Guest Captain Falcon Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Why can't clothes be art? Please define 'art' for me. You may appreciate it for just that but if you think that's the only level to it then that is ignorance. Choosing to only acknowledge that level is different though. Art is whatever the audience sees it as and consequently is indefinable in nature. So since I've just completely shot down my point that you quoted, I'll make a hasty retraction of my statement and say that I don't consider it art. The point I was trying to get at is that you can't be expected to fully understand how everything works and that we shouldn't think ourselves better people for having a greater knowledge of something than others - or for the fact we question it in the first place. You comment about how people dress like walking shop advertisements and you judge them because of this just seemed a little unfair for my tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Dare Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 art is a means of expression. Materials and form are immaterial, ergo Fashion is art as much as the Romantics or Surrealists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I went to the pub quiz tonight, and my trousers were complimented THREE times (by three different people) (They are the famous ones - gray with stripes, and upturned bottoms). Also my socks (black and cyan blue chequered) were commented upon, and my choice of underwear (!). I loved that the general consensus was that I was the best dressed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tellyn Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Damn it! I read the title as CTU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 My wardrobe mostly consists of the same clothes I had when I was still in college. I have jeans and t-shirts covered in paint from summer jobs, I have blim-burns in nearly all my t-shirts. I would say, in general, I'm the same person I was all those years ago too, but this year I want to buy more shirts! I would say that clothes do reflect who you are to some extent. Be it conscious or unconscious, you do select what you put on in the morning even to the extent where you may seek out one t-shirt or another and, to your dismay, find it has jam down the front so you have to settle for a 2nd-tier tee. I always feel weird when I first get new clothes. There is a 'hoodie' that I've worn when I've met pretty much everyone (the tartan-ish brown/yellowish one) that, when I first got it, I felt embarassed to wear, and now it's my favourite item of clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmm, on that sense, I think you're right. But, do the Daily Mail and The Sun reflect all or even most people? I'd say no. I think there is a danger of just overthinking sometimes. For example, are we overthinking this conversation right now? What does it come down to? To me, it's down to "What do I want to wear today?" For you, maybe that question is different. I think it is indicative of hoe the majority of people approach decision in their life. The reason I brought it up, the reason I ever say anything really, is just to try and give a different view point. It's nothing to do with me how anyone here does anything. I just think that a lot of people totally miss what is right in front of them and that is a shame because there can be a lot of value there. Don't you ever wonder why or how fashion designers design clothes? Likewise, I used to wonder how someone could be interested in watching 22 blokes chase a ball round a field. I am now a massive football fan. I wonder about the intrinsic value in a lot of things now and it really is amazing what can suddenly interest you. I think it is a shame to surrender that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I went to the pub quiz tonight, and my trousers were complimented THREE times (by three different people) (They are the famous ones - gray with stripes, and upturned bottoms). Also my socks (black and cyan blue chequered) were commented upon, and my choice of underwear (!). I loved that the general consensus was that I was the best dressed there. Jesus Fuck, you had three different items of clothing commented on, at a pub. A pub quiz. I went into a pub wearing a Slimer (from Ghostbusters) T-shirt, and got a few weird looks. I knew I should have changed before going out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Art is whatever the audience sees it as and consequently is indefinable in nature. So since I've just completely shot down my point that you quoted, I'll make a hasty retraction of my statement and say that I don't consider it art. The point I was trying to get at is that you can't be expected to fully understand how everything works and that we shouldn't think ourselves better people for having a greater knowledge of something than others - or for the fact we question it in the first place. You comment about how people dress like walking shop advertisements and you judge them because of this just seemed a little unfair for my tastes. Personally, it's not going to effect me what someone else thinks. I feel that I've bettered myself when I understand, and value, something more. Simply because I enjoy it more. I don't put people down for wearing what they wear. It may have sounded like it but if someone enjoys something then so be it. (Same reason why I don't like atheists who have a go at Christians. If believing in God makes their life better, what is the harm?) I have the more general though when I see the hoards of Topmen on Oxford Street, 'Why have you made that choice?' It's more a musing but I do feel that people are missing out because things, like clothing, are so easily presented to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Falcon Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Likewise, I used to wonder how someone could be interested in watching 22 blokes chase a ball round a field. I am now a massive football fan. So since you've been converted, do you now wonder why people aren't interested in football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Personally, it's not going to effect me what someone else thinks. I feel that I've bettered myself when I understand, and value, something more. Simply because I enjoy it more. We'll just stick with the ideas of clothes, for now. When I'm shopping, I must admit that I don't really think too much about what this particular item symbolises. With the Animal T-shirt, I looked at it, knew how much I loved Animal, thought it would suit me, so bought it. It was dead cheap, too, so it was a no brainer. But, I pretty much repeat that process with a lot of the clothes that I buy. I know what works for me. So, I don't really know what this means, in relation to your point. But, that's my own view on it. It's good to understand things, but I think it's sometimes more important to know yourself, and know how you work. When it comes to personal decisions anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I like wearing interesting things, because I think I'm boring enough to look at without having something else nice to look at. I have lots of striking t-shirts, with interesting designs, pictures or