Nintendo Business/Sales Discussion

[Fused King]

Lol, has this now become the 'one-guy-bitches-and-moans-while-other-guys-try-to-prove-his-bitching-and-moaning-wrong' Thread?

 

Seriously, NINTENDO hásn't lost their passion for pleasing the consumer, it's just that they have a much broader audience now and they need to adjust their marketing strategies.

As they get feedback from us 'hardcore gamers' about 'hardcore games', they'll hopefully make THOSE games more to OUR liking.

[Emasher]

Next year we're getting:

 

Mario Galaxy 2

Metroid Other M

And Possibly (If Miyamoto gets his way) Zelda Wii

 

If Zelda alone comes out next year, sales I'm sure will pick up dramatically for the console. Many people who sold it due to a lack of software are probably going to buy a new one to play Zelda on. Many people who haven't bothered with a Wii yet might buy it one just to play Zelda. Zelda has always been a console selling game for Nintendo in the past to those in the more "hardcore" demographic, I don't see why its not going to be this time. I know a few people who are waiting for Zelda Wii to buy the console personally. The other 2 games, and also other 1st party games like Pikmin 3 will help.

 

Also, remember Nintendo haven't dropped the Wii's price yet, and outside of japan, they haven't released more colours yet.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Emasher

[Shino]

I just wanna quickly pop in and say:

 

With the Wii, i've never seen so many gamers who loved one console (Gamecube) go on to abandon the same consoles successor (Wii). For the last 2 years we've been having this debate and people keep getting rid of their Wii's because there's little to play on it and FAR more quality titles on 360/PS3. I mean, just look at metacritic; over 130 360 games have a score over 80% compared to barely 50 Wii games. I'm sorry, but this isn't good enough and Nintendo seriously need to up their game. Us core nintendo gamers last gen only missed out on a few AAA titles on other systems but I was happy there with my RE4, WW, Prime, Melee etc, however this generation the support the 360 has got in terms of games has been mindblowing.

 

Have you heard of the PS2? It was way more than a few.

 

And even though the metacritic score is debatable 50 games above 80 are enough for me since I can't get the games I grow up liking anywhere else, which can't actually be said about the 360.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Shino

[Fused King]

Smooth Criminal is my favourite song of Michael Jackson.

 

uhm, ......thanks shino:yay:

[Pookiablo]

Ninty aren't releasing enough in my view - to be nearly 3 years into the Wii's lifetime, and have only seen a small fraction of Nintendo franchises actually appear in a new form on Wii is beyond ridiculous. I mean, I prefer Wii to Gamecube but hell, at least they actually released SOME games for that dreadful excuse of a console (I'm not a fan of it - plus they weren't exactly quick with GC releases either).

 

Nintendo seems to be hedging it's bets on the casual crowd a little too much - sure the casual brings in money, but there's nothing to suggest that they'll be around forever. Has Nintendo abandoned its core audience? In its own eyes: no, we're just too fussy and demanding, in our own eyes: yes (or at least most probably), we're buying the bloody thing and we know what we want.

 

I think Ninty forgets that it's their core audience that got them through the N64/Gamecube eras - disappointing them now isn't the best idea if Wii, or Wii 2 or whatever comes next goes tits up.

[Emasher]

Remember, all nintendo's casual Wii games are made by one team. Animal Crossing included (Though its not really a casual game). Nintendo have lots of teams.

[Dante]

Nintendo: Wii Sports Resort Sells More Than 500,000 Units in North America

 

Nintendo has provided staycations to thousands of people nationwide since the July 26 launch of its Wii Sports Resort™ game. More than 500,000 units of the game for the Wii™ console sold in the United States through Aug. 3, according to Nintendo’s internal tracking numbers. The collection of 12 fun resort-themed sports lets players of all ages escape to a tropical island for some year-round summer fun. The game comes with one Wii MotionPlus™ accessory, which brings unmatched accuracy to games that have been specially designed for it.

