Zelda 2008

[Konfucius]

A lot of very good points in this thread and I think most of them actually show why OoT was so good.

You cared for the people, they developed and Ganon was a real bad guy. I mean he killed the King, overthrew the kingdom, "enslaved" his own people and killed a few (Hyrule town).

Then it also had original weapons and a living breathing world that was more than: "you need this weapon to get there."

Also the dungeon design was really awesome and again you really wanted to help the characters.

In TP I more or less didn't care for any of them or was even glad when I didn't see them.

 

Also something very important to me that went missing in later Zelda games was the pseudo-freedom of choice. In OoT I think for instance Ruto asked I one would marry her and you could say "no" but the dialogue would go on until one said "yes".

Now of course this isn't very original but it added a certain feeling of choice and linked the player better to the character because essentially the player's choice was the character's choice.

 

I still think though that they should either introduce a new bad guy and make him bad, truly bad or set the timeline into the future where everything is new, Ganon rules and Link joins "the rebel alliance".

 

New idea: they could also start with a scene where you play Link's father and get killed by the new bad guy. Then seven years later or something Link is old enough to get a sword and now seeks revenge and does a few good things - like saving Princesses - on the way.

Also why does Zelda get rescued at the end? I mean if the objective was different it could even encourage you to go on. Say you rescue Zelda in the last third of the game and fall in love with her (as any gamer will do ). Then she asks you to save her dad and the kingdom and kill that motherf*.

I'd be like: sure I wanted to do it anyways and you're giving me even more reasons...

[Hellfire]

A lot of very good points in this thread and I think most of them actually show why OoT was so good.

You cared for the people, they developed and Ganon was a real bad guy. I mean he killed the King, overthrew the kingdom, "enslaved" his own people and killed a few (Hyrule town).

Then it also had original weapons and a living breathing world that was more than: "you need this weapon to get there."

Also the dungeon design was really awesome and again you really wanted to help the characters.

In TP I more or less didn't care for any of them or was even glad when I didn't see them.

 

I'm sorry, but TP's dungeons design is much much better than OoT's, in fact, it's the best dungeon design I've ever seen. Not to mention that OoT has normal weapons for an adventure game with the expeption of the Bombchu, while in TP you get the ball and chain, spinner and dominion rod (which was criminally unused). I also don't see much difference in the "you need this weapon to get there.", except that in TP it doesn't feel so much as "you need to go there to get the crystal of wtvr", it's more seemless. About Ganon, he and consequently Zant:

subjugated Hyrule in Darkness for a while turning everyone into mindless spirits, killed almost everyone in Kakariko, stripped power from Midna, took her place as leader of the Twili, who were reduced to mindless monsters, Zelda was forced to make a deal with Zant to save Hyrule Town, the Zora queen was killed, Link had to fight Zelda, everyone in the castle was killed and so were the Sages.

 

Seems pretty much like a bad guy to me. More than ever actually.

I also don't want to see Ganon regularly running around and doing all the dirty work, to me, seeing and fighting Ganon has a special aura and feeling, if they make him appear constantly he would just get much less appealing. Not to mention that it doesn't make sense that the King of Thieves and Darkness, the wielder of the Triforce of Power AND a gipsy would be doing stuff while he has "people" to do it for him.

[ShadowV7]

I want Ganon turning truely evil. Like scenes we actually see him stabbing someone. I mean we know he's evil, but I want to see what he actually does to people, like watching a scene of a town getting destroyed, and your like "Oh god..." or beating up villagers/slaves who go against him. I want to see the badass he can really be.

[Shorty]

Now that 2008 is so close, the idea of a "Zelda 2008" seems completely unlikely to me.

[Hellfire]

It always was. We won't be getting a Zelda for Wii for a looong time.

[Emasher]

It always was. We won't be getting a Zelda for Wii for a looong time.

 

Very true, TP took 4 years.

 

I want Ganon turning truely evil. Like scenes we actually see him stabbing someone. I mean we know he's evil, but I want to see what he actually does to people, like watching a scene of a town getting destroyed, and your like "Oh god..." or beating up villagers/slaves who go against him. I want to see the badass he can really be.

 

Nintendo wouldn't do that as the game would be rated "M"/(european equivalent) and that would limit sales a bit since alot of the zelda audience is kids. Unless they made it so the game looked at your parental controls and made the violence language ect. in the game match the highest rating you have allowed. Though then what would happen if you didn't allow anything over "eC"/(European equivalent).

[Cube]

since alot of the zelda audience is kids.

 

Just like GTA...

[Konfucius]

I'm sorry, but TP's dungeons design is much much better than OoT's, in fact, it's the best dungeon design I've ever seen. Not to mention that OoT has normal weapons for an adventure game with the expeption of the Bombchu, while in TP you get the ball and chain, spinner and dominion rod (which was criminally unused). I also don't see much difference in the "you need this weapon to get there.", except that in TP it doesn't feel so much as "you need to go there to get the crystal of wtvr", it's more seemless.

