Neogamer

How much of an improvement is Windows 7 over Vista? I had huge problems with error messages that kept on popping up and ruining my online experience. I could not get games to run properly. And let me say right now that I am not a computer nurd. I have no interest in the inner workings of software or hardware except on a very superficial level. I currently have pc with XP Home running. It has never given me any one little problem with error messages or anyhting. I am considering to buy a MAC with their MAC OS. Should I go for Windows 7 instead, is it so much better than Vista that I wont be taken by nasty surprise this time again?

OK, will do that. Sorry if you think my posts are in the wrong thread. All I saw was the headline of the thread and found it appropriate to post here. And I agree that the discussion has gone far enough. I have learned some things about how other members view shovelware, and heard your views on Nintendo´s future. It has been interesting, and it is now up to the future to show what will actually happen for Nintendo.

Jammy2211, wrote: I know that because if Nintendo started doing that, they would nolonger be viewed as the gamemakers they started out as being. And they have done a pretty good job at ensuring the quality of what Retro put out with the 3 Metroid games (save for the difficulty in the 2. game which they later admitted was too difficult). If they began to censor out several popular game-series which people had loved for years, a lot of people would just avoid Nintendo consoles, and go elsewhere. If they found the same problem on Microsoft or Sony consoles, they would do the same with them. Jammy2211, wrote: I don´t think it will become like a dictatorial monopoly. Don´t forget why gaming became so popular in the first place. It did because people found the interactive experience great and sometimes better than watching movies. If Nintendo were to suddenly make games upon games that were utter rubbish they would lose their respect from the gaming community, and people would do like when they kill their telly: kill their console. Dazzebee: I agree with you people that the shovelware cannot be avoided - for now at least. And that there is different perspectives on what shovelware actually is. The way I see shovelware is games that are half-baked, rushed, with crappy graphics and bad sound. And a story that is just downright boring, with horrible controls that create frustration more than enjoyment. Emasher, wrote: So you do admit that people have an issue with Nintendo? Because for all of your flack over the past several posts, you have been busy at trying to say that hardly anyone but me have a problem with them. At least that was the tone of your posts. And Emasher: if you think I moan so much I would advise you to learn the difference between moaning and harsh criticism of something. I do not moan, I criticise. But I guess that is what it seems like to you. But at least you agree that many people are sharing my opinions, though not all (which I certainly never expected). I will not quit gaming. It´s too much of a drug to be quitting. Instead I will watch the reviews of the games that are released to market, and then play the ones that get the best review scores. Here I will be carefull of overrated games reviewed by zealous reviewers. Like when IGN gave Zelda: TLP 9.5 out of 10 where it should have been given 8 out of 10 for it´s lack of anything interesting to see or do outside of the main dungeons.

