Nintendo Conference (5.00pm - 5th June)

[dazzybee]

If I can't talk to my mates with some kind of party chat then I couldn't give a toss how intuitive the Miiverse is. Nintendo want the Wii U to be a social machine? Then lets us TALK to people!

 

I may very well be blowing this out of proportion, as Nintendo may have this system in place, but until they come out and tell us about their online plans, i'm going to remain pessimistic.

 

This roundtable they had, did none of the press think to ask about Nintendo's online plans or infrastructure? Or are they only allowed to ask certain things?

 

No they never. It was infuriating. These gaming fucking journalists asked questions like "How do you come up with ideas for so many nintendo games", and "can we transfer our VC games" - who gives a fuck about the first and the one previous was confirmed hours before by NINTENDO THEMSELEVES - great journalists.

 

How did they not say - so what actually is Miiverse because you still haven't fully explained it. Or what is your online service? Is their voice chat, achievements, blah blah blah NOTHING. Nintendo not explaining it to us us is further worrying! But, like you, let's hope it has everything we all want and need in 2012 gaming!

[Hero-of-Time]

Posted Edges PS3 and 360 remarks in their threads the other day. Now Edge rate Nintendo's conference.

 

So, we got one answer to the big E3 Nintendo questions. If Reggie Fils-Aime was a zombie, he’d say, “I like French food”. Zombies don't talk, of course, though we suspect that were Reggie somehow infected, he'd find a way. To the rest of the questions the faithful keenly posited on across the Internet before and during Nintendo’s E3 2012 press conference, we’re none the wiser: Wii U Zelda? Animal Crossing? Smash Bros? How powerful is Wii U, anyway? Wario Ware? Platinum’s game? Where the hell was Platinum’s game?

 

Does it matter? Yes and no. What we do know is that Wii U will be home to a roster of proven successes, but not a whole lot of actual surprises. The jury’s most certainly still out about Nintendo Land, but, more importantly, also about the hardware itself.

 

It started well, though. There was Miyamoto, calm and genial as you like, dressing backstage with help from his Pikmin. And then he came out on to the stage, only to find more Pikmin in the audience and call more colleagues with his Pikmin whistle. Oh, to be Shigeru Miyamoto.

 

And then straight into the finer points of Pikmin 3’s design, proving that of all the platform holders, only Nintendo still seems to value game design as a way of promoting its wares. More of that, please. It’s a pity, then, that beyond the introduction of new Pikmin types and four leaders to control, Pikmin 3, created for hardware two generations above its predecessors, looks decidedly familiar.

 

Still, Pikmin 3 was just the start, right? Right! Fils-Aime strode powerfully out on to the stage to casually sketch out plans for Wii U’s media partnerships, only to say today was all about showing off 23 Wii U games, and then announce that 3DS would get its very own showcase later in the week. Otherwise, he said, there simply wouldn’t be time for the company's plans for its glasses-free handheld amid all the Wii U titles. Sadly - and incredibly - it would become evident that, aside from a lot of polishing, we wouldn’t see many ideas much further developed than the doodlings Nintendo flung out on Wii U’s unveiling last year.

 

Nintendo at least succeeded in its clear aim to, for better or worse, own E3. Not content to unexpectedly kick the whole event off with a Wii U stripdown on Sunday, moving 3DS' news to another event spread out Nintendo’s shadow over the show still further. But with such weak showings from Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo’s won attention by default. But was its own conference any better, given that it was the only platform holder with a new console to show off?

 

Nintendo’s firstparty games are, at least, solidly founded on the successes it’s found on Wii. New Super Mario Bros U might be the popular Mario the critics don’t like very much, rather than the proper one that the masses shrug their shoulders at, but the masses count, and the game, shown alongside its integration with Miiverse to allow realtime social interaction while playing, looks little less than sure to be a bundled sale with most new consoles.

 

And so to the thirdparty games, and the way Wii U’s unique controller can enhance their core gameplay, led by the “extreme personality” (according to a video of Harley Quinn) of Warners president Martin Tremblay, who introduced us to the extremities of Batman Arkham City: Armored Edition. If you can call what more or less amounts to a DLC pack "extreme", anyway.

 

Then to something new: Scribblenauts Unlimited, one of the few unknowns in a set of reveals we’ve either fundamentally played or already knew about, and are firmly set in the current generation of games: Mass Effect 3, Tank! Tank! Tank!, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Trine 2: Director's Cut, Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor’s Edge, Aliens: Colonial Marines.

