Zechs Merquise Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 The Portuguese mafia are in force here, to be honest, I agree with James. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. There's no point someone kid saying 'Well actually this is the best tasting pudding ever because I have a receipe that says so' when in fact the pudding tastes like crap. This is exactly what's happening here, people are saying the Wii is capable of sooo much better and can do this and that, yet the best looking game on the system is a port of a game released on the GC. The proof of the pudding here is what we end up seeing on our TV screens, and frankly it ain;t all that great.
Cube Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 This is exactly what's happening here, people are saying the Wii is capable of sooo much better and can do this and that, yet the best looking game on the system is a port of a game released on the GC. When all we've had is ports, budget and "non-serious" games on the Wii, it's hardly a fair comparison - Noone has taken years making a Wii game yet.
Gaijin von Snikbah Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 But there will be glorius pudding in the future. Mario Galaxy is one of the flavors.
Fresh Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 When all we've had is ports, budget and "non-serious" games on the Wii, it's hardly a fair comparison - Noone has taken years making a Wii game yet. SMG anybody?
pedrocasilva Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 This is exactly what's happening here, people are saying the Wii is capable of sooo much better and can do this and that, yet the best looking game on the system is a port of a game released on the GC. That just proves it; that's GC's maximum, not Wii's. It's not about portuguese mafia and whatnot, it's about logic. A lot of games aren't looking that great because a lot of developers never learned how to deal with the system, or are too lazy to research.
flameboy Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 This thing has been blown out of proportion, we are still in the first generation of Wii titles....think when the 360 came out there were a lot of ports, that whilst still HD were nothing more than standard def games with a bit of shiny hi res polish, none of the detail that can be achieved with the effort we are now seeing... It's phenomenal success so far means that all the publishers that are late to the party are just jumping onboard now are just porting etc...to get money in the coffers and to test the waters, and who can blame them it is still a new console which is catering for a very different method. I think we will see more and more developers creating better looking games as time goes by once the anti is uped (perhaps by Mario Galaxy). To be honest and this is going to sound a bit odd, but the PS3 selling better will help this, so once people have a reason to buy it we will see a shift to more Wii dedicated games. People will stop buying PS2s and then the console will stop being supported and instead of getting ports with added waggle we will get our own Wii versions of games... I think the Wii is capable of a lot more, how much I don't know...I think Sonic is a good indication of what can be achieved at the moment though...the night place level is gorgeous as are all the reflections and lighting on fight with Erazor...
Zechs Merquise Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 The fact is, most Wii games don't look as good as XBOX games, the system has been out for6 months, and developers have had kits for a lot longer, and we still haven't seen anything to substantiate your claims.
pedrocasilva Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 This think has been blown out of proportion, we are still in the first generation of Wii titles....think when the 360 came out there were a lot of ports, that whilst still HD were nothing more than standard def games with a bit of shiny hi res polish, none of the detail that can be achieved with the effort we are now seeing... It's phenomenal success so far means that all the publishers that are late to the party are just jumping onboard now are just porting etc...to get money in the coffers and to test the waters, and who can blame them it is still a new console which is catering for a very different method. I think we will see more and more developers creating better looking games as time goes by once the anti is uped (perhaps by Mario Galaxy). To be honest and this is going to sound a bit odd, but the PS3 selling better will help this, so once people have a reason to buy it we will see a shift to more Wii dedicated games. People will stop buying PS2s and then the console will stop being supported and instead of getting ports with added waggle we will get our own Wii versions of games... I think the Wii is capable of a lot more, how much I don't know...I think Sonic is a good indication of what can be achieved at the moment though...the night place level is gorgeous as are all the reflections and lighting on fight with Erazor... I agree, PS2 needs to be phased out. Not necessarily by PS3 selling, but we need those customers to move aside and support to be dropped, no doubt. The games are being done with it in mind, from engines to multiplatform constraints in order to run it there, and Wii is the one suffering the most with that. Sonic atsr uses Renderware though, same middleware Manhunt 2 uses, if that's any indication. (and Burnout and Black) I wouldn't say Sonic is pushing the Wii though, but it's a beautiful game at parts no doubt. One of the best exclusives for Wii at the moment. The fact is, most Wii games don't look as good as XBOX games, the system has been out for6 months, and developers have had kits for a lot longer, and we still haven't seen anything to substantiate your claims.Same for the original GC. Xbox often had ports from PC games instead of games depending on PS2 roots, and Microsoft actually funded developers if better visuals were provided from the PS2 build. No developer would take it's time and make the Xbox version more advanced while it had less install base than PS2 and thus would sell worse, if they didn't get paid for doing that. Just look at Wii, by the going of things, in Xbox time it wouldn't be a obligation, but now it kinda is, with next gen consoles out there, and still a lot of developers don't do that; why? because they don't get paid to do that. Also a lot of developers knew how to work and develop for Xbox, and a lot don't know much about developing for Wii, they're learning now. It's a new architecture for them and it takes time to adjust, just like PS2 did take it's time (despite Wii being much easier than that)
DCK Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 The bottom line is: Given: a) Wii >= 1.5 GC b) Make IGN's (and especially James') claims ridiculous. The editors at IGN know about games, but they shouldn't pretend to know everything about the hardware.
flameboy Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Make IGN's (and especially James') claims ridiculous. The editors at IGN know about games, but they shouldn't pretend to know everything about the hardware. That is a good point...they are at the end of they journalists not hardware designers or programmers. As much as they have a knowledge of various hardware issues like real time lighting, shader, normal mapping etc...they do not know the intricate nuances of each consoles achitecture and how these things are implemented none of us truly do unless we have personally programmed for the system...