Emasher, despite of the sound of all of my posts I did not try to do any "trolling". I tried to float a different perspective on Nintendo´s actions in the gamingworld because I have felt betrayed by them many times where they didn´t care about how good some previous titles they made were or that people like myself would have preferred to see more of that again. They experimented, and out of that came mixed results. In my opinion, results that were far from the standards of the past. I wanted to see if there in this forum were members who had shared those same sorrows and hopes for something better. Not about moaning, but about where Nintendo is actually headed with how they have been acting with the games on Gamecube and Wii. Because I simply do not understand them unless to explain it by them being out of touch with at least some of their customers to some extent and that if that continues that is why I think they might get in trouble one day. Miyamoto always said that the customer comes first. If half the gamingworld were asking for a new Zelda game with realistic graphics following OOT and MM, why do they then under his leadership make one with cellshading that people freaked out over perhaps not in this forum but in many places across the internet when WW launched? After half the gaming world begged - again -for a Zelda with realistic graphics and when they finally give us one with those graphics years later they give us one where it is only half done for reasons of time constraints? Why did they launch an incredibly difficult Super Mario Sunshine with more cellshading that was never completed by anyone I know or heard of? Why not more of the same that was so great in the past? Only with Super Mario Galaxy 2 can I begin to see the levels returning to the glory of Super Mario 64-type of levels that gave me so much fun. But it is over 12 years after they launched Super Mario 64. Nintendo knows why Super Mario 64 was so great. It was so demanding to make in those days that some of the programmers left gaming for good being burned out. I think I read it in the former N64 Magazine where they ran a series called the Making of (insert game). Only now do they in my opinion start to create that type of fun in the games again. Make that kind of efforts to produce games that stand way apart from what other game-companies can make! I feel that the next Zelda will also be as great as OOT was, but if so it has taken them an equally long time to create the same excellence in a game that was seen with OOT. Inbetween I have seen nothing but dissapointments, and that is why I brought all of my posts into this forum. I want to talk to others about it, and it seems you people are perfectly content with just playing what there is to play from Nintendo. I am not like that at all. I only (continue to-) play it if it meets the standard they set with the N64 games, and which had the gaming press declare SM64 and OOT milestones in gaming by then for among others the sheer amount of fun to be had and passable learning curve in them. I do not accept anything less, do not make compromises. That is why I started to love Nintendo and still do to some extent. I just currently do not play any of their games for the stated reasons. I hope Nintendo knows what the heck they are doing. Jammy2211, wrote: There is a trend worthy to take a look at if a gaming company appears to start going quantity over quality. Nintendo made games from the start that no other companies made or could make. Do they still do so? Or not? Even if "most people" are happy with their games, it´s important to know just what those type of people are. Are they people who know anything about gaming or not at all? If not, the fact that they buy their games in such huge numbers doesn´t nescesarily mean that it is because the games are good! It could mean that Nintendo is choosing to jump over where the fence is the lowest, and cater to those gamers who do not demand so much from the games they play. Yes, Nintendo can harvest via the principles of their Blue Ocean-strategy, but it is a two-edged sword, since one day they may have harvested so many lesser demanding new customers that they are nolonger the ones they once were. Which will have huge implications on the entire gaming world, as Nintendo have for ages been the ones who innovated and others followed. They wont be much of an inspiration anymore if they one day nolonger create top notch entertainment. I hope that it will be like Metallica´s James Hetfield sings: "The Day That Never Comes". I think it is good to see what others think about Nintendo´s current direction and the implications of it. I just express what I see, or think I see. If any of you people can explain to me what Nintendo is actually doing feel free to tell me about it!

Emasher, I did NOT say that. Here is what I wrote: Nintendo should make up for, make u p for, the shovel ware by releasing more of their own titles. So that the quality OUTWEIGHS the shovelware quantity. Geddit? That is what I said. And who are you to speak on behalf of all of the rest in the entire forum by saying I am "just a troll" who comes from GC Forums to annoy you all? Are you the director of the forum? You´re not, and why don´t you read my post´s more clearly before pumping out a lot of hs about what you think about what I said? Be a troll yourself, man! You qualify for the most idiotic statement because you don´t read what I write. You are too insulting, which there is no need to be. If you don´t agree with me, don´t argue with me. I just try to make my point clear, and then hear what others think of it. Try to learn things. I have things to learn too. Captain Falcon, wrote: I understand. Well, then let them play away at what they think is fun. I guess you could say I am too biased in favour of the hardcoregamers, and what I have always been used to before they launched the Gamecube and Wii. You also wrote: I want Nintendo to release more of the decent titles. I meant that the ones currently on offer are the ones that I don´t like. You then wrote, Captain Falcon: By making deals with the right companies, whom they are assured from the start will not fail in delivering quality-titles to the market. Giving us a far greater portfolio of top quality games to choose from. No more shovelware. I will tell you right now, that I dream of the day where companies like Nintendo buy up other videogame companies that they make their 2. Party suppliers just like they did with Retro Studios. Because then they can exert a much stricter control over how games are made. If Microsoft and Sony started to do so as well, all of the 3. party gamemakers would be forced to deliver much better quality and sales would pick up even more dramatically. And the problem of piracy might be eradicated as well. I think it arose because people felt the games were too expensive and not good enough to pay that much money for (RRP). I was impressed by your knowledge when you wrote this: Gaming piracy has always been what I shun the most. Those who don´t pay for the games, end up hurting the very people who make the games they love to play - for free. How moronic, how hypocritical, how immoral, how stupid. And how glad I am that SEGA is still around, even though as a third party agnostic developer.

