The Conduit

[mcj metroid]

When did I say controls are EVERYTHING? I played and loved Bioshock and more!! I'm just saying controls are extremely important for me, more important than better graphics.

 

Also, online is getting better, the only thing really lacking is voice chat and thats fixed now. I don't see what The Conduit isn't doing that your beloved 360 does so much better! Maybe more modes and DLC; but I aint that bothered, the actual online is going to be amazing I'm sure. CoD is now on the Wii!!

 

Also, Red Steel did 4 player split screen and it was great fun!

 

It's just after Wiimote, the control pads just feel horrible!

I said you are basing everything on controls... at least in this scenario.Im sure you dont in general.

 

wii controls are better yes from the good games we have seen. but its the ONLY thing thats better... most people enjoy dual analogue playing,just look at how popular the genre is on 360. More modes and dlc keeps the game going twice longer at most. so better graphics,longer playability,better sound,hd,better on-line,downloadable content...... the wii only has better and only arguably controls(for the moment until proven futher).

 

IM not saying the wii shouln't do fps games.. it should but this is clearly not what the wii was made for.. it's not it's strength. Wii is made for games like wii sports whether you like it or not.

 

 

red steel was good for it's time but cack now... I knew someone would bring it up though

[Hellfire]

but with your great wii controls you have to compinsate for a lot... mediocre on-line,worse graphics, no patch system,no downloadable content etc etc etc... is it worth it?

 

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: not everyone cares that much about online and things have been getting better, same about graphics, patch system is something that's used as an excuse to be able to launch defective games, dlc also possible on Wii, mostly another excuse to be able to launch incomplete games and suck out out money, etc etc ... :P

And even if it weren't like that... to me, controls are very very important, specially when compared to those things which hold little importance. You have to realise the things you're saying are highly subjective and now that developers are paying more attention to Wii, specially FPS wise the differences are becoming smaller and smaller.

 

Also, Metroid had no control problems. You're doing it wrong.

[Emasher]

Controls effect gameplay quite a bit. Things like graphics don't really. More modes can be fun, but I'd rather play a game with good controls than one with more modes. And there's no reason a Wii game can't have more modes. We don't even really know how many modes this game's online has yet. I don't see how the Wii is designed just for mini game collections. Its a console with a unique controller. Its still a games console and there have been some great hardcore games on it. How can you say a console that has had games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, SSBB, Zelda: TP, ect. a console for Mini game collections. Mini games collections for the most part don't even sell as well as decent hardcore games on the console. Just because the console is less powerful than other consoles doesn't mean it can't have just as good of games. It just needs to do something unique and different and this is exactly what Wii does. If more developers decided to release hardcore games for it we wouldn't even be having this argument.

[mcj metroid]

metroid has notable problems pulling levers and in my opinion scanning and firing missles was hell but these aren't major enough concerns.. but Just because of this though(and i do love mp3)i hold moh as the prime example of controls on wii.

 

Controls effect gameplay quite a bit. Things like graphics don't really. More modes can be fun, but I'd rather play a game with good controls than one with more modes. And there's no reason a Wii game can't have more modes. We don't even really know how many modes this game's online has yet. I don't see how the Wii is designed just for mini game collections. Its a console with a unique controller. Its still a games console and there have been some great hardcore games on it. How can you say a console that has had games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, SSBB, Zelda: TP, ect. a console for Mini game collections. Mini games collections for the most part don't even sell as well as decent hardcore games on the console. Just because the console is less powerful than other consoles doesn't mean it can't have just as good of games. It just needs to do something unique and different and this is exactly what Wii does. If more developers decided to release hardcore games for it we wouldn't even be having this argument.

 

see this thing is.. dual analogue isn't BAD controls.. in games like halo on 360 they work brilliantly... of course if the game has horrible controls with brilliant graphics it would be worse than the other way round but dual analogue is not bad.

 

you see as for the minigame thing.. id agree with metroid prime 3 but ssbb works best with a gamecube controller.. zelda IS a gamecube game and while galaxy has lovely graphics probably still best on wii.. its controls could still be worked for a gamecube.. albeit the game would have to be altered.

 

i still think metroid prime 3 is the best example of a game that could NOT be done for gamecube that IS hardcore.. but it seems to be the only one so far...

[Ganepark32]

^ I've been playing through the first two Metroid Primes as well as going over the third one and while many think that it could be done on the GC, trust me when I say it can't. Graphically, it may look similar due to the environments but the detail, lighting, etc. are far and beyond that of the Gamecube. That's all I'll say on the subject. Oh... and trying to go from playing MP3 to MP1 or MP2 with the gamecube controller is a nightmare. Playing them I just wish they used the Wiimote.

[mcj metroid]

^ I've been playing through the first two Metroid Primes as well as going over the third one and while many think that it could be done on the GC, trust me when I say it can't. Graphically, it may look similar due to the environments but the detail, lighting, etc. are far and beyond that of the Gamecube. That's all I'll say on the subject. Oh... and trying to go from playing MP3 to MP1 or MP2 with the gamecube controller is a nightmare. Playing them I just wish they used the Wiimote.

