sumo73

I know that it clearly looks like there were no plans made by David Cameron and George Osborne because they believed the polls and themselves that they would win. They had the backing of big businesses, big business owners and financial institutions with acronyms most people can't remember. I blame our previous PM for some of this mess and yet he has the cheek to send out an honour's list, half of which I would scrap. The Bank of England clearly had contingency plans (which we have seen over the last month or so) and they would have spoken to the government during the EU referendum about them. Regardless of where politicians were during EU debates, the civil service should have drawn up contingency plans as well and these would be some kind of plan. Since article 50 has not been invoked it does however give the government time to try and sort things out. Over the last month of so there have been some scare stories about Brexit. The one that comes to mind is Lloyd's bank (partly owned by the government) that said that Brexit was the cause of them closing down branches and cutting staff which turned out to be not true. The chief executive of the bank - Antonio Horta-Osorio said back in February 2016 that his company would 'thrive' outside the EU and yet the media say Lloyd's have record profits but are closing banks because of Brexit. What's next Nintendo to delay NX because of Brexit? I spoke to a friend in Japan via Skype earlier this week who asked me about Brexit and they said that Brexit would affect the Japanese economy. I didn't mention to them however that their PM isn't doing such a great job on the economy that everyone thinks he is doing. However Japanese firm Softbank did buy out ARM from the UK recently. I said to them well what about the Asian stock market crash in the 90's or the housing market/banking crash in America in the 00's? That had nothing really to do with the UK and yet we had to suffer. I don't want Japan or anywhere else to suffer because of this UK result but in an increasing globalised world there is often a ripple effect. Had the UK voted to stay in the UK, the poor would have had the two barrels of George Osborne's (soon to be CH honoured) austerity measures thrown at them. It's nice that some people here are thinking of moving abroad but for myself I can't afford to move abroad. I'm stuck here and so are many others who don't have that chance. My only hope is that with this new PM if she truly meant what she said outside No 10 a few weeks ago then it is not a continuation of the status quo under Cameron and Osborne. If this EU result says anything it says that the status quo and the disconnect between the political elite and the electorate can not continue. Of course since there isn't really any real opposition to this government apart from the SNP and they just want to return back to the EU. So at present this government can pretty much do whatever they want. Labour please sort yourselves out.

I'm still following the aftermath of the EU referendum with the SNP myopic about another referendum, UKIP without a leader, the Conservative leadership race won because everyone else had fallen out or quit and with the Labour party at an impasse fighting their true enemy, themselves. Regardless of the mess, I will give this new PM a bit of time to sort things out since Dave resigned earlier than I thought. However I'm hoping that Jeremy Hunt goes whenever there is the next cabinet reshuffle whenever that is!

I made a very conscious decision at the end of last year not to post anything about politics on my facebook page for this year and maybe beyond. It was something that I do not regret especially now. If you've read anything that I've posted in the last few days then you know that I am interested in politics but from what I've read on facebook it makes me sad from what I've read from others but I've enjoyed the discussion here, it makes me a bit more optimistic about the future.

Historically the Labour party was for a time anti EEC/EU but the party got drunk off of the pro EU story from Tony Blair. Corbyn was EU sceptic but the rest of the party wasn't really. The final result was a compromise during the EU Campaign. The Labour party in Wales has had a long and proud history but with the Labour party in a mess right now it gives parties like Plaid Cymru opportunities to exploit the situation. If the vote in Wales had been closer I'm sure Leanne Wood, would be saying similar things as Nicola Sturgeon is saying right now, first leader or not.

I wasn't directing this against you (sorry), I was just making a wider point from what I see online and in the media in general right now that these results do not give people regardless of how they voted to hate others.

The results do not give licence for people to be racist from a minority of those who may have voted Leave nor does it give licence for a minority from those on the Remain side who are venting their anger and being ageist against the old. Regardless of however right you think you are do not move to hate. Oh and regarding Wales I saw this article yesterday and is worth reading - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

No one remember this but the UK used to be part of ETFA before joining the EEC (the precursor to the EU) back in 1973. This is interesting- http://icelandreview.com/news/2016/06/27/efta-plans-cooperation-uk

Let me make this clear unless you are talking about block voting normally in a democracy - one person=one vote. All votes are equal, it's that simple.

I saw this from Larry Bundy Jr's twitter feed (twitter.com/LarryBundyJr) - Larry Bundy Jr ‏@LarryBundyJr Jun 24 Calling the Leavers Racist, Stupid & Passive-aggressive bullying wasn't enough to persuade them to switch, Who'd have thunk? #notmyvote Larry Bundy Jr ‏@LarryBundyJr Jun 24 If you want to be angry, be angry at the people who didn't vote and the d*ckheads who thought it was funny to tick both boxes #notmyvote Some great logic about old people voting here - http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/eu-referendum-old-people-should-not-vote

As I said before if Jeremy Corbyn (the current Labour party leader) had been allowed to campaign on what he truly felt about the EU, what he historically thought about the EU, the Leave campaign would have won on based more on facts rather than immigration and inward looking views. People of the EU need to ask people who rule the EU these questions - What power do you have? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? How can we get rid of you?