Dazzebee, wrote: In what way is my view bizarre and limiting? While I am not likening SEGA´s nightmare to Nintendo, I am saying it could happen to them one day. Could. It´s all about what they do NOW, or what they do NOT do which determines the consumer perception of them in a few years from now. I pray they will make it, but it´s how well they handle the problem of quality or not on their platform which will decide what value they have in the eyes of the consumers. They have some decent titles out now, not that I want to play any of them, but they need to get more of such titles out. I would go as far as to saying that Nintendo needs to rid themselves of the problem of the N64 days with too few good 3. Party titles. Back then, they struggled to meet demand with their own titles. Today, they have no chance in hell to pump out so many of their own titles to make up for the shovelware. So they need to listen to the hardcore gamers and let them decide who the best 3. party companies are and go on from there to make deals with them. And Shino: I am not alone in my view that that is the quality of the games Nintendo released over the past couple of years. I think you are alone in your view that noone but me thinks so.

Emasher, I feel pushed around because as I wrote in the last post Nintendo´s Mario and Zelda was my reason for joining them. Today these franchises are not as good any more as they were. I have bought too many Nintendo consoles, too many of their games. And sold them again. Bought again. Sold again. Because: they did not deliver in the games what I had expected. People do that. Sell their machines when there is nothing for them to play on them. Since with the Playstation 2 and first Xbox there were no games that could come close to the excellence of Nintendo´s own, meet that standard (except perhaps HALO), and since I then and now only want to play their own games on their consoles and not the 3. party titles, I feel pushed around when the only games I want to play dissapoint (!) again and again. Read this: After the awesome Zelda´s on N64 Zelda Wind (girl-) Waker on GameCube was a huge dissapointment. Then I waited a loooong time for the next Zelda, which many including myself begged them to not be with Cellshading. They listened, but the final game was so diluted thanks to time constraints with them having to make the game for two consoles that it was a shock to me. Before the release of the game, I had waited years in great anticipation of that game following all the news I could get about the development of that game. It all looked to become a next-gen OOT. After the awesome Mario 64, Nintendo gave me Super Mario Sunshine which was another huge dissapointment for being so incredibly difficult with a too steep learning curve, and annoying even downright ugly graphics, sprites. And strange half-done Super Mario 64-like levels. I hated that game. Another dissapointment for me was with Mario Galaxy which was simply so strange, with planet-worlds that were way too small to have any significant fun on, and later to get to the better places it got too difficult to my liking. Same with Metroid Prime 2, it was enourmously difficult, not to mention set in a horrible world where even editors at IGN admitted in a review that there were places in it that they dreaded to go to. Retro admitted it was too difficult (EDGE Magazine interview). Prime 3 with an unresponsive Wiimote in crucial places or boss encounters, so that playing through it first I could beat certain bosses, playing through 2. and 3. time I couldn´t. Need I go on? Get my point when saying pushed around? The games that I, me, wanted to play most I could not play. And Dazzybee, I am not saying it is the same for Nintendo now as with SEGA. I used the SEGA example to describe what happens when people go against a game company collectively. Read my post! That is what people in game stores told me was the reason behind their demise. What I heard on the street too. People hated them. Ignored them. I sat on a bus with a newly bought Dreamcast, and all people did was to give the box a quick glance, shrug their shoulders, and continue their prior chat among themselves. It was dead in their minds. It was a very big eye-opener to me. The PS2 was the only point of real interest. And, yes Nintendo will always have some income from Mario, Zelda and Metroid. But they might not be the #1 one day. I wanted them to be the #1 when they were #3 or #2 (people then couldn´t really agree if they were #2 or #3). Now I am not so sure anymore. But they might deliver next time. And they also better do that. Or I am done with them. Next time is the last chance for them with me.

