Wii U General Discussion

[Rummy]

Haven't many of us on here been saying the same things Adelman's said for ages about Nintendo and courting/supporting 3rd parties? Don't see why it seems he's made a revelation. We know the problems from Adelman's previous comments, too. Here's just one of my many questions - A Hat in Time; why is it still not WiiU confirmed?

 

Nintendo arguably won't turn this around in a quick fashion, but by the same token, I wouldn't say they ran themselves into the ground in a quick fashion neither - this was a long process of ignorance getting them to this point.

 

The Wii U situation is dire, I can't find a way to truly defend it, I'm actually surprised people still manage/try to. If it were doing the job, it'd be selling well, no? Is it really all that more complex than that?

[Serebii]

Haven't many of us on here been saying the same things Adelman's said for ages about Nintendo and courting/supporting 3rd parties? Don't see why it seems he's made a revelation. We know the problems from Adelman's previous comments, too. Here's just one of my many questions - A Hat in Time; why is it still not WiiU confirmed?

 

Nintendo arguably won't turn this around in a quick fashion, but by the same token, I wouldn't say they ran themselves into the ground in a quick fashion neither - this was a long process of ignorance getting them to this point.

 

The Wii U situation is dire, I can't find a way to truly defend it, I'm actually surprised people still manage/try to. If it were doing the job, it'd be selling well, no? Is it really all that more complex than that?

A key problem with the Wii U is the marketing, or lack thereof. Most people don't even know it exists and/or is a new console. I know of people who didn't know it existed then got one because they enjoy Nintendo's games.

 

Nintendo really dropped the ball with marketing the thing. It wouldn't solve all the issues, but good christ it would have got them some sales. The marketing has been atrocious.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Serebii

[Sheikah]

The N64 is near enough 19 years old. That era is long gone and it is not coming back.

 

At some point it becomes virtually impossible to "salvage" a brand in the minds of certain audiences. It's actually much easier to start again with a completely fresh one, like what Disney did with Touchstone.

 

Saying that though, you have to ask yourself if it's really worth it. How much money do Sony and MS really make on their consoles? The answer is actually not a lot really; in fact, MS have lost far more money than they've made on the Xbox brand as a whole and Sony wiped out all of their profit made on PS1 and PS2 throughout the PS3 era. What makes it worth it to these companies is that it serves their wider interests as a whole (Blu-ray, Windows etc).

 

I can tell you that Sony and MS are selling far, far more games than Nintendo on their home consoles (and have been for a while). It doesn't take much to work out that if the trend continues (the trend that definitely started halfway throughout the Wii's life), then Sony and MS are definitely doing it right. The other two have also developed their online infrastructure to an extent that customers will pay extra for it! With home console, Nintendo continue to descend down the lucrative ladder as they alienate their past fans, while really failing to draw in the new ones. You're drawing on past history and sales to try and make some point relevant to modern day - doesn't work!

 

Nintendo however has nothing other than games (at least, until QoL arrives that is!), so it's simply not worth it to get back into this money pit battle over a shrinking pie that MS and Sony are at each other's throats for.

 

Besides, it's not what they want to do anyway. They just want to be able to make the games and products that they want to make, while making a healthy profit that offers them the security to carry on comfortably doing what they want to do. Chasing the dudebro dragon isn't in their DNA and it's a losing battle in the end, even if they somehow pulled off the greatest marketing and branding miracle ever devised by man. It just isn't worth it.

 

This post is really quite ignorant and naive.

 

First off, competing with Sony and MS doesn't mean you're chasing the dudebro dragon. If anything, you're chasing both the intelligent crowd and the casual gamer crowd (and with Minecraft, kids too).

 

Secondly, this seems to be another post that assumes gearing your hardware and OS in a certain direction means you are changing the 'crowd' you're targeting.

 

It isn't doing that at all. Nintendo absolutely should compete with the other consoles, as put simply: they are their competitors. To not offer great hardware and online is just a really neat way to shaft their fans. Let it be clear - Nintendo can continue to make the software they always do. They should just do it while giving customers the best they can in terms of visuals and online - because why shouldn't they? Sony have shown they can make a profit on the PS4 by selling a subscription with the console (it's likely even cheaper to make the console for them now). Nintendo themselves charged a similar amount with the Wii U when it launched, but it was comparatively rubbish. The point I'm making here is that Nintendo can compete, and when you look at their home console sales, they really should compete.

[Ramar]

If a company released a phone that was the same tech as phones even 3 years ago, whatever features it had it would fail.

