Reggie Thinks 3rd Parties Don't 'Get' The Wii

[dazzybee]

Very butch hug back!

 

 

 

I love F-Zero too, and 2D Metroid, whereas I'm not keen on 1st-person Metroid and I can't stand any version of Mario Kart, ever!

 

You know, Emasher is 100% right that all systems need the masses, and that good games are available on all of them. It's not that I like the shooters on the 360, or think they're more "hardcore" than the Wii games, because I don't. What I'm saying is that Mario, Zelda et al would benefit far more from that kind of horsepower (and dual-analogue controller, for that matter) than they would from anything about the Wii.

 

The mainstream are happy with Call of Duty, Gears of War etc, the other type of casuals are happy with Wii Sports etc. It's actually only the Nintendo fan who loses out - those of us who know how good their games can be when they've evolved a full generation.

 

My general point in this is that Nintendo have spent the past three and a half years telling gamers what we want and developers what they want. "You don't need processing power, you don't want HD" etc... It's about time they listened. Take the hint, Reggie! It's not that they don't "get" the Wii, it's just that they don't much like it. You can't tell developers what they want in a system.

 

It's not that Nintendo's 1st-party games are bad. In general, the quality is still there, but nothing about the machine is able to elevate them in the same way the N64 and GameCube games were from their previous versions. If Nintendo can't demonstrate that the Wii can improve their own games, why should 3rd-parties think it can improve theirs?

 

Okay, maybe I should have read back through everything, you do have insight and put forward an intellgient respsonse I completely disagree with it, but at least it's thougt out. So please ignore the harshness of my last pst when I thought you were just being a git!!

 

I completely disagree with 1st party games not being up to standard. During the Gamcube people were saying exactly the same thing then too - "The quality is no where near the N64 and SNES"; next generation people will be saying "Games arent a patch on Gamecube and Wii!" It's just the way things go!

 

Also disagree about the third parties, though I understand my disagreement is completely subjective; I think HD and horsepower have advanced things EXTREMELY little and the Wii has moved genres on WAY more and introduced new ones too. History, I'm sure, will show this as the case.

 

But again, I like some traditional games occassionally too and believe 3rd perties will start releasing some amazing software - Conduit, Madowlrd, Monster Hunter 3 is just the start of some potentially AAA 3rd party releases!!

 

Would I prefer the Wii to be HD and as powerful as the next gen, in theory yes. At the sacrifice of the motion controls, simplicity and style? Not a chance

[darkjak]

Do we really need a realistic racer? Realism tends to be less fun in games, why not just have a fun racer and not care about weather its realistic or not.

Do you really want me to answer that? OK, suit yourself. Yes, the Wii needs a high quality realistic racer to have a good variety of games. Just because you don't like realistic racers, doesen't mean that we shouldn't get one. And also, MSR isn't that realistic. It's got real cars, and takes place in real cities, but the cars aren't that hard to drive.

 

Basically what you're doing with FPS games is listing all the decent ones that are on the Wii and saying they don't count. Just because a game takes place in WWII doesn't mean its automatically bad. MOH:H2 was great, and I've been hearing good things about COD:WAW. And then there's Metroid Prime 3, though you're probably going to come up with some reason why you thought it was bad anyway.

MOH:H was a good game the first time I played through it. But I've noticed that I have no will whatsoever to play any of the levels again, like in Goldeneye, Perfect Dark or Timesplitters. Plus that the graphics were barelly N64 level. CoD:WAW was supposedly a good FPS, I'm thinking of buying it, but the game lacks some features that the other versions have (voice coms, zombie mode). What I'd like is a game that from beginning to end was developed for the Wii. Something with the feel of Timesplitters, Goldeneye or Perfect Dark.

Metroid Prime 3 was an amazing game, but was it really an FPS? And of course, if it would have had online multiplayer, it would be a swift kick across genre borders against Master Cheifs scrotum.

 

Is there any reason we can't support Nintendo. Most of us have had some great experiences this generation with Nintendo. Just because all the games don't specifically cater to your unique taste doesn't mean its not catering to anyone else.

ALL of us have had some great experiences on the Wii. All the games don't have to cater to me. But there should be games that cater for all of us.

 

But judging by the amount of money they're making, I'm pretty sure they're going to do something with it.

My point exactly. And my suggestion is to use it to get a larger variety of games for their system.

 

I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing them do that. But If I saw that game on a store shelf I probably wouldn't buy it as I'm not really that into generic racers, and a lot of other people I think will agree with this.