Jammy 2211, wrote: Really? Their strategy might pay off, or might not. I grew up with SEGA, and my first videogame console was a SEGA Megadrive with the action adventure game Alicia Dragoon, which was the greatest experience I had had by then with interactive media. For some years all was well with the flow of games, and it was the no. 1 selling games console in the Europe, but I don´t recall how it sold in the rest of the world. Then things turned around suddenly when SEGA started to push their userbase around with expensive, little utilized, add-ons for the same console things began to slip for them. SEGA 32X I think one of them was called, and it was a disaster with only a handfull of games that utilized it. People became fed up, and SEGA didn´t listen. They kept on not listening. And so the gamer perception with SEGA shifted as people began to look for something else to play on. And lo and behold...Playstation popped up out of the blue, and with so many games that people ran after it, bought it and many games, and laughed all the way home to their livingrooms. When SEGA launched the more powerfull Sega Saturn console, they thought it would get the gamers back. It didn´t. They not only had waited for Sony´s little miracle box instead, it appeared as if they had stayed AWAY from SEGA´s machine even though it launched earlier than the Playstation. I recall all of it clearly. It went even worse when they launched the Dreamcast. Even though better, and more capable with graphics than Playstation 2, with far better games and easier to develope for, it sold only 4 million machines worldwide (or around that figure), and it bankrupted SEGA having paid over half a billion dollars to create it. Almost as much as it cost then to create a new car model. That, my friend, is what people can do to a gaming company, if they for a long time get pushed around too much. They can collectively decide against the one who did it. Word of mouth. It is when I think of SEGA´s nightmare in those days, that this gamer pattern of behaviour springs to mind with regard to Nintendo. Nintendo might end up in that situation one day, should gamer perception shift to being against them. I myself feel pushed around by Nintendo. And while I am not on some mission to destroy them, predict their doom, or anything like that, I just believe that they should be carefull about what they do from now on. My point is this: how many other gamers out there, out of the combined pool of gamers feel pushed around by Nintendo? For that is what will determine if they make it or not as the currently #1 videogames company. I hope they make it, allthough I still sitting around waiting for Super Mario Galaxy 2, and a hopefully much better Zelda than TLP. These types of games are really the very reason why I ever started to play Nintendo games. Can Nintendo cater to all of the various types of gamers they have in their fold, and still keep a decent quality cleaning up and denying access to the shovelware, or not? The next-coming years will show us just that. And by the way, the day that console makers agree in unison to deny access to subpar games on their platforms is going to be a great day for videogaming.

Dazzybee, wrote: Yes, there is such rubbish games on the xbox360, but they´re not so many as on Wii. Not from what I have seen so far. Dazzybee, wrote: Great, that´s good for you. It´s like that with Nintendo, that only they make the Mario´s, the Zelda´s, the Metroids, the Wii Sports etc. Dazzybee, wrote: I never call people abusive names for their opinion. I try to just discuss, if there is any discussion that´s worth the time. And I do think this discussion is most interesting. There are some things I am not familiar with, but I know my stuff too after many years of observing the industry. I do not observe so much the financial aspects of it, but the up´s and downs of the gamequality. That is all that interests me. Finances never was my thing, nor numbers. You also wrote: In what does sales numbers have nothing to do with the quality. Because the light gamers mostly just buy games like mindless robots? Surely, where 1 million copies of a game are sold, or just 100.000 of another, it must reflect the popularity of the games. And I hope the Wii will outsell the others as I am still for Nintendo. But I hope it will outsell because of games that people think are great and will continue to think are great, and which they´ll not suddenly tire of and shelve their machines for that reason.

Goron3, my apologies! And Dazzybee: let the review scores determine hich console has the best games. By shovelware, I mean low budget titles that are half-finished, with crappy graphics, horrible control or a too steep learning curve. Or just uninteresting. That is shovelware. Perhaps not to you, but to me. See, the reason why I ever bought a Nintendo console was that they had some games that were so awesome that nothing in the competition compared. Today, I nolonger think so. They have diluted the quality, and I don´t think I am the only forum member who think so. Not when seeing what others have already said about the issue in this thread. Perhaps you want to call them stupid, too? You seem to hang on to the premise that there is nothing wrong with the Wii´s catalogue of games. And that there is enough for everyone to dive into and play. Let us see what the coming months will bring in the sales numbers. Coming years. I have made my predictions, provided Nintendo do not catch up and stop the trend of 3. party games on their consoles that never quite seem to compare to the quality they, at least so once, were famous for.

