Rumor Control - IGN's Nintendo Voice Chat

[Deathjam]

What was the topic of this thread again?

[system_error]

What was the topic of this thread again?

 

Hijacked. I am sorry I stop it.

[Deathjam]

Hijacked. I am sorry I stop it.

 

Meh doesn't bother me. Just after all that reading, I had truly forgotten the topic of the thread :P

[Hellfire]

This thread is about everything :P It's kinda like our general nintendo discussion and I will highjack it again. Not really highjacking as it's in the sequence of something said in the podcast, that just derailed.

 

It is partially Nintendos fault - they can decide which games they accept and there used to be a Seal of Quality - not quantity like nowadays. Every successfull console has those but on the other said they also have a lot of good third party games which the Wii clearly has not at the moment. Nintendo knows that but don't care they make a fortune with DS and Wii consoles because they don't support the hardware with money like Sony or MS do - so they don't really have to care about that.

 

The Wii right now is overpriced and the attach rate is not as good as on 360 or PS3 even though they don't sell millions of consoles each day. Why? Because casual gamers are happy with Wii Sports and a few other games. But continue like that and you don't sell much games because gamers will switch to get a broader variety again.

 

Nintendo makes more money than every and you tell me they can't do anything about high quality third party games? How about investing money ... oh wait why should they - casual gamers are happy so why change anything.

 

It is Gamecube all over again only that Nintendo is now more successfull - but as a so called hardcore gamer I don't see any advantage for me...

 

The seal of quality was needed ages ago, when developers churned out crappy titles that had a bajillion bugs and crashed the console, because the industry was young. Are you saying that Nintendo should veto games that aren't good? What about Sony and MS? That's just absurd. The gaming industry can't turn into some Nazi regime.

 

Consoles with crazily high sell numbers in a short time always have lower attach rates, specially because Wii comes with a game. And why is Wii overpriced? Because you can buy a 360 with no disc, no game and more expensive games for a few bucks less? The money you'll fork out in new games, storage and LIVE if you want to use it will immediatly make it more expensive. Sure, it would be awesome to see Wii at 150€. But a 1 year and a half console that cheap, would be bad marketing and bad business considering it's still selling a lot. MS and Sony's price drops needed to be done to fight Wii, despite them losing money. If anyone feels that the Wii doesn't give them enough bang for their buck, because they want HD and more FPS, they wouldnt buy it in the first place anyway.

 

26 million sellers on Wii and quite a lot of games nearly there, I wouldn't say that there's a problem with Wii games selling, anyone who does is wrong.

What the hell is this "invest money" crap. Invest money in what? You want them to pay 3rd party expenses? Don't be ridiculous, Nintendo invests in the hardware and their software, the other companies need to figure it out, they should be thankful that Nintendo even helps some companies bring games to the west. They can and should invest in small companies and in bringing games to the West, but that's about it. And the fact that lots of companies managed to turn profit with Wii games just means support will keep growing. I also remind you that the slew of "casual" games started with PS2 with Buzz!, Singstars, lots of children games and whatever.

 

You know, it's clear that you think that "hardcore gamers" are some superior species and the "casual gamers" are lowlife who are leeching long time gamers or something. Everyone deserves to have their tastes catered to, if Nintendo dropped Zelda, Mario, Metroid, MK and Smash, if we didn't get Okami, RE, RE:UC, Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, PES etc... I'd understand, but no. We're still getting the "core" games and there's a new trend of "casual games" now that frankly, is great for the industry, it gives the chance for new people to play, some will keep playing that kind of games, some may eventually start play "hardcore" and companies who couldn't or didn't want to make fps, rts, wtvr and want to make low budget brain training clones can do it and make some money. This is good, it's very healthy for the industry and helps it grow, just like Nintendo expanded with NES, Sony with PS1 and now again, with DS and Wii. No one was abandoned, lots of people just feel betrayed because they wanted Nintendo not to be Nintendo and have completly different standards when evaluating game quality.

 

It's also nothing like GC. GC didn't get most multiplatform titles either, just like the Wii, for one reason or another, Wii still has the core Nintendo games and bigger 3rd party support, what exactly did you lose from it? Difference is, with big sales, it's more likely to see these "big" games soon coming out.

