Final Fantasy XVI (22nd June 2023)

[Hero-of-Time]

9 minutes ago, drahkon said:

  29% completion (Hide contents)

WOW!

Incredible sequence of fights. One of the best "I accept what I've done" moments ever made

Awesome!

Yup, such a hype moment, especially when the music goes all out.

[drahkon]

My PS5 says I'm 1/3rd done with the game.

I do wonder when it "opens up". I was expecting more side-quests, maybe some hunts for optional bosses, minigames.
Do these things not exist in this one, or is it one of those "ok, the final battle awaits, but here are a million other things to do now" affairs?

The story also seems quite grounded. No overarching super-duper enemy hellbent on destroying the world

Not complaining, just wondering what FFXVI is

[Hero-of-Time]

I'm 75% of the way through and have not come across any mini games. There are side quests and monster hunts to do but that's about it.

[drahkon]

Good lord...

I just went to a small village, met a lady, talked to the lady, followed the lady, talked to her again, followed her again, talked to her again, followed her again...you get the gist.

For every incredible moment there is at least one hilariously boring/tedious/stupid moment.

[Hero-of-Time]

5 minutes ago, drahkon said:

 

For every incredible moment there is at least one hilariously boring/tedious/stupid moment.

Yup. It's such a mixed bag. FFXV was the same but the high points in that game never reached the highs in this.

I feel the development team just added padding to this game in order to lengthen the play time. They should have kept things streamlined because there is absolutely no value in the tedious missions they added. Even the ones that crop up as main missions don't really add anything to the overall narrative. Pointless.

[Happenstance]

If I remember right quite a few members of the dev team for 16 were from 14s so it kind of makes sense with parts of it feeling like MMO filler missions. 14 as well had some amazing highs.

[Glen-i]

18 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

  One of the most epic set pieces I have ever played (Reveal hidden contents)

So, Bahamut is wrecking the place and downs Phoenix. He's just about to go for the kill when Clive unleashes a shield of fire and fights back as Ifrit. You are then forced into a boss battle to take down Bahamut. He proves too strong but Joshua is up and about again and now you play as Phoenix. This section is full on Panzer Dragoon style, which was amazing to play. After a while Ifrit is back in action and so you double team Bahamut. Again, he proves too much and just as he is about to fire the killing shot, Phoenix and Ifrit merge. The battle now goes up into space and its just full on anime at the point and I'm grinning from ear to ear. Massive Spirit Bomb style attacks are being thrown around and I'm hammering the square button in order to make sure I win. Hilarious and OTT stuff and it's what I'm here for.

What a spectacle.

OK, so I've not played FF XVI yet, but some of the songs did get added to Theatrhythm recently.

The song that I assume plays during that bit actually gave me chills, and I was playing a rhythm game, can only imagine how it must feel in game.

Absolutely astonishing composition!

[Julius]

Been great following along with your thoughts the last few days @Hero-of-Time and @drahkon, definitely share a lot of the opinions you hold when it comes to this game!

The highs are insane; Soken and the OST are insane; the set pieces and some of the boss fights are genuinely insane (and push the PS5 harder than anything I can think of to date, in the sense that it's trying to do so much and push the system); the combat is fun and flashy, and just generally bonkers. Active Time Lore, I will scream from the rooftops for years to come, needs to be in any and every modern 50+ hour RPG, starting with the Yakuza games. 

On the other hand, the game lacks the levity and fun in the way FF games so uniquely position themselves as being, and the lack of mini-games I think really speaks to that. The combat as well just lacks any real depth, and it's shocking that weaknesses and strategy just aren't really a thing here, and that the elements of Eikons aren't leaned into? It lacks a whole lot of RPGness  and yeah, the open world ain't great (or the crafting)

Genuinely makes me wonder if this was done purposely with the VII Remake project also going on, though. Look no further than the change in chocobo designs between the two games and I think it speaks volumes about the approach and what is and isn't being allowed in XVI (and, generally, that's some lightheartedness) when you see what is being allowed and pushed for in VII Remake. 

