Oxigen_Waste Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 And you're not trolling me? Just... how can... I can't even begin to understand that. =/
Cube Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I fully agree with Serebii. While it does have the odd naff episodes, it's mostly really good. Out of interest, what awards were these? Edit: Oh. The N-E ones. Edited January 21, 2012 by Cube
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I fully agree with Serebii. While it does have the odd naff episodes, it's mostly really good. Out of interest, what awards were these? Our awards. It tied with Chuck as runner up to Game Of Thrones in the voting for best TV thingy of the year.
S.C.G Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I just see it as an entertaining series, generally there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of TV programmes that I regularly watch so whenever Dr Who is on, I'll watch it as it's quite often great fun. I can see where you're coming from though Oxigen when you compare it to something like Game of Thrones but I suppose they are for vastly different audiences, I for one am interested in watching GoT but it's not airing on Freeview (yet) so if and when it does of course naturally I'll watch it whenever it's on or failing that get it on DVD perhaps assuming it's due a release soon/already out? But as for Dr Who... I'd only watch it when it's on TV, I wouldn't have any need to buy it on DVD because once I've seen an episode I don't really feel a re-watch is necessary whereas I suspect Game of Thrones could warrant several viewings. I'm not too fussed about which is 'better' and besides that's not what this is about as you stated you were simply curious much like I am about GoT due to all the good things I've been hearing about it, they certainly both have something to offer though.
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I don't know, I have nothing against it, it's just that whenever I've watched it I've felt it was pretty much like a B-movie... you know, like Lexx or Farscape or whatever... I just thought it was tremendously campy/corny. And I seriously did think people watched it more for shits and giggles than anything. I don't mean to offend anyone, I was actually just curious if people were seriously into it or if it was more like a joke thing... then again every single sci-fi show I've tried to watch resulted in me laughing at it. Except for BSG... and Firefly, for the most part. I guess I'm just biased towards sci-fi. =/ Of course, I'm not even trying to compare it against more serious drama stuff like GoT.
S.C.G Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Perhaps compare was the wrong word, I'm aware that there is no real comparison to be made I was just trying to illustrate the point that both shows are for very different audiences... of course that doesn't mean that an audience from one couldn't be an audience for the other, variety is spice etc but yes, I'd have to say that Dr Who is just something I watch when it's on, I'll have the odd thought about it afterwards but then not so much; I reckon Game of Thrones would be something that I could take more 'seriously' to a point but it's all entertainment of some form or another when it comes down to it.
Hamishmash Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I don't know, I have nothing against it, it's just that whenever I've watched it I've felt it was pretty much like a B-movie... you know, like Lexx or Farscape or whatever... I just thought it was tremendously campy/corny. And I seriously did think people watched it more for shits and giggles than anything. I don't mean to offend anyone, I was actually just curious if people were seriously into it or if it was more like a joke thing... then again every single sci-fi show I've tried to watch resulted in me laughing at it. Except for BSG... and Firefly, for the most part. I guess I'm just biased towards sci-fi. =/ Of course, I'm not even trying to compare it against more serious drama stuff like GoT. The difference between Doctor Who and Farscape and all those kinds of Sci-Fi shows is that Doctor Who HONESTLY doesn't take itself too seriously. Doctor Who is a family show, it's more of a fairy-tale set in space and time then a proper sci-fi show, and it's always been that. It has such a massive history now that it is very self referencial and tongue-in-cheek in places, but one of the reasons it HAS survived so long is it's quality. It genuinely is a well made, well written, well acted show. It has genuine emotion, purpose, etc. You do care about the characters. In that respect it is just as "serious" as any other critically acclaimed show (which Doctor Who is), but the difference is Doctor Who almost... relishes in the campness. They don't redesign the Daleks to look all bad-ass and CGI... they're multi-coloured pepper pots because that's what Doctor Who is about. It makes you feel like a kid again.. it's adventure, it's camp, it's funny, it's big and epic and silly - but that doesn't mean it's bad at all. It just makes it one of the most unique and entertaining shows on telly. Game of Thrones may very well be the "better show", but you can't poo-poo Doctor Who just because it's popular. There is a reason why it is.
Nintendohnut Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Wait, you DIDN'T laugh at Firefly? But....it was supposed to be funny...
Grazza Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 @Oxigen_Waste How familiar are you with Doctor Who since, say 2005? Unfortunately, I no longer enjoy the programme and don't even know why I watch it. However, the 2005 season with Christopher Eccleston (generally called New Season One) was absolutely brilliant, as was Season Two (with David Tennant) and about half of Season Three. Season Four and the specials were very patchy and though I admire Karen Gillan and Matt Smith, I'm afraid the show has now become something I hardly enjoy. But... if you've watched some of the best episodes like "Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways", "The Girl in the Fireplace", "Army of Ghosts/Doomsday", "Smith and Jones" or "Utopia" and you don't think they're good, we simply have very, very different tastes.
