Eenuh Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I think I can forgive people, though of course it would depend on what they did. I've never had anything too bad done to me, so I'm not sure yet what I would do if someone for example cheated on me. I'm not sure I could forgive that... But so far I think I've forgiven people for things they've done. I don't really hold any grudges; the only thing is someone broke my trust once and that has never fully recovered I think, even though I forgave them. So I guess like some others, I forgive but I don't always forget (which by the way is not the same as holding grudges or not really forgiving them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 I think I can forgive people, though of course it would depend on what they did. I've never had anything too bad done to me, so I'm not sure yet what I would do if someone for example cheated on me. I'm not sure I could forgive that... But so far I think I've forgiven people for things they've done. I don't really hold any grudges; the only thing is someone broke my trust once and that has never fully recovered I think, even though I forgave them. So I guess like some others, I forgive but I don't always forget (which by the way is not the same as holding grudges or not really forgiving them). If someone makes a mistake or betrays you then your knowledge and understanding of that person is changed. The picture of who they are is drawn in in more detail and so I think that you have to re-access how you feel towards them. It's like having a dog that has bitten you once. You know that you're 90% sure that they won't bite you again but there's still that feeling of risk, that small chance which leaves you a bit unsure. I don't like that feeling and after a time I have to let go. It tires me out all that grey area stuff. On a seperate note, I'm quite worried about how personally everyone takes things that happen to them here. It doesn't even seem like most of the betrayals that people are talking about have even been examined properly. I wonder if those people consider how the other person feels? Why they came to doing what they did or even if they meant to do it. Take 'wolf for instance. I know you summarised but did you ever really think about why your friend pushed you away? Would you have felt the same way if you were given the information that she had at the time? Was she a different person in reality to the one in your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 When i got a kick in the teeth from Moogle (which was an 'accident') i forgave him fairly soon after (well it took me a day or so to get rid of the urge to punch him, but thats not the same thing) You punched me in the balls twice and threw my bag in the bin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jav_NE Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Women dont forgive. They say they do but they just hold on to it until you've forgotten, then they'll dish it out in a future argument to discredit you. I know their game! Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it, they have the memory of elephants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 You punched me in the balls twice and threw my bag in the bin. And then i forgave you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Take 'wolf for instance. I know you summarised but did you ever really think about why your friend pushed you away? Would you have felt the same way if you were given the information that she had at the time? Was she a different person in reality to the one in your mind? As I said we drifted apart, but for some reason as things were getting back on track, then she pushed me away, I could possibly have understood if it was while we were drifting through neithers fault, although there was still no need for it. Which is why it left me so confused I didn't have a different person in my head, at the end of the day she was my friend whether we talked every day or every month, and I was as nice as I could be to her. She was a generally nice person and was nice to hang out with. Just a shame she decided to be a bitch right at the end ^_^. ps. and no I wouldn't have pushed her away if it was the other way round, there was no need to, it sounds easy to say, but to me there wasn't anything until she mentioned it that day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 Yeah but people do things for reasons. From the sounds of it she had been talking to someone else about you, that's what suddenly sparked the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Yeah but people do things for reasons. From the sounds of it she had been talking to someone else about you, that's what suddenly sparked the change. Possibly, I miss her alot, just as I do with other friends that people have told me that I shouldn't miss because of the way they acted. But it's happened now and I have new friends, she at least made my first year of college pleasant, something to remember. So I don't hate her, I used to, alot, but now it's just something that's happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 But it's happened now and I have new friends, she at least made my first year of college pleasant, something to remember. So I don't hate her, I used to, alot, but now it's just something that's happened. Ah so I guess you have forgiven her in the end... sad story 'wolf. I had a guy at school who was fun to be around and someone who was very stimulating as a personality (my favourite kind of people) but he would fuck up a lot and do really bad things every now and again. I would be good friends with him for a year and then stay away form him for a year and back and forth. In our last days at school together he did something really bad at my 18th bday and he wasn't even very sorry about it. Later he realised how sorry he was and I did forgive him eventually but this just tipped the balance. I realised that he did do bad things on a regular basis and although he's not a bad guy I just didn't want to be friends with him. I couldn't. It was a matter of self preservation and damage limitation. I don't want someone that distructive in my life, no matter how much good they bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Ah so I guess you have forgiven her in the end... sad story 'wolf. I had a guy at school who was fun to be around and someone who was very stimulating as a personality (my favourite kind of people) but he would fuck up a lot and do really bad things every now and again. I would be good friends with him for a year and then stay away form him for a year and back and forth. In our last days at school together he did something really bad at my 18th bday and he wasn't even very sorry about it. Later he realised how sorry he was and I did forgive him eventually but this just tipped the balance. I realised that he did do bad things on a regular basis and although he's not a bad guy I just