Battlestar Galactica Season 4

[Mokong]

 

A brilliant episode. Tom Zarek tried to be a politician and convince everyone that he actually was one and in the end proved to be a terrorist like he used to be before the war. I like how this played out.

I was wondering what Adama would do with Zarek and Gaeta. I actually didn't expect him to have them executed. Especially because he was sitting on the same spot only hours before and didn't get much of a trial either, yet he reacted in the same way.

 

Yeah, but I think Mutiny(sp?) and murder qualifies for a fast track military trial more than the crap Felix was trying to pin on Adama... they could have had a trail for all we know, they maybe just didn't show it

 

[Konfucius]

Yeah, but I think Mutiny(sp?) and murder qualifies for a fast track military trial more than the crap Felix was trying to pin on Adama... they could have had a trail for all we know, they maybe just didn't show it

 

That is a good point.

Still I think if Felix and Tom had won then killing Adama would have been justified from the peoples perspective as well because of things like collaboration.

 

[jayseven]

Not the roller-coaster ride of zomg that the show's been since the break, but still a good episode furthering the story.

 

Now a 13th skin job, Daniel. Was it me or was he described like the hallucinations Baltar and wossername had (of each other)? Should we entirely write off this 'Daniel'?

 

I've never been a big fan of the character of Ellen, but this motherly figure is easier to sympthise with. I wonder where boomer's taken her!

 

And BSG to get a skin job? Awesome.

 

[Ashley]

lol Dan is a cylon. I knew it! Didn't Ellen say Daniel was artistic though, which is something we never saw of Baltar (did we...?) I'd imagine if he was artistic he would have loads of smutty drawings of Six knocking around.

 

And yeah it was a slower paced episode but an interesting look at the idea of blaming your maker for your imperfections.

 

I love Kara's inferiority complex, its really well executed. Although I'd imagine she'd get a bit pissed off that the other three aren't there to support Sam, they're there to pump him for info. Bit disrespectful.

 

[Konfucius]

This episode was awesome. The Cylon backstory just cries for the Gods of Kobol to appear in one shape or another - Kara maybe?

It was really interesting to see the conflict between John and Ellen. Especially when Ellen said something like "I love all my children the way they are" and "we gave you free will" I saw a strong analogy to Christianity with Ellen representing God and the Skinjobs Humanity. Also she created the Skinjobs after her own image, reminds me of Genesis too.

 

I wonder if all of this has happened before and all of it will happen again means exactly that. The Gods of Kobol created the Tribes, there was a war, they left. The 12 Tribes created the "toaster" Cylons, there was a war, only this time the Tribes left. The final five created the "skinjob" Cylons and there is some sort of conflict there too now.

In all three cases the creation fights the creator.

 

[Ashley]

Someone else's interpretation:

 

* The original Cylons were created on Kobol well over 3,000 years ago. According to the podcast, the Lords of Kobol were not happy about this and exiled the 13th Tribe into space. At this time the Cyons had resurrection tech.

 

* On their way to Earth, the 13th Tribe briefly stopped at the Algae Planet and built the Temple of Hopes. They prayed for guidance and received clues or a vision that led them on to Earth. But who did they pray to? If the Lords of Kobol had just kicked them off Kobol, they probably weren't too happy with them. Was it the one rebellious Lord, the 'one whose name cannot be spoken'? He/she may have not have supported the actions of the other Lords of Kobol. Or does the fact that RDM deleted all references to the Lords of Kobol mean that that's not part of the answer?

 

* A key moment that may have slipped some by: Ellen says that the 13th Tribe backtracked their way to Earth. I wouldn't be surprised that this was a hint (maybe the only one we'll get) that humanity originated on Earth hundreds of thousands of years ago and Earth is the true human homeworld. Or, Ellen meant that the Final Five revisited the Temple when they backtracked their way from Earth to find the 12 Colonies. This bit is unclear.

 

* At some point the 13th Tribe nailed the ability to procreate. Resurrection technology was abandoned in favour of procreation.

 

* The Final Five - Anders, Tyrol, Tigh, Ellen and Tory - were scientists trying to recreate resurrection technology. Tyrol contributed a lot of work, but Ellen made the breakthrough.

