Debug Mode Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Uh ohhh Famed hacker George "GeoHot" Hotz, who among other things helped crack the iPhone, reckons he's found what are essentially the keys to the PlayStation 3. And has posted them online for the world to see. While a group claimed last week that they'd done much the same thing, and were in the process of releasing tools to allow people to install Linux on their system, GeoHot has gone a step further and simply published the PS3's "root key". The root key is a signature of sorts, that lets the PS3 know that the program that's about to run on the console is a legitimate piece of software. If it's now out there, then once people start messing around with it, they'll be able to whip up anything - be that custom software or pirated games - and trick the console into thinking it's OK to load. Meanwhile, the team from last week's news - fail0verflow - have as promised released some "PS3 development tools" for hackers to mess around with. If the homebrew scene is your scene, and you'd like to take a look at what the PS3 can do without Sony calling the shots, you can find those here. Basically, there is no longer any need for custom firmware on the devices or flashing the PS3 in order to run a different operating system to run unsigned code. These keys when patched on EBOOTS will be executable on ANY firmware. No update can fix this. The need for custom firmware is dead. Piracy and homebrew will be runnable on official firmware on any PSP (including the unhackable 3000 and Go units) and any PS3. (Does the PS3 use Eboot files? I only have a PSP. Regardless, it's still fucked) I imagine there is going to be some serious crisis talks at Sony this week.
S.C.G Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Happy New Year Sony! In all seriousness though, yes this may be bad but is it really gonna affect Sony that much? Even if I knew there was a way that I could run pirated games on my PS3 with little hassle, I still wouldn't do it and so would continue to buy retail games to support the industry and I'm sure that the majority of PS3 owners feel the same way no? Surely the only thing that this would do - if it did have a huge impact on sales - is fast-forward the release of the PS4... but really, can anyone see that happening realistically when the PS3 still has many years left in it, as does the Xbox 360. This could change things but personally, I just can't see it happening... yet.
Daft Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Who needs to pirate games when you can just rent them? Seriously. Also, homebrew? Yawn. Buy a cheap computer and shove it under your TV. Way more useful.
Goafer Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 In all seriousness though, yes this may be bad but is it really gonna affect Sony that much? Even if I knew there was a way that I could run pirated games on my PS3 with little hassle, I still wouldn't do it and so would continue to buy retail games to support the industry and I'm sure that the majority of PS3 owners feel the same way no? Clearly, you've never met a Dreamcast or original Xbox owner. They were the easiest consoles to run pirated software on. The Dreamcast ran copied games straight from the box and pirated games on the Xbox actually ran better if you installed them to the hard drive (something retail games didn't support). As a result, piracy on those two consoles was pretty much everywhere. But on the other hand, so was homebrew, which was fantastic. IIRC, the homebrew scene on the Xbox was a major influence on Microsofts decision to have indie games on the XBL store. Hopefully this means more homebrew stuff on the PS3. I love homebrew.
S.C.G Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Clearly, you've never met a Dreamcast or original Xbox owner. I have and I am indeed myself one, I first got to play Ikaruga from a Dreamcast 'backup' disc... I've since actually bought the game though, twice... but at the time the game was difficult/expensive to get. I thought this situation with the PS3 was somehow different to that of the DC, if not though then I guess it will probably mean an increase in piracy though I won't be partaking in it as I literally don't buy that many PS3 games in the first place, homebrew however with no mods necessary does interest me.
Goafer Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 I have and I am indeed myself one, I first got to play Ikaruga from a Dreamcast 'backup' disc... I've since actually bought the game though, twice... but at the time the game was difficult/expensive to get. I thought this situation with the PS3 was somehow different to that of the DC, if not though then I guess it will probably mean an increase in piracy though I won't be partaking in it as I literally don't buy that many PS3 games in the first place, homebrew however with no mods necessary does interest me. Yeah, I think I'm in the same boat. Piracy doesn't bother me nowadays because I can afford games and I don't really play that many anyway. Homebrew interests me though.
Daft Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 The only bright side is the amusing idea that it won't be long until Kinect runs on the PS3.