 

The lack of surprises here was a surprise in itself, given former pronouncements about the centrality of thirdparty needs to Wii U’s planning. Later we’d see TT Games' multiformat Lego City: Undercover. Other than Scribblenauts, the only exclusive Wii U thirdparty game was Ubisoft’s excellent-looking Zombi U, unveiled during the publisher's E3 presentation yesterday. London-set? Permadeath? We'll take that, though the post-conference realisation that the trailer shown off was entirely CG -player hands and all - was quite the disappointment.

 

Back to solid ground, Wii Fit U will be the other bundled favourite. But perhaps the most interesting use of Wii U’s unique capabilities was taken by DJ Hero developer FreeStyleGames' Sing, a refreshing take on the karaoke party game which uses the Wii U controller to take the focus from the TV and onto the players.

 

On to the cruelly strangulated 3DS, the fortunes of which we really can’t make any calls on until later in the week. Its cutting from the main event treated us to a little US company exec pantomime between Fils-Aime and ‘disgruntled’ executive VP of sales and marketing Scott Moffitt, who still managed to reveal more on New Super Mario Bros 2, reveal Paper Mario Sticker Star, and show off Luigi’s Mansion Dark Moon anyway. Oh, and a showreel of other exclusives, including Konami mouthful Castlevania Lords Of Shadow: Mirror Of Fate and Disney Epic Mickey: Power of Illusion. Given the Wii U lineup that followed, perhaps the 3DS stuff was bumped not because of time constraints, but because a release slate of such apparent breadth and quality cast Wii U's in an unflattering light.

 

Perhaps Ubisoft might save the day, again. We genuinely found ourselves wondering whether the publisher's transmedia goblin CEO, Yves Guillemot, and its dashing French Studios MD Xavier Poix, might actually have another secret up their delicately perfumed sleeves. But no. Still, Ubisoft has had a storming lineup this year for every platform, and when the dust is settled we all need to ponder if this is the first time a thirdparty publisher, rather than a platform holder, has 'won' E3.

 

So yeah, Nintendo Land. It’s safe to say that Katsuya Eguchi failed to show the magic so evident in Animal Crossing and Wii Sports. A virtual Nintendo theme park, Nintendo Land is apparently to Wii U what Wii Sports was to Wii. "Play it," Reggie pledged, "and you begin to understand." But then, Wii Sports was a packed-in game for Wii, at least in the west - it doesn’t sound like Nintendo Land will be nestled against Wii U in the box come launch day, which will severely dent its chances of proving its strengths.

 

Eguchi unfortunately showed how a passion for relating game design can profoundly flatten an otherwise very promising-looking game, deflating with a interminably long, slow parking sound Nintendo Land’s Luigi’s Ghost Mansion - based on the asymmetric delights of the classic GameCube/GBA matchup delights of Pac-Man Vs - with an explanation of its scoring system.

 

As it happens, Nintendo Land is one of the few nods we've seen at E3 so far to the kinds of games that are exploding off the main consoles, particularly on iOS. The problem is that it’s all locked into Nintendo, and as such seems little more than a series of minigames. Thoughts like that just led us to wondering how we’d feel if Nintendo had unveiled some incredible App Store-like system whereby any developer could submit games to a downloadable game marketplace. We’d feel great, as it happens. It’s all too incredible, but it would set Wii U into an entirely new light.

 

Meanwhile, more practically, Wii U’s precise hardware specs are still a mystery. Presumably they’ll become apparent over the next few days, but the biggest question that lies over Wii U is just how well it will stand against the coming next generation. On the evidence of what we saw today, the answer is not awfully well. No game shown looked technically out of the bounds of 360; Arkham City arguably looked worse. One has to question, too, the wisdom of taking so much time looking at Batman's GamePad inventory when Platinum's P-100, and a new Wario Ware game, were kept off the stage, relegated instead to Nintendo's website.

 

So it looks like Nintendo’s going to try to pull another Wii on the world, hoping that a controller with a screen will be enough to win it attention in the flare of flashier other platforms. Can we stand to see this happen again? How will thirdparties feel about having to craft cut-down versions of their games, which also incorporate second-screen functionality, to also release on Wii U?

 

“The tool of together,” Fils-Aime called it. The challenge is on for Nintendo to convince that it’s the tool of tomorrow, rather than simply the tool of today.

[dazzybee]

Oh and however much I'm bitching like a baby, I'll be getting this day one, no point even trying to kid myself. Doesn't stop me being incredibly disappointed and worried about its future

[Hero-of-Time]

Pretty sure they mentioned about parties and that while explaining Miiverse on Sunday...