 

* Forewarned of the coming holocaust, the Final Five gave themselves the 'organic memory transfer' technology and put a ship in orbit with resurrection chambers on board. When the holocaust took place, they resurrected on the orbiting vessel. Presumably every other Cylon on Earth died.

 

* The holocaust on Earth and the exiling of the 12 Tribes from Kobol happened almost simultaneously, 2,000 years ago. It's unclear if these events were linked. If the Lords of Kobol exiled the humans for creating the Cylons, it's unclear why they waited 1,000+ years before doing so.

 

* The Final Five realised that the cycle would perpetuate, so they chose to warn the Twelve Colonies not to create AI, or if they did to treat it well. They didn't have jump drives, so travelled subluminally to the Colonies. At relativistic speeds it took them almost 2,000 years to reach the Colonies, although only a few months or years passed for them. Presumably, not knowing the 12 Tribes had abandoned Kobol, they went via Kobol and then followed the colonists to the Twelve Colonies.

 

* Note that this puts the Colonies less than 2,000 light-years from Earth (going via Kobol), contradicting the distances given in Rapture (which says that the distance from the Algae Planet to the Ionian Nebula, which were merely two pit-stops on the way to Earth, was a massive 13,000 ly).

 

* In the podcast RDM makes it clear that he didn't want BSG's backstory to crash into CAPRICA's, and make things on one show not track with the other. For this reason, the backstory of BSG is mostly concerned with the Final Five and the skinjobs. The backstory of the mechanical Cylons and how they 'found God' is left for CAPRICA to explore.

 

* The Final Five arrived at the Colonies 40 years ago to find a war between the mechanical Cylons and the humans already in progress. The mechanical Cylons had already found God and wanted to recreate themselves in humanity's image, but their experiments with the Hybrids were not going anywhere. The Final Five agreed to help them out on the understanding they stop the war against the humans. The Cylons agreed.

 

* The Final Five and the mechanical Cylons settled 'a colony', presumably beyond the armistice line, and there created the first skinjob, John Cavil. Cavil helped them build the other models: Leoben, D'Anna, Simon, Doral, Six, Daniel and Sharon.

 

* Cavil didn't want to be human, but wanted to be the best machine he possibly could be. In a fit of jealousy he destroyed the Daniel model (#7), contaminating the copied bodies so he could not resurrect.

 

* It is unclear if there were eight humanoid models planned from the start, or if Sharon was introduced only after the entire Daniel line was destroyed. Ellen suspected Cavil was responsible for the Daniels' destruction.

 

* The Five built the Resurrection Hub, but did not pass on the secrets of how it was built to Cavil. The Resurrection Hub is therefore irreplaceable, unless the Final Five choose to rebuild it.

 

* Cavil orchestrated an insurrection against the Final Five. He killed them by trapping them in a compartment and suffocating them to death. After resurrecting them, he blocked their memories and put them in the Colonies to see the greed and self-destructive streak of humanity up close. He then began building the Cylon war machine.

 

* The attack on the Colonies was launched (Cavil claims to have voted against the original attack back in the Season 2 finale, but based on recently revelations this was probably BS) and humanity was reduced to the 50,000 survivors in the Fleet. However, fate, destiny or whatever had led four of the Final Five to survive in the Fleet. Cavil himself ensured that Ellen escaped. Cavil wanted the Five to acknowledge they were wrong and he was right, and was unwilling to kill them until he had that validation.

 

From commentor Adam Whitehead: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-.html

 

[Mokong]

Yep, good episode alright.

 

Not as action packed awesomness as the previous two but still great. Finally learning about those final 5 is awesome. And Ellen is still alive... I wonder what Saul will do if he mets her again.. and what Ellens reaction will be to Saul getting the 6 pregnant.

 

And they've gone and revealed this new 13th Human-Form Cylon, "Daniel"

 

Could this be someone we met before...does this truely rule Starbuck out as a Cylon?

 

 

I've been trying to google around for info, some people are thinking it could be possible Daniel was Starbucks father?

 

One important bit of info about Daniel that was mentioned was that he was an artist, and Starbuck has been known to have been painting/drawing since she was a kid... and even her herself unaware of how she knew how to... plus she was able to paint clues to the road to Earth, like the supernova.

 

Could this be a cylon genetic memory from her Cylon father?

 

Could also explain in part how she came back to life and found "her dead body" on Earth, assuming Cylon or Cylon-Human (who knows she could be either) offspring can resurrect.

