Rummy Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Rummy lynch. There's no way a townie drives a wrong lynch this hard. It's a shame Magnus because, unless you're playing a really artful game as a Mafioso (which I would seriously credit at the end), I had you down as someone pretty good at sussing me, like the last game. I will say though, Rummy has been really quite insulting throughout a lot of the game (and at the end of the last game), and not once has apologised. I did also comment that Yvonne could have been stopped while Rummy wasn't before you picked up on this, a few posts back. While it's a possibility, I would still term this a potential contradiction until it was further investigated. To respond to this; yes there is. A townie, as I am, has no idea who anyone else is. I can go only by my own conviction and my own information, which, in this case is 100% as you and magnus've confirmed yourselves. Appeal to Magnus's personal side of sensiblity is irrelevant and not a town move; that's mafia manipulation. Last game issues(it appears to be issues) are irrelevant, discuss that where suitable - this is a game in progress and it is not for here. Contradiction maybe in your opinion; but Yvonne revealed his info almost first thing - whereas I revealed mine almost last - and as me, you, and everyone else knows from our admissions, is accurate. It's a huge risk for Yvonne to take so early on, so there most likely IS a legit explanation. If we want to take Jimbob's recent game for example, as you yourself so, everyone was operating on what they believed to be accurate information - the mistake was with no player. I don't think that's the case here, but I'm also almost cetain Yvonne isn't lying on this count given the early reveal and subsequent turn of events. There's probably more to the curent case at hand than meets the eye.
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Not all townies, but I'm sure you consider yourself the more optimum of most. If that's the case, I'd expect you to play...well, as a town. You didn't really, and that's what's netted you the votes so far. I don't make mafia game decisions on my own, I play with the team and leave it up to them. I've presented my case and left it up to everyone else, with no lies; don't blame me for that. I didn't push the hand of anyone else to vote for you; you did. I repeat that I gave you ample opportunity to came forward on your own terms; you refused. It was your choice, and it's your potential grave too. As you've seen before, one cannot secure a lynch all by himself. See, there is no such thing as 'playing as town'. Mafia are all doing that, it's all the rage these days. It is your job, in the absence of concrete evidence, to gauge as a player the personalities and traits of various other players and decide accordingly. For instance, how likely are you able to extract information out of Sheikah on D2 by threatening him with nothing? Turns out, not very likely. Maybe you can claim not to have known that, but now you will know. At least now there will be a precedent - I'm not going to answer people who vote for me with no evidence. It doesn't mean I'm hiding anything, it means that I'm not going to reveal my role that early and get myself killed by the Mafia. Plus it helps when I am Mafia! Either way it's a decent position to adopt. If people are going to out me instead then there's nothing I can do about it, except perhaps return the favour in future games and cause a sort of stalemate truce.
Rummy Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Playing as town and playing as mafia playing as town are two very different things. If you for a second think they're the same then you're in either the very wrong, or as I rather suspect, the very right place. In that it's such naiive argument to make I'm shocked you're even trying. It's like you're not even trying to play as town!
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 @Sheikah. If this is a wrongful lynch then I apologise. I'm suspicious of everyone, but this confusing mess has lead me to what it has. Your possible, impending death. ...Sorry. It is a wrongful lynch. You have the power to rise up and change things.
Rummy Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Appeal to Magnus's personal side of sensiblity is irrelevant and not a town move; that's mafia manipulation. Hmmm. I'd love to say my point is made, and indeed it is, but I'll keep following it up! I don't know if there'll be enough to lynch Sheikah if there are various factions and some taking his potential side, but time will tell I guess.
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Playing as town and playing as mafia playing as town are two very different things. If you for a second think they're the same then you're in either the very wrong, or as I rather suspect, the very right place. In that it's such naiive argument to make I'm shocked you're even trying. It's like you're not even trying to play as town! Right, I'm confused, are you arguing that your pre-conception of 'town' behaviour is not something that Mafia adhere to? As in, what town normally do, Mafia will do.
Rummy Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 You're still trying to deflect attention away from the original point, so I won't engage you. I'd imagine all the mafia buddies are sleeping and you're rolling solo.
