Do you think this is dangerous too?

[Beast]

Okay so before I start to tell this story, know that I mean absolutely no offence and that this is not some kind of hate tirade against anybody whatsoever but if you feel that this is offensive, I don't mind if the dudes in charge lock it.

 

So yesterday, I was driving down my road and everything was fine right up until I saw a car swerve from left to right manically (and this was no exaggeration) in quite a speed and take in mind I'm on a 30mph road. Obviously fearing that I was going to get hit, I found a drop in a kerb on the street and nobody was on the path behind or in front of me so I quickly drove up that and stopped and was trying to look at who was driving.

 

There was a learner and a passenger and the learner was messing around with her (I'm presuming it's a she) head where her eyes are. Luckily the teacher managed to grab the wheel and she were shouting to put the brakes on and pull over past where I parked. So she did erratically and got her out of the car. She wasn't very happy. I wound my window down to listen.

 

She asked what had happened and told her that she almost hit me, she put her thumb up to me to see if I was okay and I nodded and put my thumb up back. I couldn't understand the woman that well but I heard her say her 'face-veil' was falling down so she was trying to fix it because she couldn't see. The woman told her that she was going to drive her home and she wouldn't teach her again.

 

My question to you guys is do you think that objects that cover your vision as well as your face should be banned when driving?

[Agent Gibbs]

My question to you guys is do you think that objects that cover your vision as well as your face should be banned when driving?

 

They already are, the exceptions are coverings for religious beliefs

 

 

If you drover round wearing a balaclava then you'd get pulled over by the police, and asside religious interpretation there is no difference between the two

 

Personally they should be banned, any and all things that can be a distraction when driving, but then i think it should be a £1000 fine for using your phone when driving too to truely deter people.

When you are driving a ton weight around at speed its a weapon, and only trained professionals use weapons blind folded and only in controlled environments

 

 

but the veil is a whole different issue on its own, particularily when it comes to ID purposes, giving evidence in court etc

[Grazza]

Can't believe what I just read! This has to stop. We have to set our own rules in this country, based on our values and what we think is right - no exceptions for any religion. Now people will probably say face veils aren't actually stipulated by any religion (and I believe that's true), but it shouldn't matter if they are or aren't. We shouldn't fly in the face of common sense and our values, even if it does offend certain religions.

 

Basically, ban face veils in any situation where the general public wouldn't be able to wear one. In a similar way, they should actually prosecute anyone who has carried out or helped genital mutilation on anyone (male or female). It's apparently cultural rather than religious - well, I don't care which it is. It's wrong and we should crack down on it.

[Beast]

I know this might sound ridiculous but ever since that has happened, it's kind of opened my eyes a little bit to it when it comes to those face-veil things (is there a proper name?). Like, for instance, as Gibbs pointed out, if somebody robbed from my store and I had to tell security, how could I possibly describe them? It is quite a security issue. However, when it comes to driving, I think that anything covering the face should be removed whether it be for religious purposes or not. It's one thing when you're in public but it's another when you're driving a humungous metal thing at speed that requires attention and your senses.

 

Again, not that I have anything against religions, believe what you want to believe and do what you want to do so long as it harms or bothers nobody else or doesn't endanger anybody. As one of you have pointed out, when you drive, you're driving a death machine that needs your fullest attention. Can you imagine if a child or an elderly woman was anywhere on the road?

[Guy]

It is dangerous and the entire practice is poorly suited to modern developed society, but challenging it will unfortunately get you labelled all kinds of things.

 

I get some people do genuinely use it to hide disfigurement and there's no ideal to resolve the issues mentioned in this thread without robbing someone of their right to feel comfortable in society, but surely the cons outweigh the pros?

 

Sometimes I wonder what the reaction would be if everyone in the country started using face veils.

[Iun]

This has to stop. We have to set our own rules in this country, based on our values and what we think is right.

 

Problem is, how many generations does it take for "them" to become "us"? And as soon as they are "us", the values that "they" espouse are "our" values too.

 

I'm just poking you on semantics here: face coverings of any kind are incompatible with operating a vehicle if they are at risk of obscuring your vision.

[Jonnas]

I don't think you should be able to drive with a face veil. If it isn't required by religion, even moreso.

 

Regardless of religious/cultural differences, common sense is common sense. We can't let blind people drive either, and that's not discrimination.

 

It's one thing to want to ban face veils, it's another one to not allow their use where vision becomes a matter of life and death.

[Jamba]

Yep, sounds pretty dangerous.

 

I totally appreciate what Iun's saying and from my experience in these cultures have blended together to become the new concept of "us" I think that it's fairly well understood that the hijab is becoming the defacto standard and that it's a reasonable compromise considering how much of a cultural clash that the niqab causes.

 

Personally, I think hijabs are pretty cool. I've seen plenty of women doing something really fashionable and interesting with it and (keeping in mind that I used to be a science teacher with lots of health and safety considerations) I've never seen it causing the issue that's mentioned in the OP.

 

I do take issue with motorbiking and religious dress though. I know Oxygen Waste will probably jump on me for saying it but I really don't think that it should be legal for anyone to drive a motorbike without a crash helmet. I don't approve of the turban exception to the rule and genuinely feel that if we impose a law like this that it should be for everyone. What you wear is your business but you can choose to ride a bike or not. I don't think it should be regarded as discrimination in this scenario.

[Grazza]

Problem is, how many generations does it take for "them" to become "us"? And as soon as they are "us", the values that "they" espouse are "our" values too.

 

I agree, that's why we have to be alert to when our culture is changing. We have to be swift in deciding whether we are going to accept that change or not. It's like if you go into a restaurant now and order chicken. Chances are you're eating Halal meat, whether you like it or not. If society accepts that, OK, but we must be aware that this is happening. You cannot take in other cultures en masse without it causing changes for everyone.

