c0Zm1c Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Be it 60%, 50%, or 30%, or whatever, it's not entirely obvious what it would sell. I only said 50% because above or below that defines a majority or a minority. I know that console's and their peripherals aren't directly comparable in terms of sales. I was making a generalisation that developers and publishers don't stick strictly with only the most successful devices, they will consider others if they deem them worth developing for.
badboyace84 Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 going back to what dck said about peripherals not doing well. i cant believe that i dont have facts or figures but thinking about games like singstar, guitar heroes and dance mat games when people were making them. they were very popular especialy with dance mats when they were out i didn't know anyone who didnt have one so i think it can depend on the peripheral itself and the games they make that can determin how well a peripheral does and if they do do it and the games are good then it would probably do very well
DCK Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 The thing is, that IR headset has to exist beyond the game it becomes packed with. It's a gameplay defining feature with possibilities beyond our imagination [/cheesy]. The peripherals you're mentioning weren't all that, did well with the games they came with, but weren't used outside of those games. That can't happen to a peripheral like this potentially could be.
badboyace84 Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 i think it would depend on how it was used in game and that would depend on the company making it. if they saw a way to use it so tomake the game become a series in the way that guitar heroes and singstar did then they could do that. but then another company could use it a different way. it all depends on what the games companies are looking for in it
DCK Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 but then another company could use it a different way.The problem is that, except for a few cases of cross compability, this has never occurred in the gaming industry.
c0Zm1c Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 In the examples demonstrated, by both Johnny Lee and Warren Blyth (TrackIR), the head tracking is used to control the camera, and since all 3D games need a viewpoint (a camera) in theory its application could be quite extensive - far more so than the guitars, dance mats, and microphones mentioned. The idea of using such a device in a first-person game is especially exciting. Not just for shooters, but imagine just walking around, for example, Cyrodiil in Oblivion, and being able to use your head to look around at the world. It would replace the mechnical feel of pushing about a thumbstick (or, as in the PC's case, dragging a mouse about) with a natural action. You would be using your own head to move your characters head in the game. The increase in immersion would be considerable I think. I know Oblivion wouldn't be possible on the Wii (at least not in its PC, PS3, and Xbox 360 form), I'm just generalising again.
DCK Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 That's not what I'm saying. The peripheral should most very definetely be used in other games, I could not possibly agree more. The problem is that wouldn't be used [as much as it should]. The Eye Toy had potential to enrich far more than it did in the end, as it was 'just a peripheral' and received virtually no third party support. This is because of the reasons I mentioned before. A device like this would probably more succesful than the Eye Toy. but it wouldn't compare to its integration in a new console.
c0Zm1c Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 The Eye Toy looks to be quite limited and personally I don't think it's that appealing - unlike the TrackIR.
killthenet Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 I think there's going to be a bidding war between the 3 console manufacturers for this guy. This trackIR interface is going to be adopted by one of them as a basic control feature.
Oxigen_Waste Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 Why on earth wouldn't it work now? If they're putting out the Wii Zapper (it IS a periheral, you know?), what harm could it do to put out a pair of glasses and a stand for the wiimote? I mean, it's as basic as basic can get...
Rummy Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 Looks pretty freakin' awesome, and the guy who did it seemed like a fairly cool guy too. Only problem is, if Nintendo were to implement it, can anyone say law suit? I thought that's the general idea for not directly implementing consumer ideas? EDIT:Checked out his site, he's got couple other wiimote tricks which are cool. I should think any peripherals using this tech would be cheap, as it doesn't really require much in the way of expense, considering wii owners will already have wiimotes.
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 1, 2008 Posted January 1, 2008 Looks pretty freakin' awesome, and the guy who did it seemed like a fairly cool guy too. Only problem is, if Nintendo were to implement it, can anyone say law suit? I thought that's the general idea for not directly implementing consumer ideas? EDIT:Checked out his site, he's got couple other wiimote tricks which are cool. I should think any peripherals using this tech would be cheap, as it doesn't really require much in the way of expense, considering wii owners will already have wiimotes. He's pretty much begging to see some games, so I doubt he'd sue...