 

They mentioned messaging not voice chat. They also showed video chat while pausing the game to talk to grandad, again not cross game chat.

[dazzybee]

Fantastic post by Edge, spot on, and not as sensationalist as me and the other moaners on the site :P

 

They mentioned messaging not voice chat. They also showed video chat while pausing the game to talk to grandad, again not cross game chat.

 

Personally cross game chat is something I couldn't give two hoots about, when I'm playing games I want to play the game, that's it. Unless I'm playing a game with someone.

 

HOWEVER, I realise it's a feature a lot of people do love and Nintendo need to provide everything. Let US decide how we want o communicate etc. But Nintendo have a habit of telling us how to play and communicate.

[Hero-of-Time]

Fantastic post by Edge, spot on, and not as sensationalist as me and the other moaners on the site :P

 

I've pretty much agreed with every article they have posted in regards to the big 3 conferences.

[yesteryeargames]

Nintendoland will be fantasic fun i can wait for that

Pikmin 3 !!!!!!! mario u, zombie u

 

and possibly a creed ,wii fit u, tank tank tank p 100? is going to be a fun launch

 

 

It would have been nice just for 1 game to truely show off the graphics , but nevermind.

 

I wish they pushed for donkey kong country for either 3ds or wii u instead of 2 marios a once, why not spread them out

[Hero-of-Time]

Eurogamer speaks about Nintendo's conference.

 

With Microsoft and Sony in a state of détente a year out from their respective next-generation reveals, Nintendo had a great opportunity this week to convince you, me and the rest of its fans that Wii U will be worth buying this Christmas. But despite the encouraging way it trailed its E3 conference over the weekend, it completely blew it.

 

In the end, the conference that we were told would be about nothing but Wii U games was also a little bit about hardware and a little bit about the 3DS anyway, but the hardest pill for hyped-up Nintendo fans to swallow was that so few of the games were exclusives aimed at them. Just Pikmin 3 and New Super Mario Bros. U, and the reception to the latter suggested that it's already become the second-tier Mario series in most people's minds.

 

Subsequently we learned of Platinum Games' P-100 (which looks weird and fun, and has Hideki Kamiya and Atsushi Inaba working on it) and a Wario Ware game, but these trickled out into a storm of internet indignation and could do little to relieve it. There was no sign of Retro Studios' game either - something hardcore fans were deeply hoping to see - and no reference to Masahiro Sakurai's ongoing Smash Bros. project announced last year.

 

Nintendo Land, though well-intentioned, fell completely flat - I have never, ever witnessed only a smattering of polite applause at the end of a Nintendo conference. In the atmosphere of snap judgements that pervades E3 platform holder presentations, where everything must be hastily categorised and there is no patience for explanation, Katsuya Eguchi's interesting and reasonable demonstration of the concepts barely penetrated the air in front of his face, so clouded was it by anticipation, and it was simply too easy for those at the Nokia Theatre and viewing at home to label it a mini-games compilation aimed at casual gamers. Repeated allusions to Wii Sports - a mini-game compilation that transcended preconceptions - as a reference point also failed to have the desired effect.

 

In truth, of course, Nintendo Land is much more than a mini-games compilation as well, as we discovered when we played it straight after its unveiling. It's more Wii Play than Wii Sports, but it is home to a lot of neat concepts that are well-executed, have the potential to scale, and help to convey the system's unique capabilities in enjoyable ways.

 

So too were some of the other concepts demonstrated during the conference, and it was much better for everyone that they were all to be found in real games this year. Warner's use of the Wii U GamePad in Batman: Arkham City's Armored Edition was compelling, and the use of Miiverse in Scribblenauts Unlimited had more than a touch of Draw Something to it. Elsewhere, FreeStyleGames' SING could make karaoke even more social by allowing singers to face their audience rather than staring at a screen.

 

But of course Nintendo failed to grasp several important things. For one, as Geoff Keighley tried to explain to Reggie Fils-Aime in almost heated exchanges on Spike TV right after the conference, everyone who knew they wanted a Batman game already bought Arkham City last year and they will not be convinced to give WB and Nintendo $60 for another copy no matter how elaborate the embellishments.

 

The same will probably be true for Darksiders 2, Mass Effect 3 and any other third-party games on Nintendo's list of 23 that happen to be out on other systems before November or December or whenever Wii U is released. (And that's before you get on to whether they will even look as good on Wii U, which for a host of reasons - the maturity of content pipelines on PS3/360 compared to a new Nintendo system, retrospective porting processes, etc - it's hard to imagine that they will.)