 

“Through Monday we sold one copy of Wii Sports Resort roughly every 1.5 seconds continuously since it launched in the United States,” said Cammie Dunaway, Nintendo of America’s executive vice president of Sales & Marketing. “This tells us consumers were eagerly waiting to get their hands on these fun activities, and it’s a great start for a game that will have long-lasting appeal.”

 

Wii Sports Resort includes archery, Swordplay, table tennis, basketball, golf, bowling, Air Sports, Power Cruising, Frisbee®, cycling, canoeing and wakeboarding. The game is easy enough for novices to pick up but contains a tremendous amount of variety and depth to keep veteran players and their friends and family members entertained for hours on end.

 

Remember that Wii features parental controls that let adults manage the content their children can access. For more information about this and other Wii features, visit Wii.com.

 

Wii Sports Resort is available at a suggested retail price of $49.99. Additional Wii MotionPlus accessories are available at a suggested retail price of $19.99 each. For more information about Wii Sports Resort, visit http://www.WiiSportsResort.com.

[Neogamer]

Shino wrote:

 

With the Wii, i've never seen so many gamers who loved one console (Gamecube) go on to abandon the same consoles successor (Wii). For the last 2 years we've been having this debate and people keep getting rid of their Wii's because there's little to play on it and FAR more quality titles on 360/PS3. I mean, just look at metacritic; over 130 360 games have a score over 80% compared to barely 50 Wii games. I'm sorry, but this isn't good enough and Nintendo seriously need to up their game. Us core nintendo gamers last gen only missed out on a few AAA titles on other systems but I was happy there with my RE4, WW, Prime, Melee etc, however this generation the support the 360 has got in terms of games has been mindblowing.

 

There you have it: Mindblowing. I recall seeing another review board for xbox360 titles a little over a year ago, and I was blown away! So I bought an xbox360 and have not regretted it. Currently playing Banjo-Tooie downloaded in glorious HD remake from Xbox Live. And what a joy it is to behold and play. Throughout the xbox360 gaming library I see mostly great games. On Wii, mostly shovelware as I have said many times.

 

Nintendo has that problem, and if they don´t get their act together, and start giving us more classic titles, they´re might end up being perceived as a second rate console in comparison to Xbox360. This will spell trouble for them as to the gamer perception starting with the next console launch. People might go for Xbox 720 instead or whatever it will be called. It seems as if the grip Nintendo have on the light gamers is starting to slip. Just a feeling. But I think I am not too wrong about it. The winner of the console war this time will likely be Microsoft, if Nintendo do not give us what we want. And that is the same level og gaming excellence they did in the past when their weren´t so many other people in their userbase to cater to.

 

Once I feared that Microsoft would win. Today I am more like focusing on where the games are that I want to play. If they are on Wii. I will go there, and stay there. If they are on Xbox360, I will go there, and stay there. As plain and as simple as that. Who is the best to ensure that great titles continue to come out on their console, and not suddenly dry up? That company is the clear winner of any console war long-term.

[Goron_3]

Actually it was I that wrote that, not Shino

 

And yeah I'd agree Shino, the PS2 did have some quality games in retrospect BUT i was happy enough with my GC. It's different this time round because if I only had a Wii i'd be missing out on tonnes of stuff.

[dazzybee]

Neogamer: You need to fine-tune your eyes. You say you mostly see great games on 360 and shovelware on Wii. Do I really need to show you how stupid this comment is? There are awful and great games for both machines. Yeah there is loads of shit on the wii, but because it's the most popular console, it ALWAYS happens. Was the PS2 shit because it has loads of shovelware?

 

It sounds like pure bias if all your see is great stuff on one and shit on the other. Fact is, how many games are we all going to buy? What experiences do we want? Every console has more than enough excellent games on it.

[Neogamer]

Goron3, my apologies!