 

That's not necessarily true. Weren't most of iPhone 6's features out years ago? Or did I dream up that welcome 2012 picture.

[dazzybee]

That's not necessarily true. Weren't most of iPhone 6's features out years ago? Or did I dream up that welcome 2012 picture.

 

Well two things, just because a phone has older ideas it doesn't mean they shouldn't be in new phones either. That just doesn't make sense. And also the execution of services/ideas plays a factor so the iPhone example doesn't make sense (plus it ignores all the new stuff it adds). The fact the dreamcast was online doesn't mean what xbox live did wasn't amazing!

[Ramar]

Well two things, just because a phone has older ideas it doesn't mean they shouldn't be in new phones either. That just doesn't make sense. And also the execution of services/ideas plays a factor so the iPhone example doesn't make sense (plus it ignores all the new stuff it adds). The fact the dreamcast was online doesn't mean what xbox live did wasn't amazing!

 

It's not really the same though is it. The iPhone 6 (and most iPhones in fact) have outdated technology in them. However, Apple use their software well and integrate the features better than previous manufacturers. Along with branding and marketing. The point you initially said was no one buys a phone with 3 year old tech in it, you're wrong. iPhones sell.

[Sheikah]

It's not really the same though is it. The iPhone 6 (and most iPhones in fact) have outdated technology in them. However, Apple use their software well and integrate the features better than previous manufacturers. Along with branding and marketing. The point you initially said was no one buys a phone with 3 year old tech in it, you're wrong. iPhones sell.

 

But also, iPhones are a fashion statement, Wii Us aren't.

[Ramar]

But also, iPhones are a fashion statement, Wii Us aren't.

 

And what made them fashion statements?

 

Nintendo are the type of company that think you'll like their product but won't tell you about it. You have to find out yourself.

 

Apple tell you that you want their product. They force it down your throat. Make sure you know about it's features. They've scouted the market, they know what previous companies have done. They take the best bits, add in some of their own, make sure the software and hardware work seemleesly.

 

It's two different national business cultures. One has kept up with the times (in terms of business strategy) and one hasn't.

[liger05]

Because this industry should be about the quality of games, not who has the biggest specs.

 

It will always be about the software but new experiences require higher specs. If specs don't matter why don't we all just buy Super Nintendo and play that forever.

 

Prior to the Wii the idea that new console hardware would offer little to no progress on the previous generation of consoles was absurd and it still is absurd.

 

I like my PS4 and the games it has but would I of bought one if it was barely more powerful than the PS4/360? Probably not as I got tired of that generation and wanted something new.

[Serebii]

It will always be about the software but new experiences require higher specs. If specs don't matter why don't we all just buy Super Nintendo and play that forever.

 

Prior to the Wii the idea that new console hardware would offer little to no progress on the previous generation of consoles was absurd and it still is absurd.

 

I like my PS4 and the games it has but would I of bought one if it was barely more powerful than the PS4/360? Probably not as I got tired of that generation and wanted something new.

Why do new experiences require better specs? At this level, it doesn't.

 

Yes, specs do factor into things somewhat, but at the moment not so much. The generational leap between this gen and last gen is only really graphical so far, and even then most companies are struggling with that.

[Sheikah]

And what made them fashion statements?

 

Nintendo are the type of company that think you'll like their product but won't tell you about it. You have to find out yourself.

 

Apple tell you that you want their product. They force it down your throat. Make sure you know about it's features. They've scouted the market, they know what previous companies have done. They take the best bits, add in some of their own, make sure the software and hardware work seemleesly.

 

It's two different national business cultures. One has kept up with the times (in terms of business strategy) and one hasn't.

 

What enables it to be a fashion statement is that you have it on your person all the time, because it's a phone. Through Apple's ridonculous marketing it has become an accessory like a watch; something a Wii U can't really ever be. It's why iPhone can become such a strong brand even though its specs are inferior to many android phones - it's something you're seen with, unlike the Wii U.

 

In the Wii U's case, people won't buy it as a fashion accessory if the specs are outdated, because that makes no sense. They'd only buy it for probably one of these 2 reasons:

- The exclusive games on the system are extremely desirable to the point the console becomes hugely successful (isn't happening)

- The console has an added gimmick that taps into something the mass public wants at the time (Wii's magic isn't happening here)

Edited January 22, 2015 by Sheikah

[Ramar]

What enables it to be a fashion statement is that you have it on your person all the time, because it's a phone. Through Apple's ridonculous marketing it has become an accessory like a watch; something a Wii U can't really ever be. It's why iPhone can become such a strong brand even though its specs are inferior to many android phones - it's something you're seen with, unlike the Wii U.

