The terms of smash

[The Bard]

Actually, it is more fun, the better you get, the better your opponents want to get, and the more the sense of competition there is, anyway, how can anyone say they don't love it when they're able to kick everyones ass at a game, I know I sure love the feeling. Don't get bitter because you can't be arsed mastering these moves and you know other people have and are better at this game than you...

[thesupersmashbrother]

So true. There was a time when i beat everyone (the pikachu is>you era) and i found it very fun (pikachu has about 1500 more KOs than he has falls ) but i was shocked when everyone improved an it became competitive. I still beat most of my mates though now i use falco, and its always competitive when i play goron3.

 

The way i see it is if you r better than ur mates, then you're having fun beating them.

If youre as good as ur mates then its very fun because its competitive.

If youre not as good as ur mates then you can either sulk and not play anymore or you can get better to make the game fun for yourself again.

[The3rdChildren]

I play to have fun, winning is just an occasional byproduct of that.

[thesupersmashbrother]

I play to have fun, winning is just an occasional byproduct of that.

 

True, but if you lost all the time it wouldnt really be that fun now would it?

[|Laguna|]

People lose sight that a game is meant to be enjoyed, not to be studied over and to practisced in a chaore like manner. It just saps all fun out of the game.

And in general, people enjoy the game to begin with, so they play it more, so they get better, so they play more, and thus the cycle continues.

 

Another minor issue I have is with the length of your name and how it always enlongments the user name box on threads, but meh, not a big issue, just a minor irratant.

[thesupersmashbrother]

It annoys me too, but i cant change it now, and at least i can track my posts fairly easily.

[Goron_3]

True, but if you lost all the time it wouldnt really be that fun now would it?

 

Well put. When I was n00b link and Thesupersmashbrother played as pikachu, i lost to him a few time and i dnt think I beat him (he used to be better than me) and this was hard for me as I had never been beaten easily before. Then I learnt all the advanced techniques as Marth forcing him to play as Falco, and now it's so much fun. I'd say, and im sure he'll admit this, I'm a tad better and my win ratio is higher, but our fights are so close. Getting better and learning to advanced techniques does make the matches alot more fun.

[thesupersmashbrother]

Well put. When I was n00b link and Thesupersmashbrother played as pikachu, i lost to him a few time and i dnt think I beat him (he used to be better than me) and this was hard for me as I had never been beaten easily before. Then I learnt all the advanced techniques as Marth forcing him to play as Falco, and now it's so much fun. I'd say, and im sure he'll admit this, I'm a tad better and my win ratio is higher, but our fights are so close. Getting better and learning to advanced techniques does make the matches alot more fun.

 

Your win ratio may be slightly higher but I will never concede in saying that you're better than me. You just wait till smash bash 3. I'll put you in your place.

[The3rdChildren]

It's times like this I worry about playing Smash Bros Brawl online, I really do.

[The Bard]

You should, because unless you're good at it, you're going to get your ass kicked so hard you won't have any fun at all, hence the reason you should get better, keep focused on how much satisfaction you get when you master a move or technique and are a better player as a result.

[The3rdChildren]

You should, because unless you're good at it, you're going to get your ass kicked so hard you won't have any fun at all, hence the reason you should get better, keep focused on how much satisfaction you get when you master a move or technique and are a better player as a result.

 

I meant I was worried about playing it online because it's going to become saturated with "ELITE" idiots who play with all these silly techniques. I think I'll just stick to the same group I play Halo with, no problems that way.

 

Purely my opinion here, but is there really all that much to master aside a few short combos and the like? Unless you mean mastering moves by playing the way the creators never intended you to?

[Goron_3]

I meant I was worried about playing it online because it's going to become saturated with "ELITE" idiots who play with all these silly techniques. I think I'll just stick to the same group I play Halo with, no problems that way.

 

Purely my opinion here, but is there really all that much to master aside a few short combos and the like? Unless you mean mastering moves by playing the way the creators never intended you to?

