Rick Dangerous Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 But it seems bloody obvious that if you don't have anything to hide then why would you care about ID cards and CCTV? It's a pretty bullet-proof argument. Oh yeah, we wouldn't want CCTV - that might catch someone trying to kill you on a night out in town. Except twice when I had my bikes stolen they did not help despite being in direct view of cameras. Also the time I was mugged they didnt help then. CCTV tends to move crime to the area where is isnt around than prevent it seems like a waste of money to me. Criminals will always find a way round the security features on ID. But how does this know the location? I think you're all over estimating the capabilities of this thing, I don't think its capable of pinpointing exactly, especially in Europe since its illegal for communication companies to give the location of they're clients even to authorities. You will be suprised you can track your location pretty well through just your mobile phone signal. Something like within 10 metres if my memory serves me correctly(I did a design project a while a ago), though this depends on the number of cells in the local area. GPS is even more accurate but I dont know much about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shino Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 But that's just it, I could swear that information isn't allowed to third parties in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Except twice when I had my bikes stolen they did not help despite being in direct view of cameras. Also the time I was mugged they didnt help then. CCTV tends to move crime to the area where is isnt around than prevent it seems like a waste of money to me. Criminals will always find a way round the security features on ID. So it didn't help you, but it didn't hinder you. Considering CCTV is in loads of places that you'd expect to be mugged at, isn't it good to push people who'd commit crimes there away from those places? There's no doubt that CCTV has helped track the movement of killers after they commit a crime, sometimes bringing them to justice. You can be indifferent to CCTV but against it? Surely the only real people against CCTV are the chavs stealing handbags and bikes themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 But that's just it, I could swear that information isn't allowed to third parties in Europe. I would imagine there would be disclaimers in the T&C's to state that you are allowing that nature of information to be passed on. afaik: phone companies can track as much as your postcode. which is pretty specific! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 But how does this know the location? I think you're all over estimating the capabilities of this thing, I don't think its capable of pinpointing exactly, especially in Europe since its illegal for communication companies to give the location of they're clients even to authorities. I understand how it can be worrying for people to be tracked every minute by a major company, even if its google. But the phone doesn't just automatically track you. You need to install the app, and by doing that, surely you're agreeing that you want to use this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shino Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You both don't get it, not even the police is allowed that information (big brother, etc..). I wish I could find any info on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You also have to remember the laws are different in other regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You both don't get it, not even the police is allowed that information (big brother, etc..). I wish I could find any info on it. I'm fairly sure that the police could if they asked, and the person they were tracking could back out whenever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You both don't get it, not even the police is allowed that information (big brother, etc..). I wish I could find any info on it. My dad was on a murder trial where a piece of evidence in the case was a mobile phone record where they had a length of call, caller and the cell area where the alleged murder took place. http://www.textually.org/textually/archives/2005/09/010029.htm -Its a few years old but I doubt they have changed the law. So it didn't help you, but it didn't hinder you. Considering CCTV is in loads of places that you'd expect to be mugged at, isn't it good to push people who'd commit crimes there away from those places? There's no doubt that CCTV has helped track the movement of killers after they commit a crime, sometimes bringing them to justice. You can be indifferent to CCTV but against it? Surely the only real people against CCTV are the chavs stealing handbags and bikes themselves. Though as I said earlier it will just move the crime round the corner. Its like pluging a leak and have it spring up else where. I would rather have more policemen on the streets than CCTV. In some circumstances CCTV is justified but the UK has more CCTV than anywhere on earth and yet my local town is installing more cameras when there is next to no crime to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 My dad was on a murder trial where a piece of evidence in the case was a mobile phone record where they had a length of call, caller and the cell area where the alleged murder took place. http://www.textually.org/textually/archives/2005/09/010029.htm -Its a few years old but I doubt they have changed the law. Though as I said earlier it will just move