 

For all this negativity, it's still important to remember that E3 conferences only live long in our memories, and E3 itself can be a poor barometer for success. Nintendo itself should know this, having sounded out of touch in 2005 when it announced Revolution (before we knew about the Wii controller and witnessed the magic and creativity) and having appeared ahead of the curve in 2010 when it unveiled 3DS (before getting a little too far ahead of its own curve by shipping too early and at the wrong price point). Success or failure at E3 can be made and unmade just as quickly.

 

And if you look beyond the names and 'sizzle' reels, the content was rich with spark and imagination: sharing ingenious word combinations in Scribblenauts over the internet using your GamePad and Miiverse; tracking a ghost by touch and communication in Luigi's Ghost Mansion; marshalling followers with touch controls in Pikmin 3; griefing speed-running friends in Mario Bros. U; or finding just the right touch for a perfect throwing star parabola in Takamaru's Ninja Castle. There was actually more originality buried in Nintendo's conference than the rest of E3 put together.

 

As Oli Welsh said when he actually got to play it, "in many ways Nintendo Land shows the Kyoto developers at their best: realising new gameplay ideas with clarity, perfecting tactile control schemes and designing with clever restraint." When viewed dispassionately, there was lots of evidence of that throughout Nintendo's conference.

 

Of course a successful E3 conference must be a balancing act. Your indirect audience, in boardrooms and on the global markets, is vitally important, so you have to talk about strategic partnerships (because they pay the bills and open the door to similar arrangements elsewhere), and you have to show how you're targeting multiple demographics and communicating your product with brand extensions like Wii Fit U and Nintendo Land.

 

But if your direct audience is mostly vocal fans watching online, then you have to give them more than Nintendo was able to provide. You certainly can't get away with proudly saying you're going to show 23 new games and then it turns out that less than 10 per cent of them end up being relevant to that crowd. We've seen some unbelievable violence during E3 conferences so far this week, but even the sight of Sam Fisher stabbing someone repeatedly in the neck was nothing next to Nintendo's evisceration on NeoGAF after that.

 

Past precedents suggest this won't matter a whole lot if Nintendo finds a Metroid game or new Mario Galaxy hiding behind that plaque in Satoru Iwata's favourite pinewood boardroom between now and launch, but it's still quite stunning the degree to which Nintendo managed to go from hero to zero between Sunday night and Wednesday morning, and how even very good news - like support for two Wii U GamePads simultaneously, or the wonder of Pikmin 3 - has been completely overshadowed.

 

Perhaps the most depressing thing, however, is that I was able to use the phrase "unique capabilities" earlier for probably the first time in the whole of the 2012 Electronic Entertainment Expo, in reference to the Wii U, which is a potentially magical and wondrous piece of technology, but I had to do so in the context of savaging Nintendo's public relations. If nothing else underlines the scale of its conference blunder, then hopefully that does. A wasted opportunity.

[Captain Falcon]

Thanks for posting these @Hero\-of\-Time. I do go to EDGE's site but not particularly frequently these days.

 

I have to say this one was no where near as scathing, or as funny, as the critiques for the other two even though there was a fair opportunity to have at them.

 

There was a definite sense of "seen it all before" for me throughout the show and there was nothing there that screamed day 1. I'm sure as soon as they announce Retro's new game and EAD Toyko's game, which I think is safe to assume a 3D Mario, then I'll be getting ready to put an order in and you can guarantee that despite what happens and what they announce today, tomorrow, or next week, Nintendo's output will be just as good as it's always been and more than make the purchase worthy.... but if you don't like their games, then there probably won't be much to draw you in if you already own another machine.

[Hero-of-Time]

There was a definite sense of "seen it all before" for me throughout the show and there was nothing there that screamed day 1. I'm sure as soon as they announce Retro's new game and EAD Toyko's game, which I think is safe to assume a 3D Mario, then I'll be getting ready to put an order in and you can guarantee that despite what happens and what they announce today, tomorrow, or next week, Nintendo's output will be just as good as it's always been and more than make the purchase worthy.... but if you don't like their games, then there probably won't be much to draw you in if you already own another machine.

 

The problem is for me that I LOVE their games, hell i've been a Nintendo fan since the NES days ( showing my age ). I just wish that Nintendo would embrace online gaming like their competitors have. Just give us things that have been standard on the other consoles for years now and i'll be a happy chappy.

 

Ok, i'm starting to sound like a broken record now, i'll try and stop.

