The Santa Fallacy and its Hazardous Effects on the Minds of Youth

[Eddage]

So all the Halloween characters are real?

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I'm not making a fuss. People are directing their opinions towards me.

 

That's open for debate, though. "Fuss" doesn't mean the active debate about it, "fuss" means that we believe you're making believing in Santa out to be something bad and undesirable when really, I don't think it's much of a problem either way if you believe in Santa or not.

 

Honestly, I couldn't care less if people play along with the Santa mythos or not. I believe they're perfectly able to raise their kids well either way. I'm just debating the arguments you make, which I don't agree with or believe to be true.

 

But I think we've exhausted this discussion. I think we've both said what we wanted to say.

[Serebii]

All hail the great god, Santa.

[Diageo]

So you equate keeping the Santa Claus mythos alive to bad parenting? Come on, any parent can be a bad parent - that has nothing to do with Santa Claus. It's all about how you use the Santa story. And your previously used media argument is invalid since a lot of the stuff we get from the media is bad. There's where the parents have to properly raise their kids.

Any parent can be a bad parent yes, and Santa can have negative consequences. I never said anyone that makes their children believe in Santa is a bad parent. Just like a parent that gives their children fast food is a bad parent, even if fast food has negative consequences. I'm saying that parents have to raise their kids properly, and that I don't want to use a Santa story.

 

I don't see anything wrong, but a lot of good things about a little escapism. But the example with diabetes is over the top and irrelevant. This discussion was never about that. This is about letting children keep their innocent and imaginary outlook on the world. "Deception" carries connotations of bad intentions, but it's the complete opposite: Parents are playing along with the children's imaginations and thereby strengthening the childlike naïvety and innocent outlook on the world that a lot of adult could use some more of. Why do you reckon Forrest Gump is so popular? Because it provides us with this innocent naïvety that a lot of people have forgotten, but miss.

 

Am I telling children about sex and drugs, why do I have to use this imaginary figure made by other people if I don't want to? If I think my children would be better off without it? I think naivety is a bad thing, while innocence is good. They're innocence won't be removed because Santa isn't there, it's not like i will force my kids to watch documentaries all day and prevent them from playing imaginary games.

 

Also, most children's imaginations will be based around stuff they've seen or heard, anyway. I don't see a problem with them not having developed that idea themselves. The kids who have an imagination active enough to come up with original ideas will do so anyway. I don't see them becoming better at that with parents constantly reminding them to live in the real world instead of playing along with a classic and successful mythos.

 

I want my kids to question things, not blindly believe everything they see on TV and films. I'll let them make up their own minds. But I'm not going to pretend that Santa exists.

 

If they ask me if Santa exists, I'll ask them what they think, and why. And if they think Santa exists, then they can believe it. When they are younger they'll probably just think he does anyway because of what other people tell them.

If they ask me if Santa exists, I'll ask them what they think, and why. And if they think Santa exists, then they can believe it. When they are younger they'll probably just think he does anyway because of what other people tell them.

 

So all the Halloween characters are real?

People dress up as them, they don't think people actually become them.

[Ganepark32]

I think a thread rip is necessary.

 

Children don't need Santa on their birthday. But they are able to understand that it's about gift giving, and family interaction. The same on mother's day, and on children's day. They can understand the point of Halloween without a fictional figure. They can have fun on New Year's and understand it's a family celebration, they can understand to be thankful on Thanksgiving day. The only holidays with fictional characters are Christmas and Easter, and if others can work without them, so can Christmas.

 

But that's the thing that I was talking about, children < 5 don't understand what is going on. Some older than 5 still can't comprehend the meanings behind these days even on a basic level. It's something which becomes ingrained in kids as they become older, as they experience the world through their social interactions and they begin to question what these days mean. Those that do show some understanding about what these days mean only do so because they've been told to act in a certain way or do certain things on these days. They haven't learnt independently about it. No young child knows what Mother's Day means or what Thanksgivings Day mean, contrary to what you said.