in some cases effects (irredescence.rainbow is the best I can describe a few!). I mostly just wear my black "skinny" (not on me) jeans and a fleece of some description. Occasionaly, I'll wear an open shirt over a t-shirt instead. People do comment on some of the stuff I wear, which is always nice. But I don't seek that out. I do dislike the idea that buying exclusively from Abercrombie & Fitch or Jack Wills makes you (look) cool though. Often the people that do so are perfectly nice, but I really dislike that. We all know a plain t-shirt isn't worth £80, so why are you spending that much on it? etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 So since you've been converted, do you now wonder why people aren't interested in football? I would think people aren't interested in football because it isn't relevant to them or their lives. I may be wrong, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I would think people aren't interested in football because it isn't relevant to them or their lives. I may be wrong, of course. A lovely response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) I went to the pub quiz tonight, and my trousers were complimented THREE times (by three different people) (They are the famous ones - gray with stripes, and upturned bottoms). Also my socks (black and cyan blue chequered) were commented upon, and my choice of underwear (!). I loved that the general consensus was that I was the best dressed there. What pub are you going to? Last time (last but one actually thinking about it) I went to a pub quiz it was full of elderly people (although I did end up wearing a hello kitty beanie which got some looks :p). Although I do love that when I go to my mother's work I now get asked what underwear im wearing. In fact if nothing else I put effort into having interesting underwear more than outerwear. The reason I used to go to Topman (I haven't really bought any clothes other than my Lazy Oaf hoody) lately is because of the size issue. Deindividualisation or not they're generally the cheapest place I can find stuff my size. In terms of chosing what to wear on a day by day basis I tend to go for colour mostly (and normally its bright). What kind of mood I want to give from that, colour rather than brand. Im not sure if any of this is really discussing issues raised or me just thinking outloud. But yeah the basic crux is; im skinny, broke and like bright colours and don't really care about the politics of fashion. Edited March 16, 2009 by Ashley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Jesus Fuck, you had three different items of clothing commented on, at a pub. A pub quiz. Bear in mind I have jokes to tell. And it's a really posh pub (in Morningside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We'll just stick with the ideas of clothes, for now. When I'm shopping, I must admit that I don't really think too much about what this particular item symbolises. With the Animal T-shirt, I looked at it, knew how much I loved Animal, thought it would suit me, so bought it. It was dead cheap, too, so it was a no brainer. But, I pretty much repeat that process with a lot of the clothes that I buy. I know what works for me. So, I don't really know what this means, in relation to your point. But, that's my own view on it. It's good to understand things, but I think it's sometimes more important to know yourself, and know how you work. When it comes to personal decisions anyway. But why not shop around? Look at a wider range, a different label, a different style, something a little pricier? You may think you know yourself, and you right might, I can't say, but unless you move outside you're comfort zone, so to speak, you're never going to really explore what you can be, or what is on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I get most of my clothes from Primark, TK Maxx and H&M. TK Maxx is excellent. It takes a long time to find anything decent, but when you do, it is assured you'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 But why not shop around? Look at a wider range, a different label, a different style, something a little pricier? You may think you know yourself, and you right might, I can't say, but unless you move outside you're comfort zone, so to speak, you're never going to really explore what you can be, or what is on offer. You've seen my town. Topman. H&M. River Island. One or two of those shops like Cult or something that I've never seen anything I like in. Yes im aware theres internet shopping but it kinda takes the (minor) joy out of it all. At this very moment I've gone off fashion. The discussion earlier did make me look at hellomerch and theres some stuff I like on there, and on Lazy Oaf but until I have the money to spend on clothes I won't bother teasing myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Dare Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I really wish I could afford nicer clothes. I have my moments, but it's hard to look particularly good in £10 Tees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) I get lots of stuff from New Look. It's got a very cheap men's dept. No one seem to realise it exists and sells interesting/good stuff. This is lovely, for example; or this £10 each... Edited March 16, 2009 by Paj! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I get lots of stuff from New Look. It's got a very cheap men's dept. No one seem to realise it exists and sells interesting/good stuff. Quoted. All my interesting socks come from New Look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Dare Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 they sell mens clothes? .... huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 But why not shop around? Look at a wider range, a different label, a different style, something a little pricier? You may think you know yourself, and you right might, I can't say, but unless you move outside you're comfort zone, so to speak, you're never going to really explore what you can be, or what is on offer. I do shop around, and this wasn't an item that I had gone out to search for. I was literally walking through town, the day before I went to Paris (Disneyland, to meet Ine) and I saw it. In relation to the rest of the clothes that I wear, this is different. I think I mentioned earlier that I like wearing shirts, so this is quite different to begin with. I'm skint, so it's rare that I'll go out and spend 30 quid on a shirt or something. It has happened in the past, but I haven't bought anything for a while. I'll go shopping with another person, too, and get their opinion on different things, or ask them to "Dress the Jim" which is a fun game we play, haha. So, I have bought things many a time which I never thought would work, but do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 they sell mens clothes? .... huh. A really well kept secret, kept by those guys with 12 year old sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Dare Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 sunsabitches! I have a feeling the Sheffield store is sans mens dept. Perhaps I'll check tomorrow while I'm in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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