General Gaming Sales/Charts Discussion

[Sheikah]

Yep. No matter what happens, Sony have the lion's share of 3rd party support this generation. Just goes to show that you don't need quality exclusive games to sell hardware...

 

Oh, the venom. :p

 

It amuses me how some people can still possibly believe this. You only need to look at the last generation to see that out of the 3 consoles, the PS3 had more exclusive new IP by a long shot. People don't forget that.

 

You've also got to factor that it was marketed well (for the players), is priced great and is by quite some margin the superior piece of tech. Of course people and developers are going to get behind it.

[Hero-of-Time]

TBH, most of their success simply comes by not screwing up like MS did. Nintendo was never in the running for this market, so Sony won simply by not trying to screw consumers royally. For better or worse, it has become the "default" console.

 

If MS had put up a better fight, then "gimmicks" might have ended up being more important (and that's not to say that they didn't try some new things like the touchpad on the DS4, or game broadcasting - which of course MS did as well).

 

All it proves is that game quality means nothing for hardware adoption. Even if the same games can be played on the hardware they already own, they're gonna jump in because they know that they will have to eventually. Where else are they gonna go? It might as well be a monopoly!

 

Microsoft shot themselves in the foot due to their gimmick, which is Kinect. This is something nobody asked for yet as a consumer you are forced to drop an extra £80 on it over the PS4. If they had dropped the Kinect and just released the console at a cheaper price point then there is no doubt in my mind things would have been a hell of a lot better for Microsoft.

 

I have a XBOne and the Kinect, while better than the original version, is still largely useless from a gaming stand point.

 

I think it was @Sheikah you made the very valid point of why people buy consoles early on and most of the time the early adopters do it due to what will be on offer in the future. The exclusive games may not be out yet but you know you will get games such as Uncharted, God of War etc. on the PS4 and Halo and Gears on the Xbox, much like how you know you will get a Mario or Zelda on a Nintendo console.

[Dcubed]

Oh, the venom. :p

 

It amuses me how some people can still possibly believe this. You only need to look at the last generation to see that out of the 3 consoles, the PS3 had more exclusive new IP by a long shot. People don't forget that.

 

You've also got to factor that it was marketed well (for the players), is priced great and is by quite some margin the superior piece of tech. Of course people and developers are going to get behind it.

 

Yeah cause I'm sure that PS4 is selling off the back of Knack...

 

Killzone is hardly a hugely popular IP either. It just happens to be heavily bundled.

 

No, it's selling because of the 3rd party games it has and because it has the most promising future.

 

Microsoft shot themselves in the foot due to their gimmick, which is Kinect. This is something nobody asked for yet as a consumer you are forced to drop an extra £80 on it over the PS4. If they had dropped the Kinect and just released the console at a cheaper price point then there is no doubt in my mind things would have been a hell of a lot better for Microsoft.

 

I have a XBOne and the Kinect, while better than the original version, is still largely useless from a gaming stand point.

 

I think it was @Sheikah you made the very valid point of why people buy consoles and most of the time the early adopters do it due to what will be on offer in the future. The exclusive games may not be out yet but you know you will get games such as Uncharted, God of War etc. on the PS4 and Halo and Gears on the Xbox, much like how you know you will get a Mario or Zelda on a Nintendo console.

 

The biggest mistake MS made was not even Kinect, but rather it was the DRM fiasco. People don't trust them now (and for good reason); all of the good will that MS had spent a decade building up with the Xbox was flushed down the toilet overnight. Of course the price/tech difference doesn't help either, but that was their big Third Console Curse fuckup that will continue to haunt them throughout the whole generation, even if they do choose to remove the Kinect and drop the price.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Dcubed

[Daft]

It's easy to say Sony 'won' by not screwing but really it takes a massive amount of coordination and confidence to pull off a project like the PS4, which has been in concept for a few years now. Behind the PS4 has been three or four years of overhauling the Playstation division (well the PS3, less said about the Vita the better), acquiring new studios, setting up solid second party relationships, taking risks with IPs, finding new strategies (like with Plus), building better infrastructure - not to mention sorting out their attitude.

 

Make no mistake, Sony has done a lot more than just not screw up. And it's paying dividends now.

[Wii]

How much longer do you give the Wii U? I'm guessing this time next year they'll wrap things up. Sales are down so far on last years, 8 retail releases from January to July. All the secondhand sites I look at, people are selling their Wii U's and there's little interest being shown from would be buyers. There's no way this can continue for at least another 5 years. Retailers will force their hand. Some have discontinued already and others might as well have. I seen nothing from the supposed Tesco deal, wtf was that about? It's exactly as was, nothing. The Wii U is dead and a handful of Nintendo titles scattered throughout the year won't make a blind bit of difference.