 

Same with Christmas. And that's why we use Santa. I never said it has anything to do with family but it tells the child what is happening with Christmas, about the gift giving, and as they get older and begin to realise that he isn't real then they're already primed if you will for it being about family as they're always there throughout the time when Santa is used.

[Diageo]

 

Same with Christmas. And that's why we use Santa. I never said it has anything to do with family but it tells the child what is happening with Christmas, about the gift giving, and as they get older and begin to realise that he isn't real then they're already primed if you will for it being about family as they're always there throughout the time when Santa is used.

 

 

It also acts as a way of getting kids to understand what christmas is really about: family getting together and the exchange of gifts to one another. A child isn't going to be able to comprehend this at an early age. They won't. The idea of objectively looking at one's self and understanding other people's views or the interactions that happen at christmas are beyond a child.

I'm not telling other people to discard the idea of Santa, and I've said that many times. I said I think there are more negative consequences than good and that I don't want to raise my children like that. It's not the way I want to teach things to them.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I'm not telling other people to discard the idea of Santa, and I've said that many times. I said I think there are more negative consequences than good and that I don't want to raise my children like that. It's not the way I want to teach things to them.

 

And this is where we disagree entirely.

 

But anway, as I said, I think we've each said what we have to say on the matter.

[Cube]

I think a thread rip is necessary.

 

Diageo Vs Santa Claus!

[EEVILMURRAY]

Santa itself only gives presents to good children, so the children only want to do good because of presents, and when they do something bad, they feel scared to tell anyone, they don't want to lose the presents, they feel guilty but don't tell anyone.

And when everyone gets older they do good things for rewards, it's a magic preparation for their growing up into the world of ass-kissing.

[Coolness Bears]

All this chatter is irrelevant since Santa Claus is real.

 

Anyway I went to see him yesterday with my nephew, he came up over the snowy hills and lost his hat along the way, twas most amusing. Unfortunately my name wasn't on his list to get a present so I'm now angry at him.

 

I wanted a G-Force sticker book as well.

[Cube]

Unfortunately my name wasn't on his list to get a present so I'm now angry at him.

 

You must be on his other list.

[Coolness Bears]

BUT I'VE BEEN GOOD THIS YEAR!

 

Well this one time I was little naughty...

 

but I'd say that was more kinky than naughty.

[Cube]

but I'd say that was more kinky than naughty.

 

But...but...you're like the most innocent person I know.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

but I'd say that was more kinky than naughty.

 

CB being kinky?! Impossible! Pigs haven't begun flying yet!

[Coolness Bears]

I didn't want to say anything but earlier when I was eating a mince pie.

 

I accidentally licked my lips seductively. :p

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Phew, now the world makes sense again!

[jayseven]

Scroll scroll scroll yawn scroooooll.

 

You're an idiot. I will lie to my child at every opportunity possible. I will enjoy their naive stupidness. I WILL TEACH THEM THAT THE WORLD LIES. And I will enjoy doing it. They will be awesome because of it. Fuck santa clause, I'm gonna have A SUN GOD that my kid prays to each night. If he forgets then I'm gonna change his clocks and freak him the fuck out.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Scroll scroll scroll yawn scroooooll.

 

You're an idiot. I will lie to my child at every opportunity possible. I will enjoy their naive stupidness. I WILL TEACH THEM THAT THE WORLD LIES. And I will enjoy doing it. They will be awesome because of it. Fuck santa clause, I'm gonna have A SUN GOD that my kid prays to each night. If he forgets then I'm gonna change his clocks and freak him the fuck out.

 

I can't decide who of us (if either) you agree with.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Praise Ra!

[Paj!]

Diageo, you clearly know nothing of raising a child, nor of being a child raised (partially) by a fucking depressive (like you're coming across as).