We are moving to the point of no return right now. Yes this referendum could be ignored but at what cost? Do you think 52% of the population would just say oh ok have another vote the last one was just a dry run. What happens if we have another vote and it's the same result or a near opposite result. Imagine if last weeks result was with 48% voting to leave you would still have a lot of unhappy people. I agree both campaigns lied with big business and the media playing their dirty part in all of this. (I include the BBC in this) We need to move on together or we are all screwed, simple as that.

I think Article 50 will be invoked but it won't be started until some of the mess we are in starts to calm down and the markets start to remain more stable. Although there are lots of voices from the Remain side who are understandably angry and upset with what happened last week we do need to move on as a country. This mess won't be sorted out just by those who wanted to leave. Regards to the current Labour leader he was never really pro EU to begin with but the rest of the Labour party having been sold the pro EU message by Tony Blair that it was a system without fault did. The Labour leader had to represent the views of his party and he went down a slightly different line to stay in the EU but with reform and not just accept the status quo. However had the party been less pro EU, I believe that Jeremy Corbyn could have campaigned for that and it would have shown a different message that wasn't based on immigration and inward lookingness that others complain about. I believe that now is not the time for the Labour party which are facing some bad waters to boot off it's captain into the sea and then get someone from the engine room to take over. Regarding the EU, we will not turn our backs on Europe but they need to take some time to reflect on themselves. Were we responsible in any way for this? Could we have done more to show people (not just politicians) that the EU was there to benefit not just big business but all the people across the UK. It would have been nice for someone big in Europe to come over to the UK and stated their case. But EU reform (not just tokenism) is just not possible. It is a system that is stubborn to reform unless it gets a shock to the system. Well it just got it's shock. If Article 50 is not invoked (I seriously doubt it) then do you expect everything to return back to normal. Do you expect people who voted to leave will just accept this. We are in interesting times right now we need to pull together as the United Kingdom so that everyone can live a peaceful life. Oh and in regards to ethnic minorities having abuse at them. My girlfriend is a former refugee to this country and went to a party with her extended family at the weekend. Most of them voted to stay although some voted out and none of them have experienced any form of racism about this result. Hardly a scientific test but that's the only thing I know. Sadly I will add there are several EU states that have no want to leave the EU where racism is on the rise and I would encourage the EU to get it's act together and stop this. Just as the UK needs to, the EU must show leadership.

I remember some interesting stats coming from the Scottish referendum in 2014 that people went against their parties wishes and voted the opposite way. Some SNP voters voting to stay in the UK and some Scottish Conservatives voting for independence. Before the results came out ask yourself how popular were the Lib Dems? A party with just 8 MPs. I say this as now an ex long term Lib Dem voter. I'm sure the Lib Dems will see their member base increase now because of their new stance on getting back into the EU by invoking Article 49 and also their membership will increase because this online petition about getting a second referendum will almost certainly fail. If the Lib Dems just want to get back into exactly the same EU that we have now that would be a mistake. There needs reform. Regardless of the results of this vote the EU themselves need to ask why did this all happen? They need to do some soul searching themselves. As I see it the UK can decide when to start Article 50 and not when the EU pushes us to start. These discussions have to be in the best interests on not only the UK but the EU as well. There can be a win-win for both now rather than some upsetting and very public divorce.

Stupid idiots all four of them.

We originally choose to join the EEC and did so back in 1973 and then had a referendum back in 1975 about whether we should stay or leave. Back then it was a free trade association regarding the movement of goods and services and not much else but over time it moved towards great union and more importantly political union and that was achieved in 1993 with the EU. We never had any referendum back in 1993 about whether we should have carried on or not. All we got was from the then PM John Major was largely an opt out clause which meant that we didn't have to accept the Euro. This current PM David Cameron desperate to keep his own party together some of whom were anti EU and the PM was also desperate to finish off UKIP biting at their heels called for a referendum. He didn't have to call for one this year but he did. If he had pulled it off that would have been the end of UKIP and other Euro skeptic MP's would have had to put up with the result. He nearly pulled it off. What Cameron and the rest of the political elite did not understand was the mood of the country, the people. There is now a big divide not just between those who voted Leave and those that voted Remain but a bigger divide between the political parties and the general public. I saw the rise of Jeremy Corbyn last year and with the vast Labour party member support I thought he could speak up for the forgotten but at times he seemed distant and aloof from what the general public felt during the EU debate. I still support Corbyn but he needs to listen not just to the supporters of the Labour party but to the general public. Last year during the elections I voted Labour (having been a life long Lib Dem voter) and for about two days after the elections when the Conservatives won I felt depressed about the whole thing. I just shut myself away for the weekend thinking to myself another five years of austerity, marginalisation of the poor, welfare cuts, another five years of selfishness and inward lookingness however I accepted the result. I want to add that I don't hate the Conservative party at all which seems to be the common thread with people, tribalism and hatred. What did we get last year? Hatred online for anyone who voted Tory and some protests against them being in power again. With this referendum history has a habit of repeating itself doesn't it? Regardless of this vote we in the UK are still Europeans. We won't stop being the country that we were (our core principles), we won't become racists, we will still accept others into the country and we won't turn our backs on Europe. It's just we won't be ruled partly by them any more.