LegoMan1031 Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Doctor Who is ace! Mostly enjoyable, although it does have the odd poor ep.
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 The difference between Doctor Who and Farscape and all those kinds of Sci-Fi shows is that Doctor Who HONESTLY doesn't take itself too seriously. Doctor Who is a family show, it's more of a fairy-tale set in space and time then a proper sci-fi show, and it's always been that. It has such a massive history now that it is very self referencial and tongue-in-cheek in places, but one of the reasons it HAS survived so long is it's quality. It genuinely is a well made, well written, well acted show. It has genuine emotion, purpose, etc. You do care about the characters. In that respect it is just as "serious" as any other critically acclaimed show (which Doctor Who is), but the difference is Doctor Who almost... relishes in the campness. They don't redesign the Daleks to look all bad-ass and CGI... they're multi-coloured pepper pots because that's what Doctor Who is about. It makes you feel like a kid again.. it's adventure, it's camp, it's funny, it's big and epic and silly - but that doesn't mean it's bad at all. It just makes it one of the most unique and entertaining shows on telly. Game of Thrones may very well be the "better show", but you can't poo-poo Doctor Who just because it's popular. There is a reason why it is. I mostly agree and respect with most points made. I won't allow well written, though. Or acted. It's competent in both fields, but hardly noteworthy for either. I also have issues with critically acclaimed. Very hardly is it acclaimed. A 70 on Metacritic hardly means acclaim. And you'd be hard pressed to find any non-British critic prasising it in any significant way. Critically, it's "widely accepted as decent", but acclaimed? It isn't. It won awards, yes... but so did most turds out there (and I'm not calling it a turd, I'm just clearing out the fact that awards don't mean shit these days). I'm not poo pooing it because it's popular! Hell, GoT, which I voted for is exceedingly popular itself... I'm poo pooing it because it's weird for me that so many people seem to consider it their favourite show. I can't really process that. I'm not attacking it, I just literally do not comprehend, given that I now you're mostly inteligent and semi cultured individuals, how it could be your favourite show. =S Also, popularity doesn't mean shit... "there is a reason why it is", don't force me to start listing all the Gossip Girls, Two And Half Mens or Big Bang Theories out there... popularity essentially means something's dumb and accessible, in most cases. I know it's not the case, here... but you should refrain from using popularity as an argument for quality! @Oxigen_Waste How familiar are you with Doctor Who since, say 2005? Unfortunately, I no longer enjoy the programme and don't even know why I watch it. However, the 2005 season with Christopher Eccleston (generally called New Season One) was absolutely brilliant, as was Season Two (with David Tennant) and about half of Season Three. Season Four and the specials were very patchy and though I admire Karen Gillan and Matt Smith, I'm afraid the show has now become something I hardly enjoy. But... if you've watched some of the best episodes like "Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways", "The Girl in the Fireplace", "Army of Ghosts/Doomsday", "Smith and Jones" or "Utopia" and you don't think they're good, we simply have very, very different tastes. I saw the whole first new Season and usually just watch it whenever it's on or something (which is rarely, since I don't use the TV that much). But altogether, I've seen maybe around 25 episodes (including the complete 1st season)... And I gotta be honest, it just made me laugh at how camp and corny it was, for the most part. I also don't appreciate that they use elevated vocabulary to mask some plot points as "intelligent" (you know, the whole Big Bang Theory treatment). I don't know, I can't get anything out of it... last episode I saw, Ardal O'Hanlon was playing this terrible cat man... I don't know, it all just reminds me of those terrible australian TV shows I used to watch when I was a kid... the whole reason I leave it on when zapping is to have a laugh... I watch it the same way I watch Garth Marenghi... This was it, exactly. WTF is this bullshit, how do you enjoy this for real?!?!? Also, well acted's coming back to haunt me... well acted? God damn... I don't know, all I see is a bad kid's show, sorry.
