Israel, the Gaza Strip and an Attacked Flotilla

[Dan_Dare]

well Israel just massacred some civilians, trampled over International Law, Human Rights and generally reinforced their status as an apartheid state run by war criminal fascists, but that's hardly anything new, so no.

[The fish]

well Israel just massacred some civilians, trampled over International Law, Human Rights and generally reinforced their status as an apartheid state run by war criminal fascists, but that's hardly anything new, so no.

 

For once, I'm with Israel on this one. A quite legitimate boarding search party was assaulted, and the individual soldiers had their right to defend themselves.

[Dan_Dare]

If they had legitimate evidence they were in the right by firing live ammo at men armed with sticks, then why have they kidnapped civilians and caused a media blackout over it? They've committed war crimes and they're covering their asses by silencing whoever they can untill their story is the accepted one.

[Emasher]

The Blockade itself was illegal though. It was in international waters. You cannot blockade international waters legally.

There was also no reasonable reason to be suspicious of this ship. This wasn't just some little project where a bunch of random people were taking a ship full of what they claimed to be food. This was a large and well publicized initiative, and there were many high ranking officials on board.

Armed men came aboard the ship which was in international waters and when people on board the ship tried to defend it, they were killed. You know, this really reminds me of piracy to be honest.

[Dan_Dare]

It was state terrorism. No two ways about it.

[Emasher]

Apparently Turkey has stated that they will send more aid ships escorted by the Turkish Navy. Technically, Turkey has already been attacked by Israel when they boarded the ship, but if they do attack a Navy escort, there isn't much chance that the two countries don't go to war. And guess what. Turkey is a NATO member, meaning we'd all end up at war with Israel.

 

I'm looking for a good source on this. Its mostly been small sites reporting it.

 

Either way, we're on the verge of war with Israel.

[Shino]

We're on the verge of war with a lot of stuff it seems...

[Emasher]

I wouldn't call 2 countries a lot.

[Debug Mode]

I wouldn't call 2 countries a lot.

 

You should really read up about the current state of the middle east. They are on the verge of slitting each others throats.

 

Well, it's mainly hatred at Israel right now. Netanyahu is pretty much a fucking pleb and they need to stop with the hypocrisies. Israel fears Iran for progressing with their nuclear plan on the account that 'they might make nukes', which you can't cry foul at if many countries suspect you of having them yourself (and lets face it, it's highly likely in these times they do have them). Scream bloody murder when the Palestinians retaliate and urge international cooperation against them, despite murdering quite a large number themselves. And more recently, this absolutely disgusting situation.

 

But despite all this leading to my stance that their government is absolutely outrageous, I'm apparently an anti-semite. I have Jewish friends, I sympathise for the people getting a bad name and reputation for the acts of a higher power, but I'm not kidding when I say I've been called an anti-semite despite all this because I sympathise with their opposition as well and my criticism of their leaders.

 

Considering all the relations that are tied in with the nations at each other, if some shit hit the fan, I'm placing my bets on world war. It does not look good at all.

 

EDIT: I realise I kinda contradicted myself with the whole sympathising with the people but not their government by using Israel as a collective, implying the citizens are also hypocritical. I would edit it, but It's easier just to add this note.

[Iun]

But despite all this leading to my stance that their government is absolutely outrageous, I'm apparently an anti-semite. I have Jewish friends, I sympathise for the people getting a bad name and reputation for the acts of a higher power, but I'm not kidding when I say I've been called an anti-semite despite all this because I sympathise with their opposition as well and my criticism of their leaders.

 

 

With the best will in the world, I've been called an anti-semite for calling Jewish guy an asshole. I never mentioned the word "jew" to him or made reference to his religion, but apparently you can't be an asshole if you're Jewish.

 

This situation in the Middle East... the Israeli's are being real fuck-ups about it, they've lost most of their support after that Hamas assassination and the forged passport scandal. The only real support they have is from the US, which comes in the form of support from American Israelis and the fact that America is waging a war on terror - something the Palestinians are very much guilty of.

 

Talking straight: The Israeli's need to follow the rules - stop all the settling in lands occupied by Palestinians and engage in meaningful dialogue.

 

The Palestinians need to stop reacting to the sight of every JCB with a rocket attack and be prepared to not get everything they want.

 

No-one is going to come up smelling of roses, but if both sides are prepared to give their shit a rest for a while, then things could change.

