The Wii U Won't Be Getting Unreal Engine 4

[liger05]

This week at the Game Developers Conference, Epic Games took their usual opportunity to show off the latest developments in their whiz-bang Unreal graphics technology. In addition to the shooty/demonic demos in futuristic/fantasy settings, one of the most touted features of the engine was that it can scale from next-gen consoles like the PlayStation 4 all the way to mobile devices and even web browsers. Which raises the question: If the Unreal Engine 4 is so scalable, can it run on Nintendo's still-new Wii U?

 

The Wii U uses hardware that's more or less as powerful as the current Xbox 360 or PS3. It's certainly still more powerful than your average mobile device. Epic has been unclear about the Wii U's support for UE4 in the past, with Epic co-founder Mark Rein telling Videogamer that Epic doesn't intend to bring the engine to Wii U, but that "if a customer decides they want to port an Unreal Engine 4 game to Wii U, they could."

 

I figured I'd ask straight-out, so during the Q&A with Rein, I did. "Will UE4 run on the Wii U?"

 

"Hahaha no." Rein said, with expert comedic timing. The room erupted with laughter. As the laughs died down, Rein continued: "I mean, sorry, it's not really a correct answer. We're not… we have Unreal Engine 3 for the Wii U. Right? And Unreal Engine 3 is powering all kinds of amazing games, still lots of games are being made with Unreal Engine 3. We announced today about a new Unreal Engine 3 license. Unreal Engine 3 doesn't disappear because of Unreal Engine 4. But our goal for Unreal Engine 4 console-wise is next-gen consoles. That's really what our energies are focused on. If you want to make a Wii U game, we have Unreal Engine 3, and it's powering some of the best games on the Wii U already.

 

"Nothing controversial, guys," he jokingly chided.

 

.

 

http://kotaku.com/the-wii-u-wont-be-getting-unreal-engine-4-462919060?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

[Dcubed]

I wonder how much of this is due to Nintendo's deal with Unity. Kinda convinient that apparently the engine could run on Wii U (http://www.videogamer.com/news/unreal_engine_4_games_could_be_ported_to_wii_u_epic.html) and now all of a sudden it can't...

 

So much for the engine being "supremely scalable"

[Captain Falcon]

I wonder how much of this is due to Nintendo's deal with Unity. Kinda convinient that apparently the engine could run on Wii U (http://www.videogamer.com/news/unreal_engine_4_games_could_be_ported_to_wii_u_epic.html) and now all of a sudden it can't...

 

So much for the engine being "supremely scalable"

 

Can't imagine it having much to do with Unity - Unity are doing a very similar deal with Sony and providing tools for the PS4, PSV, Playstation Mobile and Playstation Cloud. The engine optimises at the touch of a button too for any supported platform that your license supports. And I'd imagine they will be working on a similar deal with MS, since Unity already works with the 360, but it isn't announced yet because the 720 isn't official.

 

Personally I'm not remotely surprised and do think people who were expecting full support were sort of deluding themselves. They claimed it needed a minimum 1 teraflop of performance to be useable to any real degree and the Wii U supposedly comes in about half that. The option to try and down port is still their for devs if they want to go through the hassle but Epic aren't gong to do the grunt to get the engine running on the machines and I can't imagine it will be worth it when devs could stick with all they know about UE3 and arguably do it faster. That the Unity demo shown at GDC for Wii U was still talking DX10 level graphics when even Unity is fully set up for DX11 might also be another hint as to why Epic have no interest in doing the job themselves given UE4 was built with DX11 in mind and not an add on like with UE3 - understandable given UE3 predates DX11 by some years.

 

To be honest, the video that Sony showed off of the UE4 at their Playstation Meeting event earlier on in the year showed some inconsistances with prior UE4 demos in that textures were poor in certain areas, shadows were downgraded and there were some missing particles. And that has almost twice the minimum flops performance so they're still getting to grips with getting it fully up to speed on more capable hardware.

 

Of course, flops aren't the be all and end all of console performance and we're still only dealing with theorectical numbers but... well, yeah, didn't expect anything else and it's pretty much been Epic's stance since day one.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Captain Falcon

[Dcubed]

Can't imagine it having much to do with Unity - Unity are doing a very similar deal with Sony and providing tools for the PS4, PSV, Playstation Mobile and Playstation Cloud. The engine optimises at the touch of a button too for any supported platform that your license supports. And I'd imagine they will be working on a similar deal with MS, since Unity already works with the 360, but it isn't announced yet because the 720 isn't official.

