Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World

[pedrocasilva]

3-Who cares if the graphics are barely better than Tales of the Abyss?

Tales of Symphonia (Black outline, screen has blurred edges, which hurt my eyes), Skies of Arcadia (jagged edges in character models), Pokémon (obvious graphical shortcomings),... These are all some of my favourite RPGs of all time, and much, much better than Baten Kaitos, Final Fantasy XII, etc. which have stunning graphics.

I love Chrono Trigger, should I settle with 16 bit graphics on a home console nowadays?

 

Problem is not the degree of graphics alone, it's that the console could and should be doing so much better. And the fact they're doing much better elsewhere, on what should be their "side-project" instead of this.

 

FFXII was on inferior hardware than GC was too, how are inferior graphics to that acceptable for the Wii in a sequel to a game that sold so well?

[ShadowV7]

First things first:

 

1-Darksnowman, to call that...thing...a Murkrow is an insult to both creatures.

 

2-The Tales series dislikes America and hates Europe. Many Tales games never leave Japan, and those that do only reach America. The only Tales games to reach Europe were ToS, Phantasia GBA (horrible port) and Eternia PSP. I learned to stop getting my hopes up for this series.

 

3-Who cares if the graphics are barely better than Tales of the Abyss?

Tales of Symphonia (Black outline, screen has blurred edges, which hurt my eyes), Skies of Arcadia (jagged edges in character models), Pokémon (obvious graphical shortcomings),... These are all some of my favourite RPGs of all time, and much, much better than Baten Kaitos, Final Fantasy XII, etc. which have stunning graphics.

 

4-How can you people be so negative about the game, if you're going to buy it? If you start playing it with a negative attitude, of course you won't like it.

I don't know if the "monsters" thing has anything to do with the story, but I'm not judging it until experiencing it. Even the "Point & Click" thing is (kinda) understandable, since a lot of people complained that the overworld was bland in ToS.

My point is, if the game is good, cool. If it isn't, lame. But I'm keeping an open mind about this.

 

 

It's starting to piss me off, people being negative about this game, saying "it could be better". Any game could be better than it currently is, but I'm not thinking about that when I play something enjoyable.

Think on the bright side, at least you won't see Colette, Raine and Sheena in skimpy outfits, using spheres or whatever to play dress-up...

 

2 - ToS done well outside of Japan, ToP was badly done and no-one knew about it really.

 

3 - Graphics I don't care about

 

4 - It's incredibly easy to be negative if you know about the current situation with Namco, and Knight of Ratatosk. If you think it'll be even near the same level as ToS, is dreaming. The fact is, no overworld (ToS one still had places to go to and find for sidequests) aswell as other factors, make the game out as being rushed and incomplete. Yes all games can be better, they can't be perfect, but this game can get a lot better

 

------ <-ToS bar of awesomeness, not much to improve

 

------

 

------ These 2 are for other games, still good though, fair few things to improve. (KoR could be atleast this)

 

------ < -Knight of Ratatosk, lots to improve

[Jonnas]

I love Chrono Trigger, should I settle with 16 bit graphics on a home console nowadays?

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind. 16-bit 2D is good enough for me, and I would settle for it in a 2D RPG.

16-bit 3D graphics are non-existant, though (except for Starfox), so that's a bit of an absurd point.

 

If you want a better example, I wouldn't settle for 32-bit 3D graphics for the same reason I wouldn't settle for 8-bit 2D graphics. They're mostly ugly, and simply unpleasant to look at. In a few instances, you can't make out what just appeared on the screen.

 

Problem is not the degree of graphics alone, it's that the console could and should be doing so much better. And the fact they're doing much better elsewhere, on what should be their "side-project" instead of this.

 

FFXII was on inferior hardware than GC was too, how are inferior graphics to that acceptable for the Wii in a sequel to a game that sold so well?

 

FFXII graphic style =/= ToS (II) graphic style

 

They shouldn't be compared when it comes to console power, considering my main complaints for ToS graphics have nothing to do with graphical capabilities, but with details that were intentionally added.

 

The thing is, the PS2 and GC set the bar for "acceptable" 3D graphics, just like the 16-bit era set the bar for "acceptable" 2D graphics. They don't need to be miles better than that level.

How better could they make ToS II graphics, anyway? Putting earrings on Sheena? Adding uber-detailed hair to Regal's chest?

Okay, maybe softening the edges a little bit, but is that worth all the fuss?