 

And Dazzybee: let the review scores determine hich console has the best games. By shovelware, I mean low budget titles that are half-finished, with crappy graphics, horrible control or a too steep learning curve. Or just uninteresting. That is shovelware. Perhaps not to you, but to me. See, the reason why I ever bought a Nintendo console was that they had some games that were so awesome that nothing in the competition compared.

 

Today, I nolonger think so. They have diluted the quality, and I don´t think I am the only forum member who think so. Not when seeing what others have already said about the issue in this thread. Perhaps you want to call them stupid, too? You seem to hang on to the premise that there is nothing wrong with the Wii´s catalogue of games. And that there is enough for everyone to dive into and play. Let us see what the coming months will bring in the sales numbers. Coming years. I have made my predictions, provided Nintendo do not catch up and stop the trend of 3. party games on their consoles that never quite seem to compare to the quality they, at least so once, were famous for.

[dazzybee]

I'm sure i said all consoles have shit games and some have good games. And Im quite clear on what shovelware is, do you not think such games grace the 360? If not you're a liar!

 

And there are a lot more games that I can only get on the Wii than I can only get on the 360 and PS3.

 

And I never called you stupid for your opinion, but for your argument, so stop putting words in my mouth (which you have done a number of times) and actually read what I'm saying.

 

I'll lay it out so you can understand more clearly:

 

All three consoles have amazing games

All three consoles have really shit games

The Wii has more shit games because it is the most popular (and cheap to develop for) which happens EVERY. SINGLE. GENERATION.

 

As for diluting quality. That's subjective and to say other members agree with you. Obviously; whatever viewpoint anyone has, there'll be people who agree with them. Fine, I hate GTA4 and Halo 3 but I wouldn't say 360 has no good games, or the quality is dropping or anything.

 

And to say let's see how sales will go - oh boy, firstly, sales numbers have NO reflection how good something is, can't believe you even brought this up. Secondly, I will put my left testicle that the Wii will outsell the others consoles and the Wii Fit and New Super Mario Bros and Wii Sports Resort will sell more than any other console exclusive on the other platforms.

[Neogamer]

Dazzybee, wrote:

 

I'm sure i said all consoles have shit games and some have good games. And Im quite clear on what shovelware is, do you not think such games grace the 360? If not you're a liar!

 

Yes, there is such rubbish games on the xbox360, but they´re not so many as on Wii. Not from what I have seen so far.

 

Dazzybee, wrote:

 

And there are a lot more games that I can only get on the Wii than I can only get on the 360 and PS3.

 

Great, that´s good for you. It´s like that with Nintendo, that only they make the Mario´s, the Zelda´s, the Metroids, the Wii Sports etc.

 

Dazzybee, wrote:

And I never called you stupid for your opinion, but for your argument, so stop putting words in my mouth (which you have done a number of times) and actually read what I'm saying.

 

I never call people abusive names for their opinion. I try to just discuss, if there is any discussion that´s worth the time. And I do think this discussion is most interesting. There are some things I am not familiar with, but I know my stuff too after many years of observing the industry. I do not observe so much the financial aspects of it, but the up´s and downs of the gamequality. That is all that interests me. Finances never was my thing, nor numbers.

 

You also wrote:

All three consoles have amazing games

All three consoles have really shit games

The Wii has more shit games because it is the most popular (and cheap to develop for) which happens EVERY. SINGLE. GENERATION.

 

As for diluting quality. That's subjective and to say other members agree with you. Obviously; whatever viewpoint anyone has, there'll be people who agree with them. Fine, I hate GTA4 and Halo 3 but I wouldn't say 360 has no good games, or the quality is dropping or anything.

 

And to say let's see how sales will go - oh boy, firstly, sales numbers have NO reflection how good something is, can't believe you even brought this up. Secondly, I will put my left testicle that the Wii will outsell the others consoles and the Wii Fit and New Super Mario Bros and Wii Sports Resort will sell more than any other console exclusive on the other platforms.

