Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

[The Peeps]

We always expected it to end at Earth... though less so when they got to the first Earth... which leads to a fair bit of confusion when you first see our Earth appear at the end. The idea of then placing it 150,00 years ago (think that's what it was) was much better than having them arrive in modern times like the original show or in a futuristic Earth. It was also something very unexpected that I don't think anyone considered as a possibility. And it allows for one of the shows basic themes to follow through... that "all of this has happened before and will happen again."

 

Yeah I loved that aspect of the ending. I thought the ending was great.

 

Still no idea what the hell Starbuck was

 

[dan-likes-trees]

I concur. I recall thinking the ending was pretty decent. I think it's probably more irritating as an ending for people who have watched the entire show on TV. I think boxsetted then the resolutions are less unsatisfying. Ie,

 

The whole Starbuck angel / whatever thing. Never had a problem with it myself, but it seems like people

 

 

Or just, the more casual viewer isn't as bothered. All the critics seemed to love it, but on say io9 everyone was clubbing together is some sort of Ron Moore hate club.

 

Who incidentally is doing a new show, 'like a grown up Harry Potter' which should be awesome.

 

But yeah. My friend is watching through bsg at the moment so it's good to have chats with him about it. Such a very good show.

[Mokong]

Yeah I loved that aspect of the ending. I thought the ending was great.

 

Still no idea what the hell Starbuck was

 

Yeah that's the only thing they left kinda open. Though I think the most "logical" answer would be she was an angel of God sent to help guide them. Similar in a way to "Head 6" and "Head Baltar" but in a more direct way and obviously under the belief that she was the real Starbuck... or she was the actual "ghost" of Starbuck sent back by God.

 

While I would have liked a clean cut answer I reckon had they tried to explain it, it likely would have looked silly/worse... afterall what were they to do.. have god appear and explain it? I guess they could have had her invovled in the conversation with Head 6 and Baltar at the end in the "modern times"?

 

[Sméagol]

I thought the ending was great, but not perfect.

Story-wise, it was a satisfying conclusion to an epic journey. I only have a small nitpick with its execution.

It's just a bit of a shame to hear that they only figured out how to implement the opera prophecy not long before they started production on the actual episode, especially when they led you to believe they already had the basic storyline down from the start..

 

 

I don't think there's an "official" explanation for her, but my view is that she's become something similar to the other angels / messengers (that's Six and Baltar, and I don't recall myself but the wiki says there are even more alluded to).

 

[Mokong]

 

But yeah. My friend is watching through bsg at the moment so it's good to have chats with him about it. Such a very good show.

 

I've got a cousin who I want to try and get to watch BSG, but he refuses... I think he's confusing it with Stargate which I know he hates, but he's very set in his ways. He's not much into "Space" shows and doesn't like aliens... can't seem to convince him though that there are no "aliens" in this. If I could just get him to watch the mini-series I know he would like it and want to carry through and I know he'd love the ending if he got that far.

 

I think next time he comes visit I'm just gonna strap him to a chair and force him to watch all 3 hours of the mini series

[dan-likes-trees]

I've got a cousin who I want to try and get to watch BSG, but he refuses... I think he's confusing it with Stargate which I know he hates, but he's very set in his ways. He's not much into "Space" shows and doesn't like aliens... can't seem to convince him though that there are no "aliens" in this. If I could just get him to watch the mini-series I know he would like it and want to carry through and I know he'd love the ending if he got that far.

 

I think next time he comes visit I'm just gonna strap him to a chair and force him to watch all 3 hours of the mini series

 

Haha yes, I basically had to do that for the couple of friends I've convinced to watch it.

 

I do wonder just how successful this show could have been if it didn't have a fucking awful name!! I don't think they could possibly have picked a name that sounds any less appealing to the mainstream...

[Magnus]

I don't know where the "Universally" comes from, most of the people I know who watch the show think the ending was great. I only started reading/hearing negetive reactions to the ending over a year after it aired. The day after it aired I only remember reading praise online.

I checked IMDb the day after the finale aired, and there were a lot of people on there that weren't pleased with the it. Like Oxigen_Waste, I also have the impression that it's generally considered a somewhat disappointing ending to a great series.

 

I liked the series finale overall, but there were some things that bothered me.

