The Reviews Thread

[Fierce_LiNk]

A game doesn't have to be revolutionary to be the best. The quality of a game will always shine through in the end regardless of how revolutionary it is and whether or not it happens to be a sequel.

 

You stole my moves!

 

Twilight Princess average ratio now 96.8% with 16 editorial reviews. 4 to go until it becomes part of the official default ratings screen.

 

Can't you see that nobody gives a rat's testicle apart from you?

[dabookerman]

FAIL.

 

Different controller, different way to play [with both sword slashing and aiming with projectiles]. Not solely conventional so in a sense its different enough to justify its position. I see what you're saying though but I just don't agree. Its this idea that people are fixated with that because this was/is a GC game, its a port with novelty features tacked on and not very original or innovative... Since when have you had this much input into the mechanics of a game other than just pressing buttons? Also how about Tekken 3, how is that game so revolutionary and original?

 

Tekken 3 perfected the 3D beat em up genre.

 

And yeah, there is nothing revolutionary to the design of this Zelda

 

Waggle has not influenced the entirety of this game, unlike past games.

[solitanze]

I'm in agreeance with the others regarding Twilight Princess and how revolutionary it is, in that IT ISN'T. But I don't care, I just want to see the game score high with aggregate review scores and thus for Nintendo to 99% completely fulfill their promise of this being the best Zelda game ever made [only being behind Ocarina of Time and thus not being 100% fulfilled but I wasn't expecting to pass anyway. OOT > Twilight Princess in regards to bringing gaming to a new level]. Otherwise, to me they have misled and deceived (that is if the game doesn't at the very least end up with 96.00% average ratio score - Either the Wii or GC version can achieve this).

[The3rdChildren]

Can't you see that nobody gives a rat's testicle [about the Twilight Princess Game Rankings placing] apart from you i[solitanze]?

 

I care about the Gamerankings placing more than I'd ever admit. I think it says a lot about the quality of a game when you can say it's ranked as one of the best games of all times. That being said, if it didn't make the top 10 I doubt it would hamper my enjoyment of it a single bit.

[The Bard]

Tekken 3 perfected the 3D beat em up genre.

 

And yeah, there is nothing revolutionary to the design of this Zelda

 

Waggle has not influenced the entirety of this game, unlike past games.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say thats true. It perfected the 3D fighting genre at the time, yeah, but street fighter came before it, and is still the king of fighters (pun...intended...?). For it's time Tekken 3 was revolutionary, it totally exceeded any expectations for that generation of 3D fighters and remains to this day the 2nd best 3D fighter of all time.

[solitanze]

I care about the Gamerankings placing more than I'd ever admit. I think it says a lot about the quality of a game when you can say it's ranked as one of the best games of all times. That being said, if it didn't make the top 10 I doubt it would hamper my enjoyment of it a single bit.

 

Same, even though I put so much into aggregate scores [probably more so than anyone else in this forum], i'll be enjoying this game no matter what in the end. But Nintendo did make a promise and I expect them to fulfill it with not only my expectations of the game, but acknowledgement from the general public that this game is a classic and that is reflected through having a high average ratio.

[The3rdChildren]

Same, even though I put so much into aggregate scores, i'll be enjoying this game no matter what in the end. But Nintendo did make a promise and I expect them to fulfill it with not only my expectations of the game, but acknowledgement from the general public that this game is a classic and that is reflected through having a high average ratio.

 

From the reviews, I think you can consider it fulfilled.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Even if it doesn't turn out to have the best scoring ratio of all time, you can tell right from the start that this game is going to be special.

Think back to the first footage we had of this game. The delays, the waits, the anticipation. What about the fact that it's going to be available on Wii from day one, and also it's going to see the end of the Gamecube's lifespan as well?

 

From that alone, i know this game is going to be something special. I don't think any of us need a score to tell us that.

[dabookerman]

 

I wouldn't necessarily say thats true. It perfected the 3D fighting genre at the time, yeah, but street fighter came before it, and is still the king of fighters (pun...intended...?). For it's time Tekken 3 was revolutionary, it totally exceeded any expectations for that generation of 3D fighters and remains to this day the 2nd best 3D fighter of all time.

 

Im sure i misunderstood, but are you saying Street Fighter is the first best 3d beat em up?

[Aimless]

I'm in agreeance with the others regarding Twilight Princess and how revolutionary it is, in that IT ISN'T. But I don't care, I just want to see the game score high with aggregate review scores and thus for Nintendo to 99% completely fulfill their promise of this being the best Zelda game ever made [only being behind Ocarina of Time]. Otherwise, to me they have misled and deceived.