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Hmmm. I'd love to say my point is made, and indeed it is, but I'll keep following it up! I don't know if there'll be enough to lynch Sheikah if there are various factions and some taking his potential side, but time will tell I guess. If it's not a 'town move' then why would the Mafia do it? It's not like the Mafia aren't constantly trying to appear as townies or something. Anyway that's really not true, given I have appealed to people countless times before when I've been town. In fact my last few games when I've been Mafia I've rarely appealed at all. Well I'm heading off now... I make that 5/8 votes. You'll know if the lynch happens that Rummy has screwed town with his one-dimensional rationalising and obviously I'd rather you didn't vote me. I will be really quite surprised if Rummy is town given how hard he has pushed (far harder than I have ever seen him do when playing as town), so I'd recommend sending everything you have at him when you see I'm town. Disregard his excuses about how it isn't an ounce his fault that we inevitably know will come; just exercise common sense. One last thing... could be whoever protected me stopped the kill. Maybe Magnus was the killer (I doubt, but he was stopped). One thing you know for sure is that I didn't try kill anyone last night, and as a roleblocker I may have even helped stop it. If anything gets taken away from this let it be that I don't answer empty threats, and won't ever do regardless of my alignment. It's really open to abuse and I'd rather people don't associate it with any one alignment.
Diageo Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Oh jeez, look at all this crap to sift through. A lot of overreactions and pointless repetition of the same points. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Nintendohnut is playing the offended victim so he has an excuse to post less. This is a game based on what people say. Let's not get all emotional over it. This shit is going overboard and in this game we have a higher chance of hitting a mafia member even if we just vote at random. And after all these shenanigans, we might as well lynch Sheikah, we'd learn a few things. Vote Sheikah
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Oh jeez, look at all this crap to sift through. A lot of overreactions and pointless repetition of the same points. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Nintendohnut is playing the offended victim so he has an excuse to post less. This is a game based on what people say. Let's not get all emotional over it. This shit is going overboard and in this game we have a higher chance of hitting a mafia member even if we just vote at random. And after all these shenanigans, we might as well lynch Sheikah, we'd learn a few things. Vote Sheikah You're not voting at random though, let's not forget. This is the lynch that Rummy really pushed. Let's not forget this when it comes to the grand reveal. Like I say, I'd be extremely shocked if Rummy turned out to be town. His whole behaviour is completely different to how he is when he's town.
The Peeps Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Given the fact that Rummy made as much of an effort as possible to let Sheikah reveal his own information while stating that what Sheikah did was actually in the thread already (proving Rummy knew that Sheikah was the one to roleblock Magnus)... I find it hard to believe Sheikah would still be town after this. I think it's poor play from him if he overlooked what Rummy was saying. His general reactions and behaviour since being accused seems scummy to me. Vote: Sheikah
Jonnas Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Sheikah, ultimately, we are the ones who make the decision of voting for you. Please stop acting like this was a one-man lynch train.
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Given the fact that Rummy made as much of an effort as possible to let Sheikah reveal his own information while stating that what Sheikah did was actually in the thread already (proving Rummy knew that Sheikah was the one to roleblock Magnus)... I find it hard to believe Sheikah would still be town after this. I think it's poor play from him if he overlooked what Rummy was saying. His general reactions and behaviour since being accused seems scummy to me. Vote: Sheikah Don't bother trying to justify his crappy reasoning. At the end of the day a threat is a threat. If he wants to tell me that he saw me do something, then by all means he can tell me this and I will explain it. I'm not going to reveal my character info at the beginning of D2 over absolutely nothing. I'm setting a precedent that I don't respond to empty threats: if it takes this game for me to establish that then so be it. I'm not having people basically stating 'I know what you did so tell me everything'. People might find that scummy now, but from now I'll just refer people to this to explain why I'm saying nothing and that it clearly doesn't mean I am Mafia. Even if there is a hint to suggest somebody knows something about me, it is just coward to accuse and vote for people without evidence. Mafia are just going to think they are info gatherers anyway so they may as well reveal their info. In fact your post makes less sense when you think about it Peeps- if I was Mafia, I'd be more inclined to reveal my info as soon as Rummy hinted he knew something given there's less chance of me being killed by the Mafia once my info was out since I was myself Mafia. I don't see how it's Mafia at all to not reveal something unless challenged on D2. The Mafia are still clearly capable of seeing Rummy's threat and are just as capable of revealing whether they are roleblockers or not as a result of this challenge. I know that as a town roleblocker there was probably no win for me here no matter what I did- either killed by lynch or killed by the Mafia for being a roleblocker and an info gatherer in one, before the end of the game is up (unless there are no night kills). I was therefore using a deterrent - Rummy was clearly very hesitant to commit to revealing anything about what he found out (and still is in many respects) so my best bet was to leave him to his own devices and allow him to either keep it to himself or share it. If he chose to reveal it, or if I revealed it, I'd most certainly be dead before then end of the game anyway - roleblocker and info gatherer in one. Lastly I'll say how one dimensional people are being. Rather than saying 'that's not a town thing to do', how about broadening your horizons rather than playing using a 'guide to Mafia behaviour' textbook that no doubt the Mafia live by. There's no reason to assume that everyone should conform to a specific play style. If I don't want to rise to a threat, so what? That doesn't mean I'm Mafia at all. At the end of the day I am guilty of being a roleblocker who had no intention of outing himself on the second day. And you're all guilty of using poor rationalising. Now, if anything else comes from this let it be Rummy's lynch. He has never played so aggressively before when town and never pushed a lynch so hard, nor been so utterly impervious to reason from the other side. His tracking info is legit but there's no reason to believe that he isn't Mafia. In fact he probably is Mafia, given how many there are. Sheikah, ultimately, we are the ones who make the decision of voting for you. Please stop acting like this was a one-man lynch train. He could have accused me of something straight away like people normally do when starting a lynch. He has blown this way out of proportion over a simple principle - that I don't respond to empty threats. He milked this fact for several pages making it appear that I had plenty of chance and time to reveal something about myself - even though he knew straight away I was never going to do so So yeah, I will blame him for convincing you I am guilty, and you should too. Edited March 21, 2013 by Sheikah
DuD Posted March 21, 2013 Author Posted March 21, 2013 Vote update: Sheikah (7) : Rummy, Marcamillian, Jonnas, Cube, Magnus Peterson, Diageo, The Peeps. Majority is 8.