 

1. Wavedashing was discovered by the designers and left in deliberately.

2. You call these silly techniques...So according to you, SHFFL and air attack (short hopping and fastfalling and air attack) doesn't make a different, because believe me it does.

3. 'Silly idiots' makes no sense, because they have just played the game enough to do these skills without messing up. Tbh, when you play online smash against these 'Elite players' as you call them, you will realise how useful these techniques are. I thought they were pointless until I lost to my friend Matt, then i realised I was gona have to get good, and now i rekon i could beat these Pros (well maybe, I've seen a lot of vids and i think i could....). Anyway, these advanced techniques arent for you if you don't want to use them, but when you realise what smash is like when you learn some basic skills and can apply them often against a skilled opponent, you'll love online smash more than your mum

[Tyson]

The least you could have done is given credit to the person who actually wrote this. He/she must have put alot of effort into this and you tried to hold the praise. It's a good job people here actually go to that forum.

[thesupersmashbrother]

I meant I was worried about playing it online because it's going to become saturated with "ELITE" idiots who play with all these silly techniques. I think I'll just stick to the same group I play Halo with, no problems that way.

 

Purely my opinion here, but is there really all that much to master aside a few short combos and the like? Unless you mean mastering moves by playing the way the creators never intended you to?

 

I'd rather be an "elite idiot" than an ignorant n00b.

[The3rdChildren]

1. Wavedashing was discovered by the designers and left in deliberately.

2. You call these silly techniques...So according to you, SHFFL and air attack (short hopping and fastfalling and air attack) doesn't make a different, because believe me it does.

3. 'Silly idiots' makes no sense, because they have just played the game enough to do these skills without messing up. Tbh, when you play online smash against these 'Elite players' as you call them, you will realise how useful these techniques are. I thought they were pointless until I lost to my friend Matt, then i realised I was gona have to get good, and now i rekon i could beat these Pros (well maybe, I've seen a lot of vids and i think i could....). Anyway, these advanced techniques arent for you if you don't want to use them, but when you realise what smash is like when you learn some basic skills and can apply them often against a skilled opponent, you'll love online smash more than your mum

 

If they did leave wavedashing in the game deliberately, can you show me some proof of this? I'm fairly sure a glitch is a glitch and wouldn't have been left in deliberately.

 

But most of these things aren't basic skills, they're exploits. Holes found in the game design that you guys learn to take advantage of and decide that's how everyone should play. I'm also fairly sure you "pro players" don't play with items either, which is part of what Smash Bros. is about. If everyone was supposed to use your "skills", then they'd have been mentioned in the "How to play" movie in the Japanese version of the game, or demonstrated in the manual. I don't see wavedashing in the manual.

 

I don't think "getting good" at a game should entail being better at exploits than your opponent. But if that's what Smash Bros Melee has become in the pro-gaming scene, I'm sure glad I'm no part of it.

 

I'd rather be an "elite idiot" than an ignorant n00b.

 

Haha. Ignorance is bliss.

[Shino]

I don't really care about this "techniques", I'm usualy not the winner when I play with my friends and that doesn't take the fun of it, I prefer a calm and relaxed match then some uber fight with someone that might ruin whatever virtual reputation I have.

[Owario]

This argument is silly. People should not be forced into learning advanced techniques so they can have fun with the game, and yet at the same time people who do take the time to learn them should not be criticised for doing so. It's a matter of preference.

[thesupersmashbrother]

The least you could have done is given credit to the person who actually wrote this. He/she must have put alot of effort into this and you tried to hold the praise. It's a good job people here actually go to that forum.

 

I did. .

 

Thank you at least you're my friend... well i copied and pasted it off this site:

 

http://www.smashboards.com

 

I suggest you explore this site and I promise that you will improve your game. These guys know their stuff.

[Goron_3]

If they did leave wavedashing in the game deliberately, can you show me some proof of this? I'm fairly sure a glitch is a glitch and wouldn't have been left in deliberately.