 

They'd spent two seasons or something foreshadowing that something was going to happen with Baltar, Number Six and the Cylon/human child, and then the big revelation is... that they pick her up and hold her when she's scared. That's it. I read that Ron Moore was originally planning on killing Helo and Athena, but decided to give them a happy ending instead. But as much as I liked those characters, I was very disappointed by them going "yeah, this scene right here where they're holding the child for thirty seconds is what we've been hinting at for so long".

 

And, like most people, I thought the whole deus ex machina with Starbuck and the music that led them to Earth was pretty stupid. It's things like that that make it so obvious that they had no idea where they were going with certain plots. They may as well just have had God himself descend from the heavens and set everything right.

 

The reveal at the end that the show took place in the past didn't really do anything for me. Didn't love it or hate it. I do think the epilogue or whatever was unnecessary, though, as the scene before that was so perfect.

 

[The Peeps]

They'd spent two seasons or something foreshadowing that something was going to happen with Baltar, Number Six and the Cylon/human child, and then the big revelation is... that they pick her up and hold her when she's scared. That's it.

 

I liked that though. It goes along with the whole prejudice thing and makes them seem really untrustworthy and suspicious, then afterwards you see that it was just interpreted wrong.

[Mokong]

I thought the ending was great, but not perfect.

Story-wise, it was a satisfying conclusion to an epic journey. I only have a small nitpick with its execution.

It's just a bit of a shame to hear that they only figured out how to implement the opera prophecy not long before they started production on the actual episode, especially when they led you to believe they already had the basic storyline down from the start..

 

 

I thought they had that worked out when they came up with the visions? Not from reading anything just how it played out. Thought how they made Galactica the Opera house was genius that the visions came through that Galactica was the actual Opera house... which works on our own real world level too as it was the "stage" we viewed the show on

 

I don't think there's an "official" explanation for her, but my view is that she's become something similar to the other angels / messengers (that's Six and Baltar, and I don't recall myself but the wiki says there are even more alluded to).

 

The other angels are the ones that appeared to "The Final Five" before they left the first Earth. Think it was Anders that said that they had all seen visions warning them of Earths impending doom and that is when they re-invented Resurrection and when to try find the 12 Colonies in hopes of stopping them being destroyed by their own Cylons if they made any. But by the time they got there Humans and Cylon were already at war.

 

I do find it funny however that a "race" that started out as Cylons on Kobol, rebelled against their human creators, would then effectively become "human" to a degree... create their own Cylons only to mistreat them and be destoryed by them in turn... is that irony?

 

Human only lead to destruction, Cylon only didn't work either. As they say maybe a combination of the two will. I guess we'll find out when we start making our own Cylons, haha

 

 

Haha yes, I basically had to do that for the couple of friends I've convinced to watch it.

 

I do wonder just how successful this show could have been if it didn't have a fucking awful name!! I don't think they could possibly have picked a name that sounds any less appealing to the mainstream...

 

well they were kinda stuck with the name from the original show afterall. Don't think a name change would have been possible. The name never bothered me... but then again I know what you mean by mainstream... damned mainstream

[dan-likes-trees]

 

And, like most people, I thought the whole deus ex machina with Starbuck and the music that led them to Earth was pretty stupid. It's things like that that make it so obvious that they had no idea where they were going with certain plots. They may as well just have had God himself descend from the heavens and set everything right.

 

 

Dunno, I was pretty happy with that part. I mean, pretty illogical but I felt it worked, in a weird way. Amusingly, the original dialogue in the script was apparently:

 

Whoever: Where did you take us?

Starbuck: Somewhere along the watchtower

 

Which the actress apparently refused to say. Which I'm quite glad of haha...

[Magnus]

Dunno, I was pretty happy with that part. I mean, pretty illogical but I felt it worked, in a weird way.

It kind of worked, but... eh. I guess it doesn't feel too out of place thematically, but "a wizard did it" is too much of a cop-out for my liking.

 

I liked that though. It goes along with the whole prejudice thing and makes them seem really untrustworthy and suspicious, then afterwards you see that it was just interpreted wrong.

Sure, but it's so obvious that they either had no idea what they were actually foreshadowing or changed their minds somewhere along the way. You don't build something up like that for so long only for it to result in nothing. That's terrible writing.

 

I don't mind them making you distrust the characters and then turning your expectations on their head, though. That could have worked great if they'd manage to pull it off in a way that wasn't completely disappointing.