 

It's not the same. Nintendo give out unlimited-use Unity Wii U licences for free to all Wii U developers. With every other console platform (including PS4), you need to pay for each console licence.

 

It's unprecedented and Unity is probably the strongest competitor to UE3/4 in terms of 3rd party engines.

 

Wii U also supports DX11 features like Tesselation and Compute so its GPU is obviously beyond the standard DX10 level spec. The concept of "Direct X" means nothing because Nintendo do not use Microsoft's API, they have their own custom one.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Dcubed

[liger05]

I think Nintendo has a heap of work to do to turn around all the negativity. The punches just keep on coming.

[Dcubed]

I think Nintendo has a heap of work to do to turn around all the negativity. The punches just keep on coming.

 

I don't think they can turn it around. The media actively fight against them and the majority of major western developers seem to hate them.

 

Perhaps focusing on indies over the likes of EA and Epic and communicating directly to consumers (bypassing the media through initiatives like Nintendo Direct) is their best bet right now...

[Captain Falcon]

It's not the same. Nintendo give out unlimited-use Unity Wii U licences for free to all Wii U developers. With every other console platform (including PS4), you need to pay for each console licence.

 

It's unprecedented and Unity is probably the strongest competitor to UE3/4 in terms of 3rd party engines.

 

Wii U also supports DX11 features like Tesselation and Compute so its GPU is obviously beyond the standard DX10 level spec...

 

Nintendo footing the licence bill is nice of them and it helps to give greater exposure for Unity but Epic already have so many companies in their pockets already that I don't think they will be that troubled by it. The full extent of the deal with Sony has yet to be disclosed and they say there is more to be announced so they could offer up something similar. Is Unity a bigger competitor than CryEngine? In the indie scene sure, go Unity, but higher up the food chain, I believe CE has more sway and that is still dwarfed by the giant that is UE - and that's discounting all the devs with their own inhouse engines. If this is the gen that indies truly rise up then Unity could become massive but it's still only potential right now whereas UE is reality.

 

The 360 supports hardware tesselation and could do GPGPU too but it's still DX9 underneath it all and incompatible with native DX10 code and beyond. I still think it could be an issue that could still be resolved but that Epic don't want the hassle.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Captain Falcon

[liger05]

I don't think they can turn it around. The media actively fight against them and the majority of major western developers seem to hate them.

 

Perhaps focusing on indies over the likes of EA and Epic and communicating directly to consumers (bypassing the media through initiatives like Nintendo Direct) is their best bet right now...

 

I dont know if they hate them I just think Nintendo made a console without western developers in mind. Nintendo produce hardware first and foremost for there own 1st party development teams and have every right to do so but come the next console they produce I think that strategy will change.

Edited March 29, 2013 by liger05

[madeinbeats]

@Dcubed. Sir.

 

@liger05. It's free listing weekend on eBay.

 

I knew you'd post this the moment I seen it myself.

 

Not only is this the most churlish story I've seen in some time, it's also by Kotaku. Its whole existence is to, yet again, stir up the Nintendo click bait hate circle jerk bum love.

 

Something was said for comedic purpose in a room full of people whose whole futures are reliant on expensive, powerful hardware sales.

 

Great.

 

They've already said UE4 is scalable to phones and if someone wants an UE4 game on Wii U, it happens.

 

There's nothing to take from this bullshit only journalists have no limit which they can sink for clicks, and how easy it is to play on peoples lack of commonsense and reason. But we already knew that.

[liger05]

@Dcubed. Sir.

 

@liger05. It's free listing weekend on eBay.

 

I knew you'd post this the moment I seen it myself.

 

Not only is this the most churlish story I've seen in some time, it's also by Kotaku. Its whole existence is to, yet again, stir up the Nintendo click bait hate circle jerk bum love.

 

Something was said for comedic purpose in a room full of people whose whole futures are reliant on expensive, powerful hardware sales.

 

Great.

 

They've already said UE4 is scalable to phones and if someone wants an UE4 game on Wii U, it happens.

 

There's nothing to take from this bullshit only journalists have no limit which they can sink for clicks, and how easy it is to play on peoples lack of commonsense and reason. But we already knew that.

 

Listen dude I have no agenda I only post news stories. Whether they are positive or negative it doesnt matter I'm just posting wii u news.

 

If the guy said UE4 was coming to wii u I would of gladly posted that as well but he didnt so please dont imply that I got nothing better to do than post negative wii u stories.