[Serebii]

How much longer do you give the Wii U? I'm guessing this time next year they'll wrap things up. Sales are down so far on last years, 8 retail releases from January to July. All the secondhand sites I look at, people are selling their Wii U's and there's little interest being shown from would be buyers. There's no way this can continue for at least another 5 years. Retailers will force their hand. Some have discontinued already and others might as well have. I seen nothing from the supposed Tesco deal, wtf was that about? It's exactly as was, nothing. The Wii U is dead and a handful of Nintendo titles scattered throughout the year won't make a blind bit of difference.

The Wii U is going nowhere. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they're going to scrap it before it even hits its third birthday. That would be horrific for their business and would erode consumer faith in Nintendo.

 

Faith was already shaken by the 3DS price drop. Due to that, so many were saying they'd wait til the Wii U has a similar massive price drop, since it was suddenly expected.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Serebii

[Hero-of-Time]

It's easy to say Sony 'won' by not screwing but really it takes a massive amount of coordination and confidence to pull off a project like the PS4, which has been in concept for a few years now. Behind the PS4 has been three or four years of overhauling the Playstation division (well the PS3, less said about the Vita the better), acquiring new studios, setting up solid second party relationships, taking risks with IPs, finding new strategies (like with Plus), building better infrastructure - not to mention sorting out their attitude.

 

Make no mistake, Sony has done a lot more than just not screw up. And it's paying dividends now.

 

Very true.

 

The way they handled the PS3 after its rough start was nothing short of amazing. They manage to turn the brand around and get on the good side of the consumer again. The rebranding of the console was the start of comeback and it has continued ever since.

 

The Wii U is going nowhere.

 

Pretty much this.

 

They can't just magically pull a new console out of the hat. They will continue to support it the best they can until they are ready to launch their next console.

[Serebii]

Very true.

 

The way they handled the PS3 after its rough start was nothing short of amazing. They manage to turn the brand around and get on the good side of the consumer again. The rebranding of the console was the start of comeback and it has continued ever since.

 

 

 

Pretty much this.

 

They can't just magically pull a new console out of the hat. They will continue to support it the best they can until they are ready to launch their next console.

Exactly. The Wii U will plod along, as a relatively niche console, eventually turning a nice, albeit small, profit. Its lineup is already top-notch, and there is much more to come. It'll be remembered in years to come as a massively under-rated console.

 

Then, in 2016/2017, Nintendo will come out full force and hopefully change the tide. Bring gaming back to how it should be. No wanting to be screwed by microtransactions, bad ports, horrific paywalls and ridiculous policies.

 

If Nintendo ever leaves, or becomes third party, it would be a very, very dark day indeed. Besides, contrary to what a lot of people believe, Nintendo don't HAVE to be at the top to be successful or "not dead".

Edited March 4, 2014 by Serebii

[Wii]

I know all the negatives but somethings got to give. You can't have a ghost console for 6 years. What retailer is going to be selling it in say 2 years time? This cannot continue indefinitely. Wii U has had a price drop. Some retailers are under selling just to try and get rid of it.

 

@Serebii What profit has the Wii U made so far? What profit will it make this year? Likely answer, none.

[Goron_3]

Nintendo just need to release a console that is as successful as the N64 (okay, maybe with better sales in Japan) and with a lot of software and they will make a hefty profit.

 

Congrats Sony...amazing job.

[Serebii]

I know all the negatives but somethings got to give. You can't have a ghost console for 6 years. What retailer is going to be selling it in say 2 years time? This cannot continue indefinitely. Wii U has had a price drop. Some retailers are under selling just to try and get rid of it.

 

@Serebii What profit has the Wii U made so far? What profit will it make this year? Likely answer, none.

I said profit eventually, not profit right now. Jeez.

[Sheikah]

Yeah cause I'm sure that PS4 is selling off the back of Knack...

 

You're making the same mistake I've seen others make. You're looking at what's available right now as opposed to what will be available; and what people know is coming. It will be very well supported. And priced as it is, it's not getting any major discounts soon. Whether you buy it now or in a year's time will have little cost difference.

 

To put it simply - it is doing well as it has a future, like you say. But that future is games, the very thing you first commented that the PS4 didn't need to sell a console.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Sheikah

[Hero-of-Time]

I know all the negatives but somethings got to give. You can't have a ghost console for 6 years. What retailer is going to be selling it in say 2 years time? This cannot continue indefinitely. Wii U has had a price drop. Some retailers are under selling just to try and get rid of it.

 

I'm interested in seeing what plans they have for the NFC. Having just got into Disney Infinity, if Nintendo were to do something very similar to this, I imagine the console and figures would sell great. Something as simple as this could easily turn things around.