 

I understand, you just like the Nintendo 1st party games and little else, you want more shooters and GTAs, it's cool, you can buy'em on the 360 or PS3 no one blames you, your taste is yours alone and you don't have to answer to no one about it. Most of the so called "AAA" games out on the other consoles don't hold that much interest to me either, I might buy one or two cheap, which is what I've been doing and I'm loving it too, it's always great to complement your gaming experiences.

But saying ridiculous things like the ones you've been saying about investing money in 3rd parties, the "hardcore" losing out, c'mon, there's just no rhyme or reason for that.

 

When people bring out the "I'm hardcore" card, I can't shut up. I'm a gamer, I've played since, well, forever, I write for a gaming site (duh), I absolutely love discussing lots of aspects about games and you know what I consider "harcore"? Not worrying about it. Who cares if there are too many casual games or not? If it's a game, it's a game, if it's fun to play, it's fun, there's no need to imediatly dismiss it because it's a carnival game or whatever. Why the hell do I have to hear guys say Brawl has been casual'ed because you can't do technique X and Y and Excite Truck is a casual poor effort, because it doesn't have HD, DLC, 300 cars or whatever.

When Playstation came out it was the same shit, oh no look at all the punk playing videogames, they just want football, guns and tits, they're casual! Look at things now, it's the opposite. Why? Why does it matter? Why should we care?

 

Also, understand, this isn't a "heated" discussion or anything, nor am I angry or something, I just love this kind of discussions. IGN thread ftw :P

[dwarf]

But come on Hellfire it would at least be nice if we had a bit of choice for FPS and GTA styled stuff, 'tendo can't afford to miss out on that market and expect people to still buy the consoles.

Many, like me, only have one console and having 2 would be very pricey and hard to manage.

 

Why write such a long post anywho?

[Hellfire]

Also, never said I disagreed with that.

 

Why not? I'm here to discuss, I love doing it, it's a change to learn, investigate and to share the awesomeness inside my head :P

Better to write a long coherent post that small troll posts and spam all the time. Ouch.

[Goron_3]

Hellfire, are you claiming the Wii isn't overpriced?

[pedrocasilva]

Hellfire, are you claiming the Wii isn't overpriced?

Considering the market thirst for it? no, it isn't.

 

It's the law of supply and demand, really, if you manufacture 50 and there's 100 people waiting for one... it's only natural that you won't drop prices since production can't keep up with demand.

 

Of course you're free to say that it's not worth as much for you and not buying it; but it's not like Nintendo has to lower price to sell that unit to you, that unit will fly off the shelf anyway.

 

Going by that, everything with success would eventually be overpriced, since nobody drops prices without a reason like staggering product sales.

 

See it this way though... Wii has to last 5 years, it launched as the cheapest console, it's not like it has the space to do as much pricedrops as PS3 has; and doing 20$ pricedrops like Microsoft did at one time last year in US is just bullocks, talk about crapping out the impact of a pricedrop "X360, now 4.99 dollars cheaper!" would be the next step. They also did it so they could boost sales though, since it's not like they're leading.

[Goron_3]

Considering the market thirst for it? no, it isn't.

 

It's the law of supply and demand, really, if you manufacture 50 and there's 100 people waiting for one... it's only natural that you won't drop prices since production can't keep up with demand.

 

Of course you're free to say that it's not worth as much for you and not buying it; but it's not like Nintendo has to lower price to sell that unit to you, that unit will fly off the shelf anyway.

 

Going by that, everything with success would eventually be overpriced, since nobody drops prices without a reason like staggering product sales.

 

See it this way though... Wii has to last 5 years, it launched as the cheapest console, it's not like it has the space to do as much pricedrops as PS3 has; and doing 20$ pricedrops like Microsoft did at one time last year in US is just bullocks, talk about crapping out the impact of a pricedrop "X360, now 4.99 dollars cheaper!" would be the next step. They also did it so they could boost sales though, since it's not like they're leading.

 

In terms of demand, yeah it's not expensive. But for the technology you're paying for...it is quite overpriced. I mean, they were making a profit on the damn thing the moment it got released and that was yonks ago. I'd pay £180 for a wii now though, but only because that feeling i got playing mario galaxy was great.