This might be a bit heavy for some but I think it's worth sharing - And for everyone else-

"Now, Everything is done in Europe, and Europe doing this, Europe doing that really means the Commission has the powers of initiation and the ministers are under pressure to go along with them, and the public are kept out completely out! The European Parliament has no particular power - you don't elect members anyway, you just follow the list system. So you don't have local representation. The whole thing has been structured to keep the people of Europe from any approval at any stage.... It's a European federation, of a kind...It is an empire being built before our eyes, and what you do about it can't be a nationalist response; it has to be a democratic response". Tony Benn - 19th December, 2007 (The Last Diaries p.48) On Thursday if there had been a third option when voting "Stay in a reformed European Union" then I would have voted for that straight away. A reformed union that Jeremy Corbyn had spoken about during the campaign but the reality was how possible was that option and how soon could that have happened. It has taken the UK to leave the EU to prompt Greece's Prime Minister to say "We need an immediate change of course, democratic and progressive breakthroughs in Europe - changes in perceptions, mentalities and ultimately changes in policies". The idea of the European Union was a good idea but it needs progressive change to become something greater than it is. Last year I was completely against the UK holding any EU referendum especially when we had more important things to sort out. Last year I was very much pro EU but since last year I've seen the refugee crisis being handled badly by the EU and the rise of nationalism across Europe. People complain about how now racism has won in this EU referendum in the UK but I suggest you travel to certain parts of Europe. I hate the fact that several EU states love all the benefits of being in the EU especially with the free movement of people only don't like it when new people move to them who are fleeing for their lives. There are other things I want to say but I'm tired out by all of this... In an IN/OUT referendum there is a only a binary choice, there is no third option. We now must accept the result as painful as it is to some, heal some big divisions across the UK and move forward together.

It will be a 'Neverendum', meanwhile food banks, lack of social housing, health, cost of living, education and other issues will be put on the back burner while another referendum takes place and at what cost I wonder?

For me when you have the SNP in power then they would always push for independence regardless of the EU vote. It's their core belief. Even straight after the Scottish referendum back in 2014 the SNP talked again about another referendum. This is from their 2016 manifesto - "In the next parliament, we will try to get the Scottish people to agree that being an independent country is the best option for our country. We will listen to the people who voted No in 2014 and we hope to change their minds". This is from their 2015 manifesto- "The same principle underpins our continued support for independence and was at the heart of our campaign for a Yes vote in September 2014." In regards to Scotland using the pound and that England would not allow them to use it, of course that could happen but Scotland could use a different currency and peg it to the pound. The republic of Ireland used to peg it's currency to the pound in the past so it can work. Jim Sillars (ex SNP deputy leader) has spoken about this (Plan B) previously. Regardless of the EU results expect to see Nicola Sturgeon popping up on your TV a lot now regardless of where you live in the UK but the SNP voice must not be the only voice coming from Scotland.

A Scottish referendum was on the cards regardless of the EU vote. I don't see any Irish reunification in either the short or medium term however. The conditions on the island of Ireland are very different to those in Scotland.

I agree there won't be any real change in immigration in fact in the run up to the UK leaving there is likely to be an increase in EU immigration before we leave the EU. I posted earlier about the removal of the migrant impact fund and the fact that some businesses here undercut local wages by allowing foreign labour in and paying them less money. Regardless of wherever someone comes from they need to be paid the same going rate. I believe that the migrant impact fund should be reintroduced and an end to undercutting practices. The bigger question is how to do as a society co-exist with other people, how do we improve social cohesion and no one behind?

In regards to the results, I'm doing the same thing I did during the general election last year and just go to sleep and find out the results when I turn the telly on in the morning. Not staying up all night listening to new reporters talking about things with the result dragging out. I've spent too much time watching TV, reading newspapers, watching YT clips and talking to people all about the EU. Enough, sleep calls...

People are going to be upset regardless but I guess it depends how close the vote is. I won't be upset regardless of the outcome.

Sorry couldn't resist -

Regardless of tomorrow's vote in the UK we do need to look into the 'migrant impact' fund which this government removed and look into why some migrants undercut UK workers wages. Both of these points I should add were raised by the Labour leader. I don't see any clear winners in this EU referendum and I feel that the campaigns on both sides could have and should have been handled better. I saw a very dirty side to politics during this debate and I'm not impressed by it. Let's not forget that an MP died during this campaign. An MP that was prepared to work with others from different parties. An MP who saw the bigger picture away from divisive and tribal party politics that we normally see when we watch PMQ's or look across our media. When we vote on Thursday regardless of how we vote we are exercising our democratic vote. How we come back together as a country, how we look at the bigger picture, how we can heal some quite big divisions in the UK due to this referendum and how we accept the results is a question for Friday.