Grazza

I'm really in the middle when it comes to art style. On the one hand, I can understand the frustration that people focus on it so much, when there are (in my opinion) many glaring issues that have built up in the 3D games. On the other hand, it does seem strange that Zelda is the one series that always seems to have a different art style. Mario always seems just right. Regardless of the space theme in Mario Galaxy, the character models and textures seemed updated exactly as they should be, and everyone's agreeing Mario Kart 8 looks incredible. To me, the issue started with Zelda when (some) fans reacted badly to the Wind Waker art style. Technically, I wouldn't actually call the WW style a change in itself - it was more like Nintendo thought "We have more powerful technology. Now we can make it look like a playable cartoon." The upgrade worked perfectly, but unfortunately Nintendo were rattled by the response and got cold feet. This is where the problems began. Twilight Princess (as unveiled in 2004) looked stunning, but I'd say the whole art style for the finished game left something to be desired, such as the NPC and enemy designs. I totally agree with King V about the Great Fairies, and the one I always mention (sorry) is how the Dodongos looked like gecko lizards. I don't mean to be rude, but aspects of TP are the closest the series has come to "generic". Skyward Sword wasn't generic, but it was as though it was an attempt to please both sides, and one scared of alienating either. The early screenshots looked sharp and colourful, but remember when it suddenly started to look washed-out? I found the finished game underwhelming, visually (although I do agree with Ronnie that it's not as important an issue as gameplay). In summary, the only 3D games I didn't love the whole art style for were those two (although I do think the TP style has a lot going for it). The ones I thought were just right were OOT (and the 3D remake), WW and (from what we've seen so far) the 2011 HD demo. Yes, it was like Twilight Princess, but everything looked just right. So what I'm saying is that although art style shouldn't be a massive issue, the reality is that it matters for a lot of people. Going forward, I hope Zelda settles into a style that is just "right". If Zelda Wii U looks like the 2011 demo, I'll be ecstatic. If it's a follow-on to the Wind Waker HD, I'll be just as ecstatic. And if it doesn't look as good as either of them, I'll be happy as long as the game itself is a return to form.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if they want to detail Smash Bros so much before E3, it might mean this year's Q4 line-up is better than we've had reason to believe so far. Anyway, great that it's on at 11pm!

Well, technically it's because the European elections are happening soon, but it's also because there may be an In/Out referendum on the EU after the next General election. Summary of the 2nd one here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2596470/Tories-Labour-scared-taking-says-Farage-Miliband-calls-UKIP-leader-banned-leaders-debates.html

Probably, but I hope not. One art style everyone seems to like is that of OOT 3D. It's actually more colourful than the original (but no one seems to mind), and the character model of Link is perfect. Also, that bonus DLC for the Wii U Sonic game uses an updated OOT style. Everyone always seems to go back to the OOT style.

Those IGN videos are great. The games journalists involved all seem to "get" it. Yes, they have different opinions, but they all make good points, and there really did seem to be a consensus in that "2D vs. 3D" video - not actually about 2D vs. 3D, but which ones are the great entries, and what Zelda is really about. Regarding direct sequels, I think it's best to do them on the same console, eg. OOT and MM. That way you can have another game quite quickly that genuinely feels like the one before - something that's very welcome when you have a game as magical as OOT. Maybe they should have done a Wind Waker 2 straight away on GameCube? Who knows? The only thing for sure is that the DS games didn't live up to it.

This obsession with making VC games exactly as they were is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. TVs only capable of 50Hz at the time? You won't want the proper, 60Hz versions then. Game runs smoother than it used to? Artificially reduce the frame rate! No budget for colour printing at the time? Great, colour is overrated anyway! By sticking to this attitude, Nintendo is suggesting the VC is only about nostalgia, and not so much that these are great games in their own right.

So, watching the video, it does seem good - a turn-based RPG, but with 3D positioning. It's not real-time combat (thankfully, in my opinion), but it has an effect whether you attack from the front, back, left or right. I also see it involves traversing 3D dungeons, so I'm beginning to want it on Vita for the dual analogue. Hmm, we'll see... Don't really think I can buy a Vita just for this (although I'd like to).

