Nick Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Oh yes, friend codes. I decided to extend a little on knightendo's comments about friend codes on Wii (in the next Q and A update). He puts forward a very legitimate reason for their existance, however, I feel that it's a stupid system. For Nintendo to be going in a new direction, they really need to shake off any previous image they had (kiddie or not). I'm afraid that friend codes just don't help the 'kiddie' aspect. Although they may be suitable for parental control, the console already has a parental control as it is. This can be used by parents as a filtering system for both games offline and online play. Friend codes are a bulky waste of effort, and ironically make it extremely difficult to arrange a game with a set group of friends, as the staffers have experienced. As it stands now, you're connected with anyone in your friend list that's online at that time. Metroid remedies this a little. But not to a satisfactory extent. And you still can't speak to starngers. If Nintendo had just one friend code, it might be a different scenario, and one much more similar to Xbox Live. What do you guys think?
solitanze Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 "Friend codes are a bulky waste of effort, and ironically make it extremely difficult to arrange a game with a set group of friends, as the staffers have experienced..." Implementing this sort of system really doesn't fit in with Nintendos approach to attract non gamers with a simplified gaming interface with the Wii by making it more clumbersome to arrange an online gaming session. As we know, Nintendo wants to make the Wii an affordable console, would it cost a substantially larger amount of money to implement a Universal friend code system? Edit by Moria - Just putting in the quote tags for you
knightendo Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 cool, never thought any of my comments would prompt a thread lol. i understand you nick, i really do, and yes i completely agree that having multiple codes for each game is too messy a system. for the ds i feel it is fine as this is a very simple online system, but i agree that for wii it must be improved upon. maybe i've picked you up wrong before now, i assumed that you wished to have direct communication with complete strangers even during the first play session with that person. personally i think that this can't happen, and not just because of the kids, but because if ninty are trying to attract non-gamers, the last thing that should happen is for them to be "attacked" online by, for example, a foul-mouthed sore loser. if, however, you simply meant having the current friends code system would be rubbish, but that one of some sort would be needed, then i completely agree. i can see nintendo still calling it your "friend code" perhaps, but hopefully we'll get one code/i.d and that will cover all games, so like you said before, we can go online and see what everyone is playing. i think having a rivals system like hunters would be good, with the option of then adding these rivals to your list of people you can have direct communique with. maybe then kids can be protected, so can newbies, and any hardore gamers and adults who wish to do so can talk to strangers once they've played them if they so wish. what do you think? is this something similar to what you were thinking...?
Gaijin von Snikbah Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Maybe we should have friend cods in real life too? If I wanted to speak with someone i would need to have their friend code. I think that there is much more crap happening outside the internet, than through the use of it.
knightendo Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 nick, with the way ninty is being so secretive with the wii online system, do you think this is because it'll be a much different system than the ds one? was just thinking that if we were gonna be forced to have the exact same wfc system they woulda announced it by now, you know? and substeinar, it is much easier to abuse the net than it is face-to-face. look at our angry halo 2 player for example
Nick Posted August 30, 2006 Author Posted August 30, 2006 ...what do you think? is this something similar to what you were thinking...? Kind of. But gamers shouldn't be limited to it. You should be able to give out your friend code online also, rather than have to arrange it via MSN or some other IM service, or in person. Of course, either you have to give permission for someone to access it, or they request it, not just look at a profile and see what it is. The internet can be damning, yes, but so can every aspect in life, not just limited to computers and such. The need to 'okay' someone to allow them to speak to you after a session or whatever doesn't really make things better in my opinion. It kind of kills it. I mean, what if we had friend codes in real life, and you saw someone in a park playing a DS or PSP? You can't simply ask what they're playing, what they're interested in, etc. You would need some sort of permission to do so. This would prevent many friendships that have developed this way from ever occuring. The majority of friends that people will make are most likely starngers. nick, with the way ninty is being so secretive with the wii online system, do you think this is because it'll be a much different system than the ds one? was just thinking that if we were gonna be forced to have the exact same wfc system they woulda announced it by now, you know? There is a slight possibility, but the fact that it has been confirmed that friend codes will be used defies it. Nintendo has been known to go back on their word, but vary rarely. And often for worse outcomes.