 

In what does sales numbers have nothing to do with the quality. Because the light gamers mostly just buy games like mindless robots? Surely, where 1 million copies of a game are sold, or just 100.000 of another, it must reflect the popularity of the games. And I hope the Wii will outsell the others as I am still for Nintendo. But I hope it will outsell because of games that people think are great and will continue to think are great, and which they´ll not suddenly tire of and shelve their machines for that reason.

[Emasher]

Are there not actually more games for the Wii than there are the 360? The number of crappy games on a console has no relation to the number of good ones anyway.

 

There are 52 Nintendo published games on the Wii. They're not all popular Nintendo IPs.

[jammy2211]

Lots of games you call shovalware and enjoyed by lots of people - who then go out to buy the sequels. They're not being conned, they're not idiots, they enjoy the games and them going out to buy further iterations just show their please with these games. Not everyone wants to play a Zelda or Mario, and this was true well before the DS and Wii started sparking this dumbass casual vs hardcore argument.

 

It's pure elitism on your part to begrudge the Wii's library cause it has lots of games you don't like - fair enough some of the shovalware is of such poor quality and lacking actual functuality that is shouldn't make it to market, but this still happens on the HD consoles too.

 

Alot of casual games are actually really well designed for their market and alot of money is pumped into them to make sure they're accessible to their intended audience.

 

I'll say it again, Neogamer, you're getting your own opinions and views mixed in with whether Nintendo's strategy is going to be successful.

[Ren of Heavens]

Ninty aren't releasing enough in my view - to be nearly 3 years into the Wii's lifetime, and have only seen a small fraction of Nintendo franchises actually appear in a new form on Wii is beyond ridiculous.

First 2,5 years: Excite Truck, Zelda: Twilight Princess, Super Paper Mario, Pokémon Battle Revolution, Metroid Prime 3, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Super Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Animal Crossing: City Folk, Punch-Out!!. Plus all the casual stuff. And it's still early days...

 

Nintendo themselves have done a pretty good job actually. Blame the lacklustre line-up on Square, Rockstar, Ubisoft, Activision etc. instead who has yet to deliver a single AAA game to the system.

[Emasher]

Lots of games you call shovalware and enjoyed by lots of people - who then go out to buy the sequels. They're not being conned, they're not idiots, they enjoy the games and them going out to buy further iterations just show their please with these games. Not everyone wants to play a Zelda or Mario, and this was true well before the DS and Wii started sparking this dumbass casual vs hardcore argument.

 

It's pure elitism on your part to begrudge the Wii's library cause it has lots of games you don't like - fair enough some of the shovalware is of such poor quality and lacking actual functuality that is shouldn't make it to market, but this still happens on the HD consoles too.

 

Alot of casual games are actually really well designed for their market and alot of money is pumped into them to make sure they're accessible to their intended audience.

 

I'll say it again, Neogamer, you're getting your own opinions and views mixed in with whether Nintendo's strategy is going to be successful.

 

 

This. Casual Games != Shovelware. I wish people would realize that.

[Neogamer]

Jammy 2211, wrote:

 

I'll say it again, Neogamer, you're getting your own opinions and views mixed in with whether Nintendo's strategy is going to be successful.

 

Really? Their strategy might pay off, or might not. I grew up with SEGA, and my first videogame console was a SEGA Megadrive with the action adventure game Alicia Dragoon, which was the greatest experience I had had by then with interactive media. For some years all was well with the flow of games, and it was the no. 1 selling games console in the Europe, but I don´t recall how it sold in the rest of the world. Then things turned around suddenly when SEGA started to push their userbase around with expensive, little utilized, add-ons for the same console things began to slip for them. SEGA 32X I think one of them was called, and it was a disaster with only a handfull of games that utilized it.

