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Final Fantasy XVI (22nd June 2023)

Julius

By Julius
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drahkon
drahkon

It may not be turn based... (@Kav this is all your fault) ...but it does look freaking cool

Jonnas
Jonnas

Haven't had a chance to comment on this yet, but I'd just like to say... This looks freaking fantastic. MMOs aside, this is the first main entry in the series since X that actually makes me think "Thi

Julius
Julius

Into my veins, please and thank you.   

drahkon Experienced

drahkon

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My PS5 says I'm 1/3rd done with the game.

I do wonder when it "opens up". I was expecting more side-quests, maybe some hunts for optional bosses, minigames.
Do these things not exist in this one, or is it one of those "ok, the final battle awaits, but here are a million other things to do now" affairs?

The story also seems quite grounded. No overarching super-duper enemy hellbent on destroying the world :p

Not complaining, just wondering what FFXVI is :D

drahkon Experienced

drahkon

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Good lord...

I just went to a small village, met a lady, talked to the lady, followed the lady, talked to her again, followed her again, talked to her again, followed her again...you get the gist.

For every incredible moment there is at least one hilariously boring/tedious/stupid moment. :nono:

Hero-of-Time Veteran

Hero-of-Time

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  On 12/22/2023 at 7:40 PM, drahkon said:

 

For every incredible moment there is at least one hilariously boring/tedious/stupid moment. :nono:

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Yup. It's such a mixed bag. FFXV was the same but the high points in that game never reached the highs in this.

I feel the development team just added padding to this game in order to lengthen the play time. They should have kept things streamlined because there is absolutely no value in the tedious missions they added. Even the ones that crop up as main missions don't really add anything to the overall narrative. Pointless.

Glen-i Mentor

Glen-i

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  On 12/22/2023 at 1:31 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

:bowdown::bouncy::bowdown:

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What a spectacle.

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OK, so I've not played FF XVI yet, but some of the songs did get added to Theatrhythm recently.

The song that I assume plays during that bit actually gave me chills, and I was playing a rhythm game, can only imagine how it must feel in game.

Absolutely astonishing composition!

Julius Grand Master

Julius

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Been great following along with your thoughts the last few days @Hero-of-Time and @drahkon, definitely share a lot of the opinions you hold when it comes to this game!

The highs are insane; Soken and the OST are insane; the set pieces and some of the boss fights are genuinely insane (and push the PS5 harder than anything I can think of to date, in the sense that it's trying to do so much and push the system); the combat is fun and flashy, and just generally bonkers. Active Time Lore, I will scream from the rooftops for years to come, needs to be in any and every modern 50+ hour RPG, starting with the Yakuza games. 

On the other hand, the game lacks the levity and fun in the way FF games so uniquely position themselves as being, and the lack of mini-games I think really speaks to that. The combat as well just lacks any real depth, and it's shocking that weaknesses and strategy just aren't really a thing here, and that the elements of Eikons aren't leaned into? It lacks a whole lot of RPGness ::shrug: and yeah, the open world ain't great (or the crafting)

Genuinely makes me wonder if this was done purposely with the VII Remake project also going on, though. Look no further than the change in chocobo designs between the two games and I think it speaks volumes about the approach and what is and isn't being allowed in XVI (and, generally, that's some lightheartedness) when you see what is being allowed and pushed for in VII Remake. 

  On 12/22/2023 at 1:31 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

:bowdown::bouncy::bowdown:

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What a spectacle.

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I loved Ragnarök to pieces but this setpiece and some others in XVI had me going "OHHHHHHH, so this is what people were talking about in terms of remembering scale/epic fights in the GoW games?"

Just blew everything else out of the water. That music is SSS tier, too. Soken is a god. 

  On 12/22/2023 at 8:00 PM, Happenstance said:

If I remember right quite a few members of the dev team for 16 were from 14s so it kind of makes sense with parts of it feeling like MMO filler missions. 

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Yeah, the overwhelming majority of XVI folks worked on/will work on XIV at some point or another – it's CBU III that handled XVI. 

Totally agree on the MMO filler stuff, and you can see the MMO QoL stuff blend in elsewhere too with the little symbols thrown all over the damn place :laughing:

What I find most exciting is the scenario writer for XVI is one of the earlier writers from XIV (after ARR), so not the person who was delivering the goods story-wise which got XIV so many accolades. Would be very curious to see how CBU III's next mainline entry would do given the staff of some of the later XIV stuff? 