[madeinbeats]

Listen dude I have no agenda I only post news stories. Whether they are positive or negative it doesnt matter I'm just posting wii u news.

 

If the guy said UE4 was coming to wii u I would of gladly posted that as well but he didnt so please dont imply that I got nothing better to do than post negative wii u stories.

 

I don't know mate, it's all negative, negative, negative from you from what I've seen. Maybe I'm mistaken, I don't know.

 

I'd question this story though. 1. What actual factual material is left here once you strip away the tabloid bullshit and rhetoric? 2. How does it contradict what has already been said? 3. Where are the probing follow-up questions? Why aren't they asked?

 

At best, this journalist is remiss and of poor skill and value for his profession. At worst, he went in there seeking exactly what he got.

Edited March 30, 2013 by madeinbeats

[Guy]

All this news is being twisted way out of proportion. Nintendo have survived for many years without massive third party support and they'll continue to survive without it with Wii U.

 

This Unreal stuff is unfortunate, but it's hardly the end of the world. Don't worry guys, you'll still have plenty of fun with your Wii U even without the new Unreal Engine powering the games.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Guy
Automerged Doublepost

[madeinbeats]

It was actually left to IGN ... yes ... IGN to follow up on the answer. Says he was still laughing and then got a bit petulant at the end. Best interview eeva.

 

When someone asks if Unreal Engine 4 will work on Wii U, Epic co-founder Mark Rein bursts out laughing. "No," he says.

 

Following an Unreal Engine presentation at 2013's Game Developer Conference, Rein clarifies his response to IGN, still laughing,

"I just laugh at the question...Unreal Engine 4, we're not PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, or Wii U. It's next-gen technology. That's what we're aiming for."

 

So while UE4 proper won't make its way onto Wii U, Rein explains that developers are capable of porting software powered by the engine

. "The truth is, if a developer wanted to take an Unreal Engine game and put it on Wii U, they could,"

Rein continues.

"Unreal Engine 3 is kicking ass on Wii U. The best games on Wii U are made on our technology. What more do you want from us?"

 

In addition, says Eurogamer, Nintendo's hardware won't see the likes of Battlefield 4 and Dragon Age 3's Frostbite Engine 3.

 

When people like this are kicking the term 'next-gen' around to mean 'power', what hope is there???? Was this a conference or a spoilt 7 year old's birthday party?

 

So, whichever console is the less powerful out of the ps4 and 720 isn't 'next-gen' then?

 

Best thing about this is the Kotaku guy either went skipping out the room screaming like a little girl to publish his fascinating story as soon as possible, or, he heard the response to the IGN guy's question and ran out of ink in his pen or memory in his brain.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you games journalism.

Edited March 30, 2013 by madeinbeats

[Tissue Town]

I don't know mate, it's all negative, negative, negative from you from what I've seen. Maybe I'm mistaken, I don't know.

 

I'd question this story though. 1. What actual factual material is left here once you strip away the tabloid bullshit and rhetoric? 2. How does it contradict what has already been said? 3. Where are the probing follow-up questions? Why aren't they asked?

 

At best, this journalist is remiss and of poor skill and value for his profession. At worst, he went in their seeking exactly what he got.

 

Maybe it's all negative because Nintendo news in general has been negative lately.

 

I don't know what there is to question. The VP of epic says no unreal 4 for wiiu. Why? Well it's a waste of time and resources. They don't care what WiiU owners want. Because there aren't a lot if WiiU owners and historically Epic haven't released anything on a Nintendo console.

 

All this news is being twisted way out of proportion. Nintendo have survived for many years without massive third party support and they'll continue to survive without it with Wii U.

 

This Unreal stuff is unfortunate, but it's hardly the end of the world. Don't worry guys, you'll still have plenty of fun with your Wii U even without the new Unreal Engine powering the games.

 

For sure. Except they lost a lot of their core fan base last gen, whom they relied upon during the GC days. Don't bet the horse on casuals. They aren't predictable in the slightest.

[Cube]

When people like this are kicking the term 'next-gen' around to mean 'power', what hope is there???? Was this a conference or a spoilt 7 year old's birthday party?

 

So, whichever console is the less powerful out of the ps4 and 720 isn't 'next-gen' then?

 

Best thing about this is the Kotaku guy either went skipping out the room screaming like a little girl to publish his fascinating story as soon as possible, or, he heard the response to the IGN guy's question and ran out of ink in his pen or memory in his brain.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you games journalism.

