UFOs

[Serebii]

The thing with Roswell though is that it was dismissed in the 40s, it was only in the late 70s did someone spout the words cover up

[Fierce_LiNk]

The thing with Roswell though is that it was dismissed in the 40s, it was only in the late 70s did someone spout the words cover up

 

Yes. People started to come forward with information. Although, you never can entirely tell what really happened by what people say, as they distort the truth. That's why I wish I could go back in time and be there myself, to see what actually happened. Maybe we'll never know the full details.

[Caris]

I've seen a UFO so I know they exist.

 

I'm totally aware people will read this post and shrug it off, but I'm a 100% sure what I saw and my friend said the exact same thing.

[Serebii]

I've seen a UFO so I know they exist.

 

I'm totally aware people will read this post and shrug it off, but I'm a 100% sure what I saw and my friend said the exact same thing.

Don't worry, I don't judge you. I've seen questionable things in the sky that I can't explain too

[Grazza]

I've seen some strange things in my time in the night sky. I've also seen strange things in NASA videos that they've released, such as what would have been considered "space debris" suddenly changing direction and speeding off.

 

Yeah, I've seen that too. As far as I'm aware, there is no explanation I can think of other than it being a craft. That or it was a bit of debris suddenly caught in two opposing gravitational fields (if that's even possible).

 

Aliens exist...this is a matter if scientific likelihood. However, whether or not they've visited us? People state that it would be impossible, but that's just narrow mindedness on their part. We used to say that breaking the speed of sound was impossible, or that flying was impossible, but those have since been proven wrong so who says there isn't a way to travel faster than the speed of light.

 

It's certainly the big dilemma on this subject. Might it be easier if aliens were gas-based, rather than water-based like us?

 

Not UFO related persay, but I did have a weird experience once, a few years ago.

 

How vivid was it? Was there any possibility it was a dream or hallucination?

 

Actually, this is what irks me about sceptics, about ghosts in particular, but it could also apply to alien encounters. If someone insists they've seen something, as far as I'm concerned they either did see what they said or they're not telling the truth. I just don't believe dreaming, hallucinations or optical illusions are a good enough explanation, because if you're a critical thinker, you'd rule those out.

 

I have actually had sleep paralysis, just the once. I had been playing on my Sega Saturn, then went to bed. I half woke up and had a hallucination of Reala fron "Nights" fly up into the air and land on my chest, which knocked the wind out of me. Then I fell back to sleep.

 

What I thought was remarkable about it was that it was not scary, and could in no way be mistaken for a paranormal experience.

 

Anyway, back to UFOs, I really should link to some specific examples, but the truth is I'm not a UFO enthusiast as such, and can't lay my hands on all the data quickly. However, I will say that I find the most fascinating reports are from pilots, both military and civilian. Pilots are trained to know everything in the sky, and so if something is unidentified to them, you can bet it's something strange.

[Serebii]

It was vivid as I was totally awake...I was totally awake before, didn't feel like I was drifting off and bam, there it was. It's just weird.

 

It's certainly the big dilemma on this subject. Might it be easier if aliens were gas-based, rather than water-based like us?

That's the thing, my theory has been that the dominant life on this planet was meant to be reptillian, but the meteor hit 65 million years ago and wiped out most cold blooded species on the planet. If it went in a similar manner on other planets, then life wouldn't be mammalian, it'd be reptilian which would explain "Greys"

[Fierce_LiNk]

Actually, this is what irks me about sceptics, about ghosts in particular, but it could also apply to alien encounters. If someone insists they've seen something, as far as I'm concerned they either did see what they said or they're not telling the truth. I just don't believe dreaming, hallucinations or optical illusions are a good enough explanation, because if you're a critical thinker, you'd rule those out.

 

Hmm, that's a bit harsh, in my view. I think the mind is a very complex thing. It can play tricks on you, and it can distort the truth. So, it wouldn't be a case of them simply "not telling the truth." To the person in question, they would think that they themselves were telling the truth. Optical illusions and even hallucinations sound fair to me, but then I think it depends on each individual. The thing that you have to remember is that when you see something, your mind records that information. The moment passes and all you have is the memory. Over time, that memory could change, even just subtley. You could subconsciously add in details that weren't there before. You forget bits. You remember others. Plus, you doubt yourself. You look back and think "Was it really like that, or was it like this?"