knightendo Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Kind of. But gamers shouldn't be limited to it. You should be able to give out your friend code online also, rather than have to arrange it via MSN or some other IM service, or in person. Of course, either you have to give permission for someone to access it, or they request it, not just look at a profile and see what it is. The need to 'okay' someone to allow them to speak to you after a session or whatever doesn't really make things better in my opinion. It kind of kills it. I mean, what if we had friend codes in real life, and you saw someone in a park playing a DS or PSP? You can't simply ask what they're playing, what they're interested in, etc. You would need some sort of permission to do so. This would prevent many friendships that have developed this way from ever occuring. The majority of friends that people will make are most likely starngers. did you not just contradict yourself...? you say you should be able to give it out online, but not have it freely available. then you say that that will restrict friendships forming...? personally, yeh i agree that they should be able to be passed out online. like if you selected someone as a "rival" say, then their code would be downloaded to you, and vice versa. i like the idea of having a great multiplayer game, adding people to my rivals list, having their profile appear and then having the choice of opening communication for the next time we play. you're right though, this should be able to be done thru Wii, not just some external source like msn etc. hopefully nintendo saying they're keeping "friends codes" will mean one of two things: either that it will be like a gamertag but simply named "friend code", or: that maybe there'll be more open play but that the friends code system can be the default through some form of parental lock, giving us adults the choice.
Nick Posted August 30, 2006 Author Posted August 30, 2006 did you not just contradict yourself...? you say you should be able to give it out online, but not have it freely available. then you say that that will restrict friendships forming...?... I don't see the contradiction. Having a friend code and speaking to people are two completely different things. As friend codes are now, you cannot, in any way, divulge friend codes in a gaming session. At all, unless you put it in your avatar and people are able to read it... And you can't speak to others without friend codes. You should have the ability to speak to anyone, at any time, if you choose to, either verbally or as text. Then, if you decide they are a gamer you like, or have similar interests, you are able to trade friend codes/IDs, and they will be added to a list of friends/rivals or whatever. If not, add them to some sort of ignore or ban list. pretty simple.
Kazzahdrane Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Friends Codes suck. Nintendo need a more robust system for Wii online. This is a big worry for me, but then I remember that even single-player and offline multiplayer should be awesome.
knightendo Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 I don't see the contradiction. Having a friend code and speaking to people are two completely different things. As friend codes are now, you cannot, in any way, divulge friend codes in a gaming session. At all, unless you put it in your avatar and people are able to read it... And you can't speak to others without friend codes. You should have the ability to speak to anyone, at any time, if you choose to, either verbally or as text. Then, if you decide they are a gamer you like, or have similar interests, you are able to trade friend codes/IDs, and they will be added to a list of friends/rivals or whatever. If not, add them to some sort of ignore or ban list. pretty simple. ah right, i see. yeh, i can see what you mean. hopefully nintendo are simply keeping the "friends code" moniker as a way of attracting those that like the current system. add in some form of parental control and it should be fine. really, i don't see any reason not to have a system like this that you're describing, one that gives the user the chance to chat or not, and add people to their list if they also wish. at the very least nintendo, give us one code for all games, and give us a way of adding strangers to our lists thru a gaming session!
Phube Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 My problem would be a specific fried code for a system or game on a sytem (like the DS) Okay so most household will have more than one DS (if two or three people play them) but who will have more than one Wii (not many!!) in which case do my girlfriend have to go 'on-line' as Phube?? Cause this'd be really annoying!!
knightendo Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 My problem would be a specific fried code for a system or game on a sytem (like the DS) Okay so most household will have more than one DS (if two or three people play them) but who will have more than one Wii (not many!!) in which case do my girlfriend have to go 'on-line' as Phube?? Cause this'd be really annoying!! i'm sure you'll be able to create more than one profile since nintendo want the whole family to play on Wii.