 

Also hellfire, you mentioned we're getting the same core games in your long post. Whilst we are getting Metroid, Mario and Smash, it seems like mario has so far been their first 'step up' to the next generation, and even that game was made so a 5 year old could complete. In comparism, in the N64 days and even GC days nintendo still took some big risks for their franchises; Ocarina, Mario 64, Mario kart and even Wind Waker on the Cube we're them pushing the boat out.

 

On wii, to an extent, it seems like they want to do as little as possible. Only new IP that comes to mind is day of disaster (might be missing one...?), and they haven't even mentioned that since e3 2006.

Tbh if they announce a new metroid/FPS and zelda tomorrow i'd be perfectly happy =]

[Deathjam]

Also, never said I disagreed with that.

 

Why not? I'm here to discuss, I love doing it, it's a change to learn, investigate and to share the awesomeness inside my head :P

Better to write a long coherent post that small troll posts and spam all the time. Ouch.

 

Lmao. Really letting them cat claws out aren't you.

[pedrocasilva]

In terms of demand, yeah it's not expensive. But for the technology you're paying for...it is quite overpriced. I mean, they were making a profit on the damn thing the moment it got released and that was yonks ago.

Then should they drop the price is that it? if you were a Nintendo Chairman would you drop the price just for the hell of it?

 

Dropping the price now would be like if they had to respond to Microsoft who is selling jack shit in PAL-lands, hence the drops; Nintendo doesn't have to respond to that, just like PS2 didn't respond to GC pricedrops.

 

Also, think of it as... sure, Wii actually turns a profit, but their risk launching was 10 times higher than the competition. Think of it as a bet that's paying off; and be happy that it actually didn't drop since launch were a lot of us bought it, it always feels like assrape when you buy a console early and then it drops and get's bundled with some free games a few months later.

I'd pay £180 for a wii now though, but only because that feeling i got playing mario galaxy was great.

Sure, but then what it's needed is games, I mean... a PS2 has less pipelines (and power) than a freaking integrated intel GMA950 and all that, and it's still more expensive than GC was... Is it overpriced? Well, from your stance definitely, but the bottom line point is... is it worth the money? and depending on the games you want being on it... well, yes.

 

I don't care about Wii's price, what I want is games, preferential third party support, first party pearls and all that.

[Hellfire]

In terms of demand, yeah it's not expensive. But for the technology you're paying for...it is quite overpriced. I mean, they were making a profit on the damn thing the moment it got released and that was yonks ago. I'd pay £180 for a wii now though, but only because that feeling i got playing mario galaxy was great.

 

Also hellfire, you mentioned we're getting the same core games in your long post. Whilst we are getting Metroid, Mario and Smash, it seems like mario has so far been their first 'step up' to the next generation, and even that game was made so a 5 year old could complete. In comparism, in the N64 days and even GC days nintendo still took some big risks for their franchises; Ocarina, Mario 64, Mario kart and even Wind Waker on the Cube we're them pushing the boat out.

 

On wii, to an extent, it seems like they want to do as little as possible. Only new IP that comes to mind is day of disaster (might be missing one...?), and they haven't even mentioned that since e3 2006.

Tbh if they announce a new metroid/FPS and zelda tomorrow i'd be perfectly happy =]

 

I don't think Wii is overpriced at all and won't be even it stays the same price for quite a while. 250€ for a year and a half console is a good price, people still buy them, there's no huge hole in their pockets and no hole in Nintendo's pocket's, there's absolutely no need to lower the price. It's also fun to ignore the price of games and the need to buy storage devices isn't it? If people don't buy the Wii because it's underpowered, it's not because of the price, it's because it's not their cup of tea. But what really is important is that the price of a console is justified by the games you want for it. Don't like them, don't buy it. If I liked a lot of PS3 games the price would be justified, right now, to me, it's overpriced. That doesn't mean they should just drop the price.

 

 

So, no step forward? Really? I mean, motion controls, IR pointing, expanding the audience. Nothing? Swinging the remote to attack, pointing to aim arrows, fishing, even though it's a GC "port"? Mario Kart feels pretty different, with the new powerslide, the bikes, stunts, wheel, everyone was "what crap, bikes! a piece of plastic? stunts? stupid nintendo!". They stuck with it, yet you say they don't risk. Just like most people complained about DD because they didnt like the new mechanics, now it's a good thing. Same goes for WW. And Metroid? Please, the game basically proved that FPS can be phenomenal on Wii, so don't go that way. We see lots of new IPs yeah, but are they really new, asides from the name and characters? Not often.