didn't want to be friends with him. I couldn't. It was a matter of self preservation and damage limitation. I don't want someone that distructive in my life, no matter how much good they bring. I knew someone like that and our friendship kinda dissolved by itself. Sad but then people like that do tend to bring destruction into yer life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 The things people do eh? Ah Jamba! Nobody should ruin a birthday! My story isn't that sad, people have endured worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 The things people do eh? Ah Jamba! Nobody should ruin a birthday! My story isn't that sad, people have endured worse. Nah he didn't ruin it, we kind of found out afterwards but still the memory is attached and every time I see him in the photos of that night I do secretly wish that I could PK Fire his ass into charcoal from a distance. But yeah, that's me kinda hating him back then not hating him now. Does that make any sense? Also, glad to see that this discussion has fleshed out . I was worried by the first page that there wasn't going to be much of a discussion just very , very condensed opinions being thrown around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Nah he didn't ruin it, we kind of found out afterwards but still the memory is attached and every time I see him in the photos of that night I do secretly wish that I could PK Fire his ass into charcoal from a distance. But yeah, that's me kinda hating him back then not hating him now. Does that make any sense? Also, glad to see that this discussion has fleshed out . I was worried by the first page that there wasn't going to be much of a discussion just very , very condensed opinions being thrown around. Haha the problem is with myself that I find myself very easily swayed by people's opinions, so in the matter of a day I could infact grab somebody elses opinion instead of my own. I don't actually do it on purpose, these things tend to happen, which is why each time I've wrote something recently on n-e I've looked at it about four times and re-wrote it at least twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 If someone makes a mistake or betrays you then your knowledge and understanding of that person is changed. The picture of who they are is drawn in in more detail and so I think that you have to re-access how you feel towards them. It's like having a dog that has bitten you once. You know that you're 90% sure that they won't bite you again but there's still that feeling of risk, that small chance which leaves you a bit unsure. I don't like that feeling and after a time I have to let go. It tires me out all that grey area stuff. So are you saying that you try to forget as well as forgive? Mistakes and betrayal are like anything else, a way of learning more about someone — including yourself. I won't forget when someone has wronged me in a meaningful manner as their actions paint who they are, tell me more about the person I'm interacting with. But remembering something and holding it against someone are, as Eenuh said, different things. I'll try to give an example. In secondary school I was a rather decent 100m sprinter. I could quite regularly come first in my year, and I think I might have set a new school record at one point. Anyway, I was a pretty good at it. One day I came across a friend that I'd known for about 10 years standing in the empty playground with one other boy. I said hi, we shared pleasantries, and then he asked me to sprint to the other end of playground. I didn't see why he wanted me to do that, but I shrugged and did as he asked; we were pre-school friends, after all. Of course when I got back to them they were both laughing at me, commenting on how stupid I looked when I ran. Should have seen that one coming, huh? Needless to say at the time what my friend did was a bit of a crushing blow. In fact I still feel uncomfortable if I run. I used to sprint everywhere, but now I'm much more restrained; a brisk walk is about as far as I'll go. Of course I remember, and I still think it was a really crappy thing to do, but I forgave that person a long time ago. He isn't my friend any more, but that was his choice; indeed he took the piss out of me to impress the new crowd he wanted to hang around with. In school it seems the majority of people are desperate to be popular, so I can see why he did what he did. Besides, I'm sure he didn't realise the lasting effect it would have on me; it was just a joke in his eyes. If a met him today I wouldn't hold that day against him — I doubt he even remembers it — but I can't forget it. It helped make me who I am, for better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Sorry for writing a book. But wondered what people's perspectives on such an event might be. How would you have handled it? It doesn't really matter now and it's all done and dusted. Do you guys have "friends" like this? I would have handled it the same as you, there's not enough alcohol in the world to make racism funny and if they had laughed whilst I was shouting at them, I probably would have hit them, so you probably handled it better than I would have! I think that you did what you thought was appropriate at the time as we all would and that the other person was in the right to apologise (the friend of a friend). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 See I might make jokes and that and sometimes I'll go too far. If I realise I've done it I'll apologize. But I would never wrong somebody without good reason to. So if somebody does something to me then I'll try to see why they did it. If they didn't mean to hurt me and they are sorry then I will forgive them. But if they don't care that they've hurt me or they had no reason to do so then I can't forgive them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 But wondered what people's perspectives on such an event might be. How would you have handled it? It doesn't really matter now and it's all done and dusted. Do you guys have "friends" like this? I think you had to teach that person that their actions have consequences. He wasn't sorry for all the trouble he caused you; he didn't want your forgiveness. That doesn't mean you should hate him forever based on that one night and never give them another chance, but if he doesn't learn from those mistakes then I see no reason to accept him back into your life. I don't like football so I don't watch it. I've no need of it in my life, but that doesn't mean I despise the sport and want it scoured from the face of the earth, if you see what I'm getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluey Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I'm quite an easy-going guy and it takes quite a pretty big thing to get me furious about something. There's some good posts in this thread. Me, I feel that if someone makes a mistake because of poor judgement or just being an idiot