The Peeps Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 It was more than 'I know what you did'. It was 'I know what you did and it's already been mentioned in the thread' - which it had been. With Magnus being to only real reveal of what happened to anyone on night 1, it should've been obvious to you what Rummy knew. Remove vote I do think we need more time on this anyway. [2nd post] the only* It did seem like an empty threat to most of us (at least to me) but you know what you did and Rummy said he knew too and that it had been revealed in the thread. That's enough for you to know what he knows but you acted like it was completely baseless.
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Like I said though, I either reveal I'm a roleblocker with tracking abilities on D2 and probably be killed soon after given the lack of much else to go on for the Mafia, or potentially be outed by someone (who I did try to tell to employ tact). The Mafia could even have a redirector and get a 2 in 1 move by redirecting me at night if they don't want to kill me straight away. Either way there is no way out of this shitty situation. The best you can hope is to set a precedent - if I refuse to answer empty threats in future games people can't simply reason that I must be Mafia, as you'll known from this game.
DuD Posted March 21, 2013 Author Posted March 21, 2013 Vote update: Sheikah (6) : Rummy, Marcamillian, Jonnas, Cube, Magnus Peterson, Diageo. Majority is 8.
Mr-Paul Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 It wasn't an empty threat, and I have reason to believe Rummy is telling the truth. He knows what you did, you know he does, and you were waiting until he came out with the info so you could create your explanation knowing what he had on you. Do you want to come clean why Donkey Kong was date-raping someone rather than hitting them or giving them a banana? I get the impression you're not being totally honest and I'll only not vote if you give a good explanation of your role/power rather than another 10 pages of arguments with Rummy. I haven't ruled out the possibility that Magnus was the killer and you stopped him, but you're making yourself look awfully scummy.
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Again, it wasn't an empty threat. Even though I knew he probably knew something about me, he accused me of nothing. I'm not going to answer to someone who votes for me without clearly stating why. Why should I? It's not like he's going to to rally a lynch over nothing. Plus it almost seemed like he wouldn't reveal it given how long he dragged it on so at least in not bending I had a chance. Also note that initially it could have been he tracked me and knew I targeted Magnus, but at that point he had no idea that I was the one to roleblock him, it could have been someone else who targeted him. He was trying to extract a lot of information from potentially a small lead. Either way I have explained that there was no good outcome for me regardless of whether I revealed myself or he did.
The Peeps Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Are you deliberately ignoring my point about how Rummy mentioned what he knew about you had already been revealed in the thread? Also please answer Mr-Paul's question.
Sheikah Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Surely survival is better than being lynched? In what parallel universe would I survive? All that would happen is that Rummy would probably have said that I was only answering because I was spotted by him. Him opening with a vote on me at the very beginning suggested he'd already made up his mind. Even if I had convinced town, the Mafia are hardly going to leave a roleblocker and info gatherer combo untouched, are they? No, even if Rummy claimed to know something he at least had the chance to not reveal it. If I revealed myself, there's no way I could win.
The Peeps Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Vote: Sheikah Answer the questions put to you. Why would Donkey Kong be roleblocking in that manner. Sounds more like Dr. Mario.
Cube Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Even if I had convinced town, the Mafia are hardly going to leave a roleblocker and info gatherer combo untouched, are they? Then why did you mention the info gatherer part? I suspect your attitude is the main thing convincing people.
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