[The Peeps]

I suppose being a fan of Lost has desensitized me to that kind of thing

[Magnus]

I suppose being a fan of Lost has desensitized me to that kind of thing

Haha, don't get me started on the Lost finale. :p

 

To be fair, I loved both the Lost and Battlestar Galactica finales when I watched them. They were definitely emotionally satisfying. It's just when I think back at them now - when my mind isn't clouded by emotions - that I can sort of see why some people disliked them so much.

[Cube]

And, like most people, I thought the whole deus ex machina with Starbuck and the music that led them to Earth was pretty stupid. It's things like that that make it so obvious that they had no idea where they were going with certain plots. They may as well just have had God himself descend from the heavens and set everything right.

 

A lot of effort went into the coordinates.

 

http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1760

 

Check out the section: Generating Kara’s Coordinates

 

 

That is why I love Bear McCreary.

[chairdriver]

I liked how it was a Deus Ex Machina, considering the whole point of the show is to present spirituality (specifically Christianity) in a non-shit way. Removing chaff like Jesus, and Israel and whatnot. Just deal with the fact God is great.

[dan-likes-trees]

A lot of effort went into the coordinates.

 

http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1760

 

Check out the section: Generating Kara’s Coordinates

 

 

That is why I love Bear McCreary.

 

That's awesome.

[chairdriver]

Another thing I'm confused about:

 

The way I understood it was that they found the 13th Colony, where the Cylons were from, which was the fabled Earth. It was shit etc. And then Starbuck, being great / God, led them to our planet, which was actually stunning to live on, so them named it Earth to honour the memory of everyone who died in its name etc etc.

 

But then, why, when they find the Tomb Of Athena, are they shown the constellations as you'd see them from EarthII? I thought the point of the tomb was to lead them to the 13th Colony?

 

Unless there's some subtle form of time/dimensional travel or something I'm missing?

 

[Cube]

Another thing I'm confused about:

 

The way I understood it was that they found the 13th Colony, where the Cylons were from, which was the fabled Earth. It was shit etc. And then Starbuck, being great / God, led them to our planet, which was actually stunning to live on, so them named it Earth to honour the memory of everyone who died in its name etc etc.

 

But then, why, when they find the Tomb Of Athena, are they shown the constellations as you'd see them from EarthII? I thought the point of the tomb was to lead them to the 13th Colony?

 

Unless there's some subtle form of time/dimensional travel or something I'm missing?

 

The Tomb of Athena DID lead them to Cylon Earth - they even mention that the constellations match when they arrived there.

 

Which means that Our Earth is relatively close (probably about 40-60 light years) to Cylon Earth. Simple as that.

 

[Mokong]

Another thing I'm confused about:

 

The way I understood it was that they found the 13th Colony, where the Cylons were from, which was the fabled Earth. It was shit etc. And then Starbuck, being great / God, led them to our planet, which was actually stunning to live on, so them named it Earth to honour the memory of everyone who died in its name etc etc.

 

But then, why, when they find the Tomb Of Athena, are they shown the constellations as you'd see them from EarthII? I thought the point of the tomb was to lead them to the 13th Colony?

 

Unless there's some subtle form of time/dimensional travel or something I'm missing?

 

I asked the same question when the final ep forst aired. And it was pointed out to me that while we can see the same constelations from here on Earth2, that you can't see all 12 in the sky at the same time. Where as on Earth1 as shown in the Tomb of Athena you could veiw all 12 at the same time.

 

I think that reasoning solves that issue. And it's really cool to think that all the way back to the begining of season 2 we were actually given a hint that the Earth they were looking for was not our Earth at all but nobody ever 2nd guessed about how all 12 constellations could be seen from Earth at the one time.

 

 

Also just finished another marathon, started with Razor then watched Downloaded and both parts of Lay Your Burdens Down to finish off season 2.

 

One thing I did notice and only cop right now with downloaded though..

 

When Doc Cottle fakes the death of Hera, and then we get the scene with Baltar and Head Six and Six is giving out to him about having failed in his mission to protect the first of Gods new generation. If she was an Angel of God... shouldn't she have known what Adama and Roslin did?

 

Or maybe God just didn't tell her?

 

Also though with Downloaded, just remembered how awesome it was to see Head Baltar for the first time. When that happens it was so unexpected cuz up untill that point, even though Baltar had a head scan and found no chip in his head, you still thought Head Six was connected to the Cylons. But when Head Baltar appears then you start to wonder what the hell is going on with this visions? You thought you knew how and why a Six was appearing to Baltar but the same reasoning cannot work the other way round.

