Rummy Posted January 18, 2016 Posted January 18, 2016 Not sure who did the thrip but thank you! I was planning to but had some stuff come up so haven't really been on here since I posted.
Zechs Merquise Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 As for the pay for a figure that heals you in game...I don't think anyone at all is jealous that they are not getting that perk without the amiibo. The complaint with that one is that it cheapens the experience (yeah, even if you're not actively using it yourself). It is rather sell out for the Zelda franchise. This is the most pathetic thing I've ever read on this forum and just goes to show your mentality. Why would you,or anyone else for that matter, give two shits how someone else chooses to enjoy this (or any other) game? If someone wants to play it and enhance their health so fucking what? If someone wants to play Bayonetta with the auto combo mode on, so what? If someone chooses to play COD on easy mode with aim assist, so what? How does this affect you, or anyone else other than the player who chooses to play the game in that way? Should I be bothered because some people use save states to complete classic games? Should I care because someone used the Konami code to beat Probotector on the NES and I didn't? No, no one should be bothered how anyone else chooses to enjoy a single player game. Would you go into a steak house and start berating customers because they don't have their steak cooked the way you like it? Or go into a bar and start telling people not to use certain mixers with certain spirits? The fact it bothers you that someone may enjoy playing Twilight Princess in a way that you don't - and you feel that 'cheapens the experience' in some way for you says an awful lot about you as a person! When I'm sat playing a game, I don't sit worrying or agonising over the fact that somewhere, someone else is enjoying that game in a different way to me. I just play the game the way I want to play it.
Sheikah Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) This is the most pathetic thing I've ever read on this forum and just goes to show your mentality. Why would you,or anyone else for that matter, give two shits how someone else chooses to enjoy this (or any other) game? If someone wants to play it and enhance their health so fucking what? If someone wants to play Bayonetta with the auto combo mode on, so what? If someone chooses to play COD on easy mode with aim assist, so what? How does this affect you, or anyone else other than the player who chooses to play the game in that way? Should I be bothered because some people use save states to complete classic games? Should I care because someone used the Konami code to beat Probotector on the NES and I didn't? No, no one should be bothered how anyone else chooses to enjoy a single player game. Would you go into a steak house and start berating customers because they don't have their steak cooked the way you like it? Or go into a bar and start telling people not to use certain mixers with certain spirits? The fact it bothers you that someone may enjoy playing Twilight Princess in a way that you don't - and you feel that 'cheapens the experience' in some way for you says an awful lot about you as a person! When I'm sat playing a game, I don't sit worrying or agonising over the fact that somewhere, someone else is enjoying that game in a different way to me. I just play the game the way I want to play it. That's a very typical, carefully worded post from you. Essentially your posting style can be summarised as follows: 1. Pick out a point somebody makes, 2. Extrapolate it to impunity, 3. Pass off a seething grudge/hatred that you've been harbouring for a while in an obnoxious tone. Whenever you make one of these posts, do you honestly feel good about it? I mean, really? You insult people because they disagree with you about game design? The funny thing is that this shouldn't need any justification at all. Apparently, disliking dumbing down of franchises or shoe-ins of day 1 DLC means that you are automatically a snob, or hate people not good at games. A villain of sorts! I for one will gladly champion whenever devs opt to maintain a minimum level of competence required in games rather than seeking profits through lowest common denominator design. Not to mention a certain level of immersion - knowing that tapping an item in the real world can achieve the same result in game, or that such a thing exists, does indeed take something away I think. If you don't feel like that, cool. But there's nothing wrong with people that do! Edited January 20, 2016 by Sheikah
Sheikah Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 Again, it doesn't really take anything from the game, so FOR NOW it shouldn't be a big deal. Especially here, as I am sure the dungeon was built for the amiibo, otherwise it would be available in the Wii version. I don't even care about Splatoon levels, because single player campaing is there and I can enjoy it fully, plus it doesn't help in the multiplayer, so I am happy with that. The content locked to amiibo for Splatoon didn't really need an amiibo to use the content, just unlock it. So I don't think there's any reason to naturally assume that the amiibo itself will be a key part of the gameplay in that dungeon/area.