at the time, then, providing they're sorry and I suppose to a certain extent can "prove" that they are then it's fine. We all do stupid things at times without thinking and I would never consider myself an exception to that! i feel pretty much the same ~ but that being said i find it much easier to forgive people who have done me wrong through idiocy or poor judgement than i do to forgive myself for the same kind of mistakes. it's weird... in most cases i find it easy to forgive, but trusting that person again takes a little time to naturally rebuild itself ~ i think that's just part of the process....but when it's a case of ME fucking up ..oops... sorry... family forum when its a case of ME messing up, i find it reasonably easy to trust myself again because i know how bad i feel because of my actions ~ thus i wont be repeating them.. but forgiving myself takes time. especially when i've hurt someone else with my stupidity. that being said just because i trust myself doesnt mean i'd expect the person i fucked over to trust me again so readily. that's really presumptuous and unrealistic. time makes change, change takes time etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 i feel pretty much the same ~ but that being said i find it much easier to forgive people who have done me wrong through idiocy or poor judgement than i do to forgive myself for the same kind of mistakes. I'm with bluey, especially here, its very hard to forgive yourself. Especially when it hurts someone you love. But if you truely love someone, and its not a "crime" that they did with bad intentions (ie was an HONEST mistake) then its easy to forgive. And cheating will NEVER come under this category. To a point you shouldn't forget, but bringing it up constantly isn't the best way to approach it. Forgive, but if they fuck up again, its over. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookiablo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Aye, forgiving oneself can be very hard to do. I found that when I was in my late teens. Acted like a right little tosser towards my parents at times and looking back on it you do wish you could change it! But such is life! Saying that it has taught me to behave better and I treat my parents with the upmost respect now (not to say that I didn't have any respect whatsoever before, I suppose I was just rather arrogant!). The good thing about having difficulty forgiving yourself I find is that you usually end up taking more from a bad experience and applying it in future scenarios positively. Cheers for the feedback on my first post by the way, again it wasn't needed but it's interesting to see what people who don't know you and therefore probably won't just say things to please you, think of your actions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Aye, forgiving oneself can be very hard to do. I found that when I was in my late teens. Acted like a right little tosser towards my parents at times and looking back on it you do wish you could change it! But such is life! Saying that it has taught me to behave better and I treat my parents with the upmost respect now (not to say that I didn't have any respect whatsoever before, I suppose I was just rather arrogant!). The good thing about having difficulty forgiving yourself I find is that you usually end up taking more from a bad experience and applying it in future scenarios positively. Cheers for the feedback on my first post by the way, again it wasn't needed but it's interesting to see what people who don't know you and therefore probably won't just say things to please you, think of your actions! I'm pretty sure every parent goes through it... I appreciate my parents so much cause they stuck by me recently, and when i need them I know they are there =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I'll forgive people for small things, but if its something big I may just hold a grudge forever. Especially if the person isn't really that important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 So are you saying that you try to forget as well as forgive? Mistakes and betrayal are like anything else, a way of learning more about someone — including yourself. I won't forget when someone has wronged me in a meaningful manner as their actions paint who they are, tell me more about the person I'm interacting with. But remembering something and holding it against someone are, as Eenuh said, different things. I'll try to give an example. I know what you mean and I kind of feel the same way. But I need to be able to forget it to a certain level. I feel emotions very strongly and deeply to the point where I often get totally lost in them. So if someone betrays or wrongs me I find it hard to not be enveloped by it because it's done so it never really goes away. It drives me mental and get's me down and I feel tired cos I'm playing over and over again. I need to be able to forget it enough to be able to move on and free myself, to heal and to be able to live my life again. I will never completely forget though. As you pointed out, those kind of incidents are corner stones in your life, they define who you are and how you respond to people. Also, welcome to Pookiablo! Glad to have you aboard. If I was in your shoes, I don't think that I would have been so diplomatic with my "friend". I think the hammer would have come down hard and although I may have come to understand and to some extent forgive him for what he did, it wouldn't stop me thinking that he was a c**k for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Funnily enough, the same day I threw them out, Karma did seem to take revenge on them for me - it really did make me believe that such a thing exists. My friend managed to crash his car (no serious injury), get caught speeding at 70mph in a 30mph zone because he didn't realise there were restrictions in place (subsequently losing his licence instantly) and then when he got to the next university he was going to, his car got clamped. Was well chuffed with that result, even if a little mean! haha, sometimes I've noticed this little thing call karma, whether it be turned towards myself or somebody else. It makes you wonder if there's any need to forgive somebody when you know something else is going to sort it all out for you, in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 haha, sometimes I've noticed this little thing call karma, whether it be turned towards myself or somebody else. It makes you wonder if there's any need to forgive somebody when you know something else is going to sort it all out for you, in a way. I wish karma would work in my favour. I get nothing but shit upon. I wonder what I did in a past life to have a crippling disease in my teens. BUT I'm still surviving and I'm relatively happy. Which is probably the most important thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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