I do think the N64 and GC days were better. The PS2/GC seems to be the last generation that could get the balance between "core" and "mainstream" just right. Maybe it was the last time budgets were small enough. The games seemed to be as "hardcore" as the ones from previous generations, yet with totally up-to-date (for the time) production values. Perhaps it's because I follow Nintendo (and before that, Sega), but nothing I particularly like has actually made it into the modern, mainstream market. There hasn't been room for Nintendo the last two generations (there was in terms of sales, but I mean being part of the main games industry). And even if I look at a 3rd-party publisher I was once very fond of, Square-Enix, they haven't really got anything quite right (to my liking) for almost a decade. Is there still room for Metroid? Will Zelda and Dragon Quest ever become as good as they once were? I live in hope, but being realistic, I can't really see these things happening.

1. Keep up with technology. Nintendo is never, ever going to have the cultural impact it once did until it matches the others - I'm not talking about online, achievements or whatever, but the processing power of the console has to be up there with the others. It may be a hard, uncomfortable truth, but it's still the truth. Listen to some of the recent IGN podcasts, for example - they're reminiscing about Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime - those games were so amazing because they utilised cutting-edge technology combined with Nintendo's software genius. The control, the exploration of 3D worlds, even the feeling of riding a horse - these things are still industry staples to this day, and it's not because Nintendo tried to get away with sub-par hardware. I was in GAME the other day and I saw an American football game running on the PS4. Although I have no interest in the sport, it was sort of an epiphany. The graphics were incredibly sharp and the textures were great. Compare this to when I tried out the Wii U with a demo of New Super Mario Bros U - sure, it was a nice game, but it was never going to get consumers throwing their money at a new console. Nintendo is not going to gain people's attention again until it gets Mario, Link and its other characters running around 3D worlds that look as good as those on the contemporary consoles. "Graphics don't matter" - one of the biggest lies and delusions in gaming. 2. No gimmicks. No gimmicks! (so important it's worth saying twice.) I have to be careful what I say here because I know a lot of people like the Wii and I'm not trying to offend anyone. My problem with gimmicks is that they are just trying to catch people's attention, rather than any earnest attempt to develop the quality of gaming. When I played games like Wind Waker on the GameCube, I couldn't wait to see how Nintendo would try to improve on them - but the problem is, to my mind, they never did. The whole concept of the Wii was to popularise something different. It sold, but I'd argue it didn't develop gaming in any positive way. The real problem with gimmicks is that they are expensive and rob us of two things: a) powerful hardware b) the standard control options of the day (eg. analogue triggers) 3. Bigger (maybe fewer) teams. Just to be clear, I don't think Nintendo should lose a single member of staff. What I'm saying is I'd like their teams to be grouped into bigger ones. Do we really need so many minor games? Especially when the company seems to struggle to get out Metroid and Zelda titles.

Using Wario as a cash cow on iOS would deeply ironic. And let's be honest, do we really want him on the main consoles?

Oh yeah, I don't think Atlus make bad games! Looking forward to watching the video. Hmm, sounds very much like the 3DS was the lead format then, although I assume the Vita version is at least higher-res. To be honest, I've always wanted enough reasons to get a Vita, but as this is an unknown quantity (for me), I'll probably just get it on 3DS.

Landstalker. It's not a series, admittedly, but I think it should have been turned into one. I played A Link to the Past on the SNES and I loved it, but then I played Landstalker on the Megadrive in 1993 and I felt even more transported to another world. There is a sign at the beginning that warns you about stepping into that land (the game is set on an island), and it made such an impression on me I've never forgotten it (I was actually going to put this in the "Moments That Blew You Away thread"). Once you were through that cave, you would be in a mysterious and dangerous world. All this suggested just with words. Anyway, I digress. The point is I've rarely played anything since that conveyed as strongly the feel of visiting a mysterious island (perhaps one reason I love Wind Waker so much). Landstalker used isometric 3D to provide more immersion than the top-down view favoured at the time. To be honest, it does cause problems when you revisit it nowadays, but I happily put up with it back then because it was so amazing. In the modern day, however, Landstalker could be a wholly fluid 3D experience - textured polygons, 1080p, 60fps. Not only could it be great in its own right, I honestly think it would keep Nintendo on their toes with Zelda. If there was a similar, top quality game in exactly the same genre, it might make them realise they can't do things by halves. Unlikely it may be, but I hope one day I can once again explore a strange land, with the same sort of atmosphere and a fairy assistant in my backpack.