 

i apolgise I meant prime 3 is the prime example of a wii game that could NOT be done for gamecube... just left out the not.. it's edited now I agree entirely with you

[Ganepark32]

Galaxy couldn't be done on the Gamecube either. Control wise, yeh. Graphically and music wise, no. They'd have to gimp it in level size by quite a bit to get it on there.

[mcj metroid]

Galaxy couldn't be done on the Gamecube either. Control wise, yeh. Graphically and music wise, no. They'd have to gimp it in level size by quite a bit to get it on there.

 

graphics no ?lets be honest it could have been done on a cube in the same way resident evil 4 could be done on a ps2.

 

how could it not be done musicwise? because it was orchestrated? no games have been doing that pre ps1.

 

Galaxy was amazing but i thought sunshine controlled better. The lack of buttons on the wiimote and nunchuck made them leave out a few moves i feel like the dive.. Which I always missed.

[D_prOdigy]

Resident Evil 4 had to be downgraded in the graphics dept considerably. Some people say there's hardly a difference, but I can tell every single time a site uses PS2 footage instead of Cube. Textures, frame rate, not to mention loading times. And don't even get me started on the PC version.

[mcj metroid]

Resident Evil 4 had to be downgraded in the graphics dept considerably. Some people say there's hardly a difference, but I can tell every single time a site uses PS2 footage instead of Cube. Textures, frame rate, not to mention loading times. And don't even get me started on the PC version.

the pc version was patched to hell and doesnt look nearly as bad now....so i hear anyway haven't tried it myself but was disasterous when we first saw it..

 

oh ya it;s a notable difference but still an awesome game.. They gave it extra modes to make up for it..Graphically it was very good for the ps2.

[dazzybee]

I said you are basing everything on controls... at least in this scenario.Im sure you dont in general.

 

wii controls are better yes from the good games we have seen. but its the ONLY thing thats better... most people enjoy dual analogue playing,just look at how popular the genre is on 360. More modes and dlc keeps the game going twice longer at most. so better graphics,longer playability,better sound,hd,better on-line,downloadable content...... the wii only has better and only arguably controls(for the moment until proven futher).

 

IM not saying the wii shouln't do fps games.. it should but this is clearly not what the wii was made for.. it's not it's strength. Wii is made for games like wii sports whether you like it or not.

 

 

red steel was good for it's time but cack now... I knew someone would bring it up though

 

But his is subjective isn't it? I prefer to play CoD on the Wii than PS3 - the PS3 has more modes etc. But compared to the Wii controls like a tank. I play Pro Evo Wii more than I do Fifa 09 PS3, PS3 has INFINTELY more modes, yet I play the other more. Your argument only works in theory! I'd rather play the best game for 20 hours than a worse one for 30!!

 

Oh, and the Wii wasn't made for FPS?!?! It was probably made for this genre more than any other! And made for games like Wii Sports!! What the hell are you talking about!?!?!

 

PS Of course Galaxy could be made for Cube with worse graphics and gimping the controls?!?! Whats the point? You can say that about any game? It wouldn't be the best game ever Mario Galaxy like on the Wii but you could do it.

 

And please stop with the Zelda is a gamecube game bullshit! It launched on the Wii, it uses the Wiimote VERY well, IT'S A WII GAME!!!!!

[Emasher]

One thing to keep in mind about the Wii being designed for FPS games, is the fact that the console ships with a controller (The nun-chuck) that was specifically designed for an FPS game (MP3).

[D_prOdigy]

Not to forget that Retro Studios themselves had the idea for the Nunchuck (God bless them).

[Emasher]

Not to forget that Retro Studios themselves had the idea for the Nunchuck (God bless them).

 

That's what I meant by that.

[D_prOdigy]

That's what I meant by that.

 

Ah, I see (I thought you might have )

[mcj metroid]

But his is subjective isn't it? I prefer to play CoD on the Wii than PS3 - the PS3 has more modes etc. But compared to the Wii controls like a tank. I play Pro Evo Wii more than I do Fifa 09 PS3, PS3 has INFINTELY more modes, yet I play the other more. Your argument only works in theory! I'd rather play the best game for 20 hours than a worse one for 30!!

Oh, and the Wii wasn't made for FPS?!?! It was probably made for this genre more than any other! And made for games like Wii Sports!! What the hell are you talking about!?!?!

 

PS Of course Galaxy could be made for Cube with worse graphics and gimping the controls?!?! Whats the point? You can say that about any game? It wouldn't be the best game ever Mario Galaxy like on the Wii but you could do it.

 

And please stop with the Zelda is a gamecube game bullshit! It launched on the Wii, it uses the Wiimote VERY well, IT'S A WII GAME!!!!!

 

oh it's made for fps is it ? don't be in denial.. IN almost 3 years we have had about 7 fps games.. only 2 of these are any good and metroid is barely classified as one. the wii LAUNCHED WITH wii sports... fps games are ONLY popular in the western world. do you really think nintendo are going to just randomly base a console around a genre only certain people like... NO!!!!(See i can add exclamation marks for dramatic effect too!) .nintendo's games are for EVERYONE and that's how we come to wii sports and their idea of an expanded audience.. it's more of a coicidence than fps games work so well rather than a focus when they created the controller.