 

Now, I don't keep track of your previous posts, but the general attitude I see from a lot of people is that Nintendo can't win whatever they do. When they change a game, it sucks, it's gimmicky blah, blah. When they change it back or take a different direction it sucks again, it was better before. Despite the fact that every iteration of their main franchises feels very different from the previous or expanding in terms of content, like Brawl, they're still accused of staying still. And then, you ask for new IPs, yet would be happy with another Metroid and Zelda soon. Which, when announced, would lead to whining about no no IPs yadda yadda.

 

Maybe your notion of moving forward is HD, lots of bump mapping, bloom and whatnot, but that's not it to me.

[system_error]

@Hellfire: Define winning? Obviously Nintendo is great at making money - they did that with the Gamecube too because unlike Sony and MS which have big money piles (now Nintendo too) they did not cover up their hardware but sold it with no loss of money.

 

The main problem is that third party support on the 360 and PS3 are way better than on the Wii. Especially high class IPs are nowhere to see on the Wii - and that is not only because of the inferior hardware when it comes to graphics. The Wii has as you mentioned a quite revolutionary new way of playing games but the majority of developers don't think that their prime franchises are for the Wii instead they make smaller less stunning projects to cash in on the enormous user base.

 

 

So what is the big gain of motion controlls and stuff if no third party developer really wants to invest in something epic and great. A Nintendo console gets a certain amount of AAA Nintendo titles - between those you need third parties to fill in. With quality and effort.

 

So don't misunderstand me I am happy with the Wiimote, VC + WiiWare (prices are a bit high for my taste) and Animal Crossing, Galaxy, Mario Kart, ... but I really would like to spend some money on quality third party games aswell and Nintendo has to take a lead and help, fund, whatever developers.

[pedrocasilva]

Obviously Nintendo is great at making money - they did that with the Gamecube too because unlike Sony and MS which have big money piles (now Nintendo too) they did not cover up their hardware but sold it with no loss of money.

Erm... They already had:

 

2002 Data:

Nintendo held almost 900 billion yen in cash and deposits at the end of March, 30 percent larger than Sony's holdings.

Source: http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=2570

 

Nintendo didn't had money losses since, like... 20 years ago? It's only natural that the money piled up.

I really would like to spend some money on quality third party games aswell and Nintendo has to take a lead and help, fund, whatever developers.

You and everyone, but it's not their obligation to pay their third party efforts, otherwise they'd be first party ones, and not third party anymore.

 

Actually, it's not their obligation neither should they pay the Third Party's high budget titles. Otherwise every developer would demand money in order to do a game for the Wii, since they know they can get it like that. Once you do it ("money incentives for everyone weheew")... they'll expect and demand it.

 

What they should do is lower fee's for those good games in order for them to have a higher profit (always a hard decision to do) and provide all sorts of doors to publicize it, like downloadable channels like Metroid Prime 3 one, trailers and the like.

[system_error]

Yeah well but Sony just has TVs, Movies (are there any good studios left they don't own hehe) if their console fails. Nintendo only has a cash reserve.

 

I am not saying Nintendo should fund the development of third party games - but secure better deals with them. MS paid a fortune for extra GTA4 content - which attracts customers resulting in more sold consoles and after that also games. Also there is/was a Nintendo development fund set up by Yamauchi - what happend to that? Nintendo should buy the rights to promising games not just buy them - that is what MS and Sony do and it works.

[pedrocasilva]

Yeah well but Sony just has TVs, Movies (are there any good studios left they don't own hehe) if their console fails. Nintendo only has a cash reserve.

Hence... lots of debts too... Sure their money doesn't come solely from consoles... But other Sony sectors entered a crisis you know... they dropped quite a few factories and personnel in the last few years to make up for it.

 

Nintendo is also one of the companies who profits more per worker.

I am not saying Nintendo should fund the development of third party games - but secure better deals with them. MS paid a fortune for extra GTA4 content - which attracts customers resulting in more sold consoles and after that also games. Also there is/was a Nintendo development fund set up by Yamauchi - what happend to that? Nintendo should buy the rights to promising games not just buy them - that is what MS and Sony do and it works.