 

In the Wii U's case, people won't buy it as a fashion accessory if the specs are outdated, because that makes no sense. They'd only buy it for probably one of these 2 reasons:

- The exclusive games on the system are extremely desirable to the point the console becomes hugely successful (isn't happening)

- The console has an added gimmick that taps into something the mass public wants at the time (Wii's magic isn't happening here)

 

Very true.

 

Obviously they are two different types of product. But Nintendo could take some lessons from Apple in how to market products and create hype even if their tech. That was mainly the point I was trying to make.

[liger05]

Why do new experiences require better specs? At this level, it doesn't.

 

Yes, specs do factor into things somewhat, but at the moment not so much. The generational leap between this gen and last gen is only really graphical so far, and even then most companies are struggling with that.

 

The leap between generations has always been mainly about graphics. It was never an issue before so why now? What wow's people when they see a next gen console running? The first thing people notice is the graphics they haven't seen before.

 

Now with today's consoles you will get other things like suspend play, record and post online, snap features to do two different things at once etc etc but more times than not the first question people will ask is 'what are the graphics like?'

 

I would argue plenty of developers would say they can now do things which was possible to do on the last gen's consoles. Isnt that a good thing or should we just limit there visions to the restraints of outdated technology? Yes I understand developers will always want more power but surely them having significantly more juice to play with than they did 7 years ago is better than having none?

[Wii]

Would a TOSHIBA Stor.E Canvio Basics, HDTB310EK3AA, 1ТB portable hard drive be good to use with the Wii U? Or any other better recommendations?

[Grazza]

For me, it's very simple - if you want support, you have to be in the market.

 

When Microsoft and Sony are setting the hardware at a certain level, and every major developer is making games to that level, it's borderline insane to release a console much less powerful and with a very different architecture, and then still expect to get the ports. It's just not rational.

 

It's not about chasing the "dudebro" market either - just the market where everything is available. If, say, you have a Nintendo machine that has the vast majority of multi-format games, then you have a choice of, yes, the FPSes and football games, but also platformers, adventures, RPGs, sims... literally everything else!

 

I also think a lot of gamers are more mature than people give them credit for and are genuinely interested in Nintendo's best games (I emphasise best - they're not going to play just anything). I like the Wii U. It's a huge improvement on the Wii, in my opinion. Call me mad, but I genuinely think Nintendo is beginning to win back dedicated gamers - the GameCube audience, if you like. A couple of my workmates have bought the Wii U for titles like Wind Waker HD, Super Mario 3D World and the upcoming Zelda. I'm having conversations with them that I couldn't really have with anyone when the Wii was out because, rightly or wrongly, most people saw it as a Wii Sports machine.

 

I'm feeling much more positive about Nintendo than I have done for ten years. The Wii U is more enjoyable to me than the Wii, and some of their games show signs of being an improvement too. But they need to go further and make something that people can consider their main games machine, and not just an extra they buy when they have some spare money.

[Clownferret]

The leap between generations has always been mainly about graphics.

 

Not for Nintendo. A new Nintendo console is focused on the controller. The gamepad isn't a gimmick, they always do something new/different with controllers.

[dazzybee]

It's not really the same though is it. The iPhone 6 (and most iPhones in fact) have outdated technology in them. However, Apple use their software well and integrate the features better than previous manufacturers. Along with branding and marketing. The point you initially said was no one buys a phone with 3 year old tech in it, you're wrong. iPhones sell.

 

You're talking shit, but this isn't an iPhone conversation. When an iPhone comes out its technically the best phone on the market.

 

You can't pull up a few old pieces of tech within a device and say they're old, it's just ridiculous. It's just starting a childish "phone wars" debate.

 

So you don't think nintedo competing technologically would help?

[Ramar]

You're talking shit, but this isn't an iPhone conversation. When an iPhone comes out its technically the best phone on the market.

 

You can't pull up a few old pieces of tech within a device and say they're old, it's just ridiculous. It's just starting a childish "phone wars" debate.

 

So you don't think nintedo competing technologically would help?

 

Keep thinking that. No need to cry.

 

No I think Nintendo should be on par with Sony and Microsoft. However it's possible to sell inferior tech with good business strategy. Hence the Apple comparisons.

[Goron_3]

Why do new experiences require better specs? At this level, it doesn't.