Zechs Merquise Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 That's a very typical, carefully worded post from you. Essentially your posting style can be summarised as follows: 1. Pick out a point somebody makes, 2. Extrapolate it to impunity, 3. Pass off a seething grudge/hatred that you've been harbouring for a while in an obnoxious tone. Whenever you make one of these posts, do you honestly feel good about it? I mean, really? You insult people because they disagree with you about game design? The funny thing is that this shouldn't need any justification at all. Apparently, disliking dumbing down of franchises or shoe-ins of day 1 DLC means that you are automatically a snob, or hate people not good at games. A villain of sorts! I for one will gladly champion whenever devs opt to maintain a minimum level of competence required in games rather than seeking profits through lowest common denominator design. Not to mention a certain level of immersion - knowing that tapping an item in the real world can achieve the same result in game, or that such a thing exists, does indeed take something away I think. If you don't feel like that, cool. But there's nothing wrong with people that do! More nonsense! If you want to start moaning about day one DLC, walk into GAME and take a look at 89.99 and 99.99 copies of games like Fallout 4 and Battlefront - games which literally have been broken down and carved up in order to ensure the consumer has to pay double the asking price to get the full experience! Nintendo are great with DLC. What's more, Amiibo aren't DLC, they're a physical entity which have their own value and give you a little bonus within a game as well. Games are entertainment. They're made for people to enjoy and have fun with. Minimum competence level - what the hell are you on about, playing a game isn't like joining the marines where you need to pass a physical test to prove yourself and dropping standards would mean letting people into the squad who weren't qualified and could compromise the safety of others. Games are something that people enjoy in their spare time. If someone wants to play the game on hard mode and literally push themselves to their limit and test their skill, so be it. Equally if someone wants to breeze through and just relax, enjoy the story and have fun - what's wrong with that? Honestly, if someone sits there playing Zelda surrounded by Amiibo and playing the game on easy - it doesn't affect you one bit. There is definitely something wrong with people who are angry or upset that some people play a game on easy mode or use a cheat code or tap an Amiibo on their gamepad. Honestly, if someone sits there playing Zelda surrounded by Amiibo and playing the game on easy - it doesn't affect you one bit. Normal people enjoy a game the way they want to and aren't bothered if someone else is playing the game on easy mode. As long as the option is there for you to play the game the way you want to play it, so you can enjoy it in the way you wish to what does it matter how anyone else enjoys the game?
Sheikah Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) More nonsense! If you want to start moaning about day one DLC, walk into GAME and take a look at 89.99 and 99.99 copies of games like Fallout 4 and Battlefront - games which literally have been broken down and carved up in order to ensure the consumer has to pay double the asking price to get the full experience! Nintendo are great with DLC. What's more, Amiibo aren't DLC, they're a physical entity which have their own value and give you a little bonus within a game as well. Games are entertainment. They're made for people to enjoy and have fun with. Minimum competence level - what the hell are you on about, playing a game isn't like joining the marines where you need to pass a physical test to prove yourself and dropping standards would mean letting people into the squad who weren't qualified and could compromise the safety of others. Games are something that people enjoy in their spare time. If someone wants to play the game on hard mode and literally push themselves to their limit and test their skill, so be it. Equally if someone wants to breeze through and just relax, enjoy the story and have fun - what's wrong with that? Honestly, if someone sits there playing Zelda surrounded by Amiibo and playing the game on easy - it doesn't affect you one bit. There is definitely something wrong with people who are angry or upset that some people play a game on easy mode or use a cheat code or tap an Amiibo on their gamepad. Honestly, if someone sits there playing Zelda surrounded by Amiibo and playing the game on easy - it doesn't affect you one bit. Normal people enjoy a game the way they want to and aren't bothered if someone else is playing the game on easy mode. As long as the option is there for you to play the game the way you want to play it, so you can enjoy it in the way you wish to what does it matter how anyone else enjoys the game? Again - less of the obnoxious tone please. Claiming that 'there is something wrong with people' because they have a different view to you on this is deplorable. You need to work on your attitude because from where I'm standing, it stinks. Expensive day 1 collectors editions are quite different to sealing away areas or levels. That said, I have not once said that things like bonus levels provided with games like COD when you order from certain retailers is a good thing, so I have literally no clue why you're offering that as a counter point. I'm also not sure how you can defend Nintendo when they have moved from having a franchise that didn't do these sorts of things to shoeing in amiibo into their main franchises and linking content to the £10-15 toys. Can anyone say this enhances the gameplay? Also, regarding one of your points, aniibo can most definitely be considered to be DLC, or at least unlockable content. It is completely undeniable that levels, modes and gameplay have been locked to the things - just because you get a toy out of it too, we cannot ignore that they are themselves purchased and provide content. Regarding the minimum competence level - not sure why you need to liken everything to a tenuously related real life situation. Mr-paul has covered pretty well what I think about the amiibo use here - it's nothing to do with wanting the game to be less accessible at all. The game is pretty damn accessible already - this inclusion is more like an app store microtransaction in my view and feels very out of place in a game where you normally heal by faeries and potions. Edited January 21, 2016 by Sheikah