 

People became fed up, and SEGA didn´t listen. They kept on not listening. And so the gamer perception with SEGA shifted as people began to look for something else to play on. And lo and behold...Playstation popped up out of the blue, and with so many games that people ran after it, bought it and many games, and laughed all the way home to their livingrooms.

 

When SEGA launched the more powerfull Sega Saturn console, they thought it would get the gamers back. It didn´t. They not only had waited for Sony´s little miracle box instead, it appeared as if they had stayed AWAY from SEGA´s machine even though it launched earlier than the Playstation. I recall all of it clearly. It went even worse when they launched the Dreamcast. Even though better, and more capable with graphics than Playstation 2, with far better games and easier to develope for, it sold only 4 million machines worldwide (or around that figure), and it bankrupted SEGA having paid over half a billion dollars to create it. Almost as much as it cost then to create a new car model.

 

That, my friend, is what people can do to a gaming company, if they for a long time get pushed around too much. They can collectively decide against the one who did it. Word of mouth. It is when I think of SEGA´s nightmare in those days, that this gamer pattern of behaviour springs to mind with regard to Nintendo. Nintendo might end up in that situation one day, should gamer perception shift to being against them. I myself feel pushed around by Nintendo. And while I am not on some mission to destroy them, predict their doom, or anything like that, I just believe that they should be carefull about what they do from now on.

 

My point is this: how many other gamers out there, out of the combined pool of gamers feel pushed around by Nintendo? For that is what will determine if they make it or not as the currently #1 videogames company.

 

I hope they make it, allthough I still sitting around waiting for Super Mario Galaxy 2, and a hopefully much better Zelda than TLP. These types of games are really the very reason why I ever started to play Nintendo games.

 

Can Nintendo cater to all of the various types of gamers they have in their fold, and still keep a decent quality cleaning up and denying access to the shovelware, or not? The next-coming years will show us just that. And by the way, the day that console makers agree in unison to deny access to subpar games on their platforms is going to be a great day for videogaming.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Neogamer

[Shino]

I'm like 15 years late but, Nintendo > Sega. Nintendo has a whole different culture that Sega didn't have by just trying to compete with Nintendo, specially at a corporate level.

 

Also, different times in history and different conditions etc...

[Emasher]

How can you feel pushed around. Nobody's forcing you to buy anything. The fact is, Nintendo own Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon, with these 3 IPs alone, Nintendo is guaranteed to always have some sort of income for the next decade at least, and probably longer. SEGA really only had Sonic, most of the old SEGA owned IPs just weren't and aren't as big as Nintendo's were/are. Lets face it, Sonic just isn't a timeless character, he was meant to be cool, and as soon as blue hedgehogs that could run fast weren't cool anymore, gamers in general stopped caring about him. SEGA, was never selling the best out of everything on the market during any generation either. Nintendo has been on top during 3 generations, SEGA never has. Nintendo knows the market very well at this point. They may have had some holes in their release schedule, but thats changing fast. They know what they're doing right now. While it may not have been possible to sell a peripheral back in the SEGA CD days, it obviously is now, look at how well Guitar Hero and Wii Fit sell.

[dazzybee]

I'm just gobsmacked at neogamers rationale...comparing what happened to SEGA with Nintendo now...who have never been so popular...it's baffling. The climate is completely different...

 

Nintendo couldn't be playing the current gaming climate more perfectly, they're redefining it... so much so that Sony and MS are desperately trying to copy the formula. Whether you like it or not is a different matter; but to predict their doom is just a tad rash.

 

Also, I think you're right about casuals getting bored with the Wii and there not being the software to keep them engaged... Wii Sports resort has only sold 2m copies in a couple of weeks. What a failure.

 

And in Japan, MH3 sold over 500,000 copies in a week, and over half bought it bundled with a console; likely all of these are "proper" gamers like yourself.... Nintendo are doomed!!!

