Great People

[chairdriver]

You got a little something brown on your nose.

 

That slander has literally no affect on me, considering I'm a sexual liberalist and they're so essential as forum-members.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'm probably going to get shot for replying to this, but I feel again I should reply. This is for you, Shorty.

 

If he was a water polo player, he wouldn't even be a blimp in your radar, is more my point. There's many like him in football and when you count in all sports, the amount is ridiculously high to the point of practically disqualifying the people as "special". The only reason he's mentioned here is because you brits (sorry for the generalization) are obsessed with football (and so are we Portuguese, even if I personally don't give a shit about it)!

 

Sorry dude, but the whole point of my posts was to explain how there weren't many people like Bergkamp. He is of a very, very special and limited breed. Yeah, there are many talented footballers out there, but Dennis is one of the few of his time who stand out from an exceptionally talented bunch. The British are obsessed with football, but so are the French, so are the Italians, so are the Brazilians and Argentinians. It is a big part of the culture now in these countries.

 

Pele was great, so was Maradona, so is Tiger Woods, so is Michael Phelps, etc etc... these are truly great sportsman who truly pushed the envelope. Bergkamp was a great player who just so happened to be a nice guy. His greatness is on the level of Rod Stewart... not David Bowie.

 

That's your opinion on it, but I think you're selling him very short there. Read Ramar's post about how he transformed Arsenal and read my post about him being nationally, internationally and criticially renowned. The fact that I'm talking so much about a player who played for a big rival team says it all.

 

Also, I don't personally believe any sportsman was ever significant towards making the world a better place, but I accept their greatness.

How can you express yourself with a ball??? The only thing someone can get out of it is that you're skilled in handling it... you can't watch a guy play and deduce "that guy really loves pasta!" If anything it's a form of intimist expression, and it's "expressive" greatness cannot be graded or perceived by outsiders.

 

But those words create meaning. The kicks may generate some happiness but are ultimately about as usefull/meaningfull as American Pie.

 

I made comparisons about the stadium being a Colosseum, because the players are our modern day warriors. But, I also made comparisons with dancing, and that is essentially what Pele brought to the sport. He played with a rhythm and movement that was not seen at that time. He had skill, grace, technique, confidence, charisma. He was expressive with the way he moved with the ball. Bergkamp also does this, but his expression is the way he moves the ball itself. The way he controls it, the way he can spot a perfect pass about a minute or so before he actually needs to play that pass.

 

Think of it like a game of chess, his footballing brain was so much quicker than almost anyone in the world. I say almost anyone because the only players I could compare him with are Zidane and Paul Scholes, but even then they're all different. They're expressive, but in different ways. I have never ever seen a better Volleyer of the ball than Scholes, and his expression is very much like a hunter preparing his arrows for the kill. He would line himself up (on the edge of the box), position himself in exactly the right place at exactly the right time, and would always find himself in acres of space.

 

Some of these legends were also very big leaders on the pitch. What was expressive was how they showed their passion for the game. Their passion for the fans. Seeing Gary Neville celebrate in front of our arch rival's fans is evidence of this, and again that links in to the tribal element of the sport. He celebrated because winning against that particular opposition means something that much more. Again, that's where the idea of Gladiators and a Colosseum comes into it...it sometimes is very much a warzone. Its fierce, and the most passionate sport on the planet.

 

The truth is that the only people who actually validate sports as worthy of such praise are the fans themselves, so it's like discussing with a Tokyo Hotel fan.

 

That's not entirely true. What about getting recognition from the media, or getting recognition from earlier players. Look at Pele's 100 list and there are so many greats there.

 

Of course they're geniuses, nobody's denying that. Much like every single musician on the Chinese National Orchestra is a genius. But not a single one of them is "Great". They changed nothing and their impact is virtually zero.

 

Thank you for acknowleding that they are geniuses.

But, I disagree with what you're saying about the impact being zero. How many people to this very day talk about that Van Basten Volley:

 

 

How many people still talk about the Hand of God? How many Germans are still pissed off with the way that England won the 1966 World Cup? Football history is also important History. Very important. It marks the successes of a nation, it shows what superb athletes, sportspeople and stars that each country has produced. It shows what humans can accomplish if they put their mind to it and if they persevere hard enough. During the 1999 Champions League Final, my initial thought was what a great accomplishment this is, for one team to win so many honours in one season and to rightfully earn their place in history.

 

Also, to all those who don't care about football, I really am sorry for hogging this thread.

You should see me watching it...I love it. Every second of it.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Fierce_LiNk

[chairdriver]

Mendeleev springs to mind. Although there were several chemists making leaps and bounds studying the properties of the elements, he gave us the periodic table, a true wonder to behold. It still leaves me awed when I think about it.

 

I want to Thank you, but I can't.

 

What's more impressive is that he correctly predicted loads of stuff about elements not yet discovered.

[ipaul]

Basically the sentiment was:

 

There's three people on this forum who stun consistently, and it's really obvious who they are.

 

I daren't speak their names, but when the crow knows, it knows.

 

Dan Dare is only one person though....isn't he? =P

[The fish]

Isaac Newton

 

 

His models of physics weren't perfect, but he got us to the freakin' moon. I'm just shocked he wasn't mentioned before.

[Retro_Link]

The fact football brings people together instantly makes it make the world a better place.