A lot, but not everyone. I'm a gamer, and I'm really bumed out that I'll have to buy a second console to get all the gaming experiences I want. Especially since I bought the right console this time. The Wii will probably stand for a majority of my gaming this generation, but I still think that the Wii, with it's lower development costs, and much larger audience should have more and better games than the rest.

 

And no, I'm not saying that the other formats have games for everyone. But they're striving towards it, and so should Nintendo.

[Hero-of-Time]

It's been interesting to sit back and read this. Reggie does have a point about the third party devs but in some respect he is also talking about Nintendo because do THEY really get the Wii? I think the problem is that noone knows what the Wii is about. It's about families sitting down and playing together. It's about kids playing more interactive stuff. It's about this and about that. The problem is that the Wii is shooting for several demographics and so devs are feeling that they need to do things for all of them in the games, which means they end up muddled and awful trying to do too many things.

 

Nice post there, Ganepark.

 

Another point I will make is that I imagine 3rd parties look at what games sell on the Wii and will try to follow on from them. Games such as Big Beach Sports and Carnival: Funfair Games sold very well considering they were budget titles. Yeah they maybe fun games to play but they are not games that you would say had alot of polish to them.

 

Now imagine you were in charge of a 3rd party and seen that these type of games sell well on the Wii. Why wouldnt you make something like that rather than say porting a 360/PS3 title? There is a good chance that it wont sell that well and if the recent charts are anything to go by then that does seem to be the case. You just have to look at the sales of Fifa, Smackdown and CoD on the Wii compared to the other 2 consoles and things look at bit iffy when it comes to the multiformat games.

 

Dazzybee said the following in the Charts thread the other week and I have to agree.

 

Call of Duty Wii failing, Fifa Wii failing Smackdown Wii failing..... Wii owners simply don't like Multiformat releases most of the time....it's a little worrying!!!

 

In my own opinion I think the Wii 3rd party support has been fine. We have had exclusives such as DeBlob, Boom Blox, Opoona, NiGHTS, Sonic, Monkeyball, Samba De Amigo, Cooking Mama, MySims and Zack and Wiki to name a few. The list for next year is even more impressive.

 

If you want to play games such as Dead Space, Mirrors Edge etc then sadly you will probably have to buy another console as games such as these on the Wii will be few and far between.

 

At the end of the day most people on here who bought a Wii probably bought it for Nintendos games. We have had to endure very poor support from 3rd parties since the N64 era and this has been the best Nintendo fans have had it for a while. Sure we should be getting main installments of big name franchises from 3rd parties but how about we stop moaning about what we cant play and just enjoy the games we can.

[Tellyn]

Now imagine you were in charge of a 3rd party and seen that these type of games sell well on the Wii. Why wouldnt you make something like that rather than say porting a 360/PS3 title? There is a good chance that it wont sell that well and if the recent charts are anything to go by then that does seem to be the case. You just have to look at the sales of Fifa, Smackdown and CoD on the Wii compared to the other 2 consoles and things look at bit iffy when it comes to the multiformat games.

 

To be fair, unless the Wii version is actually the ultimate version of the game (such as with Shaun White Snowboarding) then it won't be advertised or supported at all by the publisher.

[Hero-of-Time]

To be fair, unless the Wii version is actually the ultimate version of the game (such as with Shaun White Snowboarding) then it won't be advertised or supported at all by the publisher.

 

Very true.

 

My mate was at the cinema the other day and got an advert for CoD but it only showed the 360 and PS3 versions, the Wii version didnt even get a sniff.

[Grazza]

Okay, maybe I should have read back through everything, you do have insight and put forward an intellgient respsonse I completely disagree with it, but at least it's thougt out. So please ignore the harshness of my last pst when I thought you were just being a git!!

 

OK, since you've apologised and I didn't read it until you'd also posted this, let's forget about it.

 

I completely disagree with 1st party games not being up to standard. During the Gamcube people were saying exactly the same thing then too - "The quality is no where near the N64 and SNES"; next generation people will be saying "Games arent a patch on Gamecube and Wii!" It's just the way things go!

 

Good point, I do remember that and I completely disagreed with them both then and now. Just to make it clear, I do not think Nintendo's game design has slackened off. Super Mario Galaxy is top class, just like Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario 64 were.

 

This really isn't the same type of thing, because wouldn't you agree that Metroid Prime 3 is only really a rounding-off of the trilogy (obvious, I know) and feels very much like the GameCube games? I also maintain they haven't made a proper Zelda for the system. (Frankly, the mismanagement of Twilight Princess is the thing that's annoyed me about Nintendo.)