Zechs Merquise Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Again - less of the obnoxious tone please. Claiming that 'there is something wrong with people' because they have a different view to you on this is deplorable. You need to work on your attitude because from where I'm standing, it stinks. Expensive day 1 collectors editions are quite different to sealing away areas or levels. That said, I have not once said that things like bonus levels provided with games like COD when you order from certain retailers is a good thing, so I have literally no clue why you're offering that as a counter point. I'm also not sure how you can defend Nintendo when they have moved from having a franchise that didn't do these sorts of things to shoeing in amiibo into their main franchises and linking content to the £10-15 toys. Can anyone say this enhances the gameplay? Regarding the minimum competence level - not sure why you need to liken everything to a tenuously related real life situation. Mr-paul has covered pretty well what I think about the amiibo use here - it's nothing to do with wanting the game to be less accessible at all. The game is pretty damn accessible already - this inclusion is more like an app store microtransaction in my view and feels very out of place in a game where you normally heal by faeries and potions. There is something wrong with people who get annoyed that others enjoy something differently to the way they enjoy it. If people want to buy copies of Twilight Princess and use the disk as a coffee mat - so be it, what is it any business of mine, how does it affect my enjoyment of the game? In the same way, Mass Effect 3 had a traditional mode, a shooting mode (for those not really bothered about the side quests) and a story mode for those who just wanted to experience the story and weren't too bothered for the shooting. I played the traditional mode, but I was never once annoyed or angered because some people got to experience the story without doing all the shooting or vice versa! The Amiibo use doesn't affect you, because you don't use it. No one is forcing anyone to replenish their hearts through Amiibo usage. It is an optional extra. If you don't want to use the Amiibo, don't use them. Just get on with the game and play it the way you want to play it. I don't collect Amiibo and personally wouldn't use them to give myself an advantage in any game, but I'm happy that some people do enjoy Amiibo and get enjoyment out of their game in different ways to me. Also, this isn't some competitive game where micro transactions are used to give a player an advantage against the competition and thus the richest player has a huge advantage against those who can't or won't pay for the extras. It's a single player experience, and one person's adventure has no effect what so ever on your experience.
Sheikah Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Again, that's not what I'm complaining about, is it? Are you deliberately misconstruing my point or are you actually not understanding it? If people who aren't good at games want to play on a different difficulty then that's fine with me. What I dislike is a series shoeing in a 'tap to heal' feature. Whether I choose to use it myself is besides the point - my beef is with the addition of the feature itself, which has all the hallmarks of a microtransaction and has no place in a game like Zelda. Within the game itself, it also just makes no sense to exist - why would tapping a purchased toy in real life heal Link? Tbh, that is more my issue than the perks it provides. It is not so much a difficulty slider given the general accessibility present in Zelda games already. If I understand your point, nobody should have an opinion on anything that does not directly affect them, even if it may have wider implications something down the line. That goes against everything we see in reality, and I'm pretty sure you know it. Edited January 21, 2016 by Sheikah
Serebii Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Again, that's not what I'm complaining about, is it? Are you deliberately misconstruing my point or are you actually not understanding it? If people who aren't good at games want to play on a different difficulty then that's fine with me. What I dislike is a series shoeing in a 'tap to heal' feature. Whether I choose to use it myself is besides the point - my beef is with the feature itself, which has all the hallmarks of a microtransaction that has no place in a game like Zelda. Within the game itself, it also just makes no sense to exist. It is not so much a difficulty slider given the general accessibility present in Zelda games already. If I understand your point, nobody should have an opinion on anything that does not directly affect them, even if it may have wider implications something down the line. That goes against everything we see in reality, and I'm pretty sure you know it. But it's optional so why does it bother you so much? That's what @Zechs Merquise is getting at.
