MoogleViper Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 It's because it's not much of a treat any more. It's nothing special. It's the same with other things. I don't get excited anymore *insert impotence related joke*. I don't get excited for my birthday, holidays christmas etc. When I was a kid I used to get excited for those things for months in advance. The night before we went on holiday or christmas eve seemed to last about a year. Now months go by in a flash.
Grazza Posted June 14, 2008 Posted June 14, 2008 I didn't agree with as many of those points as I thought I would, actually (in the original article). Yeah, there was nothing like owning a Megadrive, and then the excitement of the early polygon games (Star Fox, Star Blade, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing), but I honestly believe better technology allows better games. My favourite game is from this decade - Wind Waker. For me the main thing that has changed is what types of game are appreciated. When I was at school and we all had SNES and Megadrives, there was a true appreciation of the best games, like Zelda and Landstalker. Enter the PlayStation, and people would argue with me that Tekken, Ridge Racer and Time Crisis were better than their Sega equivalents, which I disagreed with. You couldn't argue with them though, because of the marketing. PlayStation was trendy. Today, all my colleagues spend their evenings on Xbox Live, on Call Of Duty 4 and such. They tell me to my face things like "There are no good games on Wii", "Zelda is poor" and "There has never been a good Metroid game". You can't really argue with ignorance like that!
Sheikah Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Yeah too much information completly ruins gaming, that's why I try not to read too much about games, asides from the essential and what I have to know to write for the site. It's a shame people can't play with the eyes of a child anymore, always worried about pointless and useless things, overanalyzing every game, demanding this and that, instead of just enjoying something that's fun, worrying more about postin about games than playing them. I am happy that I have somewhat retained some perspective, but it isn't the same as before, some things got better, others not really it's just not as magical Exactly the same for me...when playing as a child, the lack of familiarity with games, combined with the fact I could only get one every so often, made me appreciate them that much more. I never feel about games like I do then, now. I used to go bonkers over Banjo Kazooie, Zelda OOT + MM and Final Fantasies. Now they're just games. :/
sagat Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 A great article for us oldies HERE Who agrees...I do. You know why it was great in my case? sometimes i would lend my treasured SNES cart to someone. He will lend it to the next guy, and the guy does the same and it goes round in circles. When i visit a friends house i will see my game in there and when i ask him how he got it he would say "i borrowed it from a friend" I can't take it straight away and some times wait months to get back to me.. This happened a few times
darkjak Posted August 2, 2008 Posted August 2, 2008 I have to dissagree about most of that. The durability point was the only one I liked. Modern games are way to short. Anything under 10 hours is a scam IMO. Especially when he complains about there being great games every month is annoying. It's a valid point that games have more advanced controls nowadays, and it's great that the Wii lets you play the same advanced games with fewer buttons.
Shorty Posted August 2, 2008 Posted August 2, 2008 They missed the most important thing: no save functions. Sonic and Mario were amazing because when you died, you really lost it all. You didn't load back to the last checkpoint or the beginning of the level, you lost a life, and after a couple more mishaps, you had to start again from the beginning. Many games you never finished simply because they were too hard, which is rare these days. They've even added saves to the Virtual Console and XBLA, on games that originally never had them. Sonic 2 is nowhere near as good on the XBLA because you can save it whenever you like.
darkjak Posted August 2, 2008 Posted August 2, 2008 They missed the most important thing: no save functions. Sonic and Mario were amazing because when you died, you really lost it all. You didn't load back to the last checkpoint or the beginning of the level, you lost a life, and after a couple more mishaps, you had to start again from the beginning. Many games you never finished simply because they were too hard, which is rare these days. They've even added saves to the Virtual Console and XBLA, on games that originally never had them. Sonic 2 is nowhere near as good on the XBLA because you can save it whenever you like. The save type your referring to can't really count as a save. If you load the save and die, then the save remembers that you've died, sending you back to the beginning. It just makes you not have to play through the entire game in one sitting.