 

The only part left in question is how did she resurrect, like is there a resurrection ship floating round Earth that BSG crew didn't see when they were there? And where did she get her new (yet "same") Viper from?

 

Kinda hope that's not it though as I liked the theory that she could unknowingly be one of the Gods... if not the actual Cylon God

 

I think a good place to look would be the Baseship Hybrids... i've tried to find their quotes, found some but doubt I got them all. Here's what I have and some of it is quite interesting looking back on it.

 

Hybrid:From Razor:"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity. And in the midst of their confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in the shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know emnity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many. And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of the angel - - not an end, but a beginning. "

 

It starts off with describing the 4 of the 5 remembering... but I can't figure out if the "he will find her" refers to something that already happened? Who is "he" and who is "her"?

 

Then "the fith" is mentioned... Ellen, and from that it seems like when she comes back some bad shit is gonna happen.

 

Then "the seven now six", is this refering to Daniel? and what does it mean? Could it be that the first "Daniel" model that was made before the rest were destroyed in their "maturing tanks".. could it be he downloaded himself into the body of a Six?

 

And the last line "promised land, gathered on the wings of the angel - - not an end, but a beginning." to me this reads like everyone is gonna die in the last episode, like the promised land is "heaven".

 

Hybrid: S04E06:Faith:"All these thing at once and many more. Not because it wishes harm, but because it like violent vibrations to change constantly. Then shall the maidens rejoice at the dance. Structural integrity of node seven restored. Repressurizing. The children of the one reborn shall find their own country. The intruders swarmed like flame. Like the whirlwind. Hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our hulls.

"

 

The "one reborn", could be referring to Ellen and "the children" the Skin Jobs she helped make. That seems like the only plot sensitive part of the quote though... or is it, that first part of it, seems like it could be a metaphor for something but can't place it.

 

Hybrid: S04E06:Faith:"But you are a spark of God's fire... core update complete... "

 

I can't find out who the Hybrid was talking to with this line, but if it's Starbuck, it could mean something?

 

These are the only quotes I could find that could have clues/hints

 

[Konfucius]

That reminds me

 

Wasn't there one episode when a hybrid grabbed Starbuck's arm and told her she would destroy everything?

 

[Mokong]

 

* On their way to Earth, the 13th Tribe briefly stopped at the Algae Planet and built the Temple of Hopes. They prayed for guidance and received clues or a vision that led them on to Earth. But who did they pray to? If the Lords of Kobol had just kicked them off Kobol, they probably weren't too happy with them. Was it the one rebellious Lord, the 'one whose name cannot be spoken'? He/she may have not have supported the actions of the other Lords of Kobol. Or does the fact that RDM deleted all references to the Lords of Kobol mean that that's not part of the answer?

 

I remember reading that at one point in Kobol's history one of the Lords/Gods began to desire to want to be worshipped above all others, this rebel Lord could more than likely also be the Cylon God, so that would be who they prayed to

 

 

 

 

I just rewatched, Ellen actually says "We backtracked the path of our ancestors" which would mean the final 5 backtracked the path of the 13th Tribe... the 13th Tribe were't backtracking anyone

 

 

 

That reminds me

 

Wasn't there one episode when a hybrid grabbed Starbuck's arm and told her she would destroy everything?

 

Yes that was also S04E06:Faith... I didn't quote it cuz I was trying to relate things to Cylons and Daniel

 

It was also mentioned by the Hybrid at the end of BSG: Razor

 

* A key moment that may have slipped some by: Ellen says that the 13th Tribe backtracked their way to Earth. I wouldn't be surprised that this was a hint (maybe the only one we'll get) that humanity originated on Earth hundreds of thousands of years ago and Earth is the true human homeworld. Or, Ellen meant that the Final Five revisited the Temple when they backtracked their way from Earth to find the 12 Colonies. This bit is unclear.

 

[Ashley]

I remember reading that at one point in Kobol's history one of the Lords/Gods began to desire to want to be worshipped above all others, this rebel Lord could more than likely also be the Cylon God, so that would be who they prayed to

 

 

 

 

something tells me that was the original series but i may be wrong

[Mokong]

 

Then "the seven now six", is this refering to Daniel? and what does it mean? Could it be that the first "Daniel" model that was made before the rest were destroyed in their "maturing tanks".. could it be he downloaded himself into the body of a Six?