Hamishmash Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Watch Vincent and the Doctor. But seriously, a lot of people like it. And it genuinely is well acted, obviously because there's only 2 or 3 returning cast members in each episode it has far more guest stars than most episodes, which means I higher number of bad actors, but really it is a well made show. But it really just isn't your cup of tea, just accept it that a lot of people do like it, care for it, and there's a reason it's lasted 50 years... it has an original concept everyone keeps wanting to return to. It's like Bond, or Sherlock Holmes or Robin Hood. It has become a British legend, and it'll continue for ever. If it gets cancelled it'll be back within 10 years, I can guarantee it. EDIT: Also, Doctor Who is BIG CONCEPT storytelling, so yes, there might be more episodes you dislike. But that's the thing I love. Every week is different. Some episodes are just pure comedy, some are chilling nightmares, some are time travel head fucks, some are Agatha Christie parodies... I mean... it might as well be something like Tales of the Unexpected. Edited January 22, 2012 by Hamishmash
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 The thing is... I thought sci-fi wasn't my cup of tea. 'Till I saw it done right... BSG might not be a best tv show ever contender, but it's certainly well made and perfetly executed. I loved it! Stargate I didn't love but I could certainly understand why people loved. Dr. Who I just look at and see nothing. At all. No redeeming qualities whatsoever. =/ I'm sorry, at this point I'm just randomly hating on the show and poisoning the thread... I don't know why I'm even here anymore... I can't let the well acted thing go, though. Come on. It's decent, yes. It's not good. Hell, it's a struggle to find good acting on most tv productions in general (Cranston in Breaking Bad, McShane in Deadwood, Buscemi in Boardwalk Empire... can't remember any other examples right now). It's decent, meaning it won't detract from your enjoyment... but that's about it.
Hamishmash Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 The thing is Doctor Who really isn't sci-fi in the same way BSG is. BSG is a fantastic show, but Doctor Who being in the same genre doesn't make Doctor Who bad just because it's not as realistic. As has been said before, Doctor Who is fairy tale, not sci fi. It's about a man with a box which is bigger on the inside... it's Peter Pan in space. And it's obvious that if "Peter Pan in space" doesn't seem like your cup of tea, then you won't like it. It IS a kid's show, it's target audience is children. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discounted alongside gritty adult shows with swearing and sex. But then I work for Doctor Who so I would defend it.
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 The thing is Doctor Who really isn't sci-fi in the same way BSG is. BSG is a fantastic show, but Doctor Who being in the same genre doesn't make Doctor Who bad just because it's not as realistic. As has been said before, Doctor Who is fairy tale, not sci fi. It's about a man with a box which is bigger on the inside... it's Peter Pan in space. And it's obvious that if "Peter Pan in space" doesn't seem like your cup of tea, then you won't like it. It IS a kid's show, it's target audience is children. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discounted alongside gritty adult shows with swearing and sex. But then I work for Doctor Who so I would defend it. Hmmm. No. I like fairy tale. I have no problem with Once Upon A Time or Pushing Daisies or even Grimm. I don't think any of them is particularly good... but I think they're ok. I don't have any problem with the story elements in Who, I think the idea is awesome. I just think it's very poorly executed, almost like it's trying to be bad on purpose or something... It's a kid's show? oO I wasn't aware of that at all. You're on the Who team? Cool! What do you do? ^^
Serebii Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 I wouldn't say it's a kids show. I'd say it's a show accessible to kids. There's some pretty dark stuff in it at times, a lot of stuff that goes over kids heads too
Hamishmash Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Not many adult shows have a kid's spin-off magazine or Easter eggs Really it is a "family show", but I was using "kids" because Oxigen said "It just seems like a kid's show half the time". It's a "kid's show" in the same way the Harry Potter films are "kid's movies". It's very, very enjoyable to a lot of adults, but mainly because it is a simple, fun, adventure story which makes them feel like a kid again. It has dark, disturbing and scary elements, but never to any sort of extreme. BSG is excellent, but doesn't make you feel like a kid. It shouldn't! That'd be ridiculous! But that's why Doctor Who has it's niche. And I am a freelance writer but I've written for the spin-off stuff (written one audio-adventure so far, and probably gonna be writing for some of the books soon... there's lots of tie-in-novels which I've never read but might be writing soon).
Grazza Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 It's interesting that @Oxigen_Waste showed a clip from Gridlock, because that was one I didn't much enjoy either (sorry if you worked on that one, Hamish - I know it was written by Russell T Davies and I think he was absolutely fantastic for the show). You know when I said half of Season Three was brilliant? Well, that's exactly what I meant. Whilst Gridlock wasn't one of my favourites (although I liked the crabs ("Macra"?)), I LOVED Smith & Jones, The Shakespeare Code, Human Nature, Utopia and The Sound of Drums. Also, I don't know how anyone could think Blink is not a cool, neat episode. As for whether it is well-acted... well, it is fine. Whilst there is rarely a performance of the level of Alan Rickman or a Benedict Cumberbatch (for instance), Derek Jacobi was outstanding in Utopia and David Tennant was the most natural fit for the role of the Doctor that I could imagine. And what about Christopher Eccleston's speech at the cliffhanger of Bad Wolf? Chilling stuff. I also disagree that it's a kids' show, because Russell T Davies filled it to the brim with cultural references for adults. Maybe it is a little bit too earnest now, aiming for a "Harry Potter"/fantasy feel, with less satire, but I don't think it's a kids' show.