 

But most of these things aren't basic skills, they're exploits. Holes found in the game design that you guys learn to take advantage of and decide that's how everyone should play. I'm also fairly sure you "pro players" don't play with items either, which is part of what Smash Bros. is about. If everyone was supposed to use your "skills", then they'd have been mentioned in the "How to play" movie in the Japanese version of the game, or demonstrated in the manual. I don't see wavedashing in the manual.

 

I don't think "getting good" at a game should entail being better at exploits than your opponent. But if that's what Smash Bros Melee has become in the pro-gaming scene, I'm sure glad I'm no part of it.

 

 

 

Haha. Ignorance is bliss.

 

You don't need proof. When you make a game, you make a physics engine. Certain things in a physics overlap, and they got rid of any mistakes in the engine, but Wavedashing is something that they couldn't really get rid of anyway, because they would had to of started to engine from basics which is fairly pointless. Also, smash is NOT about playing with items, trust me mate. The game designers know this, anyone good knows it. Items are just a way of getting into the game and to keep people playing Adventure mode etc (especially to get the Mew trophy, All Star on Hard without losing a continue).

Playing with items means the game is VERY boring, honestly, there is no skill factor at all. Learning these advanced techniques takes 10mins, tops. And you say that these techniques are exploits? You mean to say short hopping you air moves and fast falling them is a glitch? I'm pretty sure the developers put both short hopping and fast falling moves into a game. There was also an interview in a magazine when smash came out (think it was in CUBE), and it said that the developers had been playing competitive smash since they finished it and that they didn't play with items on. Smash is about speed and style of the way you win, and by doing this, you have a lot more fun than you could ever have with items, trust me i was an item noob a while back, and so was thesupersmashbrother, and he'd tell you how much better it is. I'm not saying you should learn these things, I'm saying there's no need to criticise the good smash players because they could probably beat you or whatever. Seriously, it takes 10mins to learn the most useful advance technique, tops.

 

Also, being an 'Elite idiot' i think you'll find is a lot more fun and tense, unlike n00b play, which is like Smash attack, Dodge, and repeat. These elite players don't exploit these glitches, and glitches are banned from tounies anyway. If you watch these so called 'Elite Idiots' play, they just know what move to use and when to use it. They don't exploit glitches mate, trust me.

[ShadowV7]

Smash isn't about skill alone,the items make it what it is,your just saying it's about skill because it's the only way you can win because 'noobs' can put up a better fight with items and it annoys you.Since the developers said they play with skill alone alot of fanboys will think that's the way to play.It's about fun not to be serious all the time.Playing with items isn't VERY boring,it brings up fun between people who don't crave to win all the time and don't get me wrong having a good one on one fight with no items is great but the developers added the items for a reason.At the end of day playing with skill or items is up to people themselves not what everyone else says.If you see two 'Elites' play and they both they BOTH know what attacks they're opponent is going to do then they're not 'Elites' at all.

[Zell]

I have to thank goron3 for helping me convert away from items (tbf it was me getting annoyed when i was winning and my opponent got a ray gun and killed me VERY cheaply.

 

I find that items can only be okay if its a friendly 2 on 2 match or a 4 way, and the rubbish items are taken off (red shell, flipper and ray gun). You cannot use it for 1on1s as it just becomes a game of luck, nor can you use timed matches for 1on1s cos you can get 1 kill and then play very defensively and evasively.

 

PS If you havent realise from my signature, its me, thesupersmashbrother:D

[The3rdChildren]

You don't need proof. When you make a game, you make a physics engine. Certain things in a physics overlap, and they got rid of any mistakes in the engine, but Wavedashing is something that they couldn't really get rid of anyway, because they would had to of started to engine from basics which is fairly pointless. Also, smash is NOT about playing with items, trust me mate. The game designers know this, anyone good knows it. Items are just a way of getting into the game and to keep people playing Adventure mode etc (especially to get the Mew trophy, All Star on Hard without losing a continue).

