Hellfire Posted April 29, 2008 Posted April 29, 2008 You guys are forgetting about Mario Sunshine! What's awesome about Chrono Trigger is that the story itself is great, but it has so much deep hidden things, it's just mindblowing.
Jonnas Posted April 29, 2008 Posted April 29, 2008 You guys are forgetting about Mario Sunshine! ....Are you serious? That was too basic for a normal game, and far too elaborate for a Mario game.
Mr. Bananagrabber Posted April 29, 2008 Posted April 29, 2008 Every day of my life I try to forget Mario Sunshine.
Dan_Dare Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 I thought the set up for sunshine was fucking hilarious. the court scene made me chuckle like a reet goon. but it's like gaggle said- nintendo don't do plots, they do characters. anyway, surely GTA 4 just blazed right to the top of the story pile? I've barely gotten started but my god the writing! the animation! the sound! It just raised the bar again for the entire industry and it doesn't even look like they found it hard.
The-chosen-one Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 to me the best story is still every legend of zelda game
Hellfire Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 I know we just talked about this in the PoP thread, but you're posts are becoming increasingly ridiculous dan. C'mon, shape up, your bday is the same as mine! You're embarassing me! Zelda stories are exactly what they are, they're not intended to be very deep and thought out, but the characters, the room for speculation, the connection between games among other things, make Zelda stories very cool on a completly different standard than other games. I'm glad they don't try to turn Zelda stories' into a FF or any other game, I want them to remain simple, yet more memorable than most games out there. Also, I was being sarcastic about Sunshine, wake up people.
Dan_Dare Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 But they're not good stories. They're good set ups for the standard progression which is what Nintendo do pretty well. It's not even really a problem with the series (it has far worse, but that's another thread) but there's just no way they belong in any discussion of good game stories when you compare it to Hl2, Prince of Persia or GTA4. It's a ridiculous comparison.
Hellfire Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 You're the one who's comparing them, a story is worth for the way it touches people and stays with them, everything else is accessory.
Guest Jordan Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 I have to agree with Dan. Although Zelda's story is told well, it doesn't mean its a particularly good storyline... if you get me.
Dan_Dare Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Exactly. It's well done enough, and does a servicable job (unlike some of the dross in the other thread) but it's just not in the same league as the other stuff in here. also: the same plot 7 odd times or whatever is really fucking pushing it, let's be honest...
Hellfire Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 The only people who say the plots are the same are the people who don't pay attention to the story or the details. There is a parelellism yes (intentionally), but the same? No. Try to understand, I'm not saying the story is in the same league as, say a Killer 7. It's just that both try to do completly different things and Zelda does what it's set out to do: it's simple and memorable and if you try to fit the timeline together and pay attention to the details you'll find that it's a very interesting storyline. Again, no comparison, Zelda is Zelda, it's different from the rest, but saying it's shit is just not right. There's a reason why I didn't put it with the main part of my "list", but it deserves a mention. Also, Prince of Persia? oO
gaggle64 Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Zelda is it what it says it is: a legend. That is, a story which is retold again and again with variations on theme. Try to look at each Zelda game in the fullness of their medium, which is often very visual: the medieval emphasis of LTTP, the happy child and obliterated adult worlds of OOT, the bright Caribbean spirit of WW and the dark, playful surrealism of TP. It's story is often as much in the detail and mood of it's dungeons and environments as it is in it's plot, characters and dialogue. Games are a definitively visual medium, and sometimes I find are best approached like an interactive painting, rather than a movie or book.
Jamba Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Haha... I love it how people are rushing to defend Zelda "story". We are talking about the story alone not the game and although the way that that story is told may be good its still a piss poor story. It's the most bland combination of "coming of age" + "hero" stories that I've ever seen. But lets face it, I am talking about the "conventional" Zelda games, so in contrast I must say well done to LoZ: LA and LoZ: MM for actually doing a very good job.
Athriller Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 It's the most bland combination of "coming of age" + "hero" stories that I've ever seen. But lets face it, I am talking about the "conventional" Zelda games, so in contrast I must say well done to LoZ: LA and LoZ: MM for actually doing a very good job. I'll agree with you on Majora's Mask, but Link's Awakening I'm not so sure on. It's my second favourite Zelda game and I love it to bits, but can you really forgive 'looooool it's all a dream :awesome: :awesome: :awesome: '? Whilst we're here, I'm surprised no one's mentioned Battletoads Vs. Double Dragon. The game itself is awesome but the story is where it's at. 3 Humanoid toads and 2 martial experts all team up to save the universe from a big fat rat man, a big fat black man, some crazy ass space robot, Shredder from TNMT, an Arnold Schwarzenegger wannabe with a machine gun and some crazy dominatrix that wants to blow up Earth. Find me another game that encompasses 'HOLY SHIT' and 'FUCK YEAH' so well.
Jamba Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 I'll agree with you on Majora's Mask, but Link's Awakening I'm not so sure on. It's my second favourite Zelda game and I love it to bits, but can you really forgive 'looooool it's all a dream :awesome: :awesome: :awesome: '? Oh yeah sure but lets get things in perspective. I don't remember many computer games out at the time that were ready to get metaphysical on their own story. It's not so much a dream anyway, more like a coma.