 

Not to mention that his whole "next gen" argument about it completely falls apart when you consider Unreal 4 will be ported to Android and iOS.

[madeinbeats]

Maybe it's all negative because Nintendo news in general has been negative lately.

 

Three high scoring games have just been released and details about Nintendo reaching out to app developers with their new Bamboo framework. Wii U hardware sales have taken an upturn, and so France says, tripled over there.

 

Fact is, any negative Nintendo news get blown out of proportion and nullifies any positive news - that's just the law. And it's that engrained now people don't even realise they're infected with this mind virus, they just gi along with it.

 

Not to mention that his whole "next gen" argument about it completely falls apart when you consider Unreal 4 will be ported to Android and iOS.

 

I know, it just beggars belief. What a waste of server bandwidth this pile of shite has been! You could only imagine the look of shock on my face when Eurogamer publish this tomorrow - or maybe they'll wait till Tuesday morning when they stop shaking their fist at the sky for being a bank-holiday weekend.

 

EDIT. Just thought I'd add that I'm really shocked by the amount people saying they aren't too impressed by these tech demos... really weird. By my judgement they outweigh the impressed people by a noteworthy margin.

Edited March 30, 2013 by madeinbeats
Automerged Doublepost

[Tissue Town]

Three high scoring games have just been released and details about Nintendo reaching out to app developers with their new Bamboo framework. Wii U hardware sales have taken an upturn, and so France says, tripled over there.

 

Fact is, any negative Nintendo news get blown out of proportion and nullifies any positive news - that's just the law. And it's that engrained now people don't even realise they're infected with this mind virus, they just gi along with it.

 

 

 

I know, it just beggars belief. What a waste of server bandwidth this pile of shite has been! You could only imagine the look of shock on my face when Eurogamer publish this tomorrow - or maybe they'll wait till Tuesday morning when they stop shaking their fist at the sky for being a bank-holiday weekend.

 

Its great to note that the WiiU has tripled in sales in France. I believe it overtook the Wii that week as well, honestly, something definitely worth applauding.

And don't forget that in the UK the WiiU sales have grown 125% since last week. Maybe HMVs £140 price cut may have had something to do with that. Who knows!

 

Nintendo being kind to indie devs, on their thriving eshop. News to set the world alight I'm sure.

 

And what three high scoring games are these? The only ones I see advertised these days are bioshock and tomb raider.

 

Finally the next gen games engine refers to the fact that it's showing off features that can only be possible on next gen hardware and thus is the reason you'd use it. If you took the cry engine 3 and turned off the dynamic lighting, all the various maps, tesselation, rewrite the framework, you could get it to run on the DS.

No one is going to pay the license for unreal 4 to make WiiU games whe Unreal 3 will suffice. Its not good business.

 

Look, I know you love Nintendo, but just remember, they're a business, and they haven't been making good decisions lately.

[Cube]

And what three high scoring games are these? The only ones I see advertised these days are bioshock and tomb raider.

 

Luigi's Mansion, LEGO City: Undercover and Monster Hunter 3 Tri Super Unlimited HD Remix Edition.

[dazzybee]

Swap need for speed with luigis.

[Guy]

Hard truths, Wii Uths.

 

Discarding the tone, he makes some good points.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Guy

[Serebii]

Not surprised at all. While the Wii U is more powerful than "current" gen, it's a far cry in power from the PS4.

 

I will say it again, Microsoft and Sony have fucked the gaming industry up with the current gen. By moving to lossleading hardware, they've made it near impossible for gaming only companies (i.e. Nintendo) to duplicate it. MS and Sony both have lost so much money with their consoles and have yet to recoup those losses, though I believe Microsoft is close now thanks to Live. If Nintendo were to follow suit and go with massively powerful hardware as per the PS4, then they'd go bankrupt within a year.

Even developers are feeling it, with dozens having folded in the last few years and even more to come. Even Ubisoft has said that the continuing increases in development are unsustainable. Look at Tomb Raider; it has sold 3.4 million units in the first month and is considered a failure. For that reason, I can see smaller developers shifting to Wii U over the next three years.

 

People like Mark Rein care only about specs and create stuff for top spec machines, as such of course his new engine won't support a comparatively low-end console.

 

However, the way he announced it was just unprofessional. Sure say it's not what you're aiming at, but laugh and then encourage the entire hall to laugh? That's just ridiculous. The contempt western developers seem to have for Nintendo is astonishing

Edited March 30, 2013 by Serebii

[madeinbeats]

Hard truths, Wii Uths.