Playing with items means the game is VERY boring, honestly, there is no skill factor at all. Learning these advanced techniques takes 10mins, tops. And you say that these techniques are exploits? You mean to say short hopping you air moves and fast falling them is a glitch? I'm pretty sure the developers put both short hopping and fast falling moves into a game. There was also an interview in a magazine when smash came out (think it was in CUBE), and it said that the developers had been playing competitive smash since they finished it and that they didn't play with items on. Smash is about speed and style of the way you win, and by doing this, you have a lot more fun than you could ever have with items, trust me i was an item noob a while back, and so was thesupersmashbrother, and he'd tell you how much better it is. I'm not saying you should learn these things, I'm saying there's no need to criticise the good smash players because they could probably beat you or whatever. Seriously, it takes 10mins to learn the most useful advance technique, tops.

 

Also, being an 'Elite idiot' i think you'll find is a lot more fun and tense, unlike n00b play, which is like Smash attack, Dodge, and repeat. These elite players don't exploit these glitches, and glitches are banned from tounies anyway. If you watch these so called 'Elite Idiots' play, they just know what move to use and when to use it. They don't exploit glitches mate, trust me.

 

THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS PARAGRAPHING, WHICH IS CONSIDERED BY SOME EASIER ON THE EYES.

 

That's all very nice, but it still doesn't convince me to learn to play as you guys do. I'd rather have fun with items and be a "noob" player than an elite player. Not that being you guys is a bad thing, I'm sure, it's just that I like being myself better. A lot better.

 

I play with items, and I always have a complete blast. Charging up a super scope and scoring a cheeky shot on someone is probably one of the most rewarding item-based kills in the game. It's cheap and it's totally luck-based, but then again I don't play to be skilled or win every time, I just play to have fun. Winning, as I said before, is a byproduct of playing games.

 

Isn't it possible what makes Smash so popular everywhere is the items, which can help a beginner player beat a SUPER ELITE player? I like that level of fairness in games. People who continually dominate everyone get very boring fast, or at least that's how it works with my friends. And I very much doubt it's all that different with other friend groups.

 

I'm under no impression there aren't thousands of gamers better than me at Super Smash Bros. Melee. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say I suck at the game. But I suck at it whilst using items, yelling and having a complete blast. If I wanted to play a seriously skill-based competitive game, I'd pick up a real fighting game. I've had Melee since the Christmas after it's Japanese launch, and still enjoy it as much now as on day one.

 

Lastly addressing the issue with Wavedashing, you said they left it in on purpose. But what you really meant was they left it in because it was a glitch in the movement system and taking it out would have forced them to rewrite a good portion of the code. At least we're clear on that. They'd have taken it out if it was possible, so leaving it in was therefore making it a glitch someone could exploit for faster movement.

 

Trust me, mate.

[Zell]

Isn't it possible what makes Smash so popular everywhere is the items, which can help a beginner player beat a SUPER ELITE player?

 

No that's what makes mario kart popular. In mario kart the item system is handicap based, purposely giving last place a chance of winning, whereas it's not the case in smash bros.

 

You are forgetting that the "elite player" can also pick up these items, so it doesnt really make the crap player win. A "noob" would probably not beat an "elite" if he got 3 hammers in 2 minutes. Items dont really balance the field in smash bros, it just makes it more unpredictable.

 

But you probably mainly play 3 or 4 player matches anyway, which are highly unpredictable and uncompetitive anyway, and items just make the game more manic anyway, which I have to say can be quite fun.

 

If I wanted to play a seriously skill-based competitive game, I'd pick up a real fighting game.

 

In case you dont know, smash is considered by many as one of the most skill based games ever, and is a real fighting game (if I am not mistaken, the characters are fighting eachother in a 2D environment). It is much more skilful than games like Tekken (learn massive combos when you're on your own) and Soul Calibur (good but a button basher).

[Goron_3]

Ok let's all agree. We all have different types of playing and aslong as we have fun like Nintendo want us to, it's all good. If i play you guys on Online smash, i would gladly play with items on, just don't go saying you're better than me if you win :P

[Zell]

But if you lose you will probably know why!