 

I just realised that the "seven, now six" refers to the original 7 known Cylon Human-Forms, and the "now six" means when the Number 3's were all boxes, it of course reduced the number from 7 to 6.

 

haha, in my desire to try figure something out about "Daniel" I started to see signs where there were none... though hopefully i was on the right track with the others

 

 

something tells me that was the original series but i may be wrong

 

Considering I still cling to "Frack" which was from the original that may be true... if only I can remember where I read it... or did I hear it somewhere? Ggggrrr.. this is annoying me now, haha

[Tales]

I just realised that the "seven, now six" refers to the original 7 known Cylon Human-Forms, and the "now six" means when the Number 3's were all boxes, it of course reduced the number from 7 to 6.

 

haha, in my desire to try figure something out about "Daniel" I started to see signs where there were none... though hopefully i was on the right track with the others

 

 

 

 

Considering I still cling to "Frack" which was from the original that may be true... if only I can remember where I read it... or did I hear it somewhere? Ggggrrr.. this is annoying me now, haha

 

What you said sound familiar to me as well. I can't remember if it's someone's theory or one someone in the show telling us about Kobol's myths.

[Ashley]

Just a heads up; the finale is three hours long.

 

One hour shall be broadcast on March 13th and the next two hours shall be broadcast on March 20th. Meaning March 21st shall be an epic day for all of us

 

Source: http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/02/16/the-battlestar-galactica-finale-will-run-three-hours/

[Mokong]

sounds f'ing awesome, they must have something pretty cool in the works for a 3 part ending, can't wait.... the 20th is my sisters birthday too

[Cube]

Just a heads up; the finale is three hours long.

 

Awesomeness.

 

It's nice to have an episode for explanation, and great to see Ellen back. So the "Final Five" are actually the final Cylons from Earth, not the last of the normal Cylons.

 

It's also great to get Cavil and Boomer back into the picture - I wonder if Boomer will try and take Ellen to the fleet...and what reactions would be. Boomer said she would probably regret what she was going...she probably will if she's going back to Galactica.

 

It's also interesting how the eights seem much more individual than all the other models.

 

I think it's possible that Starbuck is somehow connected to Daniel, due to her drawing of things that linked to the final five, as it seems that all the models knew about the "Final Five" back then (am I right in thinking that it was Cavil who programmed the others to not ask questions about them?). So it seems that he knew all along...didn't Cavil tell Tyrol that he could be a Cylon ages ago (although I don't think they had fully decided on who the final five were back then)

 

 

And in the midst of their confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.

 

---

 

but I can't figure out if the "he will find her" refers to something that already happened? Who is "he" and who is "her"?

 

"He" is Sol. "Her" is Six.

 

A Cylon-Cylon child was once unthinkable. It is inevitable because that's what the Cylons that went to Earth did. It is the future because Cylons can no longer Resurrect.

 

Sol and Six were once enemies, they are now allies. It happened while Sol was confused about what he was (he's pretty much accepted what he is now), the impossible longing was probably something to do with the fact that it happened due to Sol's longing for Ellen

 

[Ashley]

(although I don't think they had fully decided on who the final five were back then)

 

 

They decided at the end of season three I believe...

 

When did you make that selection?

 

It was somewhere in the course of the third season [that the possibility was first raised.] We killed Ellen early that season and we didn’t have an inkling of that at that point. But at the point that we killed Ellen, around the same time frame, I was starting to come up with the idea that there were five Cylons that had yet to be revealed.

 

Over the course of the third season, Ellen came and went in my thinking in terms of who the final five were. It probably wasn’t until we settled on the final four that I knew it was Ellen. When we got to the final four -- Tigh, Anders, Tory and Tyrol -- then it felt like, “and Ellen has to be the fifth.” Because Tigh being revealed as a Cylon was such a profound shift in that character, such a big leap for the show, that it felt really natural that she was also a Cylon.

 

And he had killed her for collaborating with the Cylons! There were layers and depths to that I felt were really fascinating, about guilt and blame and memory and responsibility, and I just really liked the way that all tied together.