steggy Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 The Eye Toy looks to be quite limited and personally I don't think it's that appealing - unlike the TrackIR. I agree with DCK on this, if this tech came with a new console it would be more wildly used than if it came out as just a peripheral. There have been far more peripherals that have gone under used than there are that have been a success. If the Wii remote would of been an add on to the GC, heck even the PS2. We would have less than 5 titles that would of used it's features. The main difference between the one's that have been a success and one's that have failed are there main audience. Singstar, guitar hero & dance mat games all have a big apeal in the "casual" audience. The closest add on to the TrackIR in the console world would probably be light guns. How many games use the light gun on the PS2? I'd hazard a guess at less than 10. Now how many titles use the pointer function of the Wii remote? Look at how many games support TrackIR on the PC, and that's a platform where games can be easily patched and updated to work with it after it's release.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 I also agree with DCK on this. But the options in games with this technology ... it's astonishing! The guy is also very good at explaining it in a simple way with a clear and pleasant voice.
c0Zm1c Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 I agree with DCK on this, if this tech came with a new console it would be more wildly used than if it came out as just a peripheral. There have been far more peripherals that have gone under used than there are that have been a success. If the Wii remote would of been an add on to the GC, heck even the PS2. We would have less than 5 titles that would of used it's features. The main difference between the one's that have been a success and one's that have failed are there main audience. Singstar, guitar hero & dance mat games all have a big apeal in the "casual" audience. The closest add on to the TrackIR in the console world would probably be light guns. How many games use the light gun on the PS2? I'd hazard a guess at less than 10. Now how many titles use the pointer function of the Wii remote? Look at how many games support TrackIR on the PC, and that's a platform where games can be easily patched and updated to work with it after it's release. *sigh* I've already said, a number of times now, that a console peripheral marketed and supported well (most haven't been) could succeed, so this is the last time I'm saying it. You're right that it wouldn't do as well as it would if bundled with the console. It's forced on gamers and developers alike when it comes as standard, and so enjoys support by default (like the Wii remote). When made available separately it's left to the mercy of developer and gamer's interest. To be a successful peripheral Nintendo would have to do some serious groundwork. Let's hope they have with the Balance Board, because - like TrackIR - I think that could work well with a lot of different games too. I think it's pretty obvious that you could do a lot more with a device like TrackIR than you can a light gun. I don't see how the two can be compared in terms of game application. In fact NaturalPoint is apparently working on getting it supported in genres other than the more obvious ones. TrackIR has been around for several years now (it's up to its fourth version) and over 80 games have built-in support for it, not bad for the niche market it's intended for. And if you include its cursor control, then almost every PC game supports it. I doubt a lot of games would work that well with it in that mode, since it's designed to compliment the mouse and not replace it. But it's there for gamers to at least try.
steggy Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 *sigh* I've already said, a number of times now, that a console peripheral marketed and supported well (most haven't been) could succeed, so this is the last time I'm saying it. You're right that it wouldn't do as well as it would if bundled with the console. It's forced on gamers and developers alike when it comes as standard, and so enjoys support by default (like the Wii remote). When made available separately it's left to the mercy of developer and gamer's interest. To be a successful peripheral Nintendo would have to do some serious groundwork. Let's hope they have with the Balance Board, because - like TrackIR - I think that could work well with a lot of different games too. I think it's pretty obvious that you could do a lot more with a device like TrackIR than you can a light gun. I don't see how the two can be compared in terms of game application. In fact NaturalPoint is apparently working on getting it supported in genres other than the more obvious ones. TrackIR has been around for several years now (it's up to its fourth version) and over 80 games have built-in support for it, not bad for the niche market it's intended for. And if you include its cursor control, then almost every PC game supports it. I doubt a lot of games would work that well with it in that mode, since it's designed to compliment the mouse and not replace it. But it's there for gamers to at least try. The only reason I compared TrackIR to light guns is because they're both aimed at the same market. The only other peripheral I can think of that aims at that market are steering wheels. Which are a lot more popular than light guns, but they are an optional extra, that doesnt need any extra coding by developers. I didn't realise that TrackIR had as much support as it does, but the PC peripheral market is very different from the console one All I'm trying to say and I think we both agree on this, is that it would be more successful if it came with a console. I do hope the Balance board is supported well, and if nintendo have done things well. It could slip in, in the same way as steering wheels do at the moment. Because essentially all it is, is an analogue input, so if the Wii can translate this as a substitute for maybe the analogue stick on the nunchuck then there should be next to no work for devs (Heck if it worked like that, SSX blur would work straight away).