[Shino]

And Sega CD barely added anything useful to games, Nintendo has always been more conservative on that aspect, cartridge over CD, SD over HD, gameboy without colours or backlight (seriously Sega...), always a with solid steps forward and focus on games. Even the wiimote being as different as it is, really wasn't a major risk. Adding to that its far more recognisable franchises that have always been marketed as the same thing, instead of the increasingly street and rad hedgehog.

[Fused King]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

 

My word, Neogamer is just too much fun.

I'm asthonished by his posts, does he work for a gaming magazine or something.

He cares a lot about the gaming industry if you'd ask me.

 

I'm actually amazed that people care so much about games. Sure they're awesome, but it isn't life. I'm not saying that I don't care, it's just that games and other hobbies ought to be a nice thing along the way of life, not something that fills the gap of someting which you lack in life, be it emotional or psychological.

 

Anyway, that just be me typing:laughing:

 

Can I has lolcats?

[Neogamer]

Emasher, I feel pushed around because as I wrote in the last post Nintendo´s Mario and Zelda was my reason for joining them. Today these franchises are not as good any more as they were. I have bought too many Nintendo consoles, too many of their games. And sold them again. Bought again. Sold again. Because: they did not deliver in the games what I had expected. People do that. Sell their machines when there is nothing for them to play on them.

 

Since with the Playstation 2 and first Xbox there were no games that could come close to the excellence of Nintendo´s own, meet that standard (except perhaps HALO), and since I then and now only want to play their own games on their consoles and not the 3. party titles, I feel pushed around when the only games I want to play dissapoint (!) again and again. Read this:

 

After the awesome Zelda´s on N64 Zelda Wind (girl-) Waker on GameCube was a huge dissapointment. Then I waited a loooong time for the next Zelda, which many including myself begged them to not be with Cellshading. They listened, but the final game was so diluted thanks to time constraints with them having to make the game for two consoles that it was a shock to me. Before the release of the game, I had waited years in great anticipation of that game following all the news I could get about the development of that game. It all looked to become a next-gen OOT.

 

After the awesome Mario 64, Nintendo gave me Super Mario Sunshine which was another huge dissapointment for being so incredibly difficult with a too steep learning curve, and annoying even downright ugly graphics, sprites. And strange half-done Super Mario 64-like levels. I hated that game. Another dissapointment for me was with Mario Galaxy which was simply so strange, with planet-worlds that were way too small to have any significant fun on, and later to get to the better places it got too difficult to my liking.

 

Same with Metroid Prime 2, it was enourmously difficult, not to mention set in a horrible world where even editors at IGN admitted in a review that there were places in it that they dreaded to go to. Retro admitted it was too difficult (EDGE Magazine interview). Prime 3 with an unresponsive Wiimote in crucial places or boss encounters, so that playing through it first I could beat certain bosses, playing through 2. and 3. time I couldn´t. Need I go on? Get my point when saying pushed around? The games that I, me, wanted to play most I could not play.

 

And Dazzybee, I am not saying it is the same for Nintendo now as with SEGA. I used the SEGA example to describe what happens when people go against a game company collectively. Read my post!

 

That is what people in game stores told me was the reason behind their demise. What I heard on the street too. People hated them. Ignored them. I sat on a bus with a newly bought Dreamcast, and all people did was to give the box a quick glance, shrug their shoulders, and continue their prior chat among themselves. It was dead in their minds. It was a very big eye-opener to me. The PS2 was the only point of real interest.

 

And, yes Nintendo will always have some income from Mario, Zelda and Metroid. But they might not be the #1 one day. I wanted them to be the #1 when they were #3 or #2 (people then couldn´t really agree if they were #2 or #3). Now I am not so sure anymore. But they might deliver next time. And they also better do that. Or I am done with them. Next time is the last chance for them with me.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Neogamer

[Shino]

Baaaawww.

 

Seriously, its just your opinion on the quality of the games. Thankfully you're rather lonely.