 

 

Might start the first ep of season 3 before bed, just taking a break for a few mins first, haha.

 

Oh I also did the Battlestar Career Assetment Quiz that was on the extras to the final disc for season 2. Did it 3 times, a different set of questions each time and every time it told me I'm fit to be the XO

Edited March 20, 2011 by Mokong

[The Peeps]

Oh I also did the Battlestar Career Assetment Quiz that was on the extras to the final disc for season 2. Did it 3 times, a different set of questions each time and every time it told me I'm fit to be the XO

 

That just means you're a racist drunk

[Cube]

I just finished it all again. The music in the final battle is just glorious, and it all looked spectacular in HD.

[Mokong]

Just finsihed watching season 3 ep "Passage"... wish that was one of the eps to get an extended edition in the boxset... i get the feeling there could have been a few more scenes with Kat in it.

 

Man going through that ep again is a hard one. When Kat gets off the raptor after bringing back that last ship is one hell of a moment. Everyone clapping, Kat raising her arms but you know she's had too much radiation exposure you know she's a dead girl walking.

 

Was a good heroic way to kill her off though sometimes I do think she deserved something better like in an epic battle somehow.

 

Or maybe even better... not kill her at all. I loved seeing her go head to head with Starbuck

 

[chairdriver]

Scar and The Passage are the two best episodes IMO. Not because they are both about Kat, but because they are the two episodes when the show stops and says "Ok, so what's actually going on here? People are dying. Are people living?". The two best. I cried so many tears at both.

[Mokong]

I actually find Scar to be one of the few eps (maybe the only) that felt a little filler to me... though admitidly, on this current re-viewing of the show, I actually enjoyed Scar a little more than usual

 

Today I just watched from "A Day in the Life" all the way to the end of season 3 with Crossroads Part 2.

 

Firstly wanna start with Maelstrom

 

We talked a few days ago about deaths in the show... but nobody mentioned Starbucks?

 

What did ye think when ye first saw that ep? Did you think she'd be back?

 

I remember first time I saw it, I thought she was just gonna come to some sort of revelation that might match something in the scrolls or something. When her Viper blew up I was like... NO WAY.... how could they kill off Starbuck????

 

Thought if she did come back, surely she'd be one of the final five

 

 

Now up to Crossroads.... jesus certainly some of the best 2 hours(ish) of TV film... espeically the last 10 - 15mins or so.

 

First Baltars trail, I thought that was gonna be it for him, was certain there was no way in hell he was getting out of this one alive. I was certain he'd be airlocked and I was kinda looking forward to it.

 

But then Apollo gives that epic and emotional 6 - 7 mins long speech, hell he even swayed me to believing Baltar should be found Not Guilty.

 

Also after the trail, when Baltar leaves his cell and is walking alone in the hallways not knowing what to do, I actually felt sorry for him first time I saw it... and still did just now. Amazing how I could have gone from wanting to see him executed to feeling sad for him.

 

And of course "the music", first time I saw that, jesus was it confusing. All the signs were there that they were gonna be 4 of the 5 but when I first saw it, it never clicked. Not till that moment in part 2 when the four of them gather together and it clicks with the characters did it click with me. And my reaction was the exact same as theirs "woah, hold on a minute... this...is..not real????"

 

The choices for who they made the final 5 seemed so shocking and unexpected, especially with Tigh, my Gods nobody could have seen that coming. Hell Tigh, the Chief and Anders were the bloody leaders of the rebels on New Caprica for Gods sake.

 

I think when I mention here sometimes how I'd like to get some cousins into watching this show, it's mostly to see their reaction to this episode, haha. And of course you can't just skip to this ep as then the revelation of the four holds no real meaning or shock value without having seen what they all went through in every ep up to that.

 

And then if that wasn't enough, a set up for a potential epic battle, Apollo jumps back into a Viper, All Along The Watch Tower kicks in again, and the little game of cat and mouse with the unknown ship which turns out to be Starbuck back from the grave.

 

I was certain at that point that she was the 5th

 

 

IT'S IN THE FRAKKING SHIP!!!!

	Audio

[The Peeps]

I knew they hadn't killed off Starbuck even when we saw that her viper had exploded. When the final 5 were introduced I thought for sure she'd be the 5th (which was probably what the writers wanted us to think) but once that was debunked I had absolutely no idea who/what she was.