the crime round the corner. Its like pluging a leak and have it spring up else where. I would rather have more policemen on the streets than CCTV. In some circumstances CCTV is justified but the UK has more CCTV than anywhere on earth and yet my local town is installing more cameras when there is next to no crime to begin with. Funds are limited, police cost a lot and CCTV doesnt. Atleast compared to police. It makes me feel safer knowing someone is watching me when im out somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Are the cameras hidden at all in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Are the cameras hidden at all in the UK? Nope, never noticed any hidden ones. They are EVERYWHERE, which is good in my oppinion. We even have them on busses. Some are in protective black domes, but they can still be identified as cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Most of the CCTV's I've seen are around police stations (pretty commonplace in northern Ireland - they are still like fortresses from the troubles) and in shops. Afaik, the police can gain info like that, but not willy nilly, they have to get warrants for that kind of info, just like they need to search someone's house. I'd be more worried about hacks, if the database/server that the info was stored on wasn't secured enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Funds are limited, police cost a lot and CCTV doesnt.Atleast compared to police. It makes me feel safer knowing someone is watching me when im out somewhere. I was quite suprised at how much it costs actually they are putting it in my town and they quoted £80,000 and £15,000 per year for 5 cameras. For that you could employ a policeman for atleast 4 years I reckon. The cameras will last longer for the money but atleast policemen could help prevent crime via education etc. Are the cameras hidden at all in the UK? How do we know they are there? They are hidden You do get the ones behind mirrored glass etc but you know they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 How do we know they are there? They are hidden You do get the ones behind mirrored glass etc but you know they are there. Do they not talk about stuff like that on the news. If there's something like hidden cameras going up in my city. They tell the people. They wouldn't be that useful if they didn't. For the most part, don't cameras prevent more crimes than they solve. If I was a criminal, and I knew there were cameras around, I would be more likely to not commit a crime than look for the cameras and then commit it when I was sure there weren't any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Do they not talk about stuff like that on the news. If there's something like hidden cameras going up in my city. They tell the people. They wouldn't be that useful if they didn't. For the most part, don't cameras prevent more crimes than they solve. If I was a criminal, and I knew there were cameras around, I would be more likely to not commit a crime than look for the cameras and then commit it when I was sure there weren't any. Then what would be the point in hiding them in the first place? And no they aren't hidden. There are usually plenty of signs warning of CCTV in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 I was quite suprised at how much it costs actually they are putting it in my town and they quoted £80,000 and £15,000 per year for 5 cameras. For that you could employ a policeman for atleast 4 years I reckon. The cameras will last longer for the money but atleast policemen could help prevent crime via education etc. How do we know they are there? They are hidden You do get the ones behind mirrored glass etc but you know they are there. You do realise how much a police officers basic salary is? £20k before training is complete, you can be on £32k with just being a basic Constable. That is the South Yorkshire Police. The cameras are always there, recording proof, and they never sleep. Do they not talk about stuff like that on the news. If there's something like hidden cameras going up in my city. They tell the people. They wouldn't be that useful if they didn't. For the most part, don't cameras prevent more crimes than they solve. If I was a criminal, and I knew there were cameras around, I would be more likely to not commit a crime than look for the cameras and then commit it when I was sure there weren't any. They don't hide them, that would be pointless as a deturent. They are sign posted, and they may move trouble along but thats better than it being every where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 If you know there are cameras but don't know where they are, you don't know if you're on camera, so you don't know if its safe to commit the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 If you know there are cameras but don't know where they are, you don't know if you're on camera, so you don't know if its safe to commit the crime. It doesn't work like that. People just wouldn't care and would take the risk. Whereas if they know it's there then they won't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 No, I'm saying if they know there is one in the immediate area, they just don't know exactly where its pointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 No, I'm saying if they know there is one in the immediate area, they just don't know exactly where its pointing. Oh right. Yeah they don't tell you the exact location just "CCTV operates in this area." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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