My backlog's actually got a bit out of hand. These are the games I want to finish before I consider myself bored: Oracle of Seasons Shantae (the original) Etrian Odyssey III (yes, I still haven't finished with the DS!) I also can't really believe I've got a PS3 just sitting there, and I've played next to nothing on it. There must be so many great games I've not played. Admittedly, none of this is to do with the Wii U; I'm just saying the 3DS alone keeps me from noticing droughts.

...And, completed it. When you finish an Etrian Odyssey game, you feel like you've reached the top of a big hill. You've assembled a strong guild, beaten all the bosses and are looking back down with a sense of relief and satisfaction. So, how was IV compared to the others? Tough, but probably not so crazy. The level cap has been raised to 99, so going from 1-99, retiring then going back from 30-99 is a lot of work, especially compared to the first game (which had a level cap of 70). On the flipside, the post-game boss didn't seem at all unfair. I don't think it needs any specific techniques, just good ones of course! Speaking of which, my heart was pounding as I fought him. All that work! Had I prepared enough? When he showed his true form, it was time to act. Turn 1 - no problem. Turn 2 - no problem. Turn 3 - he reduced my entire party to near-zero HP. Turn 4 - I stunned him then unleashed my best attacks. It wasn't enough!!! Turn 5 - My blood pumping, I selected all my best attacks again. Would my guild survive long enough to use them? The boss unleashed an array of status effects, turning one of my Imperials to stone. My other Imperial grasped her Drive Blade and drove it into the swine, felling him once and for all! Awesome, awesome game - my 2nd-most played 3DS game (after Animal Crossing), and the best RPG on the system. It's also probably the best Etrian Odyssey, putting nostalgia aside. I actually turned on my DSi XL with Etrian Odyssey III afterwards, just to compare, and it's so low-res. I definitely think it's a good idea to jump into the series with the 3DS entries, if you're inclined to do so. On a finishing note, the StreetPass in this game is very good - it allows you to swap Guild Cards, which I've actually got a lot of. My own one is now decorated with 100% enemies, 100% items and "Defeated all enemies on Normal" amongst others! So, if you ever encounter the Sherwood guild on your travels, you know who it is.

The Prime games are difficult. Particularly in regards to the save point situation, I'd say there is one unreasonable stretch in the Phazon Mines. That said, I don't fundamentally dislike the system; it just varies with each game design. Other than that, some of the bosses are difficult, like Meta Ridley, the Metroid Prime itself and, most of all... ...this chap, the Spider Guardian. Apparently they did indeed make it easier on Wii, but it was ridiculously frustrating on GameCube.

I know we've debated something like this recently in the "Let's Discuss Metroid: Other M" thread (1st-person vs. 3rd-person), but I thought it was a good video regardless of the 2D vs. 3D debate. To me, there has not yet been a 3D Metroid that quite captures the appeal of the 2D games. That said, I'm not sure it's even necessary (or possible) to do so. I think most important games series should be put into 3D, because that's where the cutting edge of technology is, but at the same time there are things about the 2D templates - with Mario, Metroid and Zelda - that remain valid and unique. I wouldn't mind 3D Metroid staying 1st-person, but to me it's still very much like an FPS. If you think about the battles, you lock-on and dodge by circling and jumping (there's not much else you can do), whereas the 2D games are much more about positioning Samus, waiting for your moment, nipping into the right spot and unleashing your missiles. Anyway, I really do think there's room for both, but I thought this was a good video just for the discussion about why they don't seem to make the 2D ones anymore, or even really make many games like the 3D ones.

I checked my HMV today (a reasonably big one) and they seem to no longer have any games for any format.

Is this the bit where you have to run across that room? You actually have to hold down the run button or you can't get across.

IGN has done a series of discussions about Mario, Metroid and Zelda, and whether the 2D or 3D games are better in each series. I haven't watched the Mario one yet, but the one about Zelda is interesting, as is this one about Metroid: Personally, I like them both, but think 2D is quite a lot better, if only because of Fusion and Zero Mission. Apart from the 2D vs. 3D debate (there's room for both, in my opinion), the video is interesting in its analysis of how Metroid Prime was extremely high tech at the time, and was the last time Nintendo was at the top of its game in that regard. There is also talk about the lack of great single player experiences like that in general. Also, a bit about the much-desired (and evidently very real at one point) Metroid Dread.