[MoogleViper]

How many Germans are still pissed off with the way that England won the 1966 World Cup?

 

Actually very few. The Germans don't see us as their main rivals. They're more interested in the Dutch.

[chairdriver]

The fact football brings people together instantly makes it make the world a better place.

 

Some of the people it brings together are hooligans, who stab people.

 

 

(Sorry, didn't mean to make that sound so cursory and downputting - I just don't really have anything other to say on the matter, so ended abruptly).

[Fierce_LiNk]

The fact football brings people together instantly makes it make the world a better place.

 

Yessss! I actually wanted to say that as well, but forgot. Too many things to think about.

 

I'm betting the Trion is:

 

Canand

Stuwii

Jive Talking Negros.

[MoogleViper]

Isaac Newton

 

 

His models of physics weren't perfect, but he got us to the freakin' moon. I'm just shocked he wasn't mentioned before.

 

He has been mentioned, but not in depth. Probably because every person in the country knows his name. The same can't be said for Gauss and others.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Actually very few. The Germans don't see us as their main rivals. They're more interested in the Dutch.

 

Quite a few are still a bit bitter about the way they lost though, aren't they? Although, I don't think the rivalry is quite as big as it was during the 1990s. Euro96 springs to mind.

[ipaul]

Yessss! I actually wanted to say that as well, but forgot. Too many things to think about.

 

I'm betting the Trion is:

 

Canand

Stuwii

Jive Talking Negros.

 

I was tempted to post that XD

[Goafer]

Yessss! I actually wanted to say that as well, but forgot. Too many things to think about.

 

I'm betting the Trion is:

 

Canand

Stuwii

Jive Talking Negros.

 

I like to think it's me, ReZ and a cleaner called Enrique. He speaks very little English (much like ReZ), but man can he clean a sofa (and the curtains, walls, fridge etc. You get the idea).

 

Enrique is also my nomination for a great person. He cleans well and knows how to keep a secret.

[MoogleViper]

Quite a few are still a bit bitter about the way they lost though, aren't they?

 

Not according to this legend of a man;

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

I was tempted to post that XD

 

Should've done eet.

 

I like to think it's me, ReZ and a cleaner called Enrique. He speaks very little English (much like ReZ), but man can he clean a sofa (and the curtains, walls, fridge etc. You get the idea).

 

Enrique is also my nomination for a great person. He cleans well and knows how to keep a secret.

 

Is Enrique your love child from your relationship with Rez?

 

Not according to this legend of a man;

 

Haha, ok. I just remember watching quite a few programs in the programs in the past where the Germans were clearly quite bitter about it. But, maybe they've let go now.

[chairdriver]

He has been mentioned, but not in depth. Probably because every person in the country knows his name. The same can't be said for Gauss and others.

 

Yeah, I hadn't heard of Gauss before I started reading for my uni application. And then he literally featured too much in every book I read.

 

It's literally like "Oh yeah, Gauss proved this too.", or "Gauss wrote about this in a letter to his friend, where he mentions that he has a proof, however he doesn't publish it, and it gets proved 50 years later".

 

 

Having done a module in Dynamics, I'm crying Newton's name every night before I go to bed.

[MoogleViper]

I'm crying Newton's name every night before I go to bed.

 

10char

[Retro_Link]

Edited February 23, 2010 by Retro_Link

[Paj!]

RE: football.

 

Passion + Skill at the game does not equal expression. It's just great passion and skill. IMO

 

I'll say no more because I know nothing about professional football.

[MoogleViper]

Much like the use of the word genius in the media, I feel the word great in this thread has been very diluted and lost a lot of meaning.

[chairdriver]

Much like the use of the word genius in the media, I feel the word great in this thread has been very diluted and lost a lot of meaning.

 

I like magnus as a word, because it feels big.

 

I'm going to coin it as my new word.

[MoogleViper]

I like magnus as a word, because it feels big.

 

I'm going to coin it as my new word.

 

When I hear it all I think of is;

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

RE: football.

 

Passion + Skill at the game does not equal expression. It's just great passion and skill. IMO

 

I'll say no more because I know nothing about professional football.

 

I know. Hence why I have repeatedly said that there players are much more than just skillful players. The top tier of English, Spanish and Italian football is made up of skillful players, who are passionate. But, there are only a few who are the true standout players who will be remembered for years to come. The ones going against the grain.

 

That is why I agreed with Ramar's original post. Anyone who knows what they're talking about will know that Bergkamp has helped change the English (and Worldwide, for that matter) perception of football. He was a magician with the ball. He could literally do everything that could be done, and more. For a player to possess all of what he had is more than enough to consider him a legend of the game. What's more, when he played, you could feel his energy, and you were always watching something special. Some players play for the fame, but he played for his heart and his head.

 

I don't think my posts serve much use to anyone apart from the ones who like the sport. There's quite a few people who don't, so all you are going to see are men running around chasing a ball. My advice would be to give the game a chance. Read up on the legends of the game, watch some of the classic games, and maybe you'll see something you haven't seen before.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Fierce_LiNk

[Paj!]

Moogle's pic

 

He went to our school. [/factoid]

[chairdriver]

When I hear it all I think of is;

 

 

Another Jesus College alumnus!

 

He went to our school. [/factoid]

 

Did he?

 

Wow, I followed him directly in life! Maybe I'll end up hosting a game-show when I grow up?