Good Lord...

 

When will people learn that number ratings mean nothing? When they're amalgamated it's even worse, as you're comparing scores from different rating systems with varied criteria.

 

Yes, sites like GameRankings or MetaCritic can give a good overview of the general opinion on a game, but getting finicky over decimals boggles the mind.

 

In conclusion, I give Twilight Princess 4 fairies out of a Hookshot.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Im sure i misunderstood, but are you saying Street Fighter is the first best 3d beat em up?

 

When he said street fighter was the king of fighters, i think he just meant regardless of 2D or 3D.

[solitanze]

Im sure i misunderstood, but are you saying Street Fighter is the first best 3d beat em up?

 

Nah I think he meant Soul Calibur on Dreamcast.

[dabookerman]

Nah I think he meant Soul Calibur on Dreamcast.

 

I see, well, i do agree Soul Calibur is the best overall 3D beat em up, 2 and 3 cant compare.

 

Tekken 3 still remains the street fighter 2 of the 3D beat em up however.

[...]

 

I cant see how TP could deserve to be 2nd. Its just a well polished sequel!

 

What I can't see is that ranking... When I go to Gamerankings I see the old ranking, with Soul Calibur in 2nd and no TP in sight.

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp?rankings=y

Where the hell did solitanze get this picture?

[solitanze]

Its set to 15 reviews, not 20.

 

At the top of the default 20 reviews page, press the down arrow where it says minimum reviews/votes and then select 15, Twilight Princess is not in the default list where the games have at least 20 reviews as it only has 16 editorial reviews. But for the 16 it has, it current has the 2nd highest average ratio.

[Flaight]

I've always wanted to talk about this and this seems to be ideal. As with any of my posts, if you find this intimidating or daunting I'd like you to skip it; as always please don't let this be a conversation stopper - this is a good thread.

 

=====================================================

 

I have a love-and-hate relationship with reviews.

 

A "review" can be a combination of factual observations and personal experiences. So, one is objective and the other is subjective. The problem seems to occur when (a) you have a narrow perspective in observation, or when (b) you attempt to quantify an emotion.

 

Depending on your approach, any review can be correct. For example, I could review that Ronaldinho is a bad footballer because he isn't a good goalkeeper. I speak the truth, but only from a certain perspective.

 

Gaming reviews are the same. This is particularly so when a company, such as Nintendo, comes up with a new direction. We can easily compare things when they use the same yardstick. It's harder when we need to compare 2 things when each requires a different yardstick.

 

The easiest barometer is the statistics on technical specs. It's the least disputable of the lot. Nintendo games will likely always score very lowly in this area.

 

Then comes the 'fun' aspect. This splits further into 'natural' fun and 'nurtured' fun.

Nurtured fun is probably more common. This is when you learn to enjoy something. For example, some people might learn to enjoy studying languages. Or play chess. Or mobilize an army to defeat the enemy.

Natural fun is instinctive; you don't have to be taught or conditioned by society. Many psychologists seem to believe that this is caused by fulfilling our instinctive curiosity towards unusual things which we have yet to get used to.

 

'Realism' became a big thing from around SNES. The development of 3D graphics reinforced the mainstream fascination towards realism, just because "it was possible". Enjoyment of realism falls into nurtured fun; your mind compares the gaming world to your own and gains satisfaction from achieving what-if scenarios without facing the real-life consequence. This is the origin of why realism fascinates our society, but this is a socially-conditioned 'fun'.

 

Miyamoto/Nintendo's take on fun mostly falls into natural fun. The mainstream gaming tends to fall into nurtured fun. It's important that we remain perceptive to both types of fun and give just as much value to one as well as the other. Actually, perhaps a persuit of natural fun deserves more points because of its difficulty and risks. At any rate, both types of 'fun' are hard to gauge because of emotional factors.

 

I feel that many reviewers jumble them all up. For me, the best reviews are the ones which tell me what perspective they are relying on to get to their conclusions; it's inevitable that a review will be just one perspective and I would rather they tell me what their yardstick is exactly. This is too seldom done for my liking. I suppose we are supposed to know it, but somehow that doesn't feel good enough for me.

 

For so many years, a technical spec has been the yardstick. I hope Wii will change this tendency in this generation. A reviewer's lack of width in perception also leads to increasing or decreasing scores. I find that many reviews are single-dimensional in criticism and fail to aggressively measure their limitations.

