the new TMNT fighting game could surpass Tekken, Street Fighter or Smash Bros, just because there's effort going into it. And seriously, the only reason the Wii has three "AAA games" it's because those three had tons of hype going into the launch. The games that didn't have that kind of hype are rarely mentioned, despite being as much deserving.
Tellyn Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 To be fair, most of the people complaining here probably haven't touched WiiWare or several third-party gems lurking on the Wii.
Ren of Heavens Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Yeah, those who hasn't tried out games such as World of Goo, MaBoShi, Bomberman Blast, Zack & Wiki, Boom Blox and Strong Bad has nothing to complain about.
mcj metroid Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Actually, no. HD games need to sell a lot more than any Wii game because of the high development costs. If I remember correctly, for Killzone 2 to BREAK EVEN it needs to sell a fair bit over six milion copies. Nintendo have cash hanging out their butt, but they don't seem to know what to do with it. Why not create a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, a racer that will kick Gran Turismo and Forza in the nuts, an Excitebike that will make it seem that the competition had never existed, a 1080 that will wipe the floor with SSX. Nintendo have the cash, the know how and a console that allows them to make kick ass games with fairly small ammounts of cash, and make money despite mediocre sales. Really, what's stopping them? something like gran turismo is something other console will always do better and not the type of game that would sell well or benefit on the wii.. Sure it would be nice to have a bit of everything but realstic games have always taken a back seat on nintendo hardware. Stick to what they're good at.
Pookiablo Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 I just don't think Nintendo, or any game company for that matter pump out games of amazing quality anymore. Super Mario Galaxy was the only exception. Most games are just generic and they either boast fancy graphics or some overloved IP that helps them to sell. Take a look at Brawl for example - it's basically Melee with a few extra modes and a very, very badly made online mode. That's not enough of an advancement if you ask me. At least make the game work properly. The Gamecube was "saddening" because all it tried to do was what the N64 did but with flashier graphics and sound. There's very little "new" in these games. Sure, N64 took the massive leap into proper 3D Nintendo gaming and therefore it might be a bit unfair for me to say that I expected something similar with the Cube, but I just found the general quality and polish of most Gamecube games to be lacking compared to such incredible N64 titles like Perfect Dark. Even today that game defines gaming better than most of the shite we're seeing.
Grazza Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 For that to happen these 'mega' games need to sell at least the same or more than the 'mega' games being released on the HD machines. I disagree with that, because it's Nintendo's duty to kit the machine out with a reasonable amount of top class games in the first place, regardless of sales. Once there is a decent line-up of Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, Pikmin, Metroid etc, there is enough reason to buy the machine (a daft comment, I know, as it's mega successful!) Then you count TP as a GC-only title. If you look at the first two years of GC only Sunshine and Metroid Prime had been released of these "mega" games. Well, I do see it as a GameCube game, even though I have both versions. I just can't see it as a system seller for the Wii, not to those who have followed Nintendo for many years. After all, we spent 2004, 2005 and 2006 awaiting it as it was designed on the 'Cube. It's just like Resident Evil 4 and Okami - I've got no complaints about them, but I can't see them as system sellers for the Wii when they were on older consoles. I know Twilight Princess is not strictly a "port", but it's close enough. I'm really not that worried. Sin & Punishment 2 will be released later this year. We know Pikmin 3 is in development, we know a new Zelda is in development, a Super Mario platformer is in the works, Retro is working on their next big thing, a new Kirby is on its way, Monolith software, known for their RPGs, is working on something unknown, Intelligent Systems has not released a new Wii games since Paper Mario and Fire Emblem, NST is working on an untitled Wii game... I think things are looking quite rosy. They'll probably do enough, but it's not certain yet. Zelda's all I need anyway. I honestly don't think there'll be another Mario platformer on the Wii - I think that team is working on Pikmin 3 instead, but that's good in itself.
Ren of Heavens Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 By the way, just got Edge #200 with a new top 100 games list. Two N64 games, OoT (1) and Mario 64 (2), tops the list. RE4 is 4. Mario Galaxy at 8. First Nintendo-made GC game is Wind Waker at 23.
Emasher Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Probably the reason so many N64 games were so good was because they were the first of their kind in 3D. If Twilight princess with worse graphics had been released instead of OoT, and OoT had been released instead of TP with better graphics, we would be praising TP now, not OoT. In regards to EAD Tokyo. Nintendo never said they were working on a Mario game, they just said the team that did Mario galaxy was making a new game. So they probably are the team that is working on Pikmin 3. I have this odd feeling that there was a mistake in Reggie's speech at E3 and he was supposed to say "The team that made Mario Galaxy is working on a new Pikmin game" Hence why Shingsy mentioned it at that little demo event. I doubt we're going to see another Main Series Mario game on the Wii.
Ren of Heavens Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 It depends on how long this generation will last. I have a feeling it will be longer than the usual 5 years. I don't think we'll see a new Ninty console until 2012 at the earliest. Maybe 2013 or even 2014.
Emasher Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I'm thinking it gets talked about a lot next year, gets revealed the next year, and comes out the following year (The next console, not a new Mario game). The Wii is already starting the slow down a bit.
darksnowman Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Did Miyamoto himself not say he would like to make a successor to Galaxy on the Wii?
Emasher Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Did Miyamoto himself not say he would like to make a successor to Galaxy on the Wii? By the time they get it made though, even if they already started working on it, I think it'll probably just get pushed to the new console.
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 By the time they get it made though, even if they already started working on it, I think it'll probably just get pushed to the new console. But then again, this is first time in 14 years that Nintendo's homeconsole will have full cycle.
darkjak Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 So...cash=quality? Dude, that's very far from the truth. A perfectly good game can be made with a low budget, and a high-cost game can end up crappy. I've stated the opposite. On the Wii you DON'T need any absurd ammounts of cash to create a high quality game. On the HD formats it's a different matter. And do you really think they can easily surpass a good franchise that spent several games refining its formula? That's like saying the new TMNT fighting game could surpass Tekken, Street Fighter or Smash Bros, just because there's effort going into it. Nintendo have done it before. Goldeneye crapped in Dooms, Quakes and Duke Nukems face when it came out. Excitebike 64 owned all other motorcycle games, and really do you remember any snowboard games before SSX, beyond 1080? Nintendo have so many cunning people that they could easilly create something that'll change a genre forever. Killzone 2 doesn't need to sell anywhere near that much to break even . Actually yes. The game cost about 30 milion Euros to develop. I believe that number was named in the latest Game Reactor. But er, why don't they make them? Cause they tried doing that, for about a decade, and Sony kicked their arses. They did? As far as I remember, Goldeneye sold 8 milion copies, and MGS, 1080, Excitebike 64, Perfect Dark all came out into the Players Choice series. Sony have only kicked Nintendos asses in a select few genres, like racing. But that's because Nintendo DIDN'T try to get an equivelant, despite lots of Nintendo fans wanting it for a decade. When I read Nintendo magazines, there were allways people sending in letters asking if Nintendo are developing a Gran Turismo beater. First it was explainable: the cartridges can't fit the 600 cars of GT2, or even the 150 cars of GT1. But on the GC it became a lot more questinable. Neither did Nintendo get an equivelant to Tekken or Virtua Fighter. Nintendo were NEVER competing propperly. Developing these types of games would generate quite a bit of proffit, plus it could restore Nintendo's reputation. And well, at least I don't recall the N64 being considered a kiddy console. I don't at all remember stubling across the debate until after the WW release.
Recommended Posts