InvaderElmo Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 I don't see why Nintendo would keep the DS system of using different friend codes for each game. As far as I can tell, that was necessary on the DS because there is no way to update DS firmware, so friend codes have to be stored on the game cartridges themselves. Since the Wii console will have an online strategy planned from the get-go, as well as having internal/removable storage, it would actually be simpler to have universal "friend codes" or accounts through which different people accessed everything: system preferences, Opera bookmarks/history, online stats, and perhaps even saved games. This would allow parents to mark some accounts as "all-access" and some as "minor/restricted-access." It would be the "simple" way to do things, as most people have logged into a computer at least once in their life. Personally, I'm not too worried about Nintendo's online strategy. I know that they want it to be simple and safe. They got a lot of whining about the individual friend codes used in the DS system, and despite their constant defending of their DS strategy they should know not to repeat their own mistakes. Wii is supposed to be all about applying the lessons learned over the past decade.
Blue_Ninja0 Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 I don't see why Nintendo would keep the DS system of using different friend codes for each game. As far as I can tell, that was necessary on the DS because there is no way to update DS firmware, so friend codes have to be stored on the game cartridges themselves. Quoted For the Truth. It would be really hard to implement an Xbox live system in DS. The firmware is not upgradable and the save space in it is very limited. I hate the friend codes system and i believe the Wii will not use them in the same fashion the DS did. Let's hope we have something easier to use.
Patch Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Oh yes, friend codes. Was there ever such a universally hated system as Friend Codes. I don't mind them. I think the basic idea behind them is sound, but the games that utilise them need to be more flexible. Metroid Prime Hunters compared to Mario Kart is much better, but still there's room for improvement. I'm not much of an online player so I don't know much about online game systems, so I apologise if I sound like I'm talking rubbish (which I probably am). I presume that no matter what game or system it's running on, each player needs some way of identifying the players that they'd like to play with. We'll call this the Identification Process. This may be visually seeing a character in a lobby with a name floating above their head. Or perusing a simple list of people online. Or in the case of Mario Kart, it's pretty much an automatic process where the game handles the identification for you and, as an added extra, gives you no choice about which friends you play with. The Identification Process relies upon each player having a Unique ID. I suppose this Unique ID is often a username, just as all members of N-Europe have a unique username. In the case of Mario Kart, it is a cumbersome Friend Code. But for all online games, and here is where I may be talking rubbish, one thing remains the same: Each player must have prior knowledge before playing a game of how to identify their friends*. For instance, you would need to contact your friends to find out what they have called themselves, so that when you see them in a lobby, you know who they are. Friend Codes are no different to this. Sure, they're more cumbersome, but you still need to swap them with your friends so that the Identification Process works. So yes, I think they can be improved. Surely there's a less cumbersome way of swapping Unique IDs. Also, lobbies (A Friends lobby and a Strangers lobby perhaps) in a game would be nice, but that's down to how much work the developer wants to put in. That's something else we shouldn't forget - a third party developer would find it very very easy to get an online game up and running, without the hassle of creating an impressive Identification Process. * The alternative to this is storing lots of information about a person that can be viewable by everyone ingame, but I, for one, would detest that idea.
Charlie Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Personally, I'd rather wait a year with no online play, then getting 1 proper name, than have multiple friend codes.
Kazzahdrane Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Personally, I'd rather wait a year with no online play, then getting 1 proper name, than have multiple friend codes. True dat, I'd happily wait too.
raven_blade2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 All im sayin is that Nintendo have the patents to do what we are requesting. Lets hope they use them. The DS is more limited compared to Wii. Thats why Friend Codes are stored on the game carts and not the console. Wii has built in memory so it should be far easier for Nintendo to make a seamless online experience. Im backing them to prove their doubters wrong and deliver on what we want.
Nick Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 All im sayin is that Nintendo have the patents to do what we are requesting. Lets hope they use them. The DS is more limited compared to Wii. Thats why Friend Codes are stored on the game carts and not the console. Wii has built in memory so it should be far easier for Nintendo to make a seamless online experience. Im backing them to prove their doubters wrong and deliver on what we want. It could have been done on the DS. Every DS has an individual ID. This marries with the WiFi game (Mario Kart, Metroid, etc.) when the network settings are configured for that game. That's why you must use the DS the game first went online with in order to play online. Nintendo are just being hyper inefficient.
raven_blade2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 It could have been done on the DS. Every DS has an individual ID. This marries with the WiFi game (Mario Kart, Metroid, etc.) when the network settings are configured for that game. That's why you must use the DS the game first went online with in order to play online. Nintendo are just being hyper inefficient. As long as they come out with the right end result for Wii's Online Service I will be happy.