Hellfire Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 It's not rushing to defend anything, it's an opinion, jeez. I could say you're rushing to attack it :P I think it's the less bland combination of coming of age+hero story, because, let's face it, most other stories of the type seem taken from a generic anime. I'd like to see games with "piss poor" stories with so many memorable characters and speculation and theories about the storylines. And about LA, at that time there weren't a lot of "it's a dream" stories. Not to mention that it's not the fact that it's a dream, it's the fact that you were inside someone else's dream and all that you did basically destroyed everyone you met in the game just so that you could get out of the dream and the whale could wake up. Seems kinda selfish. Just like in MM, if you look at the story from afar it seems crap "Oh shit, the moon's gonna destroy the world, I gotta go back in time constantly to stop it", but after playing it and paying attention, knowing all the characters and relations make it great. The way the story is told is very important to me, for example, most people couldn't make a story out of HL1+HL2 (hence why Valve put Alyx constantly in the episodes, it's easier to understand), but if you really pay attention to things, it's a really, really good story I loved that, just like Metroid doesn't have that much of a story, but the details included on the scans make it engrossing. On the flipside, MGS3 has a great story, 98% of which is told in the last cutscene and the whole game is riddled with ridiculous characters. And MGS2 is just a mess of trying to shove philosophy down your throat. MGS though, managed an awesome balance of great story and great story telling. SotC, doesn't have that much of a story but the way it's (not) told, the bond with the (2) characters and the speculation it allows is what makes me like it. My point is, I can like a game's story for various reasons.
Jamba Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 speculation and theories about the storylines. Just because the series is popular and the majority of people are idiots doesn't make the fact that speculation = good. The fact that the story is told again and again confuses the audience so they try and look for a way to link them together into a chain, one after the other. Maybe one of the reasons they are doing this is because they love the game very deeply but they are making speculations due to the lack or story. My point is, I can like a game's story for various reasons. Well that's fine but I'm trying to seperate the story from the game and look at that alone. You're not doing that and hence why we have differing opinions (which even if you did, we would probably still have).
Hellfire Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Ah, so you know everything and can tap into my head and know that I am not separating the story from the game, despite showing similar examples and explaining everything in all my posts? Oh and apparently I'm an idiot. Poor me I'm not a cool guy, because I like almost everything Nintendo does, don't worry Jamba, one day I'll be as cool as you and people on the internet won't think I'm a fanboy. That will be awesome. I just hope I can have an almighty inteligence like yours, so that my opinion will turn to fact. Get off your high horse and let people have their fucking opininons. (I know, generic rage, I felt like it :P)
Deathjam Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Ah, so you know everything and can tap into my head and know that I am not separating the story from the game, despite showing similar examples and explaining everything in all my posts? Oh and apparently I'm an idiot. Poor me I'm not a cool guy, because I like almost everything Nintendo does, don't worry Jamba, one day I'll be as cool as you and people on the internet won't think I'm a fanboy. That will be awesome. I just hope I can have an almighty inteligence like yours, so that my opinion will turn to fact.Get off your high horse and let people have their fucking opininons. (I know, generic rage, I felt like it :P) I have nothing more to say other than lol
Jamba Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Get off your high horse and let people have their fucking opininons. (I know, generic rage, I felt like it :P) Pot calling kettle-black me-thinks? I'm sorry if I challenge your opinions or views but all I'm trying to do is compare our opinions on the same playing field instead of having a discussion that last ages and result in finding out nothing. I'm trying to ask you about your views on storylines as purely stories, not as the way they are presented, or in parts by looking at the characters individually and the like. Insulting me by claiming that I'm on my "high horse" is just a pathetic expression of your frustration about this conversation and so I'm just going to ignore it. If it's not and you actually have a problem with me then you don't have to reply to what I'm saying. I can have a decent discussion with Pedro, shame I can't with you.
Tellyn Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 personally i thought tetris had a great storyline... In a world ravaged by famine, disease and war, our only hope lies in...
Hellfire Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 The discussion was actually pretty decent until you said that people that speculate on Zelda stories are idiots, meaning I'm an idiot and assumed that you know how I formed my opinion, despite the fact that I explained everything To me, someone who makes this kind of posts is indeed, on a high horse and I'm not taking that back (specially because the original post I was typing really was offensive and there was no reason for that lol) From my first post here, I explained the reasons why I think the Zelda story has its merits, yet you just assume I'm doing it because I'm not separating the game and the story and assume that I would say the same (because I'm a fanboy obviously, rushing to defend Zelda) anyway. Did you even bother reading my posts? " Killer 7, Eternal Darkness, Half Life games, MGS, Grim Fandango, Chrono Trigger and Max Payne 1 & 2." This was my main list of games with great stories, the others I explained more than once why I liked them, because I like them for different qualities than the normal standart for judging a different story. After explaining things so many times and saying that to me a story isn't just about storyline and then seeing a post like yours, like I didn't write anything before, it's kinda irritating. And no, I don't have anything against you, nor am I trying to flame or insult or anything, but I can't stand when people ignore when I post my (or anyone else's) reasonings. LIke you said: "I'm trying to ask you about your views on storylines as purely stories, not as the way they are presented, or in parts by looking at the characters individually and the like." and in my posts I always said that storylines alone aren't a story at all, the way it's told is incredibly important to the story, which is why I said in my first post that Zelda didn't have a deep story (thus I don't think it's one of the series with best stroies), but I love the way it's told, the characters and the speculation (I know, I'm an idiot). EDIT: I think it's enough for this discussions, our points have been made and I hope you weren't insulted, but it's easy to see where I'm coming from when I said that.
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