[dazzybee]

I know exactly what you mean though hero. We're probably similar ages, I have a spare room in my house which houses every single nintendo console and games and such. But I'm sick of just having their consoles as Nintendo machines with games, while the best I play, miss features that other games have and should be in there. Nintendo need desperately to catch up with the services other companies provide (they still might, nothings been announced) but ideally, they ARE all about the controllers, so I wouldn't mind playing as many games as possible on the controllers. Without that support it just becomes another Nintendo machine.

[Marcamillian]

Not sure if I'd call it a "success" but there are encouraging signs.

 

#1 - Third Party.

Say what you like about being ports of "current gen" games but the important thing for me is that the tone of games nintendo seem to be courting seems to be wider. The barrier of the Wii being a "kiddy" console might be broken down a little even if they arn't bleeding edge technology wise once new consoles are out.

 

#2 - Web strategy.

Hey remember 6 years ago. Remember friend codes? The Miiverse/social stuff they are doing (though we don't really have much info on it) seems like an entirely different company. Also... browser based Nintendo software (even if fits a twitter feed type thing) - alright they are playing catch up to where they should have been but - I trust nintendo to do something unique now they've got there and they seem to have embraced it pretty fully.

 

On a side note - I was really impressed with experimental nature of some of the WiiWare titles. They seem to be pushing hard on 3DS for quality downloadables too so I'm expecting it to continue with WiiU downloads too.

 

#3 - Gameplay opportunity

The Wii had a lot of shovelware (it was cheap to produce for and large user base with less experience picking out the dud games) BUT the controller made for some interesting experimentation (still love Pro Evo Wii despite its flaws). The integration of social stuff / RFID / Asymmetric multiplayer / 2 Screens / touch screen controller offer a lot of things for developers to play with and try new interesting different things.

 

Just a quick note on NintendoLand.

As with the MiiVerse "tile" thing showing games you don't have... this looks to be a strategy to build brand loyalty/familiarity in the casual's they courted last time round... attempting to up their attach rate.

 

If they've got their head screwed on it's a perfect opportunity to do free first party tie in games. New Metroid game coming out? WOW LOOK A NEW ATTRACTION JUST OPENED IN NINENDOLAND!

[Captain Falcon]

The problem is for me that I LOVE their games, hell i've been a Nintendo fan since the NES days ( showing my age ). I just wish that Nintendo would embrace online gaming like their competitors have. Just give us things that have been standard on the other consoles for years now and i'll be a happy chappy.

 

Ok, i'm starting to sound like a broken record now, i'll try and stop.

 

I just wrote a long-ass reply but I was veering so far into my own ramblings, I'd be embarassed to post it.

 

Surfice to say, I'm been gaming for just as long and as someone who has always had Nintendo's machine as my main console, ignorance has proved surprisingly blissful when it comes to online. I don't really do shooters or racing games, so that leaves Smash Bros. and Monster Hunter, as games I would miss not being able to play online.

 

But even if Nintendo had this great online infrastructure, unless the third parties are there supporting it with games that are exclusive or categorically better on the system, you aren't going to convince your HD owning console friends to migrate. Then you'll have this fantastic system with no one you care about to use it with.

 

The Wii has plenty of great single player games but they aren't convinving HD owners to buy the machine and I have difficulty believing it's simply a matter of graphics. It's about what games appeal to each demographic and the divide between "Nintendo gamers" and "non-Nintendo gamers" has never been so strong. I slapped those in speach marks because I believe most gamers are inherently Nintendo gamer because the strive for new, fresh and rich experiences is something they have always lead and I'm sure there are things in Mario games that influence eventhe most violent of shooters... it's just people aren't prepared to look that deeply.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Captain Falcon

[Hogge]

When is that showcase of the 3DS games?

And also, what do you consider the likelyhood of Nintendo showing more Wii U games?

 

The Wii has plenty of great single player games but they aren't convinving HD owners to buy the machine and I have difficulty believing it's simply a matter of graphics. It's about what games appeal to each demographic and the divide between "Nintendo gamers" and "non-Nintendo gamers" has never been so strong. I slapped those in speach marks because I believe most gamers are inherently Nintendo gamer because the strive for new, fresh and rich experiences is something they have always lead and I'm sure there are things in Mario games that influence eventhe most violent of shooters... it's just people aren't prepared to look that deeply.

 

I'm a Nintendo gamer and that's what I've been missing this generation. So we got two Mario platformers, fine.

But where's Starfox, F-Zero, Waverace, 1080, a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark? Mother? Excitebike? Why did we only get one Zelda ten minutes before the console died? (No, TP is a cheap and nasty Gamecube port and doesen't count)

Why didn't Nintendo talk with some developer to bring out an exclusive entry/remake of a popular franchise which usualy isn't on Nintendo consoles (like MGS: Twin Snakes).