Debug Mode Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 Who needs to pirate games when you can just rent them? Seriously. Also, homebrew? Yawn. Buy a cheap computer and shove it under your TV. Way more useful. But that isn't part of the hackers hobby. It's been pretty much a tradition for hackers to find some way of putting linux onto a console. Sony took the brave stance of including the 'Other OS' feature with the original PS3. Then they decided not to include it with Slim. Fair enough. Then they forced an update on original PS3 owners removing the 'Other OS' feature. So, they want their Linux PS3 back. Which is damn fair enough. It's absolutely ludicrous that Sony removed a feature that was advertised clearly on the box. Yeah maybe they didn't like how close some users were getting to some vital code which may have hurt business, but no other companies can get away with it. It's like a toaster deciding it doesn't want to toast 4 slices any more, it wants to toast 2 instead because you've been abusing the other slots to put waffles in it so you should buy a waffle toaster. tl;dr: Don't piss off hackers. Just give them a job.
Pit-Jr Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Also, homebrew? Yawn. Buy a cheap computer and shove it under your TV. Way more useful. Stop being so logical!
Daft Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 tl;dr: Don't piss off hackers. Just give them a job. They want their Linux back? To do this they fully opened the system for anyone to pirate games? (Which they will considering how easy this JailBreak is to implement.) Beyond access to the Cell why would anyone want Linux on their PS3? If Linux was so important surely it would have been easier, saved way more time, to not bother updating the FW the first time round and buying another PS3. The amount of effort it took to hack the PS3 easily out weighs the option of just buying a new PS3. If it wasn't for the Cell, why not just buy a cheap desktop? The Linux excuse is just utterly gitless. Guns don't kill people, people do. Great PS3 is now fully compromised because some twats wanted their Linux back. PSN will no doubt be compromised and cheaters will abound.
Aimless Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 So, they want their Linux PS3 back. Which is damn fair enough. It's absolutely ludicrous that Sony removed a feature that was advertised clearly on the box. Yeah maybe they didn't like how close some users were getting to some vital code which may have hurt business, but no other companies can get away with it. It's like a toaster deciding it doesn't want to toast 4 slices any more, it wants to toast 2 instead because you've been abusing the other slots to put waffles in it so you should buy a waffle toaster. Stop playing into the faux nobility of this. Sony included OtherOS as something of an olive branch to homebrew developers, they removed it from the redesign to cut down on costs — the entire point of the new hardware — and only retroactively disabled it in previous machines because certain self-entitled people decided the platform wasn't open enough. If the OtherOS option had never existed something like this would most likely have happened anyway, the justification would simply have been different. Probably something along the lines of, "They should have let us run Linux on it in the first place." There is nothing noble in opening a platform to piracy. And I have no animosity towards homebrew, if people could do that in their own home in isolation, sharing programmes with a select group then who cares? But the moment you open the doors to piracy is the second you start hurting the company putting out the console — who are not "the man" out to keep people down, they're a distributor of consumer products — you hurt the developers putting games out on that console, you hurt the gamers who enjoy playing games on that console and hacks like this could well lead to PSN being rife with a new wave of hackers, cheaters and general lowlifes. So thanks a lot, hackers. You've made life worse for regular consumers and developers for the sake of a challenge. Well done for being so responsible.
Debug Mode Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) The people who developed the initial hack of this that did the presentation have a history of doing the event each year for the sole purpose of being able to sign their own open code on closed systems such as the PS3. It's a shame I'll agree that it will enable piracy, but it's up to the end user. I won't be, I never have, but fuck if I own the system I want to be able to do all the things I want with it. I owned an R4 for my DS, never pirated, I wanted my game collection with me wherever I took my DS and a backup to my iPod if it's battery fell short. My PSP has been blown wide open to simply be able to emulate all the old Mega Drive and SNES games I had. Piracy is always a problem. But jeez guys, how I get slammed for promoting this so called 'faux nobility' is just ignorant as fuck. They got rid of an advertised feature of the original PS3 but managed to get off easily due to some bullshit fine print. These guys are well justified, it's a hobby, it's legal thanks to certain EU laws promoting free use of a device and they got fucked over by Sony. BUT, I did forget to include this in my previous post, this group is not affiliated with GeoHotz who released the keys. They may have gone with a different method of enabling Linux rather than publish the root keys, but it's highly unlikely as it is a key method to allowing unsigned code on the system. Let me re-iterate this further. I am not promoting piracy. I am promoting the movement to more open systems. Companies removing advertised features as they see fit on units already using the applications is just absolutely appalling. Edited January 3, 2011 by Debug Mode
Pit-Jr Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 I find the word ''movement'' hilarious there. Sony released a blu-ray/movie/music/internet device to the public and managed to cut the price in half. They must be stopped!