One GBA game I always wanted but never managed to get my hands on was Double Dragon Advance. Oh man, I'd love to have that one. I'd also like the very first game I had for my original GBA - Final Fight Advance!

One of the most important things I think they should bring back from Majora's Mask and Wind Waker is NPC routines/Day & Night cycles. It doesn't have to be 3-day like MM; it can be 1-day like WW, but the principle is very important in making the game world feel vibrant. For example, imagine a postman has a daily routine, and you can follow him and see who he delivers to. So many sidequests could be based off of that. Maybe he delivers to a businessman, for example, who collects rare items.

Yeah, it's funny how Nintendo didn't make specific Mario platformers for handhelds between the Super Mario Land titles on the Game Boy and the New Super Mario Bros series from DS onwards. It's sort of ironic - I'm saying "not enough Mario!" In all seriousness, the GBA was a great machine, but Nintendo handhelds have always been massively about 3rd-party too. The 3DS is probably the first time Nintendo have had to keep supporting one themselves and not been able to hand it over to 3rd-party developers after a few years. It's still great to have GBA on Virtual Console, of course, just for 1st-party. I absolutely loved Minish Cap when I replayed it on 3DS, and in my opinion the two GBA Metroids are two of the best games Nintendo has ever produced!

This is why I said something flippant and didn't put my serious views on the game, and I understand exactly why @Hero\-of\-Time didn't want to either. This is not just a controversial game like Skyward Sword or Metroid: Other M, where people simply have different opinions. My analysis of Wii Sports would totally blast the Wii itself, and much of Nintendo's approach to gaming since 2006. I'd quite like to do it, to be honest, but I don't want to start an argument or upset people, and yet it probably would.

I still think a Zelda similar to Twilight Princess could prove how great that style could be. Part of the problem with TP was that the GC (and the Wii) just couldn't really pull off the game to its full potential. From the 2004 trailer it looked unbelievably good but the finished product looked a bit muddy and low-res. But hey, that was the technology at the time. We have HD now! The 2011 demo, in its own way, was almost as good as the 2004 TP trailer. Besides, I like the Wind Waker style just as much. The point about graphical styles is that improved technology makes new ones possible. In the days of the GameCube/Dreamcast/PS2, for instance, cel-shading was emerging as a way to make games cartoony. I loved it! But I was also very impressed with the cutscenes in Fire Emblem: Awakening last year: As others have said, it's the game that counts, but graphical style is important as well. Purely on this subject, the important thing is that they're trying to make the best one they can, rather than avoiding being too much in one style or another. Onto the game itself... It's funny, last time this thread was active, I had no idea how good The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds was going to be. There wasn't a dull moment, in my opinion, and the way you found items and upgrades (particularly for the shield and clothing) was very refreshing. What I'd like to see from Zelda Wii U is a crisp, smooth graphics engine where you run around a cohesive game world. I want to be able to run across fields, explore caves and get the feeling I've found things that maybe other players haven't yet. Imagine it: we come on here and say "I found the Mirror Shield in some ruins to the east", and someone else says "Did you know you can upgrade your arrows to Ice Arrows?" I suppose this happens already, but the way I'm imagining it, it's accentuated by the size and scale of the game world. I've said before, but I really want to play and explore, with loads of totally optional things. I loved how you could ride on a boar in Twilight Princess, and I'd like that extended to all sorts of dragons and creatures. Or how you could pick up enemies' weapons in WW. As well as double-handed swords, it'd be good if you could climb into and operate all sorts of battle stations. Anyway, it's all pie in the sky. I'm more optimistic now that they're on the right track, but you never really know what the next Zelda's going to be like.

The truth is, I'm completely unbalanced with my gaming. I can go weeks without playing a game at all. However, when I'm addicted to one I play at least 3 hours a day, or anything up to 6 (which I think is too much). Basically, work and gym are my priorities, then I game later on in the day. If it is one of those days where I'm playing too much, I'm afraid I just get a bit less sleep than I should. But yeah, I've got a backlog. There are definitely enough games for me.