[gj15987]

Wow, nicely said. To be honest I think with the launch of the Wii graphics should be taken out of reviewing a game. Because back in the day all consoles were closely matched on power. But now cus all 3 have different graphical capabilities I don't think its fair as PS3 games would always score highly in this department. And plus games like the metal slug anthology...how are you supposed to rate those 16 bit graphics?

[solitanze]

Theres been a drought of reviews in this past day...

[gaggle64]

Possibly because it's Sunday?

[Zechs Merquise]

I'm in agreeance with the others regarding Twilight Princess and how revolutionary it is, in that IT ISN'T. But I don't care, I just want to see the game score high with aggregate review scores and thus for Nintendo to 99% completely fulfill their promise of this being the best Zelda game ever made [only being behind Ocarina of Time and thus not being 100% fulfilled but I wasn't expecting to pass anyway. OOT > Twilight Princess in regards to bringing gaming to a new level]. Otherwise, to me they have misled and deceived (that is if the game doesn't at the very least end up with 96.00% average ratio score - Either the Wii or GC version can achieve this).

 

Oh come on, how many games are revolutionary these days? Most games are now are EVOLUTIONARY, ie evolved forms of existing franchises and genres.

 

Take for example Wolfenstein and DOOM, they were revolutionary games, they changed the way we played, but since then the genre has just evolved. Sometimes it has evolved in great leaps and bounds, but have we really seen a revolutionary FPS since then that has changed the way we play?

 

Look at games like FIFA and Madden - they simply evolve in very small increments everytime, but they are still polished and payable games (I realise that is a matter of opinion, and although I choose not to play those games, many do and I believe they are still polished titles).

 

Mario 64 was REVOLUTIONARY, Zelda OOT was REVOLUTIONARY as was Tetris and Super Mario Bros.

 

Now when looking at the Gamespot score it simply doesn't make sense to knock this game for simply being and evolution of Zelda. Gamespot score Tont Hawks 3 as the best game of all time well that is strange, as that game is clearly an example of EVOLUTION in gaming, but still it scores a perfect 10 - and by the same reviewer. How bizarre!

[solitanze]

Heres a post in Gamespot forums that will annoy some even more...

 

It's Zelda, people.

Matthew Rorie, Game Guides Editor

Since I know people are upset about the review (which is odd considering how few people have played this game at the moment), I figured I'd share some opinions based on playing through the first five hours or so of the game.

 

It's the same damn game we've all been playing for the last 15-odd years. Hey, guess what? You get to go into dungeons...and find items...and put together pieces of heart to make new heart containers. I haven't gotten very far into it, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Triforce is in the mix at some point.

 

There's a difference between tradition and ossification, and Nintendo's been content to let this series stay the same for too damn long. What's more, in a lot of ways it's actually getting to be pretty annoying. The helper characters, in particular, seem to be intended to be cute, but they wind up being maddeningly insufferable. In a lot of ways, Midna, the helper character from Twilight Princess, is even worse than Tingle from Wind Waker. And I don't know whose idea it was to make the first dungeon in the game feature a large number of monkeys that follow you around making incessent monkey noises, but they should be shot. Most annoying. sound. ever. When you have the pointer active, it also makes a shimmering sound as you move the Wiimote around. It never ever stops making this sound, and it got so damn annoying that I simply turned the pointer off completely.

 

Since every game in this series is more or less the same, outside of minor details, choosing among them is more or less a matter of deciding which style suits you best. Wind Waker had, at the very least, a graphical sensibility that was unique, whereas Twilight Princess just seems...generic. For a game that plays up its theoretically realistic graphical style, it also has to do a bit better job of representing the world; it's fine that the Wii isn't as powerful as a 360 or a PS3, but at the very least it should be capable of matching the best-looking games on the GameCube.

 

From top to bottom, Twilight Princess is a game that was transparently designed for the GameCube and hacked to work on the Wii. The controls feel kind of shoddy in a lot of ways. I guess what disappoints me most about this game is the lack of ambition and innovation. The Wii has some promising ideas behind it, but if they're content to have their flagship title be Just Another Zelda Game then they're getting off on the wrong foot.

 

I guess if you like the Zelda formula, then you'll like this game. Speaking for myself, though, I can't imagine how anyone really gets excited for them anymore; the recycling of game mechanics ventured into self-parody territory years ago. I really think the series needs to take a cue from Resident Evil 4 and reinvent itself completely. Heck, even the Final Fantasy games manage to make some big changes to the series' conventions with each installation. As it is, everything about Twilight Princess, and pretty much every game in the series aside from The Adventure of Link, smacks of Nintendo being content to play it safe with their big-money series. Give me something new!