 

My Mum has told me stories about her Dad, when he went to war. He said he saw a ghost, and he told the story to her in such detail. What did he see? He thinks he saw something, but we weren't their, so I guess we just have to take his word for it. A leap of faith, if you will.

 

That's what I find so compelling about the Barney and Betty Hill case. Its an eyewitness account, with no photographic evidence or video footage. You just have their words, their medical reports and the thoughts of critics. In my heart, I believe they saw something that wasn't from this world. Maybe that's because I want to believe, I want it to be true.

[Platty]

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Hmm, that's a bit harsh, in my view. I think the mind is a very complex thing. It can play tricks on you, and it can distort the truth. So, it wouldn't be a case of them simply "not telling the truth." To the person in question, they would think that they themselves were telling the truth. Optical illusions and even hallucinations sound fair to me, but then I think it depends on each individual. The thing that you have to remember is that when you see something, your mind records that information. The moment passes and all you have is the memory. Over time, that memory could change, even just subtley. You could subconsciously add in details that weren't there before. You forget bits. You remember others. Plus, you doubt yourself. You look back and think "Was it really like that, or was it like this?"

 

My Mum has told me stories about her Dad, when he went to war. He said he saw a ghost, and he told the story to her in such detail. What did he see? He thinks he saw something, but we weren't their, so I guess we just have to take his word for it. A leap of faith, if you will.

 

That's what I find so compelling about the Barney and Betty Hill case. Its an eyewitness account, with no photographic evidence or video footage. You just have their words, their medical reports and the thoughts of critics. In my heart, I believe they saw something that wasn't from this world. Maybe that's because I want to believe, I want it to be true.

	Audio

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

EDIT: HA! Beaten to it! :p

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'm not going to lie. I wanted to sneak that into this thread somewhere.

 

X-Files love!

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

This is one of those times we need a "love" button instead of a simple "thanks".

[Grazza]

My Mum has told me stories about her Dad, when he went to war. He said he saw a ghost, and he told the story to her in such detail. What did he see?

 

Honestly? He probably saw a ghost.

 

The thing about sceptics, is they think they're more rational than those who may accept UFO or ghost sightings. However, I'd say sceptics are more irrational.

 

If an intelligent, sober person sees something, then I have very little reason to doubt it. A ghost does not look like a shadow or a beam of light and an alien craft does not look like a planet or meteor. If you see something like that, you think "What's that?", then take another look and you realise it's just a shadow etc. However, if you're convinced that a detailed image of a ghost or a UFO is in front of you, how could it be an illusion?

 

I've seen documentaries where scientists, using electro-magnetic waves, claim they can recreate conditions in which people believe they have paranormal experiences. What actually happens though, is that people just feel a bit odd or woozy. They never see detailed apparitions of any kind.

 

That's what I find so compelling about the Barney and Betty Hill case. Its an eyewitness account, with no photographic evidence or video footage. You just have their words, their medical reports and the thoughts of critics. In my heart, I believe they saw something that wasn't from this world. Maybe that's because I want to believe, I want it to be true.

 

That case is interesting, but this is where I'm different - I don't actually want to believe and I don't not want to believe. It's just that the evidence, particularly over the past three years or so, has been remarkable. To me, it all points towards the fact that aliens are visiting us. I'm open to the idea that they may not be at all, but I'd say it's about 60% likely that they are.

 

When policemen, pilots and farmers all see things they are convinced are not human, how wrong can they really be? Deliberate misinformation is the only rational alternative I can think of. I do believe, more and more, the evidence is under our notices, and some people really don't want to believe it.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Honestly? He probably saw a ghost.

 

The thing about sceptics, is they think they're more rational than those who may accept UFO or ghost sightings. However, I'd say sceptics are more irrational.