Aimless Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) It's a shame I'll agree that it will enable piracy, but it's up to the end user. That's pure buck passing. It's like me copying keys for an entire street of houses, leaving them in their respective locks and then saying, "Well, if anything gets stolen I don't condone it!" Clearly anyone involved in hacking isn't an idiot. They know full well what they're enabling and the implications of doing so. They had a choice, thus they are accountable. As for the desire to see the PS3 as an open platform, do you really think this is the way to go about things? It was already the most open platform on the market, but then people started abusing it like the petulant, self-entitled children they are. Do you think the PS4 will have an OtherOS option after this? Hell, will it even allow people to use off-the-shelf HDDs or standardised USB input devices? If you keep breaking into the liquor cabinet that doesn't encourage me to give you a key, it makes me want to lock things up tighter than ever before. Edited January 3, 2011 by Aimless Typo
ididntdoit Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 That's pure buck passing. It's like me copying keys for an entire street of houses, leaving them in their respective locks and then saying, "Well, if anything get's stolen I don't condone it!" Clearly anyone involved in hacking isn't an idiot. They know full well what they're enabling and the implications of doing so. They had a choice, thus they are accountable. As for the desire to see the PS3 as an open platform, do you really think this is the way to go about things? It was already the most open platform on the market, but then people started abusing it like the petulant, self-entitled children they are. Do you think the PS4 will have an OtherOS option after this? Hell, will it even allow people to use off-the-shelf HDDs or standardised USB input devices? If you keep breaking into the liquor cabinet that doesn't encourage me to give you a key, it makes me want to lock things up tighter than ever before. 1. its not like it ultimately effects you. 2. stop being a prissy bitch.
Aimless Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 When that's the quality of argument I face rebuttals can go unwritten.
dwarf Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Oh dear. I think now would be as good a time as any to point out that in that context it's 'affects', not 'effects'. Also, that's a fairly bold thing to enter with as a new member. Or should I say troll, as the name would suggest? Either way I can't see us getting on. --- As for my take on things - I don't see it as a big issue. Pretty much every console has been hacked, and bracketing myself into being one of those average Joe consumers, it'll likely mean little difference for me. However, I'd be inclined to say that Sony had the right to remove the OtherOS thing, did anything of interest ever come of it anyway? It's their console, and I think they're justified to be limiting who it's made available to. Not sure why anyone would get in a fuss over the fact that it was a feature advertised on the box, when they almost certainly paid no attention to it. Edited January 3, 2011 by dwarf
Emasher Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 The problem with removing the Other OS feature was that it was advertised as a feature of the console. Its not really a bid deal though, as it was used regularly by less than 1% of PS3 owners. While I dislike the idea that people are now going to be able to pirate PS3 games (Which will hurt the developers), what really annoys me is the fact that people are now going to be able to cheat on PSN games. Hopefully Sony will be able to keep on top of this. All games really need to be patched with a system to vote to kick players though, and PSN needs a better reporting system.
dwarf Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Is there potential for mega haxing in online games over PSN? That would annoy me, because I've experienced very few cases thus far.