pedrocasilva Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 That is a good point...they are at the end of they journalists not hardware designers or programmers. As much as they have a knowledge of various hardware issues like real time lighting, shader, normal mapping etc...they do not know the intricate nuances of each consoles achitecture and how these things are implemented none of us truly do unless we have personally programmed for the system...It's more than that even, there's always leaked information, tidbits, NDA violations and general knowledge of what doing something envolves for the hardware, and how it's done. So, yeah, they could know a lot more (and I mean a LOT) about how this architecture does work from info floating around if only they knew what they were talking about, they don't though. Just by looking at the official specs or knowing them, they'd know GC had advantage in lightning. And that should hold true for Wii too. Even analysing some info they got, someone told them "Wii can't do normal maps" and they jumped on it like it was the biggest discovery since sliced cheese, thing is... PS2 could do normal maps, aswell as GC and Xbox; But... Xbox 1 had directX libraries and those include stuff for normal mapping out of the box. What can we conclude from this? Well... aparently Wii doesn't have libraries for normal mapping (yet?), hence why developers (like Dewy's) said they implemented it; it took research and working hours for them to do so. But that doesn't imply it's not possible it's just as possible as in any other system who can do at least 4 texture passes; libraries for that would make it easier though. Should libraries for it be made available? surely, just like Nintendo said they're investing in libraries for fur shading and such, the more the libraries the faster the development and faster the results could be; that's certainly the way to go. Then there's the nuances you mention, strenghts and lows of the systems and the best path to achieve better results, those differ a lot between diferent architectures.
Owen Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 So what would people like to see in this game? Like Wii-control killer moves etc.. Anyone got any examples? I reckon the neck-breaking one will be in it, like i said earlier.
Zechs Merquise Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Zechs, you are ridiculous. Why? For pointing out that Wii games are not as graphically impressive as we're told they should be?
pedrocasilva Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Why? For pointing out that Wii games are not as graphically impressive as we're told they should be? Chill out
Hellfire Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Why? For pointing out that Wii games are not as graphically impressive as we're told they should be? Because you're always: "lolzers portuguese mafia! Wii is less powerful than XBOX, I knoes it!"
DCK Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Why? For pointing out that Wii games are not as graphically impressive as we're told they should be?No, for implying we are wrong and the Wii is weaker than an Xbox. Check out the Mario Galaxy screen I posted.
darkjak Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 The fact is, most Wii games don't look as good as XBOX games, the system has been out for6 months, and developers have had kits for a lot longer, and we still haven't seen anything to substantiate your claims. Some developers, yeah. But some are just starting to work on the Wii. There was a lot of scepticism towards the Wii at first. Some analysts were saying that the Wii was one last ditch attempt to save sales figures, that the Graphical power of the console showed what kinds of financial problems Nintendo were in, and that it would be dead and burried after a year. Many developers lost tons of money on the Dreamcast, with big projects that had to be scrapped when the console, to some developers surprise (the Dreamcast was actually doing quite well, in Japan it could've outsold the Cube), while others decided to release their project on a console which by its own manufacturer allready had been stamped as dead meat. They didn't want to do the same mistake, so they released cheap ports instead. Now developers have been convinced, so they're looking more and more at the wii. And at least EA have improved the graphics in their games greatly. Just look at NFS:MW and then on NFS:Carbon. Carbon is MILES ahead.
Zechs Merquise Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Look, the Wii maybe more powerful than the XBOX, but we're not seeing it. Is it hard to develop for, does it require loads of money to be pumped into projects to get the best results are their flaws in the ahrdawre which make things more difficult? I'm sorry, but I'll happily retract my comments on this matter when I see finished products with better than GC graphics, but until then no amount of speculation or spec sheet techno babble will impress me. And I didn't say the XBOX was better than the Wii, just that it's games are all better looking than Wii games (with RE4 being the expection).
Gaijin von Snikbah Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 I think that making a Wii game push the systems graphical capabilities, would not make it sell much more. Casual gamers cant really tell the difference either. The Wiis graphics are not in the super extra special category, and nobody will look to it for a graphical wow experience.
DCK Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Nobody can disagree with that. The issue here is that we don't really know why stuff isn't working out yet... It wouldn't be like Nintendo to make the added functionality of the Wii difficult to program for or flawed... The best bets are really that the Wii didn't come up in the companies' plans after the GameCube 'fiasco' and the investments have only recently begun - a money issue, or what Pedro said, that the documentation somehow is/was not up to date. Hopefully the press event will show some more advanced 3rd party games. RE: UC and Dewey's Adventure are already showing off minor signs.
Cube Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Can an admin/mod split all these posts to a "Hardware Argument Thread"?
Hellfire Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Can an admin/mod split all these posts to a "Hardware Argument Thread"? That's impossible every thread about a Wii game has hardware discussions.
flameboy Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 Well trying to get back on topic....whilst revising for my Shakespeare exam, came across this: The video game "Manhunt 2", to be released in the summer of 2007, is said to have many allusions to "The Tempest". The line "What seest thou else/In the dark backward and abysm of time?" can be heard spoken in the first teaser trailer. Interesting for those who know anything about the play...
Zechs Merquise Posted May 21, 2007 Posted May 21, 2007 And whilst everyone is seeing fit to have a go, I'll point out now that when I purchased my gamecube on day of release I got two games with it, Rogue Squadron and Wave Race, both of which look a damn sight better than most Wii games. I'm not complaining that Wii games don't look like PS3 or 360 games, but it is worrying that they don;t even look like GC games in many cases. Also, all this 'The Wii is a GC1.5' contradicts the whole argument that people are 'just learning the Wii's capabilities' as if the Wii was a GC on steroids why the hell can't developers even get GC graphics out of it.
Recommended Posts