 

4 - It's incredibly easy to be negative if you know about the current situation with Namco, and Knight of Ratatosk. If you think it'll be even near the same level as ToS, is dreaming. The fact is, no overworld (ToS one still had places to go to and find for sidequests) aswell as other factors, make the game out as being rushed and incomplete. Yes all games can be better, they can't be perfect, but this game can get a lot better

 

------ <-ToS bar of awesomeness, not much to improve

 

------

 

------ These 2 are for other games, still good though, fair few things to improve. (KoR could be atleast this)

 

------ < -Knight of Ratatosk, lots to improve

 

ToS had tons of side-quests, but none of them required the existance of a World Map.

And of course it could never get better than ToS. HAving to work with an already established world, setting, characters, etc. Is never good for an RPG.

 

But my main gripe is: How do you know ToS II's quality is 3 levels below ToS'? It could be only one level below . I understand why you're feeling negativity towards the game, but it actually sounds like you already played it.

 

Judging the game from screens and some gameplay descriptions is a bad attitude. Many people also doubted Metroid Prime until it's release. And Metroid Prime also had a "newbies" team working on it, remember?

[pedrocasilva]

FFXII graphic style =/= ToS (II) graphic style

 

They shouldn't be compared when it comes to console power, considering my main complaints for ToS graphics have nothing to do with graphical capabilities, but with details that were intentionally added.

Not at all, for one, FFXII had detailed mouths, better modeling (and most likely more polygons) better scale environments/geometry/draw distance and the battles were free without overlay to another scenery (this being mentioned has a reason) yes, FFXII didn't have detailed shadows in the characters while in overworld battling, for example... but they didn't change for a closed area each time you encountered a enemy (and ToS2 does); if we went there, there's FFX-2 (and loads of other PS2 era RPG's actually, but since we're in the mainstream) that, while the battle changed for closed areas applied detailed shadows to the characters. Tales of Symphonia 2 does none, and in way more powerful hardware it would be piss easy.

 

Hell, I'll even go as far as saying that, for the most part and dealing with the diabolic PS2 limitations when it comes to textures (in the number of colors, for example) it had better textures; not to mention way better artistic direction and texture usage.

 

Even if it was equal to FFXII... it could be considered poor, but at least could be considered a big improvement over ToS2, which this isn't.

The thing is, the PS2 and GC set the bar for "acceptable" 3D graphics, just like the 16-bit era set the bar for "acceptable" 2D graphics. They don't need to be miles better than that level.

How better could they make ToS II graphics, anyway? Putting earrings on Sheena? Adding uber-detailed hair to Regal's chest?

Okay, maybe softening the edges a little bit, but is that worth all the fuss?

Are you serious?

 

 

Piss poor modeling, low poly, lack of detailed shadows, bad texture tiling, low texture resolution (even for PS2 standards), textured mouths instead of real detail... The game is a joke for a sequel of a successful game in 2008 and in more powerful hardware. Hell, and it's not like they can't do better, Vesperia could be a Wii game and sport those graphics; this? it's just because they think they can get away with it.

ToS had tons of side-quests, but none of them required the existance of a World Map.

And of course it could never get better than ToS. HAving to work with an already established world, setting, characters, etc. Is never good for an RPG.

That's precisely the point of this sequel you know? they just went back to such assets and changed seasons, now where it was desert it has snow and so on, but they kept the same texturing, geometry... everything.

 

this is a sequel on the premise of recycling assets, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

 

If working on a established world, setting, character etc is not good for a RPG... then this RPG shouldn't exist; because it's the epitome of all that. (and quite simply wouldn't be done otherwise)

Judging the game from screens and some gameplay descriptions is a bad attitude. Many people also doubted Metroid Prime until it's release. And Metroid Prime also had a "newbies" team working on it, remember?

Metroid Prime had awesome graphics, this game doesn't even have awesome graphics for PS2 standards if that's any indicator (and for me it is, when I'm seeing the AAA team of that studio, that did ToS 5 years ago, doing something a lot better)

 

Will it suck? no, I hope not; but I'm not happy in the slightest with the final result, it's half assed as hell... half assed could be it's subtitle actually.

[Jonnas]

Well, I'll stop debating graphics, since I'm fine with what I see. (Although I think the "lack of detailed mouth" is a bit silly. It's Anime. It doesn't need to be more detailed than that.)

 

 

But I'm not saying it'll be as good as Metroid Prime, or ToS. I'm just saying it won't automatically suck (even if it is being made as it is). Everyone here is talking about the game like it will be the second coming of Superman 64. With an attitude like that, you'll end up nitpicking and hating the game, even if it is enjoyable.

 

For the record, I was sceptic of this game from the start. As I said, an RPG sequel rarely works. But I'm not judging it until I play it. If it sucks, it'll be lame, but I'm keeping an open mind until then.