[Serebii]

You're making the same mistake I've seen others make. You're looking at what's available right now as opposed to what will be available; and what people know is coming. It will be very well supported. And priced as it is, it's not getting any major discounts soon. Whether you buy it now or in a year's time will have little cost difference.

 

To put it simply - it is doing well as it has a future, like you say. But that future is games, the very thing you first commented that you don't nerd to sell a console.

But would people not find it logical to get it at the times the games they want come out? Chances are the console would be cheaper then, too.

 

Yes, the future prospects have got a factor in it, but it's not a large part.

 

I'm interested in seeing what plans they have for the NFC. Having just got into Disney Infinity, if Nintendo were to do something very similar to this, I imagine the console and figures would sell great. Something as simple as this could easily turn things around.

I would support a Pokémon spin-off that fully uses the NFC feature, would be huge.

 

However, so would the collection:

 

885 figures, $10 a figure, that's $8,850 on figures. Factor in shinies and it gets ridiculous.

 

Nintendo are a bit too moral to inflict that on kids and parents.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Serebii
Automerged Doublepost

[Wii]

I don't see it turning any profit unfortunately. Unless cost of production goes down quicker than the retail price and like I said who'll be left to sell it? This is a loss making console unlike all the others and with worse sales to match. The amount of times people have said this game or this game will start the sales flowing. I wouldn't even call it a false dawn, nothing has worked so far. MK8 really is the last chance saloon but I have my doubts.

[Sheikah]

Why not get it now? Play the definitive console versions of multi format games that now cost the same as the last gen titles when they hit. I'm getting my PS4 later this month along with Infamous, making the PS4 about £335. It's really not going to get much cheaper in a year, so why wait and continue to play inferior versions of newly released games?

[Serebii]

I don't see it turning any profit unfortunately. Unless cost of production goes down quicker than the retail price and like I said who'll be left to sell it? This is a loss making console unlike all the others and with worse sales to match. The amount of times people have said this game or this game will start the sales flowing. I wouldn't even call it a false dawn, nothing has worked so far. MK8 really is the last chance saloon but I have my doubts.

Unlike all the others? So the 360 and PS3 weren't sold at a loss? They haven't even broken even if memory served.

[Hero-of-Time]

I would support a Pokémon spin-off that fully uses the NFC feature, would be huge.

 

However, so would the collection:

 

885 figures, $10 a figure, that's $8,850 on figures. Factor in shinies and it gets ridiculous.

 

Nintendo are a bit too moral to inflict that on kids and parents.

 

I think that Pokemon would be too big, as you have stated. A general Nintendo one, with favourite Pokemon included, would do quite well though.

 

Unlike all the others? So the 360 and PS3 weren't sold at a loss? They haven't even broken even if memory served.

 

I think he meant other N consoles.

[Daft]

But would people not find it logical to get it at the times the games they want come out? Chances are the console would be cheaper then, too.

 

Yes, the future prospects have got a factor in it, but it's not a large part.

 

I don't think it's that simple. I bought it to buy Infamous but I've had a a lot of fun playing other games in the meantime. Ground Zero and Infamous are pretty solid reasons to buy a console, they're out in a few weeks so now is a good a time as any to buy one - if those are the games you're looking forward to.

 

It's not like the future prospects are that far away. A couple of them are incoming.

 

Also, logically the price isn't going to drop for a while.

[Dcubed]

You're making the same mistake I've seen others make. You're looking at what's available right now as opposed to what will be available; and what people know is coming. It will be very well supported. And priced as it is, it's not getting any major discounts soon. Whether you buy it now or in a year's time will have little cost difference.

 

To put it simply - it is doing well as it has a future, like you say. But that future is games, the very thing you first commented that you don't nerd to sell a console.

 

I said that you don't need "quality exclusive games" to sell a console. People are buying it because they know that they'll need one in the future to continue playing "proper" versions of games like Fifa and COD.

 

Sony's IPs aren't really massive sellers. Ignoring Gran Turismo (which is an outlier), their franchises generally cap out at around 5 million sales (with most of their major ones actually hovering at around 1-3 million typically). It's the promise of multiplatform 3rd party games that is selling the PS4, not exclusives.

 

Why not get it now? Play the definitive console versions of multi format games that now cost the same as the last gen titles when they hit. I'm getting my PS4 later this month along with Infamous, making the PS4 about £335. It's really not going to get much cheaper in a year, so why wait and continue to play inferior versions of newly released games?

 

Pretty much this line of thinking exactly...

[Wii]

I'm interested in seeing what plans they have for the NFC. Having just got into Disney Infinity, if Nintendo were to do something very similar to this, I imagine the console and figures would sell great. Something as simple as this could easily turn things around.

 

They'll be relying on the casuals for that and that hasn't panned out too well so far. I really dislike the toy merchandising, I think it's a scam. If they come up with other functions great but the toys is just a gimmick and isn't necessary.