 

Discarding the tone, he makes some good points.

 

What, that positives are in fact negatives?

 

 

It is fucking ridiculous the amount of times on this site you feel obliged to explain yourself as not being a fanboy. Questioning truth and reason out of people or what journalists write if it's against Nintendo, the same grubs come crawling out the 'other consoles' section and weild their Almighty multi console owners judgment mallet and proceed to cherry pick the fuck out of a single post and spin until their narrow minds find a way turn 'just a silly little fanboy' into a few paragraphs. Fuck. That.

 

If these people spent more time in the Nintendo section on a **Nintendo** site, then they might be more familiar with mine and other's, posts.

 

Positives are positives and with the Wii U at the minute they need to start somewhere. Right? We can talk numbers and momentum when when those figures are available.

 

Re: UE4, so long as UE3 supports the Wii U and its feature set to its best then that's fine. UE isn't just about graphics though, it's also a set of development tools which supposedly offer time saving benefits over the UE3 environment, so how good are these tools over UE3 and how much dev time can be saved and is that worth the extra cost of the licence to a 3rd parties.

Edited March 30, 2013 by madeinbeats

[Guy]

Wow, that sure escalated. Thanks for that.

 

Most people on this website came here due to a love for Nintendo and eventually broadened their gaming horizons. I'm certainly one of those people and while I question a lot of the stuff Nintendo do these days, I still genuinely feel they are capable of producing sublime experiences no other company can match. I was a huge fanboy back in secondary school and that intense desire to defend Nintendo never truly leaves you, but there's no arguing some of their maneuvers in recent years have been fairly baffling.

 

While it does suck that a number of the Nintendo board regulars have to constantly defend themselves against fanboy accusations, it's not entirely unfounded. A lot of Nintendo critique on here is met with similar levels of inflammatory backlash. Look at your first response in this thread for example. Read that again and tell me it doesn't come across as you shifting into pure Nintendo fanboy defense mode. It's like you've been stalking the OP for months and have convinced yourself he's out to get Iwata and friends in any way he can.

 

The Kotaku hate is perfectly warranted though, fuck that website. Also, nobody is claiming the handling of Rein's response to the question was called for. It was a dickish move and I think the next quote clearly shows him going into damage control mode.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Guy

[Hogge]

I don't think they can turn it around. The media actively fight against them and the majority of major western developers seem to hate them.

 

Perhaps focusing on indies over the likes of EA and Epic and communicating directly to consumers (bypassing the media through initiatives like Nintendo Direct) is their best bet right now...

 

Agreed.

Does anyone know when that Wii U third party episode is coming? It's long overdue!

[madeinbeats]

Wow, that sure escalated. Thanks for that.

 

Don't worry, Debug_mode's skin is as thick as his head

 

Most people on this website came here due to a love for Nintendo and eventually broadened their gaming horizons. I'm certainly one of those people and while I question a lot of the stuff Nintendo do these days, I still genuinely feel they are capable of producing sublime experiences no other company can match. I was a huge fanboy back in secondary school and that intense desire to defend Nintendo never truly leaves you, but there's no arguing some of their maneuvers in recent years have been fairly baffling.

 

Well, have you asked me if I agree, disagree or just assume what my opinion here is?

 

While it does suck that a number of the Nintendo board regulars have to constantly defend themselves against fanboy accusations, it's not entirely unfounded.

 

Aren't all *accusations* entirely unfounded?

 

A lot of Nintendo critique on here is met with similar levels of inflammatory backlash. Look at your first response in this thread for example. Read that again and tell me it doesn't come across as you shifting into pure Nintendo fanboy defense mode.

 

That's a question, so I can answer that. No, liger and myself hang around on the same street corners.

 

It's like you've been stalking the OP for months and have convinced yourself he's out to get Iwata and friends in any way he can.

 

That's another accusation; and stalking! ouch - so sinister. We both have post histories anyone can stalk via our user pages.

 

The Kotaku hate is perfectly warranted though, fuck that website. Also, nobody is claiming the handling of Rein's response to the question was called for. It was a dickish move and I think the next quote clearly shows him going into damage control mode.

 

I'm glad we could eventually bring focus back to the actual subject matter ;-D Engage followed it up the day after for more backtracking but still didn't press for new information or understanding of the situation. The quality of journalism in games has to be at an all time low.

Edited March 30, 2013 by madeinbeats