 

Right now it's tit-for-tat all the way.

[Dan_Dare]

You should really read up about the current state of the middle east. They are on the verge of slitting each others throats.

 

Well, it's mainly hatred at Israel right now. Netanyahu is pretty much a fucking pleb and they need to stop with the hypocrisies. Israel fears Iran for progressing with their nuclear plan on the account that 'they might make nukes', which you can't cry foul at if many countries suspect you of having them yourself (and lets face it, it's highly likely in these times they do have them). Scream bloody murder when the Palestinians retaliate and urge international cooperation against them, despite murdering quite a large number themselves. And more recently, this absolutely disgusting situation.

 

But despite all this leading to my stance that their government is absolutely outrageous, I'm apparently an anti-semite. I have Jewish friends, I sympathise for the people getting a bad name and reputation for the acts of a higher power, but I'm not kidding when I say I've been called an anti-semite despite all this because I sympathise with their opposition as well and my criticism of their leaders.

 

Considering all the relations that are tied in with the nations at each other, if some shit hit the fan, I'm placing my bets on world war. It does not look good at all.

 

EDIT: I realise I kinda contradicted myself with the whole sympathising with the people but not their government by using Israel as a collective, implying the citizens are also hypocritical. I would edit it, but It's easier just to add this note.

 

Israel's nuclear capability was confirmed recently by leaked documents from a proposed sale of nukes to Apartheid South Africa.

 

Seriously. fuck Israel.

[gmac]

this article doesn't make Gaza look so poverty struck

[Diageo]

I'm not gonna pretend to know the facts about this Gaza situation but here's a video I found interesting.

[Emasher]

I'm not gonna pretend to know the facts about this Gaza situation but here's a video I found interesting.

 

I don't think anyone is denying the fact that the people on board the ship acted that way towards the soldiers, but in reality, they were just defending the ship.

[Daft]

Facts

 

• The flotilla was in international water.
  
• The blockade is illegal.
  
• The flotilla is under law a civilian vessel and thus taking the any activist into Israeli territory is kidnapping.
  
• Similarly, it is illegal to shoot at civilians - they were not armed with guns (the violence is not proportional.)
  
• The activists then had all their belongings taken from them and not given back (including recording equipment).
  
• They were then forced to sign a paper for deportation saying that they trespassed in Israeli territory. Obviously, they hadn't.
  

 

Now a report from the WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION about the state of Gaza. Link

 

Introduction

 

The health sector in the Gaza Strip has been severely affected by the prolonged closure

of Gaza’s borders and by the Israeli military operation at the turn of the year.

 

Health Care Facilities

 

Structural damage to the hospitals and PHC facilities has not been adequately

addressed due to the lack of construction materials.

 

Medical Supplies and logistics

 

An estimated 4,600 tons of donated medical supplies and equipment entered into the

Gaza Strip during and immediately after the conflict, creating enormous logistical

challenges for the MoH Central Drug Store.

 

Unfortunately, the donation stocks have had only a moderate impact on pre-existing

supply shortages due to a widespread problem of short expiry dates, the preponderance

of non-essential items, and a lack of variety in the items sent.

 

As of July 2009, approximately 16 - 20% of essential items are

out of stock for the Drug and Disposable Stores respectively. Although supplies have

been arriving from the West Bank, the quantities and variety of items sent have been

insufficient to significantly address current shortages.

 

 

Utilities

 

The 23 days of Israeli military operations in Gaza Strip heavily impacted the water and

sanitation services, leading to the near collapse of these vital services. Heavy

bombardments reduced the power supply to a minimum level and damaged a number of

water and wastewater facilities, affecting the operation of over 150 water wells and 37

sewage pumping stations. After the ceasefire, approximately 10% of the Gaza

population was cut off from the water supply and sewage began flooding populated

areas and farmland. Repairs to the water supply and sewage systems were initiated by

several different parties following the ceasefire. Access to water has gradually

improved; by June, approximately 10,000 people remained disconnected from the water

supply.

 

Repairs to damaged power lines and the entry of diesel fuel to run the local power plant

has increased the availability of public electricity at the health facility level. Power

outages across the Gaza Strip have now decreased to a daily average of 2 hours. Fuel

needed to run emergency generators during power outages is in good supply, and all

hospitals have two backup generators. All health facilities have access to water.