 

What I'm saying is that the enjoyment is through the sheer design of the games (not a bad thing in itself), but is akin to the pleasure you'd get from extended GameCube releases rather than the thrill of a new console.

 

You may think I'm negative, but you should hear me rave about Wind Waker, Dragon Quest VIII or Shadow of the Colossus! I'm just giving an honest appraisal of the the Wii so far.

 

I don't mean to speak for everyone, but when I say "unbiased, general gamer", I mean the keen gamer who has always read multi-format magazines and websites. Of course, no one's perfect and even there you get bias.

 

There is a lot to be optimistic about though, because I genuinely think MotionPlus could "fix" the system. If so, there'll be a really good reason for 3rd-parties to want to work on the machine. Add in a great Zelda and a Kid Icarus, and I might even end up loving the Wii!

[darksnowman]

At the end of the day most people on here who bought a Wii probably bought it for Nintendos games. We have had to endure very poor support from 3rd parties since the N64 era and this has been the best Nintendo fans have had it for a while. Sure we should be getting main installments of big name franchises from 3rd parties but how about we stop moaning about what we cant play and just enjoy the games we can.

 

Bingo, I think this is the kind of thing we need to all keep in mind. Sure, I have quite a few N64 games but they are all pretty much made by Nintendo or Rare with only a few, such as Duke Nukem 64, being the exceptions. Its a similar story on the Gamecube for me- basically all Nintendo bar the odd exception, right up until the end of the GC's lifespan when I started going through and picking up other games... though thats mainly due to the fact a CeX opened in my town! :p

 

As stupid as it sounds, Nintendo releasing Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash and Mario Kart already is basically what the problem is. The hype and buzz leading up to the release of these was intense- they need to run a dojo for Punch Out!! and give us daily updates.

[dazzybee]

OK, since you've apologised and I didn't read it until you'd also posted this, let's forget about it.

 

 

 

Good point, I do remember that and I completely disagreed with them both then and now. Just to make it clear, I do not think Nintendo's game design has slackened off. Super Mario Galaxy is top class, just like Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario 64 were.

 

This really isn't the same type of thing, because wouldn't you agree that Metroid Prime 3 is only really a rounding-off of the trilogy (obvious, I know) and feels very much like the GameCube games? I also maintain they haven't made a proper Zelda for the system. (Frankly, the mismanagement of Twilight Princess is the thing that's annoyed me about Nintendo.)

 

What I'm saying is that the enjoyment is through the sheer design of the games (not a bad thing in itself), but is akin to the pleasure you'd get from extended GameCube releases rather than the thrill of a new console.

 

You may think I'm negative, but you should hear me rave about Wind Waker, Dragon Quest VIII or Shadow of the Colossus! I'm just giving an honest appraisal of the the Wii so far.

 

I don't mean to speak for everyone, but when I say "unbiased, general gamer", I mean the keen gamer who has always read multi-format magazines and websites. Of course, no one's perfect and even there you get bias.

 

There is a lot to be optimistic about though, because I genuinely think MotionPlus could "fix" the system. If so, there'll be a really good reason for 3rd-parties to want to work on the machine. Add in a great Zelda and a Kid Icarus, and I might even end up loving the Wii!

 

Yeah I see what you're saying; but I LOVED Twilight Princess and I thought the basic use of the Wii controller ADDED to the experience, I enjoyed slashing with the wiimote and aiming with the IR; I also thought the FPS controls on Metroid 3 were incredible and even now I struggle to enjoy the controls on (what are incredible) FPS on 360 and PS3, wishing I could play them with the Wii. Also, I feel Pro Evo has turned the football genre on it's head and offers a completely new and incredible control scheme. Remember it's only the first 2 years of the Wiis life.

 

And like you said, wiimotionplus will (hopefully) take things to a new level! I'm personally very excited!

[Gaijin von Snikbah]

3rd parties are making hardcore games. Not softcore games. Nintendo themselves doesnt make games only for the core gamers. They make games for everybody.

 

If Nintendo wants more core games for their system they will have to start making core specific games to show that it can sell on the Wii.

[Hellfire]

C'mon, it's obvious unbiased, general gamers are disappointed with the Wii. Fanboys are happy though, as it says "Nintendo" on it.

...

I don't mean to speak for everyone, but when I say "unbiased, general gamer", I mean the keen gamer who has always read multi-format magazines and websites. Of course, no one's perfect and even there you get bias.