DCK Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Hopefully there'll be some sort of friend manager in the Wii that makes things easy. And one friend code per Wii please.
Cube Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Friend codes are a bulky waste of effort, and ironically make it extremely difficult to arrange a game with a set group of friends, as the staffers have experienced. As it stands now, you're connected with anyone in your friend list that's online at that time. Metroid remedies this a little. But not to a satisfactory extent. And you still can't speak to starngers. Just wondering, since when did Nintendo say that they were using the same system as the DS? All I've heard is they are using "Friend Codes". Lets just think about things logically: Nintendo have an online Virtual Console, with games available for download, right? The only way they can stop people from sharing them is having a system-specific "Friend Code" linked to an online database, with information on which games have been "bought" (this could be used for organising online updates through Connect24, too). Think Steam. This makes it very likely that "Friend Codes" will be system-based. Now, if the Friend Codes are system-based, this allows Nintendo to easily do the following things: 1. Each user can have a username used in every game - which would allow more than one person having the same name. 2. Nintendo can keep track of what game each user is playing online. 3. If Nintendo want, they can have an online "Friends List", either out-of-game, specifying what game, if any, your Friends are playing online, or within a game, showing the ones currently online for this game. 4. From here there are a number of options possible for Nintendo (or developers) to implement, such as "Start friend game" (and the friends get a symbol somewhere on the screen saying they are "invited" to play), or (probably unlikely, but could be done) "Invite" specific friends. Now, something like that will: 1. Make it easy for non-gamers 2. Satisfy hardcore gamers needs 3. Provide security for VC-downloaded games 4. Provide a means of organising Connect24 downloads. I think something similar to what I said will be used, but then, it's just guesswork
Kazzahdrane Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Yep, that's what many of us have been saying all along. You're not alone Whether Nintendo take the initiative and do the sensible thing remains to be seen, however.
KKOB Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 i wish friend codes would die!!! Gametags rule!!! the end.
Raven Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Just wondering, since when did Nintendo say that they were using the same system as the DS? All I've heard is they are using "Friend Codes". Lets just think about things logically: Nintendo have an online Virtual Console, with games available for download, right? The only way they can stop people from sharing them is having a system-specific "Friend Code" linked to an online database, with information on which games have been "bought" (this could be used for organising online updates through Connect24, too). Think Steam. This makes it very likely that "Friend Codes" will be system-based. Now, if the Friend Codes are system-based, this allows Nintendo to easily do the following things: 1. Each user can have a username used in every game - which would allow more than one person having the same name. 2. Nintendo can keep track of what game each user is playing online. 3. If Nintendo want, they can have an online "Friends List", either out-of-game, specifying what game, if any, your Friends are playing online, or within a game, showing the ones currently online for this game. 4. From here there are a number of options possible for Nintendo (or developers) to implement, such as "Start friend game" (and the friends get a symbol somewhere on the screen saying they are "invited" to play), or (probably unlikely, but could be done) "Invite" specific friends. Now, something like that will: 1. Make it easy for non-gamers 2. Satisfy hardcore gamers needs 3. Provide security for VC-downloaded games 4. Provide a means of organising Connect24 downloads. I think something similar to what I said will be used, but then, it's just guesswork agreed. the best possible thing that nintendo could do (in my opinion) is make the friend code list like a 'msn messenger' type thing. where you could log onto 'wii-online', see which of your friends is there (via friend codes), and organise games with them that way. i havent had anything to do with friend codes, as i dont have a ds. so me saying 'they cant be too bad' would just send everyone up into a rage of sorts. but nintendo believe (as do i) that the parental control factor is a necessary. if some little girl was to log onto 'mario kart online' because she finds the game fun, we dont need a bunch of dicks trash talking and making a nuisense of themselves. play any online game and you will know they exist. if it was carried out in a 'friend list' kind of way, there will still be that element of freedom. one could EASILY jump onto, for example, the n-europe forum and post their wii-code onto the board and have a quite a large number of people to play against. anyway, as mentioned earlier, this is just my opinion. this is the kind of system that would work best for me... (and this is the point where everyone tells me im wrong...)
Recommended Posts