 

If an intelligent, sober person sees something, then I have very little reason to doubt it. A ghost does not look like a shadow or a beam of light and an alien craft does not look like a planet or meteor. If you see something like that, you think "What's that?", then take another look and you realise it's just a shadow etc. However, if you're convinced that a detailed image of a ghost or a UFO is in front of you, how could it be an illusion?

 

I've seen documentaries where scientists, using electro-magnetic waves, claim they can recreate conditions in which people believe they have paranormal experiences. What actually happens though, is that people just feel a bit odd or woozy. They never see detailed apparitions of any kind.

 

 

 

That case is interesting, but this is where I'm different - I don't actually want to believe and I don't not want to believe. It's just that the evidence, particularly over the past three years or so, has been remarkable. To me, it all points towards the fact that aliens are visiting us. I'm open to the idea that they may not be at all, but I'd say it's about 60% likely that they are.

 

When policemen, pilots and farmers all see things they are convinced are not human, how wrong can they really be? Deliberate misinformation is the only rational alternative I can think of. I do believe, more and more, the evidence is under our notices, and some people really don't want to believe it.

Sorry, but your logic irks me a bit. The thing is that the brain is very easily tricked, and the mind actively searches for human traits - that's why it's possible to see a "face" on the moon. Also, since ghost and alien lore is so prevalent in the collective consciousness, and since no solid "rules" apply to such encounters, it's easy to fit experiences into that category without any evidence. Few people know all the possible explanations there may be for what they have experienced, and to paraphrase a quote from a film: "There are countless possible mundane and boring explanations for what you experienced, yet you immediately jump to the conclusion that it had to be supernatural."

 

Trust me, I'm not denying the possibility that these things are real, nor am I calling everyone claiming to have experienced something naïve. But with all due respect, I think you underestimate how easy it can be to fool the brain - as well as the human mind.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Honestly? He probably saw a ghost.

 

But we can't be entirely certain of what he did see. To give a bit more information, he was keeping watch/guard at night-time and saw something, after which he fired off warning shots. You have to take into account the fact that they (the troops) were all sleep deprived/worn out at the time, they'd seen many horrible things, and the fact that they were fighting in an intense war put a strain on them. I'm not saying that he didn't see a ghost, but I could see why he may have been mistaken with what he saw. Equally, I can also believe that it was a ghost. Why it was there, I don't know. But, he was kept safe from harm and made it through the war.

 

The thing about sceptics, is they think they're more rational than those who may accept UFO or ghost sightings. However, I'd say sceptics are more irrational.

 

If an intelligent, sober person sees something, then I have very little reason to doubt it. A ghost does not look like a shadow or a beam of light and an alien craft does not look like a planet or meteor. If you see something like that, you think "What's that?", then take another look and you realise it's just a shadow etc. However, if you're convinced that a detailed image of a ghost or a UFO is in front of you, how could it be an illusion?

 

But then the true meaning of a UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. So, there's a difference between saying that they've seen that and saying that they've seen an alien space-craft. I think there's many more factors that can affect what you "believe" that you've seen, it's not strictly about intelligence or being sober. Is it a co-incidence that many sightings and abductions have reportedly taken place since films like Close Encounters of the Third Kind, or ET, for example? Or that the crafts that are being described are similar to the ones in these films? Of course, there were many reported sightings before this, but then over the years there's been an increase in the number of science fiction space films, ghost films, and such. I believe that in some cases (not all) that these films have contributed to these reports.

 

That's why I think it's different from person to person. I like to look at each case/story and the details, because then you get a better picture of the whole thing. If somebody did tell me that they saw something, and were able to describe what they saw in detail, then I'd probably believe them. For example, Ine told me yesterday (might have been the day before) that she saw something in the sky as a child, and didn't know what it was. What I like is that she didn't label it as an Alien craft or something, she said she didn't know what it was. I think many people may have experiences like this, where they see things, but they're not sure what they have seen. I believe that many of these are perhaps taken as being Alien craft, when maybe they have come to that resolution a bit too quickly.

 

 

I've seen documentaries where scientists, using electro-magnetic waves, claim they can recreate conditions in which people believe they have paranormal experiences. What actually happens though, is that people just feel a bit odd or woozy. They never see detailed apparitions of any kind.