[Dcubed]

The first time I've agreed with a Eurogamer article regarding anything Nintendo in a long time. It's spot on.

 

They had stuff to show, but it was buried underneath clumsy delivery. The 3rd party showing was pathetic and utterly uninteresting (Except for Rayman Legends, which was only announced as a Wii U exclusive AFTER the conference!) and games/announcements that should've been there were entirely absent (Retro's game, VC/Wiiware transfer details, ANYTHING to do with the eShop and online play etc)

 

The show was poorly planned, overly indulgent in terms of game design detail and lacked clarity. A complete missed opportunity.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Dcubed

[markderoos]

Seems a lot of people tend to forget Nintendo HAVE to focus a huge part of their presentation on the casual (I really don't like that term) crowd because they need them to jump on board with the Wii U like they did with the Wii. If they didn't enthuse/tease them, they would slowly move towards Kinect and Move, and to be honest: the rest of the Wii owners (Nintendo fans and Sports/Shooters fans) isn't enough to ensure a healthy future for Wii U. Even if Nintendo would've gone all out on extreme/mature games with their presentation it won't guarantee them the userbase they need to be successful. Just face it, the casual gamers were what made the Wii a financial bighitter and they will remain extremely vital to Nintendo in the future. Winning back experienced gamers isn't something that easy and I don't know if it will even ever happen at all. In all honesty, the so-called "mature" gamers have jumped ship from the moment the first playstation arrived. The cool kids will stay xbox and/or playstation fanboys and frankly, I don't want them aboard. Nintendo has a philosophy and Wii U and its games fit perfectly within that philosophy. If that isn't enough for you than I guess you should: 1. buy a playstation or xbox, or 2. buy one of those AND a Wii U Nintendo isn't for "cool" teenagers, it's for game-experience lovers.

[dazzybee]

Possibly, but NIntendo did say they realise they lost the core and will try and get them back and also said they will focus the first year or so on the core gamer. Secondly, what they showed for the "casual" isn't enough to get them to buy the Wii U in my opinion.

[madeinbeats]

Possibly, but NIntendo did say they realise they lost the core and will try and get them back and also said they will focus the first year or so on the core gamer. Secondly, what they showed for the "casual" isn't enough to get them to buy the Wii U in my opinion.

 

I think they did more than the other two to keep their share of that market. How much of that casual Wii market stay on board for next gen at all remains to be seen.

[Captain Falcon]

I'm a Nintendo gamer and that's what I've been missing this generation. So we got two Mario platformers, fine.

But where's Starfox, F-Zero, Waverace, 1080, a spiritual successor to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark? Mother? Excitebike? Why did we only get one Zelda ten minutes before the console died? (No, TP is a cheap and nasty Gamecube port and doesen't count)

 

The problem is, most of them games just don't shift that big numbers. Plus, there has to be a reason to justify the game.

 

Sin and Punishment filled the hole of Star Fox though frankly, Star Fox hasn't been Star Fox since the N64 and the chances are another installment would have been another take on the gameplay so I think we got the better end of the deal. PLus, Q Games have been pretty busy and I wouldn't have been surprised if Nintendo had approached them about a Wii Star Fox game only to be turned down.

 

F-Zero GX did not sell well. F-Zero on the GBA sold worse - I'm fairly sure they lost money on the last F-Zero game which never left Japan. And if the vast majority of the GC audience wouldn't touch an F-Zero game, I'm failry sure even less of the Wii's would have. Besides, motion controlled F-Zero is a crap idea waiting (hopefully indefinitely) to happen. Nintendo had no real online to push it forward in that way either. I'm glad they left it alone because I never saw it ending other than badly with the potential to kill the franchise for good.

 

1080, again, not a system seller and the minute they had Cammie Dunaway on stage at E3 with Shaun White demonstratring his Balance board compatable game, it was curtains. It does beg the question of what have NST been doing besides the Mario Vs Donkey games but that's beside the point.

 

Mother... you mean the franchise that never appeared in Europe full stop and had one game completely tank in America? This is another one of them franchises where if everyone who claimed they were a fan had actually bought the thing, they'd be coming out with the regularity of Zelda.