 

Ah that explains it. I'm writing this down so I don't forget it. Seriously, let's not go there, it's a train thought that ends in blood. Not only does this take premise on the small internet stratum, which isn't composed of all the informed avid gamers by far, it's a lie and misconception. If gamers' were so malcontent with the Wii, it would have stopped selling as would software.

 

I'm not trying to have a war or picking on you or something here, seriously just trying to clear up what I think is incredibly wrong and unfair, because you're basically saying that if a gamer knows its stuff, he doesn't like the Wii, if he likes it, he's a fanboy and that's just leaving no wiggle room for the option that people might actually like it and be informed, either because it was what they expected, because they have other consoles to fill the gaps or both. I wish people would understand that most people become fans of a brand because they agree and like what they do and their MO, not the other way around.

 

Also, you say games that have controls not possible on other consoles feel like extension of GC games. Seriously? I mean, we have two other consoles, with the majority of the games being mostly the same since times immemorial with graphic enhancements and online and Wii is the one that provides an extension of GC games? I honestly don't get it. Like dazzy said, the controls add so much to the experience, I can't see how that argument can hold water, even in TP's case which is a GC game, since the IR controls added something unexperiencable otherwise. To me, this is a full next-gen leap. Maybe to you it isn't, but to me it seems it just shows that what you want, like I said to others, is a more graphical and online intensive experience. Also, if you raved about WW, SOTC and DQVIII, agh :P

 

As stupid as it sounds, Nintendo releasing Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash and Mario Kart already is basically what the problem is. The hype and buzz leading up to the release of these was intense- they need to run a dojo for Punch Out!! and give us daily updates.

It doesn't sound stupid at all, blowing their load early was a huge risk, they're obviously still catching their breath.

 

 

HoT and dazzy are pretty much spot on about everything mainly 3rd party customer support. I'll add this, you see so many people here and on other forums slagging Wii for not having good 3rd party games, that they don't sell, that there aren't core games and the latest trend, their Wii is gathering dust. But when good games come out, which is to me more frequent than before, do they buy them? No. They simply ignore them like they never existed. So, yeah your Wii is gathering dust, you need to buy games in order to play it.

[Blue_Ninja0]

Metroid Prime 3 is OK, but it's difficult to notice any improvement over the GameCube games. The increased loading times are very noticeable though. The pointing's fine but, again, no real advantage over a 2nd analogue stick.

 

Thanks, this just made my day.

 

It seems you don't know how to use a Wiimote, hence such negativism against some great games you mentioned in some of your posts.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

 

As stupid as it sounds, Nintendo releasing Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash and Mario Kart already is basically what the problem is. The hype and buzz leading up to the release of these was intense- they need to run a dojo for Punch Out!! and give us daily updates.

 

But really, TP and most probably Galaxy were Gamecube-bound (as well as Super paper Mario). So they haven't really 'blown their load' just yet. It was about this time in the GC generation we got Wind Waker. Sunshine, Prime and Melee were also available at this point and these were all 'fresh' GC titles, in that, unlike GC-Wii conversion, N64-GC conversion was impossible for many reasons. So lets not think Nintendo have been over-exerting themselves just for the fact they've released their big guns in a short space of time. Nintendo clearly did work their butts off for the Gamecube in comparison.

[Hellfire]

Galaxy itself wasn't in the works for GC, people think that because of Mario 128 but the game was always made for Wii from ground up. As was Prime 3, Brawl and MK. They didn't blow their whole load because they're not stupid and think before doing, but they certainly worked very hard to release all these games and IP wise they released the main ones fast.

[Emasher]

But really, TP and most probably Galaxy were Gamecube-bound (as well as Super paper Mario). So they haven't really 'blown their load' just yet. It was about this time in the GC generation we got Wind Waker. Sunshine, Prime and Melee were also available at this point and these were all 'fresh' GC titles, in that, unlike GC-Wii conversion, N64-GC conversion was impossible for many reasons. So lets not think Nintendo have been over-exerting themselves just for the fact they've released their big guns in a short space of time. Nintendo clearly did work their butts off for the Gamecube in comparison.

 

But wait, why does it matter if a game was being developed for the GC or for the Wii? They still have to develop the game in the first place.