 

Health Status

 

Casualties and Disabilities

 

People with traumatic injuries and permanent disabilities may require assistive devices

such as wheelchairs, crutches, walking aids and pressure care products. These items

have been donated in large quantities to organization providing rehabilitation services.

However, poor coordination capacity hampered an equal and effective distribution of

these items, and it is still unclear what needs remain. Many persons received the same

assistive devices from different organizations, and there are reports that beneficiaries

are selling these devices. There are also limited options for beneficiaries to receive

maintenance services for their devices. Furthermore, many of the persons responsible

for prescribing assistive devices often lack the technical skills required to ensure that

devices are appropriate for the needs of the beneficiary. The inappropriate prescription

of devices, as well as a lack of training for beneficiaries on how to correctly use and

maintain their devices, can lead to complications and further permanent disability.

 

There is an urgent need to increase the production of prostheses within Gaza to ensure

that new amputees receive prostheses in a timely manner. This is important to reduce

further disability and assist with inclusion in society.

 

This is where it gets good...

 

Communicable Diseases

 

Watery diarrhoea as well as acute bloody diarrhoea and viral hepatitis remain the major

causes of morbidity among reportable infectious diseases in the refugee population of

the Gaza Strip. Immunization coverage remains high across the Gaza Strip.

Contaminated water samples have been found in the public water supply, water storage tanks, and in water wells in areas that were severely damaged during the war. An increasing trend was evident for watery diarrhoea cases after the crisis, however, no communicable disease outbreak occurred in the Gaza Strip.

 

 

And then the pollution! Oh what JOY!! Link (I'd find the WHO link but too much effort has already gone into this post and I'm tired.)

 

The Gaza Strip is the most densely populated piece of land in the world but it has had little or no investment in infrastructure for years, and the situation has worsened since sanctions were imposed last year.

 

With no sewage plant, Gaza's waste is dumped into the sea, making it unsafe for fishing or swimming according to a recent report.

It was envisioned to be Gaza's open-ended source of possibilities. But the Gaza shore is now too polluted to use safely.

 

It is estimated that 20 million cubic metres of raw sewage are pumped into the sea every year through 14 discharge outlets spanning the 42km-long shore.

The stench is unbearable but it was the skin rashes children developed after swimming that drove Ramadan Abu Seif, a resident of the Al-Shate refugee camp, which is next to one of the sewage-discharge outlets, to act.

 

He says that he has to tell children playing by the sea to stay away. "They are kids, they don't know", he says.

 

It would take over $200 million to construct the needed sewage treatment plants in Gaza, but given the current political climate, donors are not expected to put up this amount any time soon.

In some areas the sewage is collected in open pools, which are fast reaching full capacity, threatening nearby neighbourhoods with disaster.

 

Samir al-Afifi, the director of the Palestinian Environmental Friends Association, has been studying pollution on Gaza's shores for the past 10 years.

 

He recently published a study on the Rafah shores, concluding that they are simply not safe for swimming or fishing.

 

He says: "Eye, skin infection, ear infection and headache - there is a close relation between the level of contamination of sea water and the people who are visiting these sites."

 

Al-Afifi says the pollution sometimes reaches two to five kilometres into the sea and that even the shore sand is polluted.

 

The quality of fish is already suffering.

 

He says that "a suitable site to be used for recreation" cannot be found anywhere in the Gaza Strip.

 

Without treatment plants, creating a sewage network like the one in central Gaza has caused more damage than good. Here, out of sight has not been out of mind.

 

With international sanctions still choking the struggling Palestinian economy and no political horizon in sight, addressing this menacing problem will have to wait while the cost of politics and occupation continues to mount.

 

This is all thanks to Israel.

 

It isn't about supporting one side or the other. It is about human rights, which are currently being fucked on.

 

Edit:

 

For once, I'm with Israel on this one. A quite legitimate boarding search party was assaulted, and the individual soldiers had their right to defend themselves.

 

You still preaching utter crap?

 

Former US Ambassador Edward Peck had a rather amusing take on the situation;

 

....You know, here, one of the things I find that is the twist in this thing was that these peaceful, heavily armed commandos who were in international waters to capture a ship full of men and women, who were not bothering Israel, and who took what steps they could to try to prevent these pirates from doing it, are accused of attacking them. Mr.—the deputy ambassador, they were defending the ship. The Israelis were attacking it, and the passengers didn’t want them to do it. And to see somebody using a deckchair against a heavily-armed and armored Israeli soldier, I mean, my god, that’s a dangerous weapon. It’s called twisting the story. If you come to attack me and I defend myself, you know, that’s considered legal in law....