 

I'm still waiting for Wii U's first major killer must have game. MK8 while great and I'll buy it, is just more of the same, Smash the same. X or Zelda will most likely be for me the first truly must have unless something crawls out of the woodwork in the meantime.

 

Yes I meant other Nintendo consoles.

[Serebii]

I think that Pokemon would be too big, as you have stated. A general Nintendo one, with favourite Pokemon included, would do quite well though.

 

 

 

I think he meant other N consoles.

Ah, fair enough.

 

Still, MS and Sony have screwed with the model. Combined, they sold over 160 million units last gen, and overall neither came out at a large profit. They both had ridiculous losses. That is not sustainable business. The development part of the industry has also suffered similar issues. Sure, some due to bad budgeting, but it's got the a ridiculous point.

 

The PS4 is the most likely one to buck this trend, but really it's just a mid-range PC using off the shelf parts with a unique operating system. Is that really how gaming should be now? Just drop an extra £50 and you can get a fairly decent PC that can do better (My PC was £500 and is more powerful than the PS4)

 

I don't think it's that simple. I bought it to buy Infamous but I've had a a lot of fun playing other games in the meantime. Ground Zero and Infamous are pretty solid reasons to buy a console, they're out in a few weeks so now is a good a time as any to buy one - if those are the games you're looking forward to.

 

It's not like the future prospects are that far away. A couple of them are incoming.

 

Also, logically the price isn't going to drop for a while.

Isn't Ground Zero a one hour long "game" for over £30? I don't see that as a reason to buy a PS4, I see that as a reason to think that the industry is in dire straits.

[Hero-of-Time]

They'll be relying on the casuals for that and that hasn't panned out too well so far. I really dislike the toy merchandising, I think it's a scam. If they come up with other functions great but the toys is just a gimmick and isn't necessary.

 

It's one that has proved to be very successful for both Disney and Activision. Nintendo have many characters with a certain amount of pull on people. Disney have the same effect and you just have to look at the Infinity thread on Gaf to see that it's not just casuals but gamers as well who would be interested in such a Nintendo product.

 

If you don't like it then that's fine but I personally think it would be a great way to get kids back to playing on Nintendo console, rather than running around shooting others in the face on the likes of CoD.

[Sheikah]

I said that you don't need "quality exclusive games" to sell a console. People are buying it because they know that they'll need one in the future to continue playing "proper" versions of games like Fifa and COD.

No, that's not true at all. It will have the exclusives, and people know that. Just not yet.

 

Just look at the PS3. It by far had more exclusive new IP of the last gen. Particularly in terms of Japanese games, too - the 360 lacked so many of these. People don't just know that the PS4 will run multiformats the best (aside from PC); they remember what awesome IP they got on the PS3. Those PS3 games developers aren't likely to pass up the PS4.

 

The argument again comes down to 'the future'. People will argue that because tens of exclusives aren't announced right now that it will have poor exclusive support. Which if you look how well the PS3 did, which lacked all the signs of the PS4 runaway success at this stage of its life, just doesn't make sense. Since when do people ignore the not-so-distant past when determining the future?

 

Also regarding sales - that's a bit of a moot point. Even if individual titles don't sell like Nintendo's, they distinguish the console and give people more reason to buy it than a competitor's. And people are getting given a lot of games included with Plus these days, so it's really hard to quantify the numbers who are playing their games. Nintendo consoles also pretty much exist to sell Nintendo games these days, so it's hardly surprising that people who have bought the console then buy the only games available. It's like when there were only 2 or 3 channels available to watch - programs would draw in massive viewing figures.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Sheikah

[Daft]

The PS4 is the most likely one to buck this trend, but really it's just a mid-range PC using off the shelf parts with a unique operating system. Is that really how gaming should be now? Just drop an extra £50 and you can get a fairly decent PC that can do better (My PC was £500 and is more powerful than the PS4)

 

Why do you simplify things all the time? It's not just anything. It's a machine supported by a multitude of companies that is guaranteed support for years. It is convenient; it is a content stream (with Plus); it will be the home to some of the best first party studios in the world; it's a machine that generates hype and will continue to evolve with stuff like Playstration Now; it has a vital presence in shops and at home - it's cultural relevance is so important; it is more than the sum of its parts.

 

Calling it just a 'mid-range PC' is SO facile. It really shows how little you understand the industry and its commercial reality when you label it as such.

 

Isn't Ground Zero a one hour long "game" for over £30? I don't see that as a reason to buy a PS4, I see that as a reason to think that the industry is in dire straits.

 

Right, well you don't see the value but, you might need to sit down for this, the universe doesn't revolve around you; it's why I wrote 'if those are the games you're looking forward to'.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Daft