Shorty Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 Eh? you can save Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on XBLA right before you start a boss, if you fail the boss, you can load the save from right there and try again, with all your lives. You can even save half way through a boss, when you've got 4/8 hits in, and if you die, resume from there. You can save at any point... even during a special stage, so you can try over and over til you get the emerald. But even the type of save you're referring to, one that means you don't have to play in one sitting? That really takes away from the experience for me too. You just don't put as much effort in or care as much when you know you can do a bit today and the rest next week.
Grazza Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 Sonic 2 was far too long, though, to play in one sitting. I remember once I played it for about 3 hours and still didn't get to the end. It just wasn't enjoyable.
darkjak Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 Eh? you can save Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on XBLA right before you start a boss, if you fail the boss, you can load the save from right there and try again, with all your lives. You can even save half way through a boss, when you've got 4/8 hits in, and if you die, resume from there. You can save at any point... even during a special stage, so you can try over and over til you get the emerald. But even the type of save you're referring to, one that means you don't have to play in one sitting? That really takes away from the experience for me too. You just don't put as much effort in or care as much when you know you can do a bit today and the rest next week. Well I can just say that when I was little, my mum used to practicaly go ballistic when I sat down and played a game for over two hours straight, and nowadays when I'm at the university, and in the future when I'll have a job, and even farther down the line when I'll have a wife and maybe kids, I'll have less and less time to play. This summer I haven't played much at all, even though I've had plenty of time. I've got a car I'm fixing up, I'm working on a mod and so on. Forcing the player to play through a fairly long game in one sitting is a joke. It works for people with plenty of time on their hands AND have noone to nag at ya. In other words, the unemployed. Should Nintendo and the rest focus on the minority of unemployed, or focus on the majority of working, studying and children? Of course a few gamers arent unemployed and yet still try to finish these games. But the savesystem I talked bout before helps a lot of people. Plus that if you want to play through the game in one sitting, you can do just that.
tapedeck Posted August 4, 2008 Author Posted August 4, 2008 Back in the day those poor saves were due to a limit in technology. Sonic 3 cost £60 because it had a small amount of non-volatile RAM built into the cart (basically you could turn off the title and it would save your whereabouts). The SNES did this far more though but it was still costly. But I think it was primarily because many developers were stuck in the 80's still offering passwords as saves. Sonic could have done with a password system imo. Is it any wonder the cheats for Sonic 1 and 2 were so famous?!
Grazza Posted August 4, 2008 Posted August 4, 2008 Is it any wonder the cheats for Sonic 1 and 2 were so famous?! Up, down, left, right, A, B, C + Start! (Or something like that.) Sonic 2 is my least favourite of the series because I could never get the Chaos Emeralds. Couldn't then, still can't. I can get them all in Sonic 1, 3 + Knuckles, but I just don't have fast enough reactions for Sonic 2's "mini-game"! Thanks to Sonic Mega Collection, I have finally been "Super Sonic" in Sonic 3 + Knuckles, so I'm over it now!
mcj metroid Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 Up, down, left, right, A, B, C + Start! (Or something like that.) Sonic 2 is my least favourite of the series because I could never get the Chaos Emeralds. Couldn't then, still can't. I can get them all in Sonic 1, 3 + Knuckles, but I just don't have fast enough reactions for Sonic 2's "mini-game"! Thanks to Sonic Mega Collection, I have finally been "Super Sonic" in Sonic 3 + Knuckles, so I'm over it now! it's the best sonic game of all time man
Goron_3 Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 it's the best sonic game of all time man Sonic 2? ha. It's cool but has some of the worst levels of the series and some boring music; Sonic 3&K was just perfect, got a good mix of everything and added some new changes (like how act 1 and act 2 now link on from one another, Act 1 now has bosses, act 2 music is a remix of the first music...oh and the storylines and alternate bosses... ). That said, Sonic 2 is probably the best sequel ever.
McMad Posted August 7, 2008 Posted August 7, 2008 All I remember about Sonic 2 is Chemical Plant Zone. But damn, the music of that stage alone is enough to make the entire game the best Sonic ever.