 

All children want is to let their imaginations run free, and they should be allowed to do so. You say you'll let them belive in Santa if, after questioning from you, that's what they want to do. But in their infancy, they'd be aware you, the parent, wouldn't be in sync with their belief in Santa, and as the main teacher/parent/nourisher/fucking parent, they'd be aware that there was a disconnect, which would distress them and affect them far more than finding out Santa doesn't exist ever would.

 

A child needs to rely on a parent to tell them that what they imagine is as magical as it seems, that what they want to believe in is real. They'll grow out of it - we all did. But like...everyone wishes for blissful ignorance of some sort during their lives again, to be transported back to fantasy worlds they created as a child. I wish I could go back and play with my Batcave with the collapsing widows etc.

 

Just let your children have SOME fun before they learn the incredibly depressing realities of life. Why else do you think children are 'allowed" to revel in the imaginary for so many (formative) years? We all wish we could live back in out imagined worlds. WHO GIVES A CRAP if a parent TELLS THEIR CHILD that Santa is real. There's nothing a parent would want more than to see their child's face light up with excitement when they see a plate with a seemingly half-eaten carrot on it, and a "note from Santa".

 

iuejfjnkfgjkgjkfg

 

I hate shite.

 

I'd bet that wasn't coherent, but I've been out tonight, so I give not a shite.

[Ramar]

Diageo Vs Santa Claus!

 

I roll with "Diageo talks shit for 2 pages".

 

I jest (sort of)

Edited December 21, 2010 by Ramar

[Diageo]

Since when is Santa the most amazing thing in the world, and anyone that doesn't like him has to be depressed.

 

You know everything about raising children, do you Paj?

 

They can play with their batcaves, and their yugioh cards and their power ranger costumes and everything they want. But they will know I got them the presents a Christmas, and it wasn't some stupid old man. You'd swear I was locking them in a dungeon with films of wars and murder with the responses I'm getting.

 

There won't be any disconnect, I'll be a wonderful authoritative parent, who is nurturing and caring. You don't know anything about me, so stop pretending you know exactly how my children would turn out. I'm not depressed, I've never been depressed.

 

I don't need Santa to excite my child, there are better ways to make them happy and excited, and it doesn't have to be with a half eaten carrot (which incidentally would be the Easter bunny).

 

I could say that children would hate you saying "I hate shite," every time they say something you don't like. But I'm not stupid enough to make accusations about how well you would raise your kids without actually knowing you.

 

Everyone else can have a debate without trying to be insulting, how about you try it sometime.

 

[nightwolf]

OI!

 

I did not want to come back to my thread finding you lot arguing about santa, bugger off and make another thread.

 

I will enjoy christmas and if I damn want children to believe in santa I will, it's supposed to be a lovely, family day and arguing over such a subject is just silly.

 

Silly, silly, silly.

 

Shooo!

 

Anyway, 4 Nights

[Diageo]

I do volunteer work with children and they all like me, I have done work experience in my old primary school and we all had great fun doing the singing show they were putting on. My friends have younger brothers who I'm actually friends with and we play games together like football and zombie chasing. I have younger cousins who all love hanging around with me. So clearly I know how to have a laugh with children.

 

OI!

 

I did not want to come back to my thread finding you lot arguing about santa, bugger off and make another thread.

 

I will enjoy christmas and if I damn want children to believe in santa I will, it's supposed to be a lovely, family day and arguing over such a subject is just silly.

 

Silly, silly, silly.

 

Shooo!

 

Anyway, 4 Nights

I never once told people to change their opinion on Santa. I always gave my reasons for not wanting to use him.

 

As long as people talk to me, I will reply. I thought it was over but then Paj came back stirring things up again.

[Happenstance]

OI!

 

I did not want to come back to my thread finding you lot arguing about santa, bugger off and make another thread.

 

I will enjoy christmas and if I damn want children to believe in santa I will, it's supposed to be a lovely, family day and arguing over such a subject is just silly.

 

Silly, silly, silly.

 

Shooo!

 

Anyway, 4 Nights

 

When you have kids will you be telling them Santa is real?