Zechs Merquise Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Again, that's not what I'm complaining about, is it? Are you deliberately misconstruing my point or are you actually not understanding it? If people who aren't good at games want to play on a different difficulty then that's fine with me. What I dislike is a series shoeing in a 'tap to heal' feature. Whether I choose to use it myself is besides the point - my beef is with the feature itself, which has all the hallmarks of a microtransaction that has no place in a game like Zelda. Within the game itself, it also just makes no sense to exist. It is not so much a difficulty slider given the general accessibility present in Zelda games already. If I understand your point, nobody should have an opinion on anything that does not directly affect them, even if it may have wider implications something down the line. That goes against everything we see in reality, and I'm pretty sure you know it. No that isn't my point at all. My point is quite clear - if a game manufacturer has produced a game that caters for your needs and you can play it in the way you wish, but that manufacturer has also included other options that cater to the needs of others and others wish to enjoy that game in a different way to you - then so what? Your point is keeps changing with each new post as you squirm and try to justify yourself. What makes this even more hilarious is 'content' that is locked behind the Amiibo that you are so upset over has yet again turned out to be something and nothing - in one case a few extra hearts for those who are struggling!
Zechs Merquise Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 If the only way to heal hearts and get new arrows was through scanning amiibo, then I'd agree that it was horrific and be moaning too, but this is a 100% optional thing for those who may want things to be a tad easier. Simple. I'm personally looking forward to stacking Ganondorf and Hero Mode. Yowzah. That is exactly my point! It is an OPTIONAL extra in a single player only game. I find these things deplorable when they are in multiplayer games and one player gets a competitive advantage over others because of a greater monetary investment, rather than a greater degree of skill or greater degree of time invested. If you tapped an Amiibo and it gave you a much better gun in Splatoon or a faster kart in Mario Kart I would be appalled. But the sad fact is that these practices do occur, but it isn't Nintendo who are implementing them, nor are Nintendo games on the shelves for £89.99 and carved up into pieces in order to sell a full game at double the price.
Serebii Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 That is exactly my point! It is an OPTIONAL extra in a single player only game. I find these things deplorable when they are in multiplayer games and one player gets a competitive advantage over others because of a greater monetary investment, rather than a greater degree of skill or greater degree of time invested. If you tapped an Amiibo and it gave you a much better gun in Splatoon or a faster kart in Mario Kart I would be appalled. But the sad fact is that these practices do occur, but it isn't Nintendo who are implementing them, nor are Nintendo games on the shelves for £89.99 and carved up into pieces in order to sell a full game at double the price. Closest was the weapons with the Splatoon amiibo, but they weren't better at all. Just different.
Sheikah Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) No that isn't my point at all. My point is quite clear - if a game manufacturer has produced a game that caters for your needs and you can play it in the way you wish, but that manufacturer has also included other options that cater to the needs of others and others wish to enjoy that game in a different way to you - then so what? Your point is keeps changing with each new post as you squirm and try to justify yourself. It's not catering to people's needs, really. Nobody in any way needs the perks it is offering. It's catering to laziness and weak will; it's pretty much a microtransaction in toy form. You tell me that nobody has ever looked at an assassin's creed game and felt a little disappointment that microstransactions are available to unlock all the chests. Going by what you're saying, nobody should ever be bothered by microtransactions because they are optional. But I don't think that's true - we are fans of the games in general, and we have opinions about what we expect from games, and also, things we don't like to see. We see microtransactions as the dev selling out some integrity/immersion (because it makes no sense in terms of the game) to make a buck, even when we're not going to use them ourself. I would argue that Zelda is a very accessible game already. You can stuff oodles of faeries and potions into your pockets and gain a load of heart containers. I am not advocating that this game should be difficult as to exclude people from enjoying it. I think the right level of difficulty is there to make it playable by all. So really, I don't think hating on a tap-to-heal feature is me wanting the game to be difficult so people can't enjoy it. Rather, me not liking that they have included that feature. I think Nintendo are subtracting from the integrity of the franchise by doing this, personally. What makes this even more hilarious is 'content' that is locked behind the Amiibo that you are so upset over has yet again turned out to be something and nothing - in one case a few extra hearts for those who are struggling! Nope. There's also a whole extra area locked behind an amiibo. Make sure to read up on the situation before you start slagging people off over it. Edited January 21, 2016 by Sheikah
