Hellfire Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 They didn't. MM, WW and MC all have "small" main quests, WW and MC sidequests were mainly fetch quests. Only MM nailed the sidequests, since it was the focus of the game. Most of the things you do in Zeldas aren't really sidequests, they can't really be called that, but we're talking about things that aren't necessary to finishing the game. Also, speedruns don't count for shit, they use bugs and exploits. You're trying to say that WW is bigger than TP? Don't be ridiculous. We're talking about normal people finishing the game normally. I beat WW in maybe 20 hours and TP in 60. And you were the one who brought on AlttP. Also even with warping you still need to sail quite a bit the empty seas to find the treasures. You really want to pin flaws on TP that aren't there. It's more like a wishlist you're making. What you really want is a game with sidequests being the main focus.
motion Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 They didn't. MM, WW and MC all have "small" main quests, WW and MC sidequests were mainly fetch quests. Only MM nailed the sidequests, since it was the focus of the game. Most of the things you do in Zeldas aren't really sidequests, they can't really be called that, but we're talking about things that aren't necessary to finishing the game. MM, WW and MC have large main quests, equal in size to TP if not bigger. I can't believe you really think TP is this monstrous game, it really isn't that big at all, especially after Arbiter's Grounds. Also, speedruns don't count for shit, they use bugs and exploits. You're trying to say that WW is bigger than TP? Don't be ridiculous. We're talking about normal people finishing the game normally. I beat WW in maybe 20 hours and TP in 60. It took you 60 hours to finish TP? Jesus christ, you can finish it in 35, and that's WITH taking your time. 20 hours to finish WW is also ridiculous. Watch the speed runs, everything in both games is legit. The travel time between TP temples is so short, I'm not surprised it's a smaller game. You really want to pin flaws on TP that aren't there. It's more like a wishlist you're making. What you really want is a game with sidequests being the main focus. Noticed how quite a large number of people seem to be preferring other games to TP these days? In fact the majority seem to have problems with TP now that the game has been released for a while so it's not just me. I'm not trying to pin flaws on TP and I certainly don't want a game that has sidequests as the main focus. I want a proper, epic, well thought out game, with a good structure, that is fun, magic, Zelda and has a whole host of things to do on the side of the main quest. That is not TP in my opinion. It IS WW however. I can't be bothered going back to play TP because there's fuck all to do in the game after you finish the main quest. Snowboarding, fishing and rollgoal loses it's charm after the 1st time for me you see. But again, it's not just me, lots of people seem to have problems with TP these days.
Hellfire Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 "MM, WW and MC have large main quests, equal in size to TP if not bigger." :laughing: :laughing: " It took you 60 hours to finish TP? Jesus christ, you can finish it in 35, and that's WITH taking your time. 20 hours to finish WW is also ridiculous." Excuse me for taking my time with games I love. I'm not really worried about finishing them, so I can go to a forum and whine about it. "Noticed how quite a large number of people seem to be preferring other games to TP these days? In fact the majority seem to have problems with TP now that the game has been released for a while so it's not just me." Of course I noticed it. That's NIntendo's biggest problem: their own fans. They always expect more and more and more and aren't minimally realistic so when ANY game comes out, they are always disapointed. This will be more and more apparent. Also, the dedicated gaming community is a minority, if you think forumites and magazine writers are the majority, you're hugely mistaken. Also, I don't give a flying fuck what other people think. "I'm not trying to pin flaws on TP and I certainly don't want a game that has sidequests as the main focus. I want a proper, epic, well thought out game, with a good structure, that is fun, magic, Zelda and has a whole host of things to do on the side of the main quest. That is not TP in my opinion. It IS WW however." Completely and utterly disagree, but that's your opinion. "I can't be bothered going back to play TP because there's fuck all to do in the game after you finish the main quest. Snowboarding, fishing and rollgoal loses it's charm after the 1st time for me you see." While me, and most of my friends and people I know keep going back to the game. "But again, it's not just me, lots of people seem to have problems with TP these days." Do you make your own opinions, or do you absorb them by osmosis? Funny I always come back and argue with you, specially funny because you're always saying the same things lol. Still, it's all peaceful, it's all good.