Shino wrote: There you have it: Mindblowing. I recall seeing another review board for xbox360 titles a little over a year ago, and I was blown away! So I bought an xbox360 and have not regretted it. Currently playing Banjo-Tooie downloaded in glorious HD remake from Xbox Live. And what a joy it is to behold and play. Throughout the xbox360 gaming library I see mostly great games. On Wii, mostly shovelware as I have said many times. Nintendo has that problem, and if they don´t get their act together, and start giving us more classic titles, they´re might end up being perceived as a second rate console in comparison to Xbox360. This will spell trouble for them as to the gamer perception starting with the next console launch. People might go for Xbox 720 instead or whatever it will be called. It seems as if the grip Nintendo have on the light gamers is starting to slip. Just a feeling. But I think I am not too wrong about it. The winner of the console war this time will likely be Microsoft, if Nintendo do not give us what we want. And that is the same level og gaming excellence they did in the past when their weren´t so many other people in their userbase to cater to. Once I feared that Microsoft would win. Today I am more like focusing on where the games are that I want to play. If they are on Wii. I will go there, and stay there. If they are on Xbox360, I will go there, and stay there. As plain and as simple as that. Who is the best to ensure that great titles continue to come out on their console, and not suddenly dry up? That company is the clear winner of any console war long-term.

Ok, I agree, you wrote that it was Mario Galaxy that was for the Wii crowd. fair enough. The Ice boss, after the room where Samus is attacked by several enemies on the floor. I could not get the damn thing to respond to my command to hold onto his Ice Armour, and rip it off. It kept happening, and so I lost out too many times after which I took the game and sold it. I didn´t care to wait two weeks while some people examine the Wiimote probably only to get back to me saying nothing is wrong with it. It must be a case-by-case problem which is something to do with programming of the Wiimote in the game. Or something with the Wii-mote or sensor bar itself. I guarantee I am not exaggerating. One gamer here at N-europe.com wrote to me I should use exaggerated movements to get it to work. It didn´t. So I got enough. I agree totally. See, the word you used there - dilute! THAT is my problem with Zelda TLP for one game! We´ll see about that. Dazzybee, you quote text in prior posts within a thread by first marking the text with your mouse. Then you click on the QUOTE-button above the reply field (just hold the mouse over the various buttons and you will get a text popping up telling which button is for what). and, voila!: you get it entombed in a quote-field which looks much nicer in replies.

I wrote that it is a question of whether there are enough other titles to satisfy the light gamers to keep them on the platform. Because it is the light gamers who reversed Nintendo´s fortunes in the console war, not the core gamers. And as for Metroid. Well, Metroid has always been, and still is, very hard to play. Retro themselves admitted that Metroid Prime 2, for example, was too difficult (EDGE Magazine interview last year), which was relieving to hear since it was a hell to get through. and it isn´t made better by the fact that in Prime 3 the Wiimote sometimes do not respond when in a boss battle. That puts me off. Make me not want to play anymore. Hard games require spot on controls. The Wiimote is not always that, and in Metroid that is unforgivable because it makes it too frustrating to play, losing ones desire to continue. Nolonger feeling in control. Further, on one hand you write that your non-gamer friends and family elders play Wii Mario Galaxy, but in the same breath you say that that type of games are not for the Wii crowd! You contradict yourself. What are you getting at? Are you reading my posts at all? Try copying the text in my posts, paste it into the reply field so you can see what I wrote while you write your reply. I do that with yours and others. Otherwise, so it seems, you hastily forget what I wrote, probably because previous posts in a thread cannot be seen when replying. You also write that you think Nintendo is doing enough for these new gamers with Wii Sports Resort. My reply: time will tell if they are. Wii Sports Resort is little more than Wii Sports 1.5, and this is probably not enough to keep gamers who perhaps bought the console for only that type of games! I am not a doom monger. I am more like a kind of industry watcher, with a keen desire to keep the best videogame companies out of trouble. In this case, I want Nintendo to avoid repeating their mistakes of the past where they lost their #1 position in videogaming because they stubbornly could, or would not, understand, or care, that they had to make it affordable for developers to make games. Sony won over them because of that with the Playstation 1. So even though profitable, they were nolonger #1 in sales from N64 and forward until Wii. Two console generations where they sat in the shadows, have taught me that nomatter how rosy it looks Nintendo have some inherent ability to make a mess for themselves because of stubbornness. So I am merely watching them now, seeing what they do. Commenting on it, expressing my view on the results of it. Based off of my own experience with what they have done so far in previous console generations. Recently, during the relocation of their US headquarters, they effectively sacked three top employees (giving them no alternative but to move away from their communities, and everything they knew in life, which they all declined) who had been loyal to them for many years. One of these were mocked during her last public conference with Reggie Fils Aimee, by what appeared to be gaming press. I was appalled, and felt very angry with Nintendo for acting in such an outrageous manner. What it all comes down to, is that if Nintendo forget the PEOPLE who made them the #1, they will pay over the karma. And that is where they could land in trouble. Again. I followed them for all of these years, read everything there was to read about the reasons for their previous downfall. With the Wii they improved a lot, but I have a problem with too many shallow games on the platform also known as shovelware. And that is not doom mongering, but cautioning. My verdict so far: They should avoid being perceived as a console for the light gamer, with few AAA titles, and a virtual backcatalogue of honourable but 10-20 year old games. In these times of intense struggles to win over the other gamemaker, it is all about who manages to keep the non-hardcore gamers happy, not the core-gamers. They are there nomatter what they do. So again I repeat: It is up to Nintendo, and the gamers. If you don´t understand me now, either you´re not reading my posts properly or we´re simply not on the same page intellectually here.