18 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

  One of the most epic set pieces I have ever played (Reveal hidden contents)

So, Bahamut is wrecking the place and downs Phoenix. He's just about to go for the kill when Clive unleashes a shield of fire and fights back as Ifrit. You are then forced into a boss battle to take down Bahamut. He proves too strong but Joshua is up and about again and now you play as Phoenix. This section is full on Panzer Dragoon style, which was amazing to play. After a while Ifrit is back in action and so you double team Bahamut. Again, he proves too much and just as he is about to fire the killing shot, Phoenix and Ifrit merge. The battle now goes up into space and its just full on anime at the point and I'm grinning from ear to ear. Massive Spirit Bomb style attacks are being thrown around and I'm hammering the square button in order to make sure I win. Hilarious and OTT stuff and it's what I'm here for.

What a spectacle.

I loved Ragnarök to pieces but this setpiece and some others in XVI had me going "OHHHHHHH, so this is what people were talking about in terms of remembering scale/epic fights in the GoW games?"

Just blew everything else out of the water. That music is SSS tier, too. Soken is a god. 

12 hours ago, Happenstance said:

If I remember right quite a few members of the dev team for 16 were from 14s so it kind of makes sense with parts of it feeling like MMO filler missions. 

Yeah, the overwhelming majority of XVI folks worked on/will work on XIV at some point or another – it's CBU III that handled XVI. 

Totally agree on the MMO filler stuff, and you can see the MMO QoL stuff blend in elsewhere too with the little symbols thrown all over the damn place 

What I find most exciting is the scenario writer for XVI is one of the earlier writers from XIV (after ARR), so not the person who was delivering the goods story-wise which got XIV so many accolades. Would be very curious to see how CBU III's next mainline entry would do given the staff of some of the later XIV stuff? 

[drahkon]

47 minutes ago, Julius said:

The combat as well just lacks any real depth, and it's shocking that weaknesses and strategy just aren't really a thing here, and that the elements of Eikons aren't leaned into? It lacks a whole lot of RPGness 

Yes, I truly miss the RPGness, but I've accepted the fact that FFXVI is the Yakuza series in reverse
I like the combat. Especially the fact that perfect evasion windows are relatively generous. I hate games where it's (almost) frame-perfect. Maybe I'll get tired of it, but 1/3rd through the game, I still love every encounter!

I do, however, hope that Final Fantasy will go back to traditional TURN-BASED JRPG goodness for the next mainline game. But I fear this won't happen...

 

Anyways, I feel like I'm currently at a point that's building up to something huge. Smaller fights, a small bossfight, Cid has a plan...GIVE ME THE SPECTACLE

[Glen-i]

4 minutes ago, drahkon said:

I do, however, hope that Final Fantasy will go back to traditional TURN-BASED JRPG goodness for the next mainline game. But I fear this won't happen...

Yeah, that's not happening. The series has been weaning itself towards action game since FF 12.

Team Asano's output is the closest you're getting from Square, these days. There's a reason I refer to Bravely Default as "New Final Fantasy".

I wish it was just a Final Fantasy trend, but you're seeing it more and more. Even Pokémon is starting to try and make battles not the actual main focus.

Mad props to Yakuza for trying to counteract this trajectory! Takes proper balls to take an actual risk like that.

[drahkon]

4 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Yeah, that's not happening.

I know...makes me sad
I guess I still have FFI-VI to play, as soon as the pixel remasters are on sale. So that's nice.

4 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I wish it was just a Final Fantasy trend, but you're seeing it more and more.

Reeeaaaally hope the next Dragon Quest won't go that route...I think I'll go on a rampage if that happens.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by drahkon

[Hero-of-Time]

17 minutes ago, drahkon said:

I know...makes me sad
I guess I still have FFI-VI to play, as soon as the pixel remasters are on sale.

These things never go on sale. Had them.on my wishlist for ages and they've never dropped in price.