motion Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 Excuse me for taking my time with games I love. I'm not really worried about finishing them, so I can go to a forum and whine about it. I'm not asking you to rush through it, what I'm saying is, I could finish WW in 500 hours if I wanted. But realistically, if you do the main quest as quickly as possible, WW would take the same amount of time, if not longer. So the argument that TP is 4-5 times bigger than WW is complete bollocks. Of course I noticed it. That's NIntendo's biggest problem: their own fans. They always expect more and more and more and aren't minimally realistic so when ANY game comes out, they are always disapointed. This will be more and more apparent. Also, the dedicated gaming community is a minority, if you think forumites and magazine writers are the majority, you're hugely mistaken. Also, I don't give a flying fuck what other people think. Or, the game is far from perfect and people prefer OOT, MM or WW because they're better games. While me, and most of my friends and people I know keep going back to the game. And do what? Play rollgoal?
Hellfire Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Or, the game is far from perfect and people prefer OOT, MM or WW because they're better games. You still don't understand that you are no God and that different people have different tastes don't you? And do what? Play rollgoal? For example, it's very addictive. You can also fish, find all the heart pieces, do everything that's not mandatory, or just take a stroll. It's no different than any other Zelda game. It's like saying "What do you do after finishing WW, sail around the sea?". Seriously, get a grip.
motion Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 You still don't understand that you are no God and that different people have different tastes don't you? Actually, I think it's YOU who has a problem realising that others have different tastes. You seem to think the reason people on here have problems with TP is because they're being over-critical. I'm saying, the more likely reason is that people simply prefer WW/OOT/MM due to the fact that they believe there are big problems with TP and the other games are more fun. For example, it's very addictive. You can also fish, find all the heart pieces, do everything that's not mandatory, or just take a stroll. It's no different than any other Zelda game.It's like saying "What do you do after finishing WW, sail around the sea?". Seriously, get a grip. Get a grip? When I finish WW, I have fun with all the sidequests of which there are 10 time more compared to TP. When I finish TP, I get bored because there's nothing to do. And it seems like a fair few on here feel the same way.
Blue_Ninja0 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 It took you 60 hours to finish TP? Jesus christ, you can finish it in 35, and that's WITH taking your time. 20 hours to finish WW is also ridiculous. Watch the speed runs, everything in both games is legit. The travel time between TP temples is so short, I'm not surprised it's a smaller game. I didn't want to stir this more but... LOL @ the hours thing. I took something around 20 to 30 hours to complete WW and around 70 (yes, seventy) to complete TP and i still have some heart containers to get. Although i was being a little pressured by some guys that think that finishing a game earlier is cool, i took the time i damn wanted to apreciate everything in this beautifull game and i can garantee you that, for a normal person, it's way bigger than WW. Not 4 times bigger, but at the very least 2 times bigger, which is a lot already, since WW is not a small game by normal standards. Also, just what the f*ck do speedruns have to do with a normal playthrough of the game? I also want to state that TP has a fair number of flaws that detracts from the experience, but all my other points are quite similar with the ones i've read from Hellfire in that little war of yours, so i won't repeat. Awesome, not perfect. That's all. Now, when is MM going to be released on the VC? I need to play that again. in b4 mafia accusations (>^.^)> TP <(^.^<)
Blue_Ninja0 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 You got it all wrong!! It's rapidash!!!!! And it's RAPID!!!
motion Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Speed runs give a pretty good indicator of the size of a game. They involve going from place to place without stopping unnecessarily, finishing the main quest without distractions. Correct me if I'm wrong but that should allow for pretty good comparisons with regard to the main quests of WW and TP. And it shows that WW is longer than TP, certainly not 'half the size'. Obviously it's not the most accurate way of comparing but it'll do, and gives a pretty good indication. WW has 7 dungeons, TP has 8 and there's a hell of a lot more stuff to do between dungeons in WW than there is in TP.