 

Source: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/final-fifth-cylon-ellen-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html#more

 

 

Espenson and Mottesheard answer questions about No Exit: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-ellen-cavil-boomer.html

[Dan_Dare]

[Konfucius]

What a great episode. Although it wasn't the central theme this episode really made me realize how everyone is vary of all the fighting, the responsibilities and the daily life. Everything seems a lot more run down (mentally and physically) than during the beginning.

 

Damn Ellen, that woman is pure poison to her surrounding. After last weeks episode I felt compassion for her character but now she is back in full force pulling Saul down to his usual miserable self and killing Caprica's unborn son in the process.

That speech of Gaius was very funny: "... we need guns!?" He was pretty amusing throughout the whole episode and he finally seems to start to actually believe in what he is preaching. I was wondering if the Caprica Six Gaius sees is actually the Cylon God.

 

[jayseven]

Was a strange episode; slower pacing than recent stuff. Only 4 episodes left ever *sadface* and I just felt that this episode was a bit filler. No doubt a chance for us to catch our breaths before the final straight!

[Cube]

According to IGN, Universal Pictures are planning on making a film based on Battlestar Galactica.

 

The odd thing...it's apparently based on the 78/79 series.

[Ashley]

Apparently its because the creator of the original (Larson...Lawson. Something like that) owns the right to theatrical versions and won't allow Moore et al to do one based on the re-imagined series as he hates it.

 

Was certainly a very soap opera episode. Was funning seeing lots of Sixes though

 

[Mokong]

Apparently its because the creator of the original (Larson...Lawson. Something like that) owns the right to theatrical versions and won't allow Moore et al to do one based on the re-imagined series as he hates it.

 

What why would he do that, this series is bloody Pure Ownage

 

Was a decent ep, slow paced but seeing Ellen come back I was waiting to see how Saul would react and how it would affect the baby, damn they killed it... though I guess they'll use this to say, "see Pure Cylon still can't work, Heara is the savouir of both races.

 

I thought it was funny as shit when Saul and Adama were drinking, and Saul was "yeah my great granddad was a power sander", lol

 

Baltar was good too... and his big speech was great... up until the point he goes "... AND BIGGER GUNS", it was like a WTF moment... even Balter seemed to think it too when his "Fantasy 6" said it

 

 

EDIT:

 

Oh and going back to when I was looking for quotes made by baseship Hybrids...

 

 

 

Ha, was pretty much right, the death of the Liam would certainly be "terrible suffering"

 

Hybrid:From Razor:"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity. And in the midst of their confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in the shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know emnity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many. And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of the angel - - not an end, but a beginning. "

 

Then "the fith" is mentioned... Ellen, and from that it seems like when she comes back some bad shit is gonna happen.

 

[Ashley]

I really like the subtlely of the reveal that the piano guy didn't actually exist. Nicely done. And of course the way in which the song was 'All Along the Watchtower'.

 

Seems Hera was the thing holding the whole ship together, and Laura. Only three more episodes left (well, four...the next episode and the three part (over two weeks) finale).

 

Hot damn, Boomer is a bitch.

 

 

Was looking at Edward James Olmos' IMDB (as you do) and for trivia it has:

 

On Miami Vice and Battlestar Galactica: Miami, although it took place among policemen, wasn't about reality. It exploited reality to entertain. Battlestar is another thing. Despite it being set in space, it deals with real stuff.

 

I'm going to presume they should be using a semicolon rather than a colon but the thought of "Battlestar Galactica: Miami" is an amusing one...to me...because im simple

[Mokong]

ep 17, loved it

 

OMG, how much of an idiot is the Chief, WTF dude. I don't care how much he was looking get laid what did he think was gonna happen... at the very least he shouldn't have let Boomer roam free round the ship.

 

And the bits with Starbuck, awesome, when it was at the point when the guy was trying to get her to play I kinda figured it was her father... though I was not expecting for him to "not actually be there"

 

I think this also strengthens the theory that the "missing" Cylon, Daniel (number 7) is Kara's father... remember he was "artistic" I'd say musically artistic counts.... still hoping for Starbuck to be a God though, that would be so much cooler

 

Almost there now, damn this is gonna end with a bang I know it

 

[Dan_Dare]

OK was Piano man definitely her father? I'm pretty sure that tape didn't say Daniel on it, though new memories could = new names if Cavell was up to his old tricks