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drahkon Experienced

drahkon

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  On 12/23/2023 at 8:25 AM, Julius said:

The combat as well just lacks any real depth, and it's shocking that weaknesses and strategy just aren't really a thing here, and that the elements of Eikons aren't leaned into? It lacks a whole lot of RPGness 

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Yes, I truly miss the RPGness, but I've accepted the fact that FFXVI is the Yakuza series in reverse :p
I like the combat. Especially the fact that perfect evasion windows are relatively generous. I hate games where it's (almost) frame-perfect. Maybe I'll get tired of it, but 1/3rd through the game, I still love every encounter!

I do, however, hope that Final Fantasy will go back to traditional TURN-BASED JRPG goodness for the next mainline game. But I fear this won't happen...

 

Anyways, I feel like I'm currently at a point that's building up to something huge. Smaller fights, a small bossfight, Cid has a plan...GIVE ME THE SPECTACLE :D

Glen-i Mentor

Glen-i

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  On 12/23/2023 at 9:18 AM, drahkon said:

I do, however, hope that Final Fantasy will go back to traditional TURN-BASED JRPG goodness for the next mainline game. But I fear this won't happen...

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Yeah, that's not happening. The series has been weaning itself towards action game since FF 12.

Team Asano's output is the closest you're getting from Square, these days. There's a reason I refer to Bravely Default as "New Final Fantasy".

I wish it was just a Final Fantasy trend, but you're seeing it more and more. Even Pokémon is starting to try and make battles not the actual main focus.

Mad props to Yakuza for trying to counteract this trajectory! Takes proper balls to take an actual risk like that.

drahkon Experienced

drahkon

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  On 12/23/2023 at 9:27 AM, Glen-i said:

Yeah, that's not happening.

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I know...makes me sad :(
I guess I still have FFI-VI to play, as soon as the pixel remasters are on sale. So that's nice.

  On 12/23/2023 at 9:27 AM, Glen-i said:

I wish it was just a Final Fantasy trend, but you're seeing it more and more.

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Reeeaaaally hope the next Dragon Quest won't go that route...I think I'll go on a rampage if that happens.

giphy.gif

 

Edited by drahkon
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Hero-of-Time Veteran

Hero-of-Time

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  On 12/23/2023 at 9:31 AM, drahkon said:

I know...makes me sad :(
I guess I still have FFI-VI to play, as soon as the pixel remasters are on sale.

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These things never go on sale. Had them.on my wishlist for ages and they've never dropped in price.

  On 12/23/2023 at 9:27 AM, Glen-i said:

Team Asano's output is the closest you're getting from Square, these days. There's a reason I refer to Bravely Default as "New Final Fantasy"

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Battle system wise their games are great but their narratives are really lacking. There's only Triangle Strategy which really hooked me from a story standpoint. I would love to replay that and see what the other stories offer in that game, especially after they updated the game this year. Too many other new games to play though. :(

  On 12/23/2023 at 9:18 AM, drahkon said:

Yes, I truly miss the RPGness, but I've accepted the fact that FFXVI is the Yakuza series in reverse :p
I like the combat. Especially the fact that perfect evasion windows are relatively generous. I hate games where it's (almost) frame-perfect. Maybe I'll get tired of it, but 1/3rd through the game, I still love every encounter!

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When it comes to the battles, I dislike that enemies are damage sponges. I'm 8 levels higher than some of these things and they still take an age to bring down. 

drahkon Experienced

drahkon

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Man, these spectacular sequences are fucking fire :D

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:bowdown:

  On 12/23/2023 at 9:55 AM, Hero-of-Time said:

These things never go on sale. Had them.on my wishlist for ages and they've never dropped in price.

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Patience, my friend :D
Waiting for a sale myself, though...
Still got my PS4 copy sealed. Will keep it that way. It can only increase in value :p

  On 12/23/2023 at 9:55 AM, Hero-of-Time said:

When it comes to the battles, I dislike that enemies are damage sponges. I'm 8 levels higher than some of these things and they still take an age to bring down. 

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Oh no :(
So far, R2+▲ does the trick!

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drahkon Experienced

drahkon

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Hero-of-Time

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  On 12/23/2023 at 10:31 AM, drahkon said:
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drahkon Experienced

drahkon

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  On 12/23/2023 at 10:38 AM, Hero-of-Time said:
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Hero-of-Time Veteran

Hero-of-Time

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I'm trying to defeat one of the beasts from a monster hunter. Thing is 10 levels higher than me. Clearly I'm not supposed to be fighting it yet but I'm stubborn. Died 3 times so far so it may be a lost cause. :D

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Julius Grand Master

Julius

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  On 12/23/2023 at 9:18 AM, drahkon said:

I like the combat. Especially the fact that perfect evasion windows are relatively generous. I hate games where it's (almost) frame-perfect. Maybe I'll get tired of it, but 1/3rd through the game, I still love every encounter!