Except for the last sentence you quoted I wasn't comparing OoT and TP (although I must admit I had TP in my mind quite a bit) but more or less stating the obvious : why OoT was so good.

You're very right with weapons and stuff though, that was indeed very good - but there I wasn't really comparing OoT to anything else.

What I missed in many other Zeldas though was the lack of magic. Din's Fire was pretty neat.

 

 

subjugated Hyrule in Darkness for a while turning everyone into mindless spirits, killed almost everyone in Kakariko, stripped power from Midna, took her place as leader of the Twili, who were reduced to mindless monsters, Zelda was forced to make a deal with Zant to save Hyrule Town, the Zora queen was killed, Link had to fight Zelda, everyone in the castle was killed and so were the Sages.

 

Ok that is true. However, everything is told to you. You don't really see it happening during the game whereas in OoT there was the lovely castle and town and during the game suddenly everything was dark and evil. The people you knew had to flee or were killed.

Of course TP had some very good flashbacks and I actually watched those multiple times but it just didn't do the trick for me.

Random fact: I felt so attached to the OoT Hyrule that in WW I didn't want to leave it once I got there.

[Goron_3]

I remember completing the water temple in OoT and going back to Kakariko........ I was so angry. I wanted that motherf*cking ganon's head so bad! After seeing him in the forest temple i was so determined to complete that game lol.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I remember completing the water temple in OoT and going back to Kakariko........ I was so angry. I wanted that motherf*cking ganon's head so bad! After seeing him in the forest temple i was so determined to complete that game lol.

 

I actually thought that after you get the three stones the game would end...how wrong I was.

 

The length of that game impressed me, at the time.

 

Overall, I think Twilight Princess's main-storyline/gameplay is just as good, if not better than Ocarina's. It's only what to do after you kick Ganon's butt that lets it down. Slightly.

 

But, after Majora's Mask, nothing was ever going to live up to it, sidequest-wise.

[Hellfire]

 

Ok that is true. However, everything is told to you. You don't really see it happening during the game whereas in OoT there was the lovely castle and town and during the game suddenly everything was dark and evil. The people you knew had to flee or were killed.

Of course TP had some very good flashbacks and I actually watched those multiple times but it just didn't do the trick for me.

Random fact: I felt so attached to the OoT Hyrule that in WW I didn't want to leave it once I got there.

 

You see more stuff happening in TP than in OoT (regardless if you are comparing the games or not), in OoT it's just DING DONG the king's dead, hyrule's gone to shit, in TP you see most things happening: the twilight spreading, Zant entering the castle, etc...

 

But, after Majora's Mask, nothing was ever going to live up to it, sidequest-wise.

 

Yeah that's true. Of course it makes sense, considering it was MM's main premise. I would really like to see some sort of notebook coming back.

 

I remember completing the water temple in OoT and going back to Kakariko........ I was so angry. I wanted that motherf*cking ganon's head so bad!

That scene was so fucking amazing. OoTs cutscenes really were ahead of their time.

[Deathjam]

Damn I could never have imagined people being disappointed with Zelda TP. I think it's incredible and massive. With all these ideas floating about, if they were acutually implemented, I bet that the end result would be something that felt totally different from zelda, and most would complain about how it lacked the charm and spirit of what usually constitutes a zelda game.

 

The only thing lacking in this zelda probably is more immersive characters like in MM. I hate it when NPC's act like NPC's and do absolutely nothing until you interact with them. Makes the game feel like a game when you want to be immersed and truly like these characters.

 

Voice acting is such a No no lol. I can imagine link having a voice and it never meeting up to what players had imagined. Also, there is something about having him be silent. Sorta fits. Voice acting for other characters , meh, don't really mind. Just it would add to what is an already lengthy development time.

 

Anyways I havent even finisheed this game so let me go away and finish it now :P

[Jamba]

Still think that the only bit of it that felt really Zelda-ey was the first village which was crammed with charm and happiness. Other than that my only highlights were: double claw-shot (i like being spider-link), Midna, Oocoo and the setting and characters from the Ice Mountain but not the dungeon.

[Speedfreak]

I'm sorry, but TP's dungeons design is much much better than OoT's, in fact, it's the best dungeon design I've ever seen.

 

*spits coke all over screen*

 

WHAT!? Those dungeons were less like puzzles and more like grand tours! Most of the time they'd give you a key before you had even seen a locked door, other times the key to the locked door you has just seen was either in the same bloody room or in the next one.