Microsoft pays for everything, even things that most people don't know about (namely, enhanced, better than competition ports, since Xbox days, otherwise why would developers drop extra content and better graphics in a port?) We can see now, looking at Wii, what they'd be getting if they didn't paid. Is it the right way to go about the market? no, hence they lost a bucketload of money officially, and probably a lot more behind the scenes.

 

Yamauchi fund you ask? I bet games like Endless Ocean used it, Nintendo does names you know, rareware was nothing, Kuju was nothing, retro was nothing, whereas Microsoft and Sony buy established exclusives and teams. That's certainly a different approach to stuff.

 

Sony is doing it? not really, one or two games perhaps, but not most of the games, Microsoft? definitely they're paying a bucketload so the games are done for their platform. Of course by funding such thing you'll demand the copyrights though.

 

More than funding I want Nintendo to oversee such titles and do it inhouse or with second party's... Third party's? ramp up the exclusives and effort, but with Nintendo technical cooperation (that they should already have) not "with" Nintendo. (there's difference)

 

Hold that for Square-Enix joint ventures and the like.

 

Nintendo tried to talk with Rockstar as well, you know.

[darksnowman]

Nintendo tried to talk with Rockstar as well, you know.

 

Yes they did. Which would have went a long way to getting Manhunt 2 and Bully onto the Wii, the likes of which the Gamecube never seen. Its pointless painting things like GTA4 as some game that the Wii must have or else it will fail... but at the same time, it would be stupid to rule out the appearance of a GTA game on the Wii.

[Deathjam]

Also, IIRC, in the beginning days of SCEE/SCEA/SCEJ (Sony's playstation departments) there was in house dispute over the use of funds as the divisions department grew to the success of the PS1. Other departments wanted a slice of their revenue. I can't remember what happens from here, but i think SCE grew to the point where they were not just a funding resource and the departments use their funds independently of each other. It's not always so that one department helps out another. It's why you have management analyse their expenditure and profits and have them come up with methods to make sure they are making profits. Obviously, if the department went into the red, there are resources to help out, but cuts would probably have to be made, as happened in other sections of the company.

[darksnowman]

Episode VII summary:

 

The Conduit:

-Washington D.C. is under attack by aliens

-The All Seeing Eye, reveals hidden locations, monsters, items

-High Voltage was going to show the trailer which ign thought looked cool, but High Voltage wants to delay the public release of the trailer to make the trailer better and fix up its issues.

 

Gyrostar :

-Looks like Tempest

-$7, Wii-Ware Launch title

-Visuals look better on a larger screen

 

Animales De la Muerte:

-All 4 are excited for it

-Surprised Nintendo are fine with the title, not sure how ESRB will treat it.

 

~High Voltage have had 10 publishers contact them since Conduit blowout. Other Developers contacted them about using the Tech.

 

~Next week another game, kind of the same situation as the Conduit, developer going to fly out talk about the game, some screens, podcast

 

Prince of Persia DS:

-Announced today. Xbox360/Ps3/DS. No other news about it.

-Sounds like they aren't going to bother with a Wii version this time around.

 

Battle of the Bands :

-3 Waggle motions and thats it

-When you screw up, the song doesn't screw up

-If you play one song in BotB, you've played everything the game has to offer

 

Target Terror:

-Its actually programmers who made the game in costumes

-Frame rate sucks, gameplay isn't fun

-Calls out GAF for being idiots thinking Bozon liked the game without reading the review

-Its not good, but its awesome(the wackiness is the awesome part not the actual game)

 

Retro walk outs:

-They were completely wrong about the Retro rumor.

-Ign not happy that their retro sources didn't say a word when they asked.

-Matt thinks we may not even notice they are gone, big company, life will go on

-Speculations about what the situation was and what Retro is being asked to do now

-Rumors for leaving, internal Retro feelings: Metroid Prime 1 &2 Wii-Make, Some Retro happy to make a 4th Metroid, Some Retro not happy they can't make Metroid 4.