 

Yes, specs do factor into things somewhat, but at the moment not so much. The generational leap between this gen and last gen is only really graphical so far, and even then most companies are struggling with that.

 

Because if you can't run modern game engines, you don't get the games.

 

In Wii U's case, if you can't run last gen engines as well, you get ports that are bottlenecked by the CPU. Poor thing.

[liger05]

Not for Nintendo. A new Nintendo console is focused on the controller. The gamepad isn't a gimmick, they always do something new/different with controllers.

 

So it's just my imagination that says the N64 was a leap on the snes while the Gamecube was a leap on the n64/ps1.

 

While they may have done something different with the controllers prior to the Wii Nintendo released consoles which were in the same ballpark specwise as it's competitors.

[dazzybee]

Keep thinking that. No need to cry.

 

No I think Nintendo should be on par with Sony and Microsoft. However it's possible to sell inferior tech with good business strategy. Hence the Apple comparisons.

 

Haha, fair enough. Yiure wrong about apple but that a other thread.

 

I agree you CAN, look at the Wii, but that was a mass market product. In the current environment it's become a tech game. And in thst people don't want old tech, Nintendo need to learn this.

[Dcubed]

Because if you can't run modern game engines, you don't get the games.

 

In Wii U's case, if you can't run last gen engines as well, you get ports that are bottlenecked by the CPU. Poor thing.

 

Ironically, the other consoles are also hampered by under performing CPUs too

 

Particularily, they're really bad when it comes to single threaded performance - even something like the Resident Evil HD remaster is giving those CPUs trouble (that's a game that probably hasn't been really re-written to use multiple threads and ironically, would actually probably run better on Wii U - given its GCN derived CPU architecture and much better single threaded performance)

 

The fact is that these engines could well be written for Wii U if these developers saw value in doing so. It's GPU feature set is certainly modern enough to support these engines like UE4 (even if the games ran in 720p instead of 1080p), but 3rd party developers just don't want to put the effort in because their audience simply isn't on Nintendo consoles.

 

Hell the supposed "lack of power" hasn't stopped developers from creating cross-gen games up the wazoo for the PS3 and 360 (consoles that are certainly weaker than Wii U in every way). It's not even a big generational leap anyway (by far the smallest one ever), with graphical differences being relatively minor and mostly limited to resolution and some minor enhanced effects.

 

Even if Nintendo's console was near identical with the PS4 in terms of raw specs, they'd still be getting hardly any support. Nintendo's 3rd party relation problems run far far deeper than specs...

[Goron_3]

Ironically, the other consoles are also hampered by under performing CPUs too

 

Particularily, they're really bad when it comes to single threaded performance - even something like the Resident Evil HD remaster is giving those CPUs trouble (that's a game that probably hasn't been really re-written to use multiple threads and ironically, would actually probably run better on Wii U - given its GCN derived CPU architecture and much better single threaded performance)

 

The fact is that these engines could well be written for Wii U if these developers saw value in doing so. It's GPU feature set is certainly modern enough to support these engines like UE4 (even if the games ran in 720p instead of 1080p), but 3rd party developers just don't want to put the effort in because their audience simply isn't on Nintendo consoles.

 

Hell the supposed "lack of power" hasn't stopped developers from creating cross-gen games up the wazoo for the PS3 and 360 (consoles that are certainly weaker than Wii U in every way). It's not even a big generational leap anyway (by far the smallest one ever), with graphical differences being relatively minor and mostly limited to resolution and some minor enhanced effects.

 

Even if Nintendo's console was near identical with the PS4 in terms of raw specs, they'd still be getting hardly any support. Nintendo's 3rd party relation problems run far far deeper than specs...

 

For the record, I never said Nintendo's 3rd party problem are related to specs. In fact I've written at length at all of their problems and I think we're in agreement that the majority of their I.P simply don't appeal to 18-35 males in the West. 3rd party games simply won't succeed on a Nintendo console because they don't have (and don't want) that market.

 

You say the XBO and PS4 are hampered by underperforming CPU's (agreed) but at least they are getting those games. It's also relatively easy to do cross-gen games from PS4->PS3 due to the architecture of those consoles.

360/PS3-> Wii U ports are just incredibly difficult unfortunately.

 

At the end of the day, I think with the way Iwata is leading Nintendo, they will simply provide Nintendo-software only system(s) that makes them a lot of money. With a combined OS across their handhelds and Wii U's, they are going to be able to produce a lot of software across both units and even if they only sell 60-80 million units of hardware (handheld and console combined) they will still rake in the cash.