Debug Mode Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 I find the word ''movement'' hilarious there. Sony released a blu-ray/movie/music/internet device to the public and managed to cut the price in half. They must be stopped! I see little to no contribution here. The PS3 is admittedly a fantastic device considering it's price, but here in the European Union we have laws regarding electronic devices that you have paid for being used for what ever you wish as long as it's within the law. Some people follow this, some people in the PS3's case will use it for piracy. Which is a shame, but it was bound to happen as some one pointed out earlier. But to find the word 'movement' as hilarious, how about looking at Sony's own marketing slogan for the PS3. "It only does every thing", yet removing features. It's a valid belief. You may or not be one, but it's sounds incredibly fanboyish when you mock the use of a word yet continue to post some what of an advertisement =P However, I'd be inclined to say that Sony had the right to remove the OtherOS thing, did anything of interest ever come of it anyway? It's their console, and I think they're justified to be limiting who it's made available to. Not sure why anyone would get in a fuss over the fact that it was a feature advertised on the box, when they almost certainly paid no attention to it. But here is the problem. If you pay for the device, it's YOUR console. The fact they removed it from the PS3 slim has been recognised as the community as 'fair enough', despite the fact some will proceed to hack for the challenge. The problem was the surging activity in the hacking community when the support was removed via a firmware update on the PS3 fat. Can you not imagine your anger if you bought a device and one of your beloved features that was in the sort of niche appeal category gets removed via a firmware update with no notification or choice? That's pure buck passing. It's like me copying keys for an entire street of houses, leaving them in their respective locks and then saying, "Well, if anything gets stolen I don't condone it!" Clearly anyone involved in hacking isn't an idiot. They know full well what they're enabling and the implications of doing so. They had a choice, thus they are accountable. As for the desire to see the PS3 as an open platform, do you really think this is the way to go about things? It was already the most open platform on the market, but then people started abusing it like the petulant, self-entitled children they are. Do you think the PS4 will have an OtherOS option after this? Hell, will it even allow people to use off-the-shelf HDDs or standardised USB input devices? If you keep breaking into the liquor cabinet that doesn't encourage me to give you a key, it makes me want to lock things up tighter than ever before. Look, you put up a good argument. I do agree that this GeoHotz guy has posed a seriously problem with the sheer bluntness of putting all the root keys available to any one. But your analogy just doesn't work. People are entitled to use their devices how they see fit and run their own unsigned code (Well, within the EU that is. The US operates a law where hardware is sort of licensed akin to software laws) I do agree that the potential for piracy is alarming now due to this revelation. I did see a GT5 iso being distributed through the usual websites patched with the root key enabling it to be executed on official firmware. Although it's a side effect, the hackers do what they do. They've opened up the system and to be blunt, you can't control how open in a situation like this. It's either open or closed. So now I can use my replacement PSP-3000 to do stuff my old PSP used to be able to. I'm happy.
Emasher Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Yes. Theoretically you can run any unlicensed software on the PS3 now, and that includes software used to cheat in games. I don't think such software exists yet for the PS3, but it probably will come eventually.
Debug Mode Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 The problem with removing the Other OS feature was that it was advertised as a feature of the console. Its not really a bid deal though, as it was used regularly by less than 1% of PS3 owners. While I dislike the idea that people are now going to be able to pirate PS3 games (Which will hurt the developers), what really annoys me is the fact that people are now going to be able to cheat on PSN games. Hopefully Sony will be able to keep on top of this. All games really need to be patched with a system to vote to kick players though, and PSN needs a better reporting system. Is there potential for mega haxing in online games over PSN? That would annoy me, because I've experienced very few cases thus far. I imagine PSN will be updated with sort of the same detection as Xbox live for background information processing that will be blocked. That or their new buddies Valve will lend a hand and give some form of anti-cheat on the PSN networks. How likely that will happen and if it successfully works in beyond my scope of understanding.
Cube Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 The PS3 is admittedly a fantastic device considering it's price, Last time I checked it was still above £200...
Red Runner Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Hey. I decided to sound off here a bit based on this topic. Yeah, I heard about this the other day, and it seems to have come not too long after the discovery of the exploit in that Sukkari game for homebrews...personally, I think it's rather vile and hubristic to publicize and brag that you hacked a major corporation's proprietary hardware just so you could run a mediocre, outdated OS (yes, I think Linux blows). But now people will be using this for devious purposes, so there is no honor in doing this sort of thing. It's a shame, too, because I've been reading posts from commenters on other sites saying things like "LOL now we can haz free games from teh PSN". Yeah, I never understood the mentality of how hackers think they have to "stick it to the man" when they are a corporation and they are trying to make money by selling a consumer good. What a novel concept! I'd love to see how they'd react to this news if THEY ran a major electronics corporation and their hardware was hacked by a bunch of arrogant nerds.
dwarf Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) @Debug But you're missing the point that it's almost certainly for the greater good, and as a feature, yes it was niche, and no, I don't think those users are seriously that concerned about it. It's just a melodrama about consumer rights. To be frank, your toaster analogy was turd anyway. If we're going to stick with it though, the problem is more along the lines of 'damn, we left a carbon monoxide diode in there that after a lot of toasting could kill both our custom and business partners'. I wouldn't have had to raise this point if you'd done it the proper way, as we've always known the PS3 was comparable to TEH BARBECUE! Edited January 3, 2011 by dwarf
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