-Ign thinks they may go make a new studio, haven't heard word yet

 

Bunnies on a WiiFit Board :

-Can't comment NDA'd, jokes all dancing around Rabbids 3 but they aren't allowed to directly say it

 

Line Rider 2 :

-DS-"When deleting stuff using the stylus it kind of chugs a little bit" ( Huh? )

-DS-looks fine, may run better than the wii game

-No DS/Wii interface.

-Boom Blox level editor really smart, and the Line Rider 2 level editor is really lacking

 

~A couple of minutes talking about who will review what DS titles etc.

 

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon:

-If you played it last year, then you played this one

-If you were to play a mystery dungeon game, this is the one to play

-Tedious, doing same thing over and over

 

Reader Questions:

 

Q:Whats the deal with Bionic Commando VC, is it really the Nazi/violence reference?

A:Ign has no idea. Think it could be the Nazi reference, not the violence. Could also be those Next-Gen titles having something to do with it, Ign has no idea.

 

Q: Holiday titles ?

A: Mario party jokes. The same old Pikmin, AC talk. Confirms Kid Icarus again. Matt used interesting choice of words in this part "Maybe we'll see 1080 officially". won't look too into it, it was just in the midst of talking about potential titles.

 

Q: Does Brawl's Online knock the game some post review points now with MK online??

A: Brawl's online is broken, it sucks. Its still not working.

 

 

Q: Developers going to use Wii to DS connectivity soon ?

A: Ign asks a lot of developers about it, and the developers are usually like huh what? and Ign teaches them that they can actually do things. They think Line Rider should have used it.

 

 

Q: Timesplitters 3 Wii exclusive ?

A: May not be coming exclusively to Wii, or may not be coming to Wii at all.

 

 

Q: Anyway for a Wii Game to be patched to be fixed ?

A: Yeah if the developer puts the functionality in, but they don't think Nintendo is pushing for games to do this.

 

 

Q: Cricket Game?

A: Cricket!!!? Ign wants a Hockey game first.

 

 

Q: Ubisoft have any secret Nintendo-like quality games coming?

A: So far, Ign has seen nothing.

 

 

Q:Castlevania 2d DS,Wii.... 3d Ps3, 360 rumor ?

A: They know the DS one is coming, haven't heard anything else about it.

 

 

Q: WiiFit 6th best selling game in UK history, how do you feel, prediction of US sales ?

A: They like the UK sales. Matt thinks 2.8 million by year ends in US, Craig 3 Million, Bozon 4-5 million, Demon 2-3 million. A million month 1 is a given. Matt changes prediction to 3.6 million after Bozon says he thinks it may come bundled with Wii system come Christmas.

 

 

Q: EA Skate it, Skate spin off for Wii/DS?

A: Never heard of it, doesn't exist they say.

 

Q: Any 1st Party Nintendo games you know about but can't talk about?

A: If they knew they would talk about it, or at least blatantly tease about it (E.G. Kid Icarus)

 

Q: NCAA 08 Madden 08 hands on?

A: Soon, a month maybe.

 

 

Q: WTF VC Releases!! ?

A: Ign has spoken to developers who all say they have a ton of games in Nintendo's VC Que. So this delay is on Nintendo's end.

 

Q: Favorite Wii-Ware Game?

A:

Matt-World of Goo

Craig- World of Goo

Bozon- Animale de la Muerte

Damon- Strongbad

 

Animale and Lost Winds was getting love in this part too.

 

~Fin

 

Courtesy of the Gaf.

[Hellfire]

What do they mean, online not working?

[LazyBoy]

What's this about Retro walkouts?

[pedrocasilva]

What's this about Retro walkouts?

3 Retro employes (in 60) have left the company basically. With all the "OMG Nintendo is casual, the end is near" internet overtones.

[LazyBoy]

Were they higher ups, good men? I'm trying to figure if this on the scale of something like Free Radical.

[dwarf]

I'd like to hear more from Gyrostar and Boomblox.

 

If true it's nice to see a lot of publishers wanting to work with Voltage and other devs use the tech.

[Jamba]

What do they mean, online not working?

 

From what I've heard and seen in reviews, one of the main problems with SSBB is the online system. It's meant to get really bad sometimes and it seems unplayable. It's really harsh, especially when we all know how good a game it is and also how absolutely sweet the online for SMK:Wii is.

 

TBH, I seriously hope they sort the online for the Euro release, maybe they could patch the American one.