21 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Team Asano's output is the closest you're getting from Square, these days. There's a reason I refer to Bravely Default as "New Final Fantasy"

Battle system wise their games are great but their narratives are really lacking. There's only Triangle Strategy which really hooked me from a story standpoint. I would love to replay that and see what the other stories offer in that game, especially after they updated the game this year. Too many other new games to play though.

34 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Yes, I truly miss the RPGness, but I've accepted the fact that FFXVI is the Yakuza series in reverse
I like the combat. Especially the fact that perfect evasion windows are relatively generous. I hate games where it's (almost) frame-perfect. Maybe I'll get tired of it, but 1/3rd through the game, I still love every encounter!

When it comes to the battles, I dislike that enemies are damage sponges. I'm 8 levels higher than some of these things and they still take an age to bring down. 

[drahkon]

Man, these spectacular sequences are fucking fire

Spoiler

The fight against Typhon was some straight up DBZ action!

Ifrit/Clive keeping Spirit Bomb Hellfire going while getting rained down by energy bombs from Typhon...AWESOME!

And the music!

 

13 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

These things never go on sale. Had them.on my wishlist for ages and they've never dropped in price.

Patience, my friend
Waiting for a sale myself, though...
Still got my PS4 copy sealed. Will keep it that way. It can only increase in value

14 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

When it comes to the battles, I dislike that enemies are damage sponges. I'm 8 levels higher than some of these things and they still take an age to bring down. 

Oh no
So far, R2+▲ does the trick!

[drahkon]

Spoiler

Cid?
NOOOOOOOO

Also: I was right the first time...it was Joshua.
I hate bait and switches like this. "Look, he's wearing the same thing as that dude from 10 years ago, so it can't be the one who "died". 
"Oh, but it is the one who "died".

Terrible writing.

Love that now there's the one true enemy. And love that he's called Ultima

Oh, and a timeskip. Interesting!

 

[Hero-of-Time]

6 minutes ago, drahkon said:

  36% completion (Hide contents)

Cid?
NOOOOOOOO

Also: I was right the first time...it was Joshua.
I hate bait and switches like this. "Look, he's wearing the same thing as that dude from 10 years ago, so it can't be the one who "died". 
"Oh, but it is the one who "died".

Terrible writing.

Love that now there's the one true enemy. And love that he's called Ultima

Oh, and a timeskip. Interesting!

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I was gutted when that happened.

Told you it was Mickey Mouse.

 

[drahkon]

Just now, Hero-of-Time said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Yeah, I was gutted when that happened.

Told you it was Mickey Mouse.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I would've preferred if it was actually Mickey Mouse...

God, I hate it when they kill off a very important person to the main character early and then resurrect them later on...it's so boring. JUST STAY DEAD AND LET THE MAN BE EVEN ANGRIER!

 

[Hero-of-Time]

I'm trying to defeat one of the beasts from a monster hunter. Thing is 10 levels higher than me. Clearly I'm not supposed to be fighting it yet but I'm stubborn. Died 3 times so far so it may be a lost cause.

[drahkon]

49 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I'm 8 levels higher

2 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Thing is 10 levels higher than me

[Julius]

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

I like the combat. Especially the fact that perfect evasion windows are relatively generous. I hate games where it's (almost) frame-perfect. Maybe I'll get tired of it, but 1/3rd through the game, I still love every encounter!

Oh yeah, to be clear, I love the idea of the series leaning into character action, and think they pull off the fun and flashiness of it here super well. Just would be infinitely better and more interesting with your typical weaknesses/resistances/etc., I feel  maybe next time? 

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

I do, however, hope that Final Fantasy will go back to traditional TURN-BASED JRPG goodness for the next mainline game. But I fear this won't happen...

It's a poor excuse, but I genuinely think that they're utilising remasters and remakes of the old games to say they've filled that hole in a weird way (the PS1 ports, VIII Remastered, Pixel Remasters, etc.). That IX remake we've heard whispers about for years now, along with Tactics, will surely - right? RIGHT?! - be stepping in any moment now to give us some turn-based goodness, even if it is in the form of a return vs a wholly new experience. 