c0Zm1c Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 All I'm trying to say and I think we both agree on this, is that it would be more successful if it came with a console. In one way, I think the same could be said for TrackIR and the PC market too. I'm sure it would find greater support if NaturalPoint licensed the technology out to headset manufacturers. After all, they do have an infrared attachment out for headsets, and since gamers need to wear something on their heads for it to work it seems like a perfect partnering of peripherals. I'm sure many developers would support it without question if it came built into headsets as standard. Support from headset manufacters would no doubt help reduce the cost too because, for what it is, in its current stand-alone form the £100+ price tag is really quite expensive - the main reason I've not bought one yet.
DCK Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 *sigh* I've already said, a number of times now, that a console peripheral marketed and supported well (most haven't been) could succeed, so this is the last time I'm saying it. How can the device be succesful (i.e. get [third party] support) if it needs that support in the first place? This is a tautology. You're right that it wouldn't do as well as it would if bundled with the console. It's forced on gamers and developers alike when it comes as standard, and so enjoys support by default (like the Wii remote). When made available separately it's left to the mercy of developer and gamer's interest. To be a successful peripheral Nintendo would have to do some serious groundwork. Let's hope they have with the Balance Board, because - like TrackIR - I think that could work well with a lot of different games too.I think we should take as little risk as possible with this. There's a reason why the Wiimote isn't a GameCube peripheral like originally intended.
c0Zm1c Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 How can the device be succesful (i.e. get [third party] support) if it needs that support in the first place? This is a tautology. Obviously, like any gaming device, it would not have a lifespan's worth of support from the get-go. But that's not what I meant. I'm saying such a device would need a good launch, and maintained support throughout it's lifespan to be successful. Although, if the Wii is anything to go by, if they could do a similarly good job at launching such a device as this, then very little maintenance would be needed. I think we should take as little risk as possible with this. There's a reason why the Wiimote isn't a GameCube peripheral like originally intended. What do you mean by "we should take as little risk as possible with this." Do you mean we shouldn't be the first to adopt any such device and instead wait and see what would happen?
DCK Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 No, of course not, I'm just pointing out that (large scale) third party support is something that is acquired, not something you can assume. You're quite right though. And secondly, yes, Nintendo should wait until the time is ripe before releasing such a thing. I doubt MS or Sony is daring enough for this anyway. (I think I was talking about something else.) Here's a great new application of the Wiimote's sensing capabilities. It's based upon Johnny Lee's other idea. If Nintendo makes a more advanced Sensor Bar (that is, one that does sensing instead of transmitting just IR lights), then they're making a leap into the future.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 No, of course not, I'm just pointing out that (large scale) third party support is something that is acquired, not something you can assume. You're quite right though. And secondly, yes, Nintendo should wait until the time is ripe before releasing such a thing. I doubt MS or Sony is daring enough for this anyway. (I think I was talking about something else.) Here's a great new application of the Wiimote's sensing capabilities. It's based upon Johnny Lee's other idea. If Nintendo makes a more advanced Sensor Bar (that is, one that does sensing instead of transmitting just IR lights), then they're making a leap into the future. Am I the only one who thinks the on-screen effects are unresponsive to the guy's actions?
c0Zm1c Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 And secondly, yes, Nintendo should wait until the time is ripe before releasing such a thing. I didn't say that. In answer to what you said about us 'taking as little risk as possible' I asked if, by 'us', you meant we, the gamers, shouldn't be the first to adopt any such device.
Dante Posted April 11, 2008 Posted April 11, 2008 Johnny Lee demos his amazing Wii Remote hacks, which transform the $40 game piece into a digital whiteboard, a touchscreen and a head-mounted 3-D viewer. A multi-ovation demo from TED2008. Video
Guest Maase Posted April 11, 2008 Posted April 11, 2008 Wow, that guy rules ^^ Im happy for him, he made a prototype, and now he is famous by the Wii users who have Internet I just hope the EA put his name in the Credits, or something like that
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