I believe retro even had the suggestion of the nunchuck in the first place.. So clearly nintendo went with it.. but fps more than any other genre? NO!

 

Zelda IS a gamecube game at heart..! is mario 64 an n64 game or ds game?is resident evil 4 a gamecube game or ps2.... we always base these things on the console it was MADE for. That's why people are waiting for the first TRUE wii zelda game made from the ground up for the wii.

 

MOst of your entire first paragraph is your opinion and in the case of cod... a very weird one... im pretty sure most people prefer cod 4 to cod 3 on the wii of all things

 

the galaxy was only to show that I believe it isn't a game that shows off the wii...I believe metroid is,wii sports and wii play are,wii fit, rayman basically anything that makes GOOD use of the motion controls... galaxy doesn't.. it works well.. but i'd look at galaxy and say wow.. look at the graphics but It would not revolutionise my life like super mario 64 did...

 

I am trying to have a discussion I'm just stating my opinion on the matter. Make a response but stop yelling at me

[...]

I don't understand why some people keep calling the Metroid games FPS? They are 1st person games, but not FPS. Saying Metroid Prime is an FPS is like saying Portal is an FPS. Is Portal an FPS? Metroid games are not and have never been "shooters", regardless of what perspective they are played from. Some people just can't seem to wrap their brains around this simple fact.

[darksnowman]

oh it's made for fps is it ? don't be in denial.. IN almost 3 years we have had about 7 fps games.. only 2 of these are any good and metroid is barely classified as one. the wii LAUNCHED WITH wii sports... fps games are ONLY popular in the western world. do you really think nintendo are going to just randomly base a console around a genre only certain people like... NO!!!!(See i can add exclamation marks for dramatic effect too!) .nintendo's games are for EVERYONE and that's how we come to wii sports and their idea of an expanded audience.. it's more of a coicidence than fps games work so well rather than a focus when they created the controller.

I believe retro even had the suggestion of the nunchuck in the first place.. So clearly nintendo went with it.. but fps more than any other genre? NO!

 

I didn't know about Retro Studios coming up with the idea for the nunchuk til now, but even if its true, didn't Iwata initially showcase the Wii as being a console thats ideal for shooters? I mean, what was the launch game Nintendo themselves put the spotlight on? It was RedSteel.

[Gio001]

Mcj, I think what Dazzybee was trying to say is the Wii, whilst not being built from the ground up for fps did consider fps controls as well as wii sports type control in it's design of wiimote & nunchuck (cheers retro) & whether by design or by accident the wii controls do suit fps amazingly well. Just because there have only been 7 fps games since launch doesn't mean it's not made for fps or shooters, the wii had been let down by ignorance & lazy developers but things are changing.

 

Controls are an individual thing, you prefer 360 pad, others the wiimote & nunchuck & some a mouse & keyboard. I personally thought the resi 4 controls on cube pad were perfect but after playing it on Wii it's like a step back now when i go back & play it. I have a Wii & 360 and some games i play on 360, mainly fps, i wish were on the wii or had wii type controls & i don't mean added waggle for waggles sake. As Dazzybee mentioned, i'd rather play pro evo wii than any hd 360/ps3 footy game simply for the controls whereas some people prefer the hd visuals ie they really wanna see how much Wayne Rooney looks like Shrek.

 

I must add sony & microsoft may with the success of the Wii go down the same road eventually contol wise but hopefully, like games on the Wii, support a choice of control methods ie Wiimote & nunchuck, classic pad or gamecube controller. A classic example of this is Mariokart Wii, i use the wheel, on past consoles i've bought crappy steering wheel controlers whereas now i use the Wiimote & if i want to be posh i stick the Wiimote in a plastic steering wheel yet i know lots of other people prefer wiimote & nunchuck or cube controller, it's individual choice & no amount of '' you must prefer this type of control '' is going to change it

[Patch]

After the Wiimote was unveiled, I think a lot of people speculated that it was the FPS genre that had the greatest potential for growth. There were countless discussions about how the controls would work. The first screenshots of a Wii game were for an FPS (Red Steel). All of this built up quite a bit of hype for FPS games on the Wii.

 

So it's odd IMO that we haven't seen more. I'm glad the Conduit is on its way, but I was hoping there would be many developers like HVS carving out new territory in FPS games.

 

I don't understand why some people keep calling the Metroid games FPS?

 

Now that's not entirely true, is it?

It's a game with a first person perspective and you can shoot stuff. Therefore it's an FPS. You know, in the same way that Mario 64 is a beat-em-up.

[darksnowman]

It's a game with a first person perspective and you can shoot stuff. Therefore it's an FPS. You know, in the same way that Mario 64 is a beat-em-up.

 

Ah yes, well Killer Instinct is a platformer after all...

[dazzybee]

oh it's made for fps is it ? don't be in denial.. IