Patch Posted May 15, 2006 Posted May 15, 2006 Yep, I meant that I wish they'd kept it for the non-Jap releases of the game. Thanks '...' Did anyone notice in that Galaxy vid that Mario seemed almost to pass through the Bullet Bills? I suppose it was because they were at a higher altitude than Mario, but it looked odd when I saw it. And I was really hoping Mario would fall into the centre of the first planet - I'm dying to see what happens when you do!
wackman Posted May 15, 2006 Posted May 15, 2006 Yep, I meant that I wish they'd kept it for the non-Jap releases of the game. Thanks '...' Did anyone notice in that Galaxy vid that Mario seemed almost to pass through the Bullet Bills? I suppose it was because they were at a higher altitude than Mario, but it looked odd when I saw it. And I was really hoping Mario would fall into the centre of the first planet - I'm dying to see what happens when you do! Mario dies when he falls in....
Patch Posted May 15, 2006 Posted May 15, 2006 How disappointing. I was hoping he'd either miss the core and swing out the other side or hit the core and jump back up with his bum on fire, a la Mario 64.
... Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 This may sound stupid to some of you, but I don't like the fact that you see Mario's shadow when an object is between him and the camera.
Jamba Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Could be a way of letting you see where he is when the object is in the way? I don't really understand what you mean but be aware that this hasn't been finished or polished yet.
Hellfire Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 So you'd prefer not to see him at all and have no clue whatsoever what the hell you're doing? Hey, whatever tickles your fancy.
AshMat Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Yeah, i want invisible mario, how confusing would that be
... Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Well, Hellfire, if you have "no clue whatsoever what the hell you're doing" while you play Mario 64 or any other game besides Mario Sunshine, then that's your problem. I think the game mechanics of Mario 64 were perfect. Mario Sunshine introduced that shadow to allow you to see Mario through the scenery and I never liked that function. It feels artificial. There were a couple of situations where that was well implemented, like in the wormholes, but anything besides that I think is superfluous. If gamers don't want their game characters to melt with the scenery because of bad collision detection, then why should we want to see our characters through solid surfaces? Mario 64 introduced gamers to the concept of controlling the game camera. Well, let's use that game mechanic. I warned that some of you might find this stupid, but I didn't think you'd use stupid reasons to counterattack. :p
Hellfire Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Level design is a tricky business and certain measures must be taken in order to keep the gaming experience intact, if you have to make levels that are heavilly restricted by the camera, the level design will suffer a lot. This technique was a great invention and it's very usefull. It has nothing to do with clipping and collision detection. You control the charatcer, you are the character, but since not all games are in first person you must be able to control the character in all situations. You find my reasons stupid, so what should I say about your logic?
... Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 Let's just say that your reasoning changed from one post to the other, don't play dumb. I have never felt out of control of my character or not knowing what the hell I was doing in any well designed game. And Nintendo games are well designed. You said that phrase as if you never knew what the hell you were doing in games until that feature was invented. I didn't say it had anything to do with collision detection, I made a comparison about solid objects handling in games. I truly feel it is an unnecessary measure, unless it plays integral part in the game design, as it does in certain parts of Mario Sunshine, like the already mentioned wormholes and the various tunnels in Noki Bay, for instance. But to have a Mario shadow whenever you pass behind a tree is pointless, IMO. Anyway, I was just saying. Having an argument here about such nitpicking isn't going to change anything, so good gaming.
Patch Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 If there was one flaw to Mario 64, in my opinion it was the camera. Having to alter its position to make Mario visible or to put him in a better view was time-consuming and detracting from the platforming experience. I think this was improved enormously in Super Mario Sunshine where the shadow made it less necessary to move the camera.
... Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 Ok, well that's where we see different. I think the fact you had to play with the camera in Mario 64 was one of its qualities, That, along with all the full 3D and analog controlling, was what gave that enormous sense of freedom and real 3D. And what do you mean time consuming? The game doesn't have a time limit, so why does it matter? I like to take my time with games, that's why I prefer stealth over action. I also don't think it was detracting from the platforming experience, it enhanced it. You jump to one platform, and then to jump to the other, you sometimes had to adjust the camera, and so on. I think that enhances the experience, rather than just speeding your way jumping till the end.
Hellfire Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 My reasoning changed? Yeah wtvr The thing I'm worried about Mario and Zelda is that I don't know if you can control the camera like the GC versions. Sunshine's camera was awesome and WW was perfect, so I'm kind of worried.
Tellyn Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 By shadow do you mean Mario's outline that appeared when the camera was at the other side of the building? It was helpful in places if you don't know if there's enemies near, but a bit annoying.
Jamba Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 Ok, well that's where we see different. I think the fact you had to play with the camera in Mario 64 was one of its qualities, That, along with all the full 3D and analog controlling, was what gave that enormous sense of freedom and real 3D. And what do you mean time consuming? The game doesn't have a time limit, so why does it matter? I like to take my time with games, that's why I prefer stealth over action. I also don't think it was detracting from the platforming experience, it enhanced it. You jump to one platform, and then to jump to the other, you sometimes had to adjust the camera, and so on. I think that enhances the experience, rather than just speeding your way jumping till the end. I know that the above is your opinion but just to let you know, one of the most reported complaints about the early 3D games was the camera (particularly in games like Mario and Tombraider). This was seen as a solution to the problem and was therefore also added to SM63:DS. You seem to like the object realism of the game design but don't forget that it's not about things being conventional for Nintendo. They will do whatever they think is necessary to make the playing experience more fun. I think chaging this particular feature would frustrate most gamers.
DCK Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 I wouldn't be worried about the camera. You can probably just press a button like +, -, 1 or 2 and then control the camera with Wiimote. Easy and intuitive.
... Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 I know that the above is your opinion but just to let you know, one of the most reported complaints about the early 3D games was the camera (particularly in games like Mario and Tombraider). I am aware of that, I lived through those times. But I also remember that Mario 64 was the game that had less complaints about the camera, even though it was the first one to use it! Banjo Kazooie had an absolutely atrocious camera in certain places and so did many others, but Mario 64 remained the most perfect example of an adjustable 3D camera. Then came Zelda OOT, which isn't really adjustable (all you can do is press Z to center it behind Link) but was also pretty perfect.
Hellfire Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 Let me tell you how to do it right, just so we're all on the same page: you need to relax. You are not trying to rein in a bronco, at least, not until someone makes a game actually based on bronco reining. This was the trick I needed to get down before I understood how to play. Elbows loose. Wrist loose. Relax. I wasn't aware how tense I usually am when playing games. This is a marked departure. You know that we're talking about an incremental move graphically, and I think that most people have made their peace with it provided they're able to get something that genuinely feels new from the gameplay. I won't string you along any further: the Wii, when coupled with a visionary developer, is more than capable of delivering this. I literally felt torn away from Super Mario Galaxy. I have told you before that I hate playing games at E3, that I believe a worse environment for the enjoyment of interactive entertainment could not be engineered on purpose. Something pure managed to survive that hostile environment and find purchase, and when this son of a bitch hits a kiosk walk directly up to the machine and play it. A platform game where tiny worlds are the platforms while boundless space fills in the cracks essentially feels amazing. But what is a button press on any other system is now a physical motion with a mirror in a simulated world, and it feels good. There is something here, independent of the marketing machine, that deserves recognition and praise. Wow the folks at PA actually like Galaxy? They're usually VERY harsh and well... jackasses about a lot of games, so this surprises me.
Stocka Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 As excited as I am I have one worry from watching footage, the camera. I hope you can control it as it looks a bit dodgy at times. The whole world looks beautiful I must say.
Hero-of-Time Posted May 19, 2006 Posted May 19, 2006 I dunno if this has been shown yet but its Mario fighting a spider boss. http://uk.media.revolution.ign.com/media/748/748588/vids_1.html Graphically I am pretty impressed by the way this looks.
Stocka Posted May 19, 2006 Posted May 19, 2006 Yeah it's superb isn't it! I'm very happy with the direction Nintendo have decided to take with Mario.
Jamba Posted May 19, 2006 Posted May 19, 2006 They've also got that massive mecha boss. It looks like something out of Sonic really but it's crazy!
Hellfire Posted May 19, 2006 Posted May 19, 2006 You can't control the camera :S Which has me worried about this and future games and Zelda. WW camera was so perfect... I don't know...
That Guy Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 You can't control the camera :S Which has me worried about this and future games and Zelda. WW camera was so perfect... I don't know... Yeah, I know what you mean. WW is the best camera I've ever seen in a 3d game. I had literally no problems throughout the game with it. This was down to being able to position the camera with the c-stick though and now thats gone, whats going to happen?
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