Hamishmash Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 It's interesting that @Oxigen_Waste showed a clip from Gridlock, because that was one I didn't much enjoy either (sorry if you worked on that one, Hamish - I know it was written by Russell T Davies and I think he was absolutely fantastic for the show). You know when I said half of Season Three was brilliant? Well, that's exactly what I meant. Whilst Gridlock wasn't one of my favourites (although I liked the crabs ("Macra"?)), I LOVED Smith & Jones, The Shakespeare Code, Human Nature, Utopia and The Sound of Drums. Also, I don't know how anyone could think Blink is not a cool, neat episode. As for whether it is well-acted... well, it is fine. Whilst there is rarely a performance of the level of Alan Rickman or a Benedict Cumberbatch (for instance), Derek Jacobi was outstanding in Utopia and David Tennant was the most natural fit for the role of the Doctor that I could imagine. And what about Christopher Eccleston's speech at the cliffhanger of Bad Wolf? Chilling stuff. I also disagree that it's a kids' show, because Russell T Davies filled it to the brim with cultural references for adults. Maybe it is a little bit too earnest now, aiming for a "Harry Potter"/fantasy feel, with less satire, but I don't think it's a kids' show. People think "kid's show" is a dirty word, but actually RTD was one of the people to call it one. Kid's shows have always had references and jokes for adults, all good kid's shows do. 50 years ago it was designed as a kid's show which would educate people about science and history. Really it is a "family show" as its aimed to be watched by the whole family, but it's "target audience" is most certainly kids. When writing a script they're always thinking about what they'll think, will they get it, will they get bored, etc. Grownups are just a bonus. (And also you don't need to apologise for any opinions about Doctor Who just because I am employed by them. :P I don't care, the amount of times I've bitched about Doctor Who is off the chart... but that's what Doctor Who fans do best!)
Grazza Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 I don't think "kids' show" is a derogatory term, I just genuinely don't think it is one, but I accept you know more than me about how it's created. With Gridlock, it's just that I had been blown away by every single Russell T Davies episode before that (especially Love & Monsters!) and probably expected too much.
Cube Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (especially Love & Monsters!) As in the single worst episode of any TV show in all existence, past, present and future?
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Not many adult shows have a kid's spin-off magazine or Easter eggs Really it is a "family show", but I was using "kids" because Oxigen said "It just seems like a kid's show half the time". It's a "kid's show" in the same way the Harry Potter films are "kid's movies". It's very, very enjoyable to a lot of adults, but mainly because it is a simple, fun, adventure story which makes them feel like a kid again. It has dark, disturbing and scary elements, but never to any sort of extreme. BSG is excellent, but doesn't make you feel like a kid. It shouldn't! That'd be ridiculous! But that's why Doctor Who has it's niche. And I am a freelance writer but I've written for the spin-off stuff (written one audio-adventure so far, and probably gonna be writing for some of the books soon... there's lots of tie-in-novels which I've never read but might be writing soon). I love kid's shows. Can't get enough of Adventure time, at the moment. Cool! I wish you all the luck in making the right contacts in the industry, I'd love to see someone familair rise to the top. :P People think "kid's show" is a dirty word, but actually RTD was one of the people to call it one. Kid's shows have always had references and jokes for adults, all good kid's shows do. 100% agree. : peace: Anywho, I don't think there's anything specific about it that turns me off, I just don't like... I guess it's one of those things... I'll just leave and stop poisining your thread, now. Thanks!
Grazza Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 As in the single worst episode of any TV show in all existence, past, present and future? See, I've never understood why people dislike this one. I should point out that I never liked Doctor Who in the '80s and '90s, so didn't actually watch it when it was brought back. However, I've always liked Peter Kay and so watched this one episode. Well, I was truly impressed with how inventive it was. The story was told from the viewpoint of Elton, as he strived to find out more about this strange character he had seen in his past. Along the way there is humour, snobbery, cultural reference and - eventually - sadness (without being sentimental). The Doctor is hardly in it! Rather than an episode of Doctor Who, it felt like I was watching an incredibly fresh and original piece of writing. (Of course, I went back and watched the others.)
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 @Hamishmash, just went back to the voting thread for this, I can't allow you to like Curb and Merlin. No! You're a bad person! You can't like both of those! You're making me love you and die a little inside at the same time.
Grazza Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Now Merlin is brilliant. There's never been a bad episode of that. To be fair, there's less variety than in Doctor Who, but the consistency works in its favour and the chemistry between Arthur and Merlin is sublime. Richard Wilson, Anthony Head, John Hurt... these are very good actors!
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