Dazzybee, I wrote that it is a question of whether there are enough other titles to satisfy the light gamers to keep them on the platform. That is what I wrote. You misinterprete my post and...you need to get your spelling right too! So try harder yourself, mate. I don´t have any problems.

Captain Falcon wrote: I don´t know what you mean by "PH" but I assume it is Twilight Princess. I did not play NSMB, but for me it was not fun to see how difficult was some of the later challenges in SMG. And then they are now talking about making it even more difficult in the next Galaxy... You claim that most of the masses wouldn´t agree with the points I made. May I ask how you know that? Are you looking at the sales numbers to arrive at that conclusion? My direct experience with gamers on the retail-level is that, apart from hardcoregamers or core gamers, most just want to play something that is not too complicated or difficult to play...or they will either not have the time for it, or they will not like to go on with it as it takes time they don´t have to get good at a game of that type. This was reported in the media a couple of years back around the time where the Wii was launched. Journalists were busy explaining why the Wii was looking to be such a success. One newsarticle (do not recall which or where) mentioned that, say, a dad of a given family has so much to do apart from gaming to maintain the family that he does not have the time to play through games that are too demanding. The article gave a hint that most families wanted to play something which was immediately accessible and not too demanding in the learning curve. Nintendo knew that and had already figured out that something like Wii Sports, and later the balancing board, would be good with such people who would then buy the console. My point is that there must be many people in the masses who never complete games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Zelda TLP because they find them too difficult to play. Nintendo´s history shows that those games were originally made for the hardcore gamers. Gamers who don´t mind a steeper learning curve, and who do have the time to play through them again and again. Now comes the question of whether there then is enough other titles that are so immediately accessible to the people who do not (!) have that much time...or if those titles are appealing enough to them! If not, they will tire of the Wii. As plain and as simple as that. I know people, so I know how quickly these light type of gamer can change his or her priorities. Not saying they might wander off to PS3 or XBOX360. I am saying they might stop playing alltogether! So I repeat: that is all up to Nintendo´s developer teams and the gamers. As for what I mean by saying that Nintendo is not giving enough time to ensure enough content in their classic titles, I do mean that it is a problem. Once Nintendo had long developement cycles, and delivered awesome titles to market. Few, but awesome. Now they have to keep up with a demand which is many times higher, and from where I am looking it appears that they aren´t quite capable of doing that. Yes, they deliver a lot of games to the markets but they are not of the same quality as before. I could see it in Mario Kart. The gold mine level for instance was too barren to my liking, too devoid of life, and overall there were too few new tracks when you consider that only one Mario Kart game come out with each console launch. Another example was in Zelda TLP. People I spoke to in game shops and forums on other sites who had played the previous Zelda´s were openly dissapointed by the barren Hyrule countryside with too few things to see, too few details in general throughout the game which was to me proof of a game rushed to market. There may be other titles where that is seen as well.