 

In answer to your question, I believe the separation and Islamification of the (British) Asian community began in the '90s. By this I mean Muslims adopting cultural changes like face veils, rather than simply the Muslim background they always had. Before then there was less separation between them, so I'd definitely say "this" is something that's happening this generation and we're entitled to say it's no yet "our" culture.

 

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy Adil Ray's sitcom, Citizen Khan - it's shown me there is far less difference between cultures than I thought. But at the same time we must allow ourselves to see when something's gone too far and decide whether we accept it.

[Diageo]

The rule is nothing that covers your face while driving. There should be no exceptions.

[jayseven]

I agree, that's why we have to be alert to when our culture is changing. We have to be swift in deciding whether we are going to accept that change or not. It's like if you go into a restaurant now and order chicken. Chances are you're eating Halal meat, whether you like it or not. If society accepts that, OK, but we must be aware that this is happening. You cannot take in other cultures en masse without it causing changes for everyone.

 

In answer to your question, I believe the separation and Islamification of the (British) Asian community began in the '90s. By this I mean Muslims adopting cultural changes like face veils, rather than simply the Muslim background they always had. Before then there was less separation between them, so I'd definitely say "this" is something that's happening this generation and we're entitled to say it's no yet "our" culture.

 

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy Adil Ray's sitcom, Citizen Khan - it's shown me there is far less difference between cultures than I thought. But at the same time we must allow ourselves to see when something's gone too far and decide whether we accept it.

 

The problem is that, basically, no individual has ownership of "our" culture. Culture isn't defined by people, but people are defined by culture. Accept that you're used to things being a certain way, and realise that they things you're used to aren't right, just the way you are used to them being in your blink of a life so far. Get over the fact that other people are different and pay less attention to scandelous news that holds no actual relation to your life at all and just let it go!

 

There is really no need to instill legislation saying "one should be able to see the road whilst driving". Making it illegal won't stop idiots from doing stupid shit. The only reason to make something illegal is so that one day such people can be prosecuted for their stupidity. They already can be prosecuted for killing someone due to wearing stupid clothes. Nanny-state saying they can't wear religious clothing is another ignorance-led statement. Who here has worn one? How restrictive is the vision exactly? Right, bingo. You don't know. Extrapolating from bullshit. Right then!

 

I mean seriously. If it's so vision-reducing, how are they not slaying 21 people each time the hit the ring road? It's really not as mental as people are making out. As italian Bart Simpson would say; eat my socks. Or something.

 

I'm not even sure why I'm annoyed! There's just a whiff of generalisation and BAM here I am.

 

Fuck that post, it's shit.

[Jimbob]

Too true, any headgear (religious or not) which obscures visibility and identity, should be removed if operating a moving vehicle. No exceptions. How many times have we been told to take off a scarf covering your face in winter whilst in a shop for identification purposes, but yet a muslim isn't told to remove the veil in a shop. I really hate that with how the country works, giving more freedom as it were to muslims.

 

Sorry, i know this topic isn't about the above. But it really does annoy me.

[Diageo]

The problem is that, basically, no individual has ownership of "our" culture. Culture isn't defined by people, but people are defined by culture. Accept that you're used to things being a certain way, and realise that they things you're used to aren't right, just the way you are used to them being in your blink of a life so far. Get over the fact that other people are different and pay less attention to scandelous news that holds no actual relation to your life at all and just let it go!

 

There is really no need to instill legislation saying "one should be able to see the road whilst driving". Making it illegal won't stop idiots from doing stupid shit. The only reason to make something illegal is so that one day such people can be prosecuted for their stupidity. They already can be prosecuted for killing someone due to wearing stupid clothes. Nanny-state saying they can't wear religious clothing is another ignorance-led statement. Who here has worn one? How restrictive is the vision exactly? Right, bingo. You don't know. Extrapolating from bullshit. Right then!

 

I mean seriously. If it's so vision-reducing, how are they not slaying 21 people each time the hit the ring road? It's really not as mental as people are making out. As italian Bart Simpson would say; eat my socks. Or something.

 

I'm not even sure why I'm annoyed! There's just a whiff of generalisation and BAM here I am.

 

Fuck that post, it's shit.

Then why is wearing anything else that covers your face illegal?

[Jamba]

 

There is really no need to instill legislation saying "one should be able to see the road whilst driving". Making it illegal won't stop idiots from doing stupid shit. The only reason to make something illegal is so that one day such people can be prosecuted for their stupidity. They already can be prosecuted for killing someone due to wearing stupid clothes. Nanny-state saying they can't wear religious clothing is another ignorance-led statement. Who here has worn one? How restrictive is the vision exactly? Right, bingo. You don't know. Extrapolating from bullshit. Right then!

 

So it's ok to prosecute them once the person is already dead, rather than for them taking actions which drastically increase the chance of someone being killed? I'd prefer if the problem was solved before anyone got hurt.

 

I mean seriously. If it's so vision-reducing, how are they not slaying 21 people each time the hit the ring road? It's really not as mental as people are making out. As italian Bart Simpson would say; eat my socks. Or something.

 

More likely to be because few women from this culture drive as it's generally seen as a male thing to do. It's illegal in Saudi for a woman to drive.

 

Think you need to chill a bit though dude, seems like your trying to find a fight to have rather than posing a discussion.

[jayseven]

I've read the post back and I do agree with you jamba - it's more argumentative than constructive, and it really makes no actual points. I have no idea what I was trying to say. I woke up this morning thinking "... oh no did I drunk post on NE again?" and... yeah. I'mma go back to lurking and refrain from posting after 11pm, especially when I'm drunk!