[pedrocasilva]

Well, I'll stop debating graphics, since I'm fine with what I see. (Although I think the "lack of detailed mouth" is a bit silly. It's Anime. It doesn't need to be more detailed than that.)

Trust me, it isn't (silly), most J-RPG's are anime'ish anyway, and they don't need detailed mouths?

 

Even more so, it's not just about not having detailed mouths, is that their animation sucks. it's like a on and off thing (open and close) and in 3D with changing perspectives, seeing mouths like these from a side (and realizing it's pretty much a textured plain place) as well as low texture too... looks really bad (and not to mention something done in 5 minutes)

 

Lastly, detailed mouths are for today the same detailed shadows are; their lack in most cases should be criticized as they can only be explained by laziness. (there can be exceptions regarding textured mouths, but not with realistically proportions neither with the lack of interchangeable textures and resolution we have going in there.

But I'm not saying it'll be as good as Metroid Prime, or ToS. I'm just saying it won't automatically suck (even if it is being made as it is). Everyone here is talking about the game like it will be the second coming of Superman 64. With an attitude like that, you'll end up nitpicking and hating the game, even if it is enjoyable.

Never said it'll suck, I'm just not happy at all with their approach.

[Emasher]

I don't really care about the graphics. The game could be graphically similar to pokemon d/p And I still wouldn't be complaining. What bothers me the most is, ToS was my favorite game of all time. The story was just amazing, the characters were awesome, the music was great, the battle system was fun. At the end, me, and I'm sure all of you were dying for a continuation of the story. At the time though, It was looking more and more like if there ever was a sequel it wouldn't be on a Nintendo system, or would be Japan only. So we were all overjoyed when a sequel was revealed. But, then we found out that an inexperienced team was developing this sequel and that the game was originally going to be a spin off and judging by the fact that the team just doesn't care much about detail in other things like graphics, and characters, we can only assume gameplay and story will be the same. The characters in the original game were amazing, but now it looks like they have ditched good characters for monsters. A team that does something like that is most likely going to follow a cliched story with few or no plot twists. Its looking like Namco (although we already knew this), are bird-men (see the thread on that awful ubisoft babysitting game). "Oh, look, Nintendo has Pocket Monsters, We need monsters in our games to do as well as Nintendo, Make a tales spinoff the follows the story of ToS with a monster collecting system".

 

[/rant]

[Hellfire]

pedro is waaay too passionate about this lol

[darksnowman]

I'm somewhere between the optimism of Jonnas and the negativity of Pedro regarding this ToS sequel. I'm hopeful that it won't be an absolute shocker and that it can do justice to Symphonia, whilst trying not to get caught up in the hatred. Tbh, I think the graphics look nice, even good... probably what I'd want from a ToS2 in that they are still animé but they have lost the blurriness of Symphonia. And from the videos, I think it looks nice in motion too. The mouths I can handle... the shadows... its a pity they aren't more than circles. The lack of a world map is my main worry, but I'm still hoping it will work out because the over world in Symphonia wasn't stellar anyway- it was as much of a means to an end as this point and click map will be, I'd say.

 

Pedro's posts are great, and have been throughout this thread. He's consistent with his views!

[Tyson]

I wish the graphics were exactly the same as the original. Those models had character.

[Ten10]

The thing is for me I would say that TOS is to the tales series what Final fantasy 7 is to the ff series. Its the game that got people playing and talking about the series world wide. And you would never see square doing a game with their most beloved characters to this abysmal level.

[pedrocasilva]

The thing is for me I would say that TOS is to the tales series what Final fantasy 7 is to the ff series. Its the game that got people playing and talking about the series world wide. And you would never see square doing a game with their most beloved characters to this abysmal level.

Right on the money, I had never thought about it from this stance, but... makes absolute sense.

 

I'll borrow that

[Ten10]

Right on the money, I had never thought about it from this stance, but... makes absolute sense.

 

I'll borrow that

 

Thats alright, we are all brothers fighting for a righteous cause.

[killer kirby]

And you would never see square doing a game with their most beloved characters to this abysmal level.

 

Umm...what about Final Fantasy VII: Dirge Cerberus? That game was awful >_>

[Ten10]

Perhaps it was awful. But in retrospect it was like say Regal being the main focus of the story rather that Cloud/ Lloyd. Also it looked, graphically in line with the series. In other words, SE maintained the high level of of graphics people have come to know. And also you can't expect SE to make a good third person shooter.