Sheikah Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 Sonic 2? ha. It's cool but has some of the worst levels of the series and some boring music; Sonic 3&K was just perfect, got a good mix of everything and added some new changes (like how act 1 and act 2 now link on from one another, Act 1 now has bosses, act 2 music is a remix of the first music...oh and the storylines and alternate bosses... ). That said, Sonic 2 is probably the best sequel ever. Have to disagree, IMO Sonic 2 was probably the best Sonic ever made. After Sonic 2 the levels were cluttered and had many objects you had to interact with to progress, which was stupid. You had vines and the odd lift in Sonic 2, but the games after that felt like you were always having to tug or hoist onto something. Also, the level design wasn't as good. Emerald Hill, Aquatic Zone and the casino were all classics. Sonic 2 ftw.
tapedeck Posted August 8, 2008 Author Posted August 8, 2008 I actually loved the Master System Sonic 1...it was just soooo special and had so much heart. Eagerly await its arrival on the VC... Made at a time when SEGA could actually make "slower" Sonic games with explorative elements, it was a treat. I loved the singing at the end of the game too...well, miming! I even bought it on the Game Gear so I could play it wherever I wanted (with a plug handy or 500+ batteries spare of course!) Sonic 1 (Master System AND MD version) ftw.
Grazza Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 Made at a time when SEGA could actually make "slower" Sonic games with explorative elements, it was a treat. I loved the singing at the end of the game too...well, miming! I even bought it on the Game Gear so I could play it wherever I wanted (with a plug handy or 500+ batteries spare of course!) Sonic 1 (Master System AND MD version) ftw. Couldn't agree more! Well, I must admit I never played the Master System or Game Gear versions, but the original on Mega Drive is by far my favourite. I know it inside out! And yes, Sonic is not just about speed (or stunts). It was about having the time to find the best routes and hidden nooks and crannies. Also, the visuals and music were very charming. I can remember every Zone (and accompanying music) in the original game, yet I can't remember anything about the Zones in any other Sonic game. I can understand why people like Sonic 2, as that's really as far as the series got whilst retaining its feel. It was just too long and difficult for me, overall.
tapedeck Posted August 9, 2008 Author Posted August 9, 2008 Couldn't agree more! Well, I must admit I never played the Master System or Game Gear versions, but the original on Mega Drive is by far my favourite. I know it inside out! And yes, Sonic is not just about speed (or stunts). It was about having the time to find the best routes and hidden nooks and crannies. Also, the visuals and music were very charming. I can remember every Zone (and accompanying music) in the original game, yet I can't remember anything about the Zones in any other Sonic game. I can understand why people like Sonic 2, as that's really as far as the series got whilst retaining its feel. It was just too long and difficult for me, overall. I couldn't agree more. The original (and 2 to some degree) seems to have a happy green and checkerboard charm about it. Infact, Sonic 1 is heavily stylised throughout whereas 2 goes into the industrial format much more. I also feel Sonic2 has a bit much going on at times. The spin dash/co-op and Tails make it incredible though. You should hunt down the MS/GG versions of Sonic 1 as they are really charming.
mcj metroid Posted August 9, 2008 Posted August 9, 2008 Sonic 2? ha. It's cool but has some of the worst levels of the series and some boring music; Sonic 3&K was just perfect, got a good mix of everything and added some new changes (like how act 1 and act 2 now link on from one another, Act 1 now has bosses, act 2 music is a remix of the first music...oh and the storylines and alternate bosses... ). That said, Sonic 2 is probably the best sequel ever. sonic 3 and k was 2 games!!!!!!!!!!! i prefer 2 for the kick ass 2 player mode which was terrible in the third