 

GoldenEye/Perfect Dark is nothing to do with Nintendo and the talent has long since left Rare. It's not genre that thrives in the Japanese sales charts or in fact are dreamt up in Japan (something to do with them more likely to suffer motion sickness) so Nintendo was never going to make it in house. I suspect they were hoping Red Steel would fill that particular segment but we all know what happened there. Maybe a new Timesplitters could have filled that void but then nobody approached FRD about a new Timesplitters game. Despitely lacking compared to their HD brothers in the visuals, the CoD games seem to get a fair bit of praise from these boards and I thoroughly enjoyed the GoldenEye remake.

 

They did the download ExciteBike game and there was ExciteTruck and then ExciteBots for Americans so it's not like they didn't touch the franchise in some way.

 

I can't justify every decision to release or not release a game but first, you have to consider the economics or releasing a title and take into account it's sales history. The thing that is so easy to forget is that we here, taking about games, are by far and away the minority of Nintendo's market. We account for so little that even if they pleased every one of us, it wouldn't be worth their trouble.

 

Why didn't Nintendo talk with some developer to bring out an exclusive entry/remake of a popular franchise which usualy isn't on Nintendo consoles (like MGS: Twin Snakes).

 

Well they got Monster Hunter Tri... I mean, it's only the biggest none Nintendo franchise in Japan right now. It shifted just over a million copies compared to the four million it shifts on the PSP with each title. Yes the PSP install base in bigger but only by 50%, not 400. Dragon Quest X, the franchises previously title holder, is on the way but these things take time. As for Twin Snakes... I think Nintendo would like to avoid commercial failures where possible.

 

The fact is that big exclusive games from third parties, whether paid for with Nintendo funds or not, just haven't shifted the numbers they have in the past because most of the gamers they are targeting don't use it (maybe they did at the start but not any more).

[dazzybee]

I think they did more than the other two to keep their share of that market. How much of that casual Wii market stay on board for next gen at all remains to be seen.

 

That's the thing, I don't think many of them will make the leap, hence why I feel they shouldn't have wasted so much time and the launch on them. MS and Sony have shit loads of games for the core gamers (I know the terms are bollocks but we have to differentiate them in some way) who will continue to buy games, always have and always will. Look at the sales figures of the HD titles, even average ones, look at Wii titles no first party, absolute gulf!

[Hogge]

The problem is, most of them games just don't shift that big numbers. Plus, there has to be a reason to justify the game.

 

Sin and Punishment filled the hole of Star Fox though frankly, Star Fox hasn't been Star Fox since the N64 and the chances are another installment would have been another take on the gameplay so I think we got the better end of the deal. PLus, Q Games have been pretty busy and I wouldn't have been surprised if Nintendo had approached them about a Wii Star Fox game only to be turned down.

 

F-Zero GX did not sell well. F-Zero on the GBA sold worse - I'm fairly sure they lost money on the last F-Zero game which never left Japan. And if the vast majority of the GC audience wouldn't touch an F-Zero game, I'm failry sure even less of the Wii's would have. Besides, motion controlled F-Zero is a crap idea waiting (hopefully indefinitely) to happen. Nintendo had no real online to push it forward in that way either. I'm glad they left it alone because I never saw it ending other than badly with the potential to kill the franchise for good.

 

1080, again, not a system seller and the minute they had Cammie Dunaway on stage at E3 with Shaun White demonstratring his Balance board compatable game, it was curtains. It does beg the question of what have NST been doing besides the Mario Vs Donkey games but that's beside the point.

 

Mother... you mean the franchise that never appeared in Europe full stop and had one game completely tank in America? This is another one of them franchises where if everyone who claimed they were a fan had actually bought the thing, they'd be coming out with the regularity of Zelda.

 

GoldenEye/Perfect Dark is nothing to do with Nintendo and the talent has long since left Rare. It's not genre that thrives in the Japanese sales charts or in fact are dreamt up in Japan (something to do with them more likely to suffer motion sickness) so Nintendo was never going to make it in house. I suspect they were hoping Red Steel would fill that particular segment but we all know what happened there. Maybe a new Timesplitters could have filled that void but then nobody approached FRD about a new Timesplitters game. Despitely lacking compared to their HD brothers in the visuals, the CoD games seem to get a fair bit of praise from these boards and I thoroughly enjoyed the GoldenEye remake.

 

They did the download ExciteBike game and there was ExciteTruck and then ExciteBots for Americans so it's not like they didn't touch the franchise in some way.

 

I can't justify every decision to release or not release a game but first, you have to consider the economics or releasing a title and take into account it's sales history. The thing that is so easy to forget is that we here, taking about games, are by far and away the minority of Nintendo's market. We account for so little that even if they pleased every one of us, it wouldn't be worth their trouble.

