Mafia General Discussion Thread

[Jonnas]

A 10-player vanilla mafia sounds good. It could potentially run with others, too.

[Yvonne]

cool, I'll put it together and start signup once ace attorney and noname are done!

[Rummy]

So! I have a question!

 

I was wondering if it was possible for me to run a smallish mafia if there is a point soon where there aren't many going on. I figure I'd run maybe a ten person vanilla mafia to get a feel for running games ahead of doing anything experimental that could fall flat.

 

If people like this idea let me know and I'll mash together a plan quickly?

 

Only if I'm automatically allowed in

 

And maybe that activity is strict. Non-active=failz.

[ReZourceman]

Also bagsy me in. There should be a list of people not allowed to join too (harsh but true) activity wise.

[The Peeps]

If we're calling slots now then I want in!

[Cube]

I also want in on the limited, exclusive vanilla mafia.

[Tales]

I assume I'm already auto signed.

[Yvonne]

I remember seeing one time someone posted a spreadsheet showing how they kept track of a mafia game. Do the GMs have any tips about how they ran their own ones, any snags and things to watch out for?

[The Peeps]

I just keep track of everything in a word document.

 

name/role/ability - action - result

etc

etc

etc

 

---

Drafts of PMs

---

Draft of write-up

 

*proof read and post*

 

The thing you most want/need to get right is the balance. It doesn't matter what roles you have, you'll always need a good balance or the game will be too one-sided. If you have a powerful role on one side, you may need something to counter-act it.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Also, while it probably won't be as game-breaking in a small game like yours, you need to work out how powers will interact: in what order do they happen, which take priority in conflicts etc. In games with many and/or complicated powers it's nothing less than imperative.

[Jonnas]

I keep it in a notepad, with personal notation. The roles (and powers/properties/rulings) are kept in an Excel sheet.

 

I could send you a sample of the one I'm using for the AA mafia, but I don't know how you feel about spoilers. Mind if I do?

[Yvonne]

Jonnas you're saying all the right things to me baby!

 

that would be sweet

[EEVILMURRAY]

Also, while it probably won't be as game-breaking in a small game like yours, you need to work out how powers will interact: in what order do they happen, which take priority in conflicts etc. In games with many and/or complicated powers it's nothing less than imperative.

How would you do that? Sort conflicts out etc. for my game I'm considering a first-come-first-priority precedent. But (touch wood) I don't think I'll have that problem with the powers I've made up.

 

Maybe abilities before death. But I'm thinking they don't matter at all. EG, Player A redirects a Player B in the night phase but Player A is murdered. As such no redirection will take place.

[The Peeps]

How would you do that? Sort conflicts out etc. for my game I'm considering a first-come-first-priority precedent. But (touch wood) I don't think I'll have that problem with the powers I've made up.

 

Maybe abilities before death. But I'm thinking they don't matter at all. EG, Player A redirects a Player B in the night phase but Player A is murdered. As such no redirection will take place.

 

You just use common sense really. Traditionally kills are the last thing to happen at night so everyone else gets to perform their action before dying. With info gatherers it wouldn't matter so much but if a redirector is killed they should be able to redirect their final target before dying. Though I suppose it's down to the GMs discretion whether to follow it or not.

 

You need to work out if roleblockers have priority over redirection and stuff like that. If Player A misdirects everyone away from him to player B, will a roleblocker be able to target player A so he doesn't misdirect, or will the roleblocker be redirected to player B? You need to figure some of this out before starting so you don't have any roles that are accidentally too powerful. With most stuff you can just figure it out on the night - at least I do :p

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

How would you do that? Sort conflicts out etc. for my game I'm considering a first-come-first-priority precedent. But (touch wood) I don't think I'll have that problem with the powers I've made up.

 

Maybe abilities before death. But I'm thinking they don't matter at all. EG, Player A redirects a Player B in the night phase but Player A is murdered. As such no redirection will take place.