Edited June 3, 2010 by Daft

[Emasher]

The one thing you're missing, and I'll admit, something I overlooked earlier, it actually is legal to enforce a maritime blockade in international waters to stop your enemy from getting weapons and stuff like that, and you are able to stop anything without any suspicion. Of course, its quite obvious that the blockade enforcer has to have entered the war legally for the blockade to be legal, which if you look at even the basic points of the history of Israel, its very clear that the Israelis had no right to attack palestine, regardless of what the Rothschild family wants you to believe.

 

You should really read up about the current state of the middle east. They are on the verge of slitting each others throats.

 

And before I forget, my reply to this post was lost in the thread split, so I'll just point out to anyone who's reading this thread through now, I was being sarcastic.

[Daft]

And so the blockade is illegal. No?

 

Not to mention the blockade should not be continued if the 'damage to civilian population is going to be excessive in relation to the military advantage'.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Daft

[Emasher]

In my opinion yes. I just wanted to point that out though, as it is a significant part of the whole argument.

[Daft]

Yeah, I was just making sure I understood it right.

[Emasher]

See the problem is people are looking at the fact that there are cases where a maritime blockade in international waters can be legal based on international law (an example of one that was was the one the United States enforced around Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis), and they're automatically assuming that all Maritime blockades are legal because of these laws.

 

Like everything else though, this isn't black and white.

[McPhee]

The blockade's legality doesn't excuse the stupidity of the activists. Legal or not the blockade was there, they new it was there and they will have had a good idea of the consequences of crossing it. They still crossed it. Heck, they went one step further, they crossed it and then attacked Israeli troops. I've got no sympathy for them at all. I can't help but think it was all one big publicity stunt.

 

I would agree that the blockade shouldn't be there and does need removing though.

[chairdriver]

Everyone seems to be in the wrong in this one.

 

That's pretty much true of every war though, so deal with it.

[Daft]

The blockade's legality doesn't excuse the stupidity of the activists. Legal or not the blockade was there, they new it was there and they will have had a good idea of the consequences of crossing it. They still crossed it. Heck, they went one step further, they crossed it and then attacked Israeli troops. I've got no sympathy for them at all. I can't help but think it was all one big publicity stunt.

 

I would agree that the blockade shouldn't be there and does need removing though.

 

Of course it was a was for publicity but what else would you propose?

 

The international community has done absolutely NOTHING for long enough. Gaza is virtually functioning on solely humanitarian aid.

 

It's not stupidity. It's desperation, desperation for the innocent people who are suffering and being categorically denied their human rights.

 

The activists aren't looking for your less than useless sympathy.

[The fish]

The blockade's legality doesn't excuse the stupidity of the activists. Legal or not the blockade was there, they new it was there and they will have had a good idea of the consequences of crossing it. They still crossed it. Heck, they went one step further, they crossed it and then attacked Israeli troops. I've got no sympathy for them at all. I can't help but think it was all one big publicity stunt.

 

I would agree that the blockade shouldn't be there and does need removing though.

 

What he said.

[The fish]

It's not stupidity. It's desperation, desperation for the innocent people who are suffering and being categorically denied their human rights.

 

The activists aren't looking for your less than useless sympathy.

 

Stupidity caused by desperation is still stupidity.

 

If they were genuinely intent of delivering the aid, and solely doing so, they would have taken the safer route of letting the Israelis or Egyptians deliverer it for them, as offered. However, their insistence on doing it themselves makes it blindingly obvious the had the main objective of deliberately flaunting the Israeli rules for the sake of flaunting the rules. If no alternative for delivering aid had been offered, then, fair enough. In this situation, though, I were presented with essentially two equal options, and decided to take the provocative one. The only possible explanation for their choice was to deliberately cause a confrontation with Israel, and it was predictable almost down to the exact execution as to what would happen to them.

 

Of course it was a was for publicity but what else would you propose?

 

Take up the offer made by Israel, or, indeed, the identical offer made by Egypt? If their true objective was just to get aid to Gaza, they would have taken these.