I think the 50th anniversary in 2037 or XX, whichever arrives first, will be our next best bet at a main series game having some turn-based component. Hell, then again, I wouldn't be shocked if they tried to utilise ATB/turn-based flourishes along with the character action combat once the VII Remake project is wrapped up. 

54 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

When it comes to the battles, I dislike that enemies are damage sponges. I'm 8 levels higher than some of these things and they still take an age to bring down. 

I think this feeds into the issue with lack of weaknesses/resistances – it would make total sense if these battles lasted longer if those mechanics were included as a way to clue you in to change things up, but instead? Just mash awesome-looking attacks some more 

39 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Man, these spectacular sequences are fucking fire

  35% progression (Reveal hidden contents)

The fight against Typhon was some straight up DBZ action!

Ifrit/Clive keeping Spirit Bomb Hellfire going while getting rained down by energy bombs from Typhon...AWESOME!

And the music!

 

I love that I can hear this track without even playing the video. The diversity of the music is simply absurd 

 

Random aside: @Hero-of-Time think you'd love to check out some of the interviews Ben Starr (Clive's mo-cap and VA) has given once you beat the game, if you haven't already! Dude's awesome. But also: his first and favourite game in the franchise is VIII, and he loves X, too 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Julius

[Hero-of-Time]

3 minutes ago, drahkon said:

 

Haha. Yeah, the hunt is a massive step up from the others. That's why I think it needs to be done later....

Never mind.

2 minutes ago, Julius said:

 

Random aside: @Hero-of-Time think you'd love to check out some of the interviews Ben Starr (Clive's mo-cap and VA) has given once you beat the game, if you haven't already! Dude's awesome. But also: his favourite game in the franchise is VIII, and he loves X, too 

 

A man of impeccable taste.

[drahkon]

Ah yes, the good old "more gil", "more AP", "more EXP" accessories have arrived.

Screw more damage

[Hero-of-Time]

16 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Ah yes, the good old "more gil", "more AP", "more EXP" accessories have arrived.

Screw more damage

Yup. Slapped on the EXP one straight away.

For some reason Byron reminds me of Douglas from the IT Crowd. Its a bit weird because he looks nothing like him. I think it's just the way he speaks.

 

 

[Hero-of-Time]

Just been hit with a crazy amount of side quests. I think there's around 10 that have just popped up. Sigh.

[Hero-of-Time]

Currently sat at 97% completion. I could go and end the game now but I think I'll go look for some AP farming areas and try mop up a few miscellaneous trophies before moving on.

[Hero-of-Time]

It is done. Just the the two trophies left.

One for maxing all the abilities and the other for finishing the game again on FF mode. Ridiculous when developers put multiple playthrough trophies in their 60+ hour games.

Spoiler

Epic stuff. Loved how each of the summons had a part to play, with Clive's friends words offering support. Had a good laugh at Gav shouting "Howay, Clive!" Love it.

Hammering the square button on each of the attacks, especially the kamehama style one, was glorious. Proper DBZ moment.

Also, I loved the FF main theme popping up during the credits.

Overall I have mixed feelings about the game.

The combat is very weak, with little to no strategy involved at all. Everything looks nice and flashy but for the most part you don't have much control of what's going on. As Julius said, the fact that elements weren't used for weaknesses was such a missed opportunity.

The open world sections were really barren and boring. There was no real need for them and they didn't bring anything to the table other than artificially lengthening the game.

The characters, soundtrack and narrative are the 3 pillars that prop this game up. All 3 are really great. The story does get a bit wacky towards the end but then most FF games suffer from this.

I feel the second half of the game is far weaker than the first. The first half felt more personal, focused and paced very well, whereas the second half drags on at times, especially with the fetch quests that pop up to hinder your progress.

It's very much a game of 2 halves. Had they kept things linear I think it could have been a lot better and probably would have fared much more favourably in people's eyes. As it is, there are too many issues with it for it to be one of my top FF games. I'm still back and forth on whether I enjoyed this more or XV. At the moment I'd probably go with XV.