 

That case is interesting, but this is where I'm different - I don't actually want to believe and I don't not want to believe. It's just that the evidence, particularly over the past three years or so, has been remarkable. To me, it all points towards the fact that aliens are visiting us. I'm open to the idea that they may not be at all, but I'd say it's about 60% likely that they are.

 

When policemen, pilots and farmers all see things they are convinced are not human, how wrong can they really be? Deliberate misinformation is the only rational alternative I can think of. I do believe, more and more, the evidence is under our notices, and some people really don't want to believe it.

 

But that's where I think we differ. I don't think its a simple case of either lying or telling the truth. People can be convinced that they've seen something, but like I mentioned earlier, if they've seen something in the past, it's very difficult to disprove what they've seen. We make mistakes, its in our nature to do that. Equally, it's difficult to prove that they did see something. Like Barney and Betty Hill. How can we even prove that they saw something and were abducted? How can we disprove it?

 

Just for the record, I wouldn't actually consider myself a skeptic. But, also, behind each story, you need to look at the people telling that story. The more I read about Barney and Betty, the more I get a better understanding of them as people, and that makes me more inclined to read their story. With my Grandad's story, I'm torn, because of what was going on at the time in his life. So, I would class myself as somebody who is willing to believe, but wants as much info as possible.

 

I also read somewhere that Neil Armstrong claimed he saw something whilst on the way to the Moon. There was an object that flew at the same speed as them, before advancing off at a much greater speed.

[Zell]

As a mathematician and a scientist, it is simply unfeasible that alien life has ever been able to visit Earth. Of course, if you believe in green monsters that defy the laws of physics then what's stopping you believing in ghosts, crab people and the flying spaghetti monster?

 

I don't deny that people have seen UFOs and haven't been able to explain them. But that does in no way immediately imply that this UFO is "otherworldly". That's like saying: "I don't know where this pen came from, therefore it must come from the planet Vulcan".

 

UFO sightings are also massively discredited by that fact that they only seem to appear before one person who lives in a remote area of countryside. Why haven't UFOs appeared in London? Why has this supposed alien spacecraft travelled thousands of lightyears to do absolutely nothing but create a conspiracy theory? Couldn't they have at least communicated with us? Exchanged gifts? Added us as friends on Facebook?

 

Our eyes can be very deceiving and most UFO sightings are simply misinterpretations of natural phenomena combined with some wishful thinking.

[Nintenchris]

. Why haven't UFOs appeared in London?

 

http://volcanic-ash-uk.com/ufos-in-sky-over-london-during-volcanic-ash-apil-2010/volcano-502-uk-flights-cancelled.php

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

As a mathematician and a scientist, it is simply unfeasible that alien life has ever been able to visit Earth. Of course, if you believe in green monsters that defy the laws of physics then what's stopping you believing in ghosts, crab people and the flying spaghetti monster?

 

I don't deny that people have seen UFOs and haven't been able to explain them. But that does in no way immediately imply that this UFO is "otherworldly". That's like saying: "I don't know where this pen came from, therefore it must come from the planet Vulcan".

 

UFO sightings are also massively discredited by that fact that they only seem to appear before one person who lives in a remote area of countryside. Why haven't UFOs appeared in London? Why has this supposed alien spacecraft travelled thousands of lightyears to do absolutely nothing but create a conspiracy theory? Couldn't they have at least communicated with us? Exchanged gifts? Added us as friends on Facebook?

 

Our eyes can be very deceiving and most UFO sightings are simply misinterpretations of natural phenomena combined with some wishful thinking.

While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, this is simply untrue. Unexplained celestial phenomena have appeared over large cities and have been witnessed by lots of people. An example:

 

[Serebii]

While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, this is simply untrue. Unexplained celestial phenomena have appeared over large cities and have been witnessed by lots of people. An example:

 

Moscow;

 

[Zell]

Still, if those were aliens over London then I was half expecting the announcement of the imminent destruction of Earth in order to make way for an intergalactic hyperspace bypass :P

[Fierce_LiNk]

Those are great videos. There were newspaper reports about that pyramid.