Goron_3 Posted August 9, 2008 Posted August 9, 2008 sonic 3 and k was 2 games!!!!!!!!!!! i prefer 2 for the kick ass 2 player mode which was terrible in the third Sonic 3&K was 1 game. You could only play the full game by putting Sonic 2 into the lock on slot on sonic and knuckles. It does require two games to play but the whole point is that it's one full adventure and you need to put the cartridges together to play it, hence why the story and levels continue into the second game. Theres no point of just playing sonic 3 or just S&K on their own really. Also, have to disagree with whoever said that Sonic 2 had better level design. Most of the levels were terribly short. The only exception was Metropolis which was cool but abit of a pain. Sonic &K had MASSIVE levels and the level design was just amazing, especially when you go back and play the sonic 3 levels and realise how some of the paths created are JUST for Knuckles (remember S&K came out after Sonic 3); it really shows how much effort went into it. One thing i did like about sonic 2 is how it tried to do alternate pathways, but still they were faily limited and levels like Hill Top were especially linear (infact Chemical Plant was too at times). As a standalone adventure, Sonic 2 is better than Sonic 3 and also better than Sonic & Knuckles, however Sonic 3&K really shows how creative you can be if you put your mind to it. Oh, and just for the record, the final boss on Sonic 2 is awful
tapedeck Posted August 10, 2008 Author Posted August 10, 2008 My entire (uncut!) thoughts on the Megadrive (or Genesis) Sonic series... Sonic 1. The template for Sonics world will never be bested. (Although spindashing would have been nice from the off.) Sonic 1 was the template, the original, the idea in it's purest form. One good animal with attitude against a bad guy who had turned the good guys friend (and thus his world) into mechanical monstrosities. Set amongst a backdop so unique and lush then tipping it into a cold, industrialised arena juxtaposed everything nicely. It's definately of it's time with the emeralds only acting as "completionist" elements and a play it in one sitting element. Sonic 2. Then Sonic got the cute sidekick who showed a "cute" determination of his own. Thus endearing both Sonic as even more awesome and Tails as what can best be described as "awwww". The spin dash sped things up and made levels taller/wider/faster - more of a rollercoaster at times. The two of them battling Dr Robotnick was epic and even sat vaguely within the original titles setting - even if the levels took a more expanded view of the "Mobius" planet. And the super Sonic idea was an excellent move - making Sonic seem "WTF! INCREDULOUS! Awesome!" and giving more reason to collect the emeralds. Sonic 3 was a reinvention. A new "chubbier" Sonic, tails being more important to gameplay (the boss in the air with tails holding Sonic comes to mind). A longer quest (thank the saving!) with multiple routes and even a new character "Knuckles" came. Knuckles was (again) a nice move seeming like a great alternative to the attitude of Sonic with one of his own. I personally felt he diluted Sonic's awesome-ness somewhat but the mystery of the character, his moveset/design and the way in which his story unfolds in Sonic 3(and into S&K) is handled very well. After that...I personally lost interest. S&K certainly brought about some excellent lock-on features and the title (on its own) was a good, solid outing. But the lack of "Green Hill" areas (the backdrop of what Sonic and his world should always be set against) was gone. With mushrooms and vines holding you back the ideas were certainly there, yet the impact of everything had long since waned. Actually, gone since Sonic 2 in my opinion. The core idea of Dr Eggman/Robotnick (whatever) turning Sonics world into a mechanical, cruel alien-like world to something like a mere "hedgehog" is what the Sonic universe should always be about. Mario doesn't really divert from the "save the princess" or when it does it loses something - even not playing in the Mushroom Kingdom feels wrong. Sonic had the setting. It had the colours, the story, the means to play. But SEGA let the mascots "attitude" go to their head. SEGA forgot about the charm. They forgot that Sonic was just a hedgehog saving his friends.
darkjak Posted August 10, 2008 Posted August 10, 2008 Can we go back on topic now? If you want to talk about which sonic is best, create a sonic thread.
Tyson Posted August 11, 2008 Posted August 11, 2008 Can we go back on topic now? If you want to talk about which sonic is best, create a sonic thread. To be fair, Sonic pretty much symbolizes everything the nineties stood for in the gaming world, and how it began to go wrong with the dawn of the new millenium and the end of the era of 2D. I mean, Sonic entered the gaming market at the beggining of the decade as a new and exciting franchise, a completely credible marketing catapult to be used to launch Sega ahead of the competition, then they somehow reach their peak in 1994 with Sonic 3, managed to maintain the games credibility for a few years by not releasing anything new for the full cycle of the Saturn, before fucking the series completely in one fell swoop on the dreamcast, and continuing to do so to this day. So, Sonic has almost become synonymous with the decline of videogaming from the start of the 90's to the modern day. I shouldn't type on the Wii, it takes forever.
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