 

The Temple of Time totally defined their attitude to dungeons in that game: "why make the player actually have to look around when we're basically leading them in a nice simple line doing simple puzzles?", so they just made you go straight up and then straight down in a totally linear fashion.

 

I mean jeez, OoT might not have had the best dungeon design in the series but it was certainly better than Twilight Princess's. Apart from a few rooms the Water Temple was brilliantly designed, the changing water levels turned the whole dungeon into a puzzle itself, it was jus a bit too frustrating because of time too well-hidden keys. The Forest Temple was also quite non-linear, you had to have a good look around before you figured out where to go, and then had to go back through the dungeon non-linearly to apply the item you got.

 

Do yourself a favour and play Majora's Mask or Link's Awakening for some genuinely decent dungeon design.

 

 

On the subject of voice acting: if it happens Zelda will suck. Zelda storylines exist purely for gameplay. Nintendo are free to change it up if they realise that the story is creating some especially bad gameplay and do so on a regular basis. But in game development when you include voice acting the dialog must be written early so the voice acting can be done in time. And if you want to change the story to better the gameplay but already have all the voice acting done the you're pretty much screwed.

[Hellfire]

Whatever, these TP threads give me headaches

[Fierce_LiNk]

TP's dungeons felt more...natural, I suppose. The Ice Mansion, for example.

 

They seemed to slot into place more naturally. The temple of time was not based around the idea of a dungeon, the dungeon was based along the temple of time, and that's probably the way it should be...in my opinion.

[philcollins]

i think some o fthe dungeons in tp were going in the right direction.. i really liked the ice mansion one aswell. that was kind of well ntegrated into the world and felt like a real place a bit more. the fact that it had characters in it was cool aswell.. yea i'd like to see dungeons that were seamlessly integrated into the world. less predictable. some outside boss battles aswell would be sweet...

[Jamba]

The temple of time was not based around the idea of a dungeon, the dungeon was based along the temple of time, and that's probably the way it should be...in my opinion.

 

Gotta disagree with you but as you said it's your opinion. The function of the software is to be an entertaining and engaging game not a piece of interactive graphical art which hints and maybe having puzzles in it (obviously this is all imo).

 

I totally agree with Speadfreak though. The dungeons led you by the hand so badly that it felt insulting to my intelligence. Hellfire is right about getting to see so much more happen, which is a good thing but it doesnt out-do the feeling of disappointment I got after I trounced every dungeon in the game. They needed to stimulate you into exploring the environment, hide the path of where you need to go. Maybe they should be asking Retro about how to make a better Zelda?

[Maverick]

Yep, that's about it.

 

lol awesome thread full of exciting news with hype hype hype!

[Fierce_LiNk]

Gotta disagree with you but as you said it's your opinion. The function of the software is to be an entertaining and engaging game not a piece of interactive graphical art which hints and maybe having puzzles in it (obviously this is all imo).

 

 

But, the game was still entertaining and engaging, it was still all of those.

[Hellfire]

Having played and finished all the Zeldas (except I and II) very recently I found TP's dungeons way more challenging puzzle wise.

[Goron_3]

The ice temple and the Temple of Time were fantastic. Infact, the Temple of Time is one of the best dungeons i've ever played tbh.

 

THe rest of the dungeons were disappointing tbh, although sometimes cool (like Arbitars grounds). A lot of time, you would get to a locked door and be like 'ooo shit im stuck' and then there would be a chest hidden in the corner with a key.

 

Also, WTF did they have like 15 chests EVERY dungeons when almost ALL of them contained like 10 rupees. REALLY pissed me off tbh.

[Jamba]

But, the game was still entertaining and engaging, it was still all of those.

 

The characters and some if the areas sparked some interest and engaged me in varying degrees of success but the dungeons in particular were not engaging at all. The Temple of Time is one of the worst level design decisions that I've ever seen Nintendo make; everyone I talked to almost turned the Wii off when they found that they were gonna have to back track through an already tedious dungeon.

 

Dungeons are usually the staple substance of Zelda games, where you have you mettle properly tested and I personally think that the game would have been better off without most of them.

 

Having played and finished all the Zeldas (except I and II) very recently I found TP's dungeons way more challenging puzzle wise.

 

I don't really have anything to say. TBH I'm quite shocked at that opinion as I feel completely the opposite. TP is the easiest Nintendo game that I've ever played.

[Hellfire]

 

 

I don't really have anything to say. TBH I'm quite shocked at that opinion as I feel completely the opposite. TP is the easiest Nintendo game that I've ever played.

 

It's wasy. Did you play the other games recently or when they came out?

Also, easier than WW? That's just plain false.

[blender]

It always was. We won't be getting a Zelda for Wii for a looong time.

 

its that kind of thinking that makes the e3 trailers so awesome. I reckon we are due a trailer in 2008. then maybe in 5 years it will begin