 

Here

 

and

 

Here

 

Apparantly it wasn't covered by the media in Russia. And, there are supposedly only two pieces of footage which were taken. Hmm. Surely you'd have seen more people gathering together on the ground, taking pictures of the object, or standing and pointing? It seems odd that very few people seem to acknowledge it.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Still, if those were aliens over London then I was half expecting the announcement of the imminent destruction of Earth in order to make way for an intergalactic hyperspace bypass :P

I'm not arguing what they were, just that UFOs are definitely not only seen by rednecks and farmers like you seemed to think.

[Zell]

I'm not arguing what they were, just that UFOs are definitely not only seen by rednecks and farmers like you seemed to think.

 

I know, I was just making a cheeky reference to Douglas Adams

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I know, I was just making a cheeky reference to Douglas Adams

Fair enough. I should probably get around to reading that series.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Dannyboy-the-Dane

[Grazza]

Sorry, but your logic irks me a bit. The thing is that the brain is very easily tricked, and the mind actively searches for human traits - that's why it's possible to see a "face" on the moon.

 

Yes, and in clouds and in tree trunks... etc. But the difference is we know that it is not a face. If you see something odd, you do a "double take", and in this moment you can easily rule out shadows and other illusions.

 

Also, since ghost and alien lore is so prevalent in the collective consciousness, and since no solid "rules" apply to such encounters, it's easy to fit experiences into that category without any evidence. Few people know all the possible explanations there may be for what they have experienced, and to paraphrase a quote from a film: "There are countless possible mundane and boring explanations for what you experienced, yet you immediately jump to the conclusion that it had to be supernatural."

 

But I'm not talking about vague experiences, I'm talking about detailed apparitions and sightings. I do accept the human brain is complex, and feelings of being spooked out, or that there is a nearby "presence" could be (and probably are) entirely due to chemicals in the brain. I do not, however, accept the brain can throw up very detailed images in front of you when you are fully awake and sober.

 

But we can't be entirely certain of what he did see. To give a bit more information, he was keeping watch/guard at night-time and saw something, after which he fired off warning shots. You have to take into account the fact that they (the troops) were all sleep deprived/worn out at the time, they'd seen many horrible things, and the fact that they were fighting in an intense war put a strain on them. I'm not saying that he didn't see a ghost, but I could see why he may have been mistaken with what he saw. Equally, I can also believe that it was a ghost. Why it was there, I don't know. But, he was kept safe from harm and made it through the war.

 

Well, it depends on exactly what he saw. I accept many things can look like a human figure. However, if it was a detailed, translucent human figure, the most rational explanation is that it was a ghost.

 

But then the true meaning of a UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. So, there's a difference between saying that they've seen that and saying that they've seen an alien space-craft.

 

I totally agree. I do not say UFOs are spacecraft, nor do I say ghosts are spirits. Both could be a rare optical phenomenon.

 

As a mathematician and a scientist, it is simply unfeasible that alien life has ever been able to visit Earth. Of course, if you believe in green monsters that defy the laws of physics then what's stopping you believing in ghosts, crab people and the flying spaghetti monster?

 

There's no point in being facetious - people don't claim to see crab people or spaghetti monsters. Hardly anyone claims to have seen aliens either.

 

I don't deny that people have seen UFOs and haven't been able to explain them. But that does in no way immediately imply that this UFO is "otherworldly". That's like saying: "I don't know where this pen came from, therefore it must come from the planet Vulcan".

 

Right, but I didn't say otherworldy - I said non-human. That could mean an unknown optical phenomenon, a biological creature or something else.

 

Why has this supposed alien spacecraft travelled thousands of lightyears to do absolutely nothing but create a conspiracy theory? Couldn't they have at least communicated with us? Exchanged gifts? Added us as friends on Facebook?

 

You're making assumptions about what they might want. For a start, how do we know they're not doing anything? They might simply be observing us and our space programme or they might be doing something else we can't understand. Who's to say they want to make contact? Who's to say they haven't? They'd be intelligent enough to contact world leaders - that doesn't necessarily mean they want to appear on TV or talk to the average person.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Right, I understand what you mean better now, and I am more inclined to agree with you now.