[Jonnas]

Perhaps it was awful. But in retrospect it was like say Regal being the main focus of the story rather that Cloud/ Lloyd. Also it looked, graphically in line with the series. In other words, SE maintained the high level of of graphics people have come to know. And also you can't expect SE to make a good third person shooter.

 

If they had stayed within FF7 graphics, Vincent would still have cubical hands. :p

 

But from what I understood, they still messed around with quite a few parts of the previous story. And Vincent, in terms of popularity, is more like Kratos (or maybe even Zelos) than Regal.

 

A better comparison would be an action game, featuring Kratos, where he would kill hundreds of Derris-Kharlan monsters and angels, with Soul Calibur Legends-style gameplay. The story would feature Rodyle (who isn't quite dead yet) as the main villain.

 

 

Ummm...Sorry, everytime Dirge of Cerberus is mentioned, I can't help but mock it a little bit. It just sounds ridiculous from everything I heard (and seen) about it. :p

 

But just like you can't expect S-E to make a good action game, you can't really expect Namco to make good business decisions...

(Which is a problem they've had for quite a while, now. I have yet to hate on ToS II, but that is most certainly true)

[Dante]

Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World New TVCM+PV

[Goron_3]

It's annoying that this is the Wii's biggest (and only tbh) RPG and it doesn't look that great and then you see all the RPGs coming the way of the 360..

 

Show us some love dammit! This game better play well because it's pretty ugly so far.

[Emasher]

Perhaps it will have the illusion of having some of the original games charm with the almost not updated graphics.

[ShadowV7]

Apparently has 150,000 in Japan. Meh.

 

Looking forward, but not looking forward to this game at the same time, really want a sequal but sure this will be bad.

 

I think I mostly want this for an RPG on the Wii and this being related to Symphonia is pushing it more. Good thing for Baroque next month. No matter what people say about it, i'm still looking forward to it.

[brynpearson]

I think I mostly want this for an RPG on the Wii and this being related to Symphonia is pushing it more. Good thing for Baroque next month. No matter what people say about it, i'm still looking forward to it.

 

i knows its off topic but how does baroque play. is it turn-based etc.

[ShadowV7]

It's sort of real time like Zelda. Your in an area and there's enemies about and you go and kill them and to advance. It's a rogue-like/dungeon crawler game so not everyone will like it since you start from scratch when you die.

[pedrocasilva]

Apparently has 150,000 in Japan. Meh.

Pre-orders, it's not bad at all, it's already more than Vesperia will most likely sell. let alone pre-orders... vesperia must have like... 10 pre-orders

 

Also... Apparently... they royally f*cked Vesperia. Opening song is officially the worse ever, and they dumbed down the game to a button masher with unresponsive enemies.

 

I was like :| "this shit looks like Tales of Radiant Mythology!" (crap spin-off)

 

doesn't get these guys or namco off the hook, but is funny nevertheless, can't hope more for Vesperia to be a trainwreck.

[ShadowV7]

D'oh, missed out saying pre-orders. Woops.

 

Also haha at Vesperia. Can't believe they actually screwed it up. I bet they wished they done Knight of Ratatosk now since it would of done better. Oh I hope this is true

 

Made me a bit happier, but your right, doesn't let them off the hook. Hopefully this will teach them a lesson though.

 

And who would of thought, the inexperienced folk done a better game

[pedrocasilva]

D'oh, missed out saying pre-orders. Woops.

 

Also haha at Vesperia. Can't believe they actually screwed it up. I bet they wished they done Knight of Ratatosk now since it would of done better. Oh I hope this is true

 

Made me a bit happier, but your right, doesn't let them off the hook. Hopefully this will teach them a lesson though.

 

And who would of thought, the inexperienced folk done a better game

Don't take it as irrefutable truth just yet

 

battle system:

 

Vesperia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDUTTXS93t8

 

ToS2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orwC6rekkVE (2 minutes onwards)

 

ToS2 is the only where it's not a "show-off button masher" it's more fluid, quick and enemies actually counter, also less monotomous.

 

Opening songs:

 

Vesperia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6WI7EWPjxc

 

ToS2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZVs8mEMGgw

 

Vesperia tried too hard to appeal to westerners, it sucks and has no music sense.

 

But anyway, don't take what I said; see what I just left and judge it; it's a pretty good indicator and other communities are responding (I've heard X360 people saying it is because ToS2 had handpicked battles and Vesperia not, but the two videos are regular gameplay, etc etc)

 

Seems like ToV gone and implemented a quick press system from Tales of Legendia too, so it didn't improve upon their previous games; while ToS2 got a veteran from team destiny doing the battle system.