Cube Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 TP's mainquest 3 to 4 times bigger?? You're joking right? A speed run that you can download online through both games has WW taking LONGER than TP (and not because of the sailing, as the warp system was used). That says it all really when you compare both games. That's because there is lots of sequence breaking in TP... WW has 7 dungeons, TP has 8 and there's a hell of a lot more stuff to do between dungeons in WW than there is in TP. TP has 9.
killer kirby Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 yeesh a lot of arguing for such a great game :P I must say I would have liked WW more then TP if only WW had more land in the game. But I guess one of the things I like about Zelda is the beuty of the game and really TP beats WW in that category very easily (Still WW is good with the seagulls and all ^_^) Oh and I have started to play TP again ^_^
Eddage Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 MM, WW and MC have large main quests, equal in size to TP if not bigger. Ok, after reading that it is clear to me that you haven't actually played these games! Majora's Mask is basically side quests with a half arsed main quest tacked on, how you can it's any where near the size of TP's main quest is beyond me!
LazyBoy Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Speed runs give a pretty good indicator of the size of a game. They involve going from place to place without stopping unnecessarily, finishing the main quest without distractions. So by your logic OoT is the shortest game at 35 minutes right?
Blue_Ninja0 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 So by your logic OoT is the shortest game at 35 minutes right? Good point. Believe me motion, speed runs don't tell shit about a game's lenght. There's just too many factors to consider in a game's lenght than just a direct run through the essential objectives.
motion Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Ok, after reading that it is clear to me that you haven't actually played these games! Majora's Mask is basically side quests with a half arsed main quest tacked on, how you can it's any where near the size of TP's main quest is beyond me! Ok, perhaps that's not the case with MM. So by your logic OoT is the shortest game at 35 minutes right? No because the 35 min speed run used a cheat to finish the game quickly, whereas the WW and TP ones didn't. As I said, I'm not saying it's a completely airtight solution of comparing WW and TP, but it gives some indication as to the lengths of each main quest. Good point. Believe me motion, speed runs don't tell shit about a game's lenght. There's just too many factors to consider in a game's lenght than just a direct run through the essential objectives. But that's just it, I'm not saying they're good at comparing an overall game's length. We were just talking about the MAIN quest, with no distractions, which is exactly what those two speed runs can compare. It was merely a way of responding to the ridiculous comment that TP was "4 or 5 times bigger" than WW, when in fact it's probably about the same length.
killer kirby Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 In temple wise TP beats WW very easily, the only thing that makes WW so big with how long you play the game, is the collecting the triforce part IMO
Blue_Ninja0 Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 But that's just it, I'm not saying they're good at comparing an overall game's length. Ok then. 10char
motion Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Ok then.10char notice the 'overall' in my statement. I think they ARE good at comparing main quests. In temple wise TP beats WW very easily, the only thing that makes WW so big with how long you play the game, is the collecting the triforce part IMO The Wind and Earth temples are 3 times bigger than the Temple of Time in TP, or the Palace of Twilight, or Snowpeak even. Tower of the Gods is pretty huge as well. Ganon's Castle is far bigger. And yeah, just because TP has 1 extra dungeon makes f-all difference. There's nothing to do between the latter TP dungeons. Think about City in the Sky > Palace of Twilight. All you have to do is warp to the mirror chamber. Lakebed Temple > Arbiter's Grounds. All you have to do is use the canon in Lake Hylia to the desert and cross it easily enough. Snowpeak > Temple of Time. Again, you just have to warp to the Forest and go through the Sacred Medow. Even Arbiter's Grounds > Snowpeak isn't that big a quest. You have to catch a fish and go up a mountain to find the mansion. Boring, short, easy, crap.
Shino Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Considering you can teleport, speed runs don't mean shit.
motion Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Once again for those who are a bit slow... They give a general, approximate idea as to how long a main quest is, not a 100% accurate timescale as to the length of the game.
motion Posted June 18, 2007 Posted June 18, 2007 Certainly better than the ambiguity of "TP is 3-4 times bigger than WW"
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