 

 

 

Well they got Monster Hunter Tri... I mean, it's only the biggest none Nintendo franchise in Japan right now. It shifted just over a million copies compared to the four million it shifts on the PSP with each title. Yes the PSP install base in bigger but only by 50%, not 400. Dragon Quest X, the franchises previously title holder, is on the way but these things take time. As for Twin Snakes... I think Nintendo would like to avoid commercial failures where possible.

 

The fact is that big exclusive games from third parties, whether paid for with Nintendo funds or not, just haven't shifted the numbers they have in the past because most of the gamers they are targeting don't use it (maybe they did at the start but not any more).

All that you said is true.

 

Except for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, where Nintendo in fact had a lot to say. In fact, Nintendo were the ones whom bought the Bond license and then gave it to Rare and to my recolection, Nintendo were the ones whom decided that the team needed to be replaced so that Perfect Dark would come out before Nintendo killed off the N64.

 

But the result is that Nintendo have turned up with bupcus. They have shown their new console for a second time, this time not talking about the consoles features, because they wanted to talk as much as possible about games. And then they showed no games. I just know about four games I guess I could potentially consider buying: ZombiU, Pikmin, Mass Effect 3 and Aliens.

Mass Effect 3 is already out, ZombiU was shown the day before and Aliens was shown a full YEAR earlier. And Pikmin was hinted at long in advance.

 

Nintendo either need to announce a whole bunch of exclusive core games, or the Wii U is the first Nintendo console since the Game Boy Advance that I won't buy. True story!

 

I agree with everything said here:

Edited June 6, 2012 by Hogge

[Captain Falcon]

All that you said is true.

 

Except for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, where Nintendo in fact had a lot to say. In fact, Nintendo were the ones whom bought the Bond license and then gave it to Rare and to my recolection, Nintendo were the ones whom decided that the team needed to be replaced so that Perfect Dark would come out before Nintendo killed off the N64.

 

Nintendo made have owned the licence but that has nothing to do with the game being good now does it - that's thanks to level design and gameplay ideas that resided in the talented folks at Rare. I'm sure Nintendo may have offered some guidance but it's a genre they had never touched and I'd imagine imput would have been limited to general ideas about what makes games fun rather than this is how to make a killer FPS.

 

I wasn't aware of any team movement concerning Perfect Dark. Yes, five influencial figures left during it's development but I think the rest of team remained. The fact is that the core GoldenEye team was tiny to begin with. As soon as they left, there were very few left from the original team.

 

 

As for the Wii U, I would like to think we are all smart enough than to write this thing off right now based on an E3 conference that was all about the next 6 months rather than the next 12 like the other companies' were.

 

Just out of interest, and this goes out to everyone, not just you Hogge, but how many games do people typically buy at launch? Seriously, as stupid as this question may seem, but if Nintendo had their entire roster of franchises ready to go on day one (so 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Paper Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Smash Bros, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Kirby, F-Zero, Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Sin and Punishment, Punchout!! etc), how many of them would you actually buy? And that's before we talk about 3rd party games.

 

We know a good chunk of these games are coming and have probably been in some stage of development for some time.

 

Did Nintendo drop the ball at E3, maybe. But then I don't think we were ever attemping to play the same game with it. In their eyes the game was about dropping it. I shouldn't get angry because they did though. What I should be doing is appreciating why they did what they did, and understand it. /OddlyPhrasedMetaphor

[dazzybee]

But it;'s not that simple. That's the defence for Nintendo, they're never going to realise Fzero, Zelda, mario, star fox on day one!!!

 

WHO IS ASKING FOR THIS?!?!?!! We're just saying Pikmin isn't enough as the only game we've seen into the future. That is all. A video of a game coming out next year would be a MASSIVE improvement.

[david.dakota]

I don't think they needed a sizzle real showing the next 12 months games, Nintendo Direct is a far more useful tool. But they needed one exclusive key title, something really pique the ear of the 'core' gamer. Something at launch with that would attract that type of gamer, something pedigree.

[Grazza]

Not a Day 1 for me.

 

I genuinely don't understand what would make anyone buy it on Day 1, unless you're a huge Pikmin fan (in which case fair enough). Then again, I don't know why people bought the Wii when it was released as it didn't have Mario Galaxy or Metroid Prime 3. Sadly, I realise a lot of people wanted Twilight Princess, which Nintendo sneakily held back a week on GameCube.

 

I bought the 3DS on Day 1 because it's fantastic tech and I'd seen 5-10 games I really wanted. But consider this: if they can't even show the equivalent of Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3 or OOT 3D, how long is it going to take before something like that is actually on the shelves? Only then will I buy a Wii U.