[Zechs Merquise]

Heres a post in Gamespot forums that will annoy some even more...

 

It's Zelda, people.

Matthew Rorie, Game Guides Editor

Since I know people are upset about the review (which is odd considering how few people have played this game at the moment), I figured I'd share some opinions based on playing through the first five hours or so of the game.

 

It's the same damn game we've all been playing for the last 15-odd years. Hey, guess what? You get to go into dungeons...and find items...and put together pieces of heart to make new heart containers. I haven't gotten very far into it, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Triforce is in the mix at some point.

 

There's a difference between tradition and ossification, and Nintendo's been content to let this series stay the same for too damn long. What's more, in a lot of ways it's actually getting to be pretty annoying. The helper characters, in particular, seem to be intended to be cute, but they wind up being maddeningly insufferable. In a lot of ways, Midna, the helper character from Twilight Princess, is even worse than Tingle from Wind Waker. And I don't know whose idea it was to make the first dungeon in the game feature a large number of monkeys that follow you around making incessent monkey noises, but they should be shot. Most annoying. sound. ever. When you have the pointer active, it also makes a shimmering sound as you move the Wiimote around. It never ever stops making this sound, and it got so damn annoying that I simply turned the pointer off completely.

 

Since every game in this series is more or less the same, outside of minor details, choosing among them is more or less a matter of deciding which style suits you best. Wind Waker had, at the very least, a graphical sensibility that was unique, whereas Twilight Princess just seems...generic. For a game that plays up its theoretically realistic graphical style, it also has to do a bit better job of representing the world; it's fine that the Wii isn't as powerful as a 360 or a PS3, but at the very least it should be capable of matching the best-looking games on the GameCube.

 

From top to bottom, Twilight Princess is a game that was transparently designed for the GameCube and hacked to work on the Wii. The controls feel kind of shoddy in a lot of ways. I guess what disappoints me most about this game is the lack of ambition and innovation. The Wii has some promising ideas behind it, but if they're content to have their flagship title be Just Another Zelda Game then they're getting off on the wrong foot.

 

I guess if you like the Zelda formula, then you'll like this game. Speaking for myself, though, I can't imagine how anyone really gets excited for them anymore; the recycling of game mechanics ventured into self-parody territory years ago. I really think the series needs to take a cue from Resident Evil 4 and reinvent itself completely. Heck, even the Final Fantasy games manage to make some big changes to the series' conventions with each installation. As it is, everything about Twilight Princess, and pretty much every game in the series aside from The Adventure of Link, smacks of Nintendo being content to play it safe with their big-money series. Give me something new!

 

Hey people, it's FIFA, it's a football game, they change the stats every year - get over it.

 

Hey people, it's Madden, it's an American football game, they change the stats every year - get over it.

 

Hey people, it's Tony Hawks, they slightly refine the concept each time, oh but we give that a perfect 10 because we're wankers.

[fukudasolokomalakikenanze]

A bulk of the CNET Entertainment Network has an Anti-Nintendo feel about it particularly Gamespot and GameFaqs, how Final Fantasy was voted the best game of all time is beyond me [it is a great game, but certainly not the best of all time]. Look through the gamespot forums. Quite a number of people only consider Twilight Princess to be an 8/10 game and that Jeffs score was too high. But at the end of the day, its my opinion of the game that counts, i'll be buying the game and i'll be playing the game, don't need someone to tell me what I should think of the game and how good it actually is and persides, positive opinions far outweigh negative public opinions of the game anyway.

[Zero Seven]

I never let reviews destroy my plans on getting a game until i play it myself. I do however, like coming here to read the "hands on impressions" more than i would want to read a game sites review. (say IGN for example)

 

I think that I could well possibly like TP more than OoT gameplay wise but i dont think it could ever be as magical for me as OoT was.

 

When i first got OoT, I knew zero spoilers and Zero about it (besides it being Zelda and having played the eariler versions) Even seeing the title appear as Link rides over Hyrule field for the first time on Christmas morning, such a moment.

 

As for Twilight Princess, I have been trying my best not to look at spoilers but sometimes it seems like the spoilers find you, not the other way around lol

 

with Ocarina, I didnt have any of this and that made a huge difference... I already know stuff about TP that i sure as hell wish i didnt know...

[Hellfire]

That gamespot guy should hang himself.