 

I think people just have to accept that in terms of home consoles, their reputation is dead to majority of western gamers and they don't have the software to get them back onboard. 3rd parties will still be reluctant to waste money on Nintendo systems unless there's a culture change and I doubt it will happen.

[Sheikah]

Ironically, the other consoles are also hampered by under performing CPUs too

 

Particularily, they're really bad when it comes to single threaded performance - even something like the Resident Evil HD remaster is giving those CPUs trouble (that's a game that probably hasn't been really re-written to use multiple threads and ironically, would actually probably run better on Wii U - given its GCN derived CPU architecture and much better single threaded performance)

 

The fact is that these engines could well be written for Wii U if these developers saw value in doing so. It's GPU feature set is certainly modern enough to support these engines like UE4 (even if the games ran in 720p instead of 1080p), but 3rd party developers just don't want to put the effort in because their audience simply isn't on Nintendo consoles.

 

Hell the supposed "lack of power" hasn't stopped developers from creating cross-gen games up the wazoo for the PS3 and 360 (consoles that are certainly weaker than Wii U in every way). It's not even a big generational leap anyway (by far the smallest one ever), with graphical differences being relatively minor and mostly limited to resolution and some minor enhanced effects.

 

Even if Nintendo's console was near identical with the PS4 in terms of raw specs, they'd still be getting hardly any support. Nintendo's 3rd party relation problems run far far deeper than specs...

 

I don't think anyone has ever argued any different - of course PS4/X1 games could come to Wii U if they were rewritten for Wii U and graphically gimped (as you say, 720p, and no doubt a lot of future games would have reduced textures and number of models on screen). The point is that this massive undertaking is a complete technical block that prevents games easily going to Wii U, even if developers wanted to port their games across.

 

Saying that the games wouldn't get to go across anyway because developers don't have interest in Wii U is all well and good, but let's not pretend that there isn't a massive technical issue to it as well.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

Playing the digital version of DKCR now and it's so nice! (I did get SMG2 as well, but the improvements are much less pronounced in that game).

 

All the little loading hitches and pauses that the original game had, GONE! The game loads the map screen so fast that it doesn't even get halfway through the music loop before it's done loading! (and no waiting for the music to start and the HUD to load once the map screen appears! )

 

Definatley the best way to play! (and the speed runner's version of choice for sure )

 

I've wanted proper digital versions of Wii games for ages, but I was never satisfied with homebrew options (compatibility issues, glitches, nasty interfaces etc). This is just wonderful though! It works so seamlessly and flawlessly and the loading times are so much faster! (Not to mention that the Wii U Menu is a wonderful interface too!). No more rummaging through my shelves for Wii discs! (I probably won't re-buy everything from my Wii collection though, don't need stuff like Wii Fit/Wii Fit Plus or Metroid Prime 3 solus after all and I can do without some games like Madworld... but I'll get the majority of them at least!)

 

Can't wait for the likes of Metroid Prime Trilogy and Smash Bros Brawl (those loading time improvements!!) or Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition (finally! Semi-portable RE4 - it DOES have full Classic Controller support after all, so it'll be fully controllable via the Gamepad's buttons/sticks )

 

I just hope that they add GCN games soon and that they have full feature parity with the US/JPN versions here in Europe (60hz/480p support across the board)... I want to be able to finally retire my US region Wii and just run everything off my UK Wii U!

 

I just hope that Nintendo take this opportunity to restore Wii Connect 24 and WFC features with these re-releases... (Metroid Prime Trilogy uses Wii Connect 24, so that'll be an indicator of that, but we'll have to wait until something like Sin & Punishment 2 releases before we get a chance to see if they're doing anything about WFC games... I mean, it's simple enough to do and it's a strong selling point for these re-releases, just have the game connect to a different set of servers instead of the now defunct Gamespy/Glu Mobile ones...)

 

Edit: OH SNAP!! I totally forgot!!

 

 

This is also a chance for the cancelled Rogue Squadron Trilogy Wii collection to finally get released as well!!

 

PLEASE DISNEY!!! PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN!! The game is already done!! Just release it and make free money! It's the Star Wars Wii game I always wanted!!!

 

Please @Ashley! Anyone from N-Europe's staff! Please ask someone from Disney/Lucasarts if it can happen! Please!!

 

I'm powerless to do anything on my own, but you guys can at least get in touch with someone! Let's get the ball rolling!

Edited January 23, 2015 by Dcubed