[dazzybee]

But really, TP and most probably Galaxy were Gamecube-bound (as well as Super paper Mario). So they haven't really 'blown their load' just yet. It was about this time in the GC generation we got Wind Waker. Sunshine, Prime and Melee were also available at this point and these were all 'fresh' GC titles, in that, unlike GC-Wii conversion, N64-GC conversion was impossible for many reasons. So lets not think Nintendo have been over-exerting themselves just for the fact they've released their big guns in a short space of time. Nintendo clearly did work their butts off for the Gamecube in comparison.

 

Two points.

 

1. Do you not think there were games that came out for the 360 and PS3 that were originally intended to come out last gen? Do you really think it's just Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario (no idea where you got galaxy from)? It happens all the time. When Duke Nukem comes out are you going to dismiss it and say it was an N64 game? What about Too Human? Is that a Gamecube game?

 

2. Yup, they haven't blown their load yet and we've still got some of the greatest games of all time on the Wii....in TWO YEARS!! Imagine when they actually do blow their load!!

[Grazza]

I'm not trying to have a war or picking on you or something here, seriously just trying to clear up what I think is incredibly wrong and unfair, because you're basically saying that if a gamer knows its stuff, he doesn't like the Wii, if he likes it, he's a fanboy and that's just leaving no wiggle room for the option that people might actually like it and be informed, either because it was what they expected, because they have other consoles to fill the gaps or both.

 

Not at all. I didn't say only fanboys like the Wii. To my mind, any informed gamer would want to play Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3 and Twilight Princess (not necessarily on the Wii though).

 

Also, those tempted by the adverts (eg. Wii Sports, Wii Fit) seem to be satisfied with it. Like I say, those who have no time for Nintendo are also satisfied, because they just don't understand how good their games can be.

 

But I really don't think their current games are so amazing compared to the competition as they were for the N64 and GameCube. Shame for me, I suppose.

 

I wish people would understand that most people become fans of a brand because they agree and like what they do and their MO, not the other way around.

 

I do understand that. Nintendo won its fans by genuinely being better than the competition a lot of the time.

[Ganepark32]

You know what I'd love.... I'd love for people to stop bashing Twilight Princess. Really annoys me. It was and still is a fantastic game, both on the GC and Wii. Who cares if it was meant for the GC but got a release on the Wii? I certainly don't. At least people got the chance to play it. Should Nintendo have only released it on the GC, hardly anyone would have been able to get a copy with stores stopping selling new GC games by the time it came out. It's still miles aheas of any other adventure games coming out on other consoles, with only Okami being able to go toe to toe with the Zelda games.

 

Likewise, similarly with Metroid Prime 3. Yes it was built upon using the basics from the GC games but it was far more than a spruced up GC game. And anyone who thinks that the dual analogue controls are better are idiots. Go back and play the original two Primes after playing this and you'll wish it had the Wii controls.

[Choze]

Wii audience is very different. The strategy for PS3 and 360 wont work on Wii. Ironically in other cases games like LBP are better suited to Wii.

[Hellfire]

Wii audience is very different. The strategy for PS3 and 360 wont work on Wii. Ironically in other cases games like LBP are better suited to Wii.

Indeed, LBP is the kind of game that would fit on the Wii.

[Pit-Jr]

I do understand that. Nintendo won its fans by genuinely being better than the competition a lot of the time.

 

You said a mouthful there. Unfortunately Nintendo seems more than content to be 'best-selling' than the 'best'. Im not saying their Wii games are bad, they just arent top of their class like they rightfully should be.

Maybe i expect too much out of them but how can i not after theyre stellar showing on past consoles

[Hero-of-Time]

Indeed, LBP is the kind of game that would fit on the Wii.

 

The same goes for Viva Pinata.

[dazzybee]

The same goes for Viva Pinata.

 

Yeah I really like the Viva Pinata (top 3 games on 360 IMO) and think the DS version is even better due to the platform; I think a Wii version would be awesome. Shame it will never happen

[Hellfire]

You said a mouthful there. Unfortunately Nintendo seems more than content to be 'best-selling' than the 'best'. Im not saying their Wii games are bad, they just arent top of their class like they rightfully should be.

Maybe i expect too much out of them but how can i not after theyre stellar showing on past consoles

Ding ding ding ding we have a winner! People completly lost perspective and have ridiculously different standards of Nintendo, only rarely can they get satisfied. The love hate cycle with N64->GC->Wii OoT->MM->WW->TP is a perfect example of this.

[dazzybee]

I'm pretty confident that in 20 odd years, gamers all over the world will look back on the Wii has one of the greatest consoles ever created. Certainly the most influential!

[Dante]

The same goes for Viva Pinata.

 

the same goes for BK N&B