 

What Peeps said. However, the first-come-first-serve priority is pretty unfair since it's down to coincidence who happens to be online when. The night has a set limit, and within that limit it shouldn't matter when you send in your night action.

[Supergrunch]

Should the GM have to resolve things in a principled manner? It seems equally reasonable to judge things on a case-by-case basis (though not, as you pointed out, a first-come-first-served one).

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Well, I'd say yes in order to ensure that all cases are handled equally fair and to avoid any biased judgements in particular cases. However, for a principled approach to be completely fair it must be assumed that the initial balancing of powers and priorities is equally fair, something which in my experience is very hard to determine before the game is going, and thus a case-by-case approach might sometimes actually be more fair in the grand scale of things.

 

Bottom line: The ideal is to strive for equal treatment and proper balancing, but sometimes the balance might need to be readjusted midgame through specific judgements.

[Yvonne]

I was thinking each operator would have a priority, like how multiply is always evaluated before an addition. Being able to manipulate this order might be an interesting mechanic

[Supergrunch]

But... mafias obviously aren't fair. There's no way all players have equal "power," and it's not even clear whether or not that's desirable (after all, we often want some townies to be a bit sheep-like), so I don't see why it really matters how the GM chooses to resolve individual cases, unless he/she actually has a bias against an individual player.

[The Peeps]

I was thinking each operator would have a priority, like how multiply is always evaluated before an addition. Being able to manipulate this order might be an interesting mechanic

 

That's pretty much it but you do get individual cases that stand out now and then.

[EEVILMURRAY]

What Peeps said. However, the first-come-first-serve priority is pretty unfair since it's down to coincidence who happens to be online when.

I say that only with regards to characters with near/identical powers. If two redirectors target the same player but have two different players to redirect that player to. For example, you and Peeps target Supergrunch in the night phase. Peeps wants to send Supergrunch to Yvonne and Danny wants to redirect Supergrunch to Jonnas, the first one to send a PM should recieve the intended effect. Naturally this example is pretty tame as it excludes other possibilities of Supergrunch being protected/the redirectors being redirected themselves, but I hope you get the idea.

 

 

Naturally you can mention this in the write up.

Edited November 13, 2011 by EEVILMURRAY

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

But... mafias obviously aren't fair. There's no way all players have equal "power," and it's not even clear whether or not that's desirable (after all, we often want some townies to be a bit sheep-like), so I don't see why it really matters how the GM chooses to resolve individual cases, unless he/she actually has a bias against an individual player.

 

I don't mean "fair" on an absolute scale, but on a relative one. All powers oviously aren't equal, but they should be treated equally in all cases - a power can't suddenly beat another than it couldn't beat earlier unless there's a valid in-game reason for it. Consistency is the key.

 

The GM might tweak the priorities or effects of powers during the game to balance the game, but trying too hard to balance a game while it's ongoing might just end up unbalancing it even further. It's a tricky business.

 

I say that only with regards to characters with near/identical powers. If two redirectors target the same player but have two different players to redirect that player to. For example, you and Peeps target Supergrunch in the night phase. Peeps wants to send Supergrunch to Yvonne and Danny wants to redirect Supergrunch to Jonnas, the first one to send a PM should recieve the intended effect. Naturally this example is pretty tame as it excludes other possibilities of Supergrunch being protected/the redirectors being redirected themselves, but I hope you get the idea.

 

 

Naturally you can mention this in the write up.

 

I see your point, but I'm still not a fan of the first-come-first-serve basis. In my opinion it shouldn't have any repercussions to be late within the set time frame. I don't find it fair to give an advantage to people who are able to send in their targets more quickly.

[Cube]

Don't forget that the mafia discusses it amongst themselves before sending in their targets. So for most nights they'll be last.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Don't forget that the mafia discusses it amongst themselves before sending in their targets. So for most nights they'll be last.

 

What would you do with powers that are similar?

[Diageo]

Use story elements to pick priority in those cases.