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Oh yeah, to be clear, I love the idea of the series leaning into character action, and think they pull off the fun and flashiness of it here super well. Just would be infinitely better and more interesting with your typical weaknesses/resistances/etc., I feel :p maybe next time? 

  On 12/23/2023 at 9:18 AM, drahkon said:

I do, however, hope that Final Fantasy will go back to traditional TURN-BASED JRPG goodness for the next mainline game. But I fear this won't happen...

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It's a poor excuse, but I genuinely think that they're utilising remasters and remakes of the old games to say they've filled that hole in a weird way (the PS1 ports, VIII Remastered, Pixel Remasters, etc.). That IX remake we've heard whispers about for years now, along with Tactics, will surely - right? RIGHT?! - be stepping in any moment now to give us some turn-based goodness, even if it is in the form of a return vs a wholly new experience. 

I think the 50th anniversary in 2037 or XX, whichever arrives first, will be our next best bet at a main series game having some turn-based component. Hell, then again, I wouldn't be shocked if they tried to utilise ATB/turn-based flourishes along with the character action combat once the VII Remake project is wrapped up. 

  On 12/23/2023 at 9:55 AM, Hero-of-Time said:

When it comes to the battles, I dislike that enemies are damage sponges. I'm 8 levels higher than some of these things and they still take an age to bring down. 

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I think this feeds into the issue with lack of weaknesses/resistances – it would make total sense if these battles lasted longer if those mechanics were included as a way to clue you in to change things up, but instead? Just mash awesome-looking attacks some more :blank:

  On 12/23/2023 at 10:10 AM, drahkon said:

Man, these spectacular sequences are fucking fire :D

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:bowdown:

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I love that I can hear this track without even playing the video. The diversity of the music is simply absurd :D

 

Random aside: @Hero-of-Time think you'd love to check out some of the interviews Ben Starr (Clive's mo-cap and VA) has given once you beat the game, if you haven't already! Dude's awesome. But also: his first and favourite game in the franchise is VIII, and he loves X, too :p

:peace:

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Hero-of-Time Veteran

Hero-of-Time

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  On 12/23/2023 at 10:46 AM, drahkon said:

 

:p

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Haha. Yeah, the hunt is a massive step up from the others. That's why I think it needs to be done later....

GCBwb7nXQAANlgj?format=jpg&name=large

Never mind. :p

  On 12/23/2023 at 10:48 AM, Julius said:

 

Random aside: @Hero-of-Time think you'd love to check out some of the interviews Ben Starr (Clive's mo-cap and VA) has given once you beat the game, if you haven't already! Dude's awesome. But also: his favourite game in the franchise is VIII, and he loves X, too :p

 

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A man of impeccable taste.

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Hero-of-Time Veteran

Hero-of-Time

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  On 12/23/2023 at 12:53 PM, drahkon said:

Ah yes, the good old "more gil", "more AP", "more EXP" accessories have arrived.

Screw more damage :p

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Yup. Slapped on the EXP one straight away.

For some reason Byron reminds me of Douglas from the IT Crowd. Its a bit weird because he looks nothing like him. I think it's just the way he speaks.

 

 

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Hero-of-Time

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It is done. Just the the two trophies left.

GCI0aAgXIAA4_f5?format=jpg&name=large

One for maxing all the abilities and the other for finishing the game again on FF mode. Ridiculous when developers put multiple playthrough trophies in their 60+ hour games.

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Overall I have mixed feelings about the game.

The combat is very weak, with little to no strategy involved at all. Everything looks nice and flashy but for the most part you don't have much control of what's going on. As Julius said, the fact that elements weren't used for weaknesses was such a missed opportunity.

The open world sections were really barren and boring. There was no real need for them and they didn't bring anything to the table other than artificially lengthening the game.

The characters, soundtrack and narrative are the 3 pillars that prop this game up. All 3 are really great. The story does get a bit wacky towards the end but then most FF games suffer from this.

I feel the second half of the game is far weaker than the first. The first half felt more personal, focused and paced very well, whereas the second half drags on at times, especially with the fetch quests that pop up to hinder your progress.

It's very much a game of 2 halves. Had they kept things linear I think it could have been a lot better and probably would have fared much more favourably in people's eyes. As it is, there are too many issues with it for it to be one of my top FF games. I'm still back and forth on whether I enjoyed this more or XV. At the moment I'd probably go with XV.

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