Zechs Merquise Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 It's not catering to people's needs, really. Nobody in any way needs the perks it is offering. It's catering to laziness and weak will; it's pretty much a microtransaction in toy form. You tell me that nobody has ever looked at an assassin's creed game and felt a little disappointment that microstransactions are available to unlock all the chests. Going by what you're saying, nobody should ever be bothered by microtransactions because they are optional. But I don't think that's true - we are fans of the games in general, and we have opinions about what we expect from games, and also, things we don't like to see. We see microtransactions as the dev selling out some integrity/immersion (because it makes no sense in terms of the game) to make a buck, even when we're not going to use them ourself. I would argue that Zelda is a very accessible game already. You can stuff oodles of faeries and potions into your pockets and gain a load of heart containers. I am not advocating that this game should be difficult as to exclude people from enjoying it. I think the right level of difficulty is there to make it playable by all. So really, I don't think hating on a tap-to-heal feature is me wanting the game to be difficult so people can't enjoy it. Rather, me not liking that they have included that feature. I think Nintendo are subtracting from the integrity of the franchise by doing this, personally. Nope. There's also a whole extra area locked behind an amiibo. Make sure to read up on the situation before you start slagging people off over it. Yet again, squirming and redefining your argument. Basically the thrust of what you are saying can be boiled down to: if you don't like something, no one should. And if you don't like it, it definitely shouldn't be in the game - even if it affects you in no way whatsoever! Yet you still haven't managed to tell us how it affects you if someone plays with Amiibo? They aren't competing against you, they don't get a competitive advantage over you. There aren't pop-ups or adverts in game telling you to use Amiibo. In fact, if you play the game without the Amiibo - you wouldn't even know you needed them and it wouldn't affect your play through in any way. Also, saying it's not catering to needs, people seem to be loving Amiibo and they sell really well. So clearly what Nintendo are doing with Amiibo pleases people. I don't like them, so I don't collect them. Finally as it has already been stated, a whole extra area isn't locked behind Amiibo. One extra challenge, a tweaked version of an existing challenge, is locked behind Amiibo. It isn't like an extra dungeon, it is just the Cave of Ordeals (which everyone can play) done with Wolf Link only. Big deal!
Kav Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) @Sheikah, why do you have a gripe with the Amiibo healing? @Zechs Merquise is right when he's saying it makes no sense for you to moan if you'll not be using it yourself. Also, "It's catering to laziness and weak will"... what the fuck?! This might be a good thing for some people who struggle with the game, just because you and I don't find it hard it doesn't mean others don't. Saying it's catering to laziness and weak will is a bit of a dickish thing to say. I get the rest of your post and to some extent agree but still, that's not right man. Edited January 21, 2016 by Kav
dazzybee Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 So bizarre, moaning about something 'someone else may do, you don't have to won't affect you' is another level of MUST. COMPLAIN. ABOUT EVEYRTHIGN!!!!! Also cheat codes aren't 4th wall breaking but amiibo are? Slightly strange... Calling out someone for being obnoxious in the most obnoxious way possible... The hypocrisy and downright pointlessness of so much of this is so so dull. I don't post and com where quite as often as I used to, come in read all this, and again I just can't be arsed... Remember when hobbies were fun and joyful and played and read and so discussed games because we loved them and we're excited by them?
Kav Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Brand wars @dazzybee, there's always been an argument... Nintendo vs Sega as it was back in the day, many a playground argument thanks to that. Haha
Glen-i Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Am I right in thinking that the Zelda and Link amiibos can only be used once a day? Because if so, @Sheikah is literally moaning about an extra Blue Potion and 30 or so arrows. Were you super angry when they added that extra optional bottle in Majora's Mask 3D?
Serebii Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Am I right in thinking that the Zelda and Link amiibos can only be used once a day? Because if so, @Sheikah is literally moaning about an extra Blue Potion and 30 or so arrows. Were you super angry when they added that extra optional bottle in Majora's Mask 3D? I believe you are correct, yes.
Rummy Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Am I right in thinking that the Zelda and Link amiibos can only be used once a day? Because if so, @Sheikah is literally moaning about an extra Blue Potion and 30 or so arrows. Were you super angry when they added that extra optional bottle in Majora's Mask 3D? Once a day yes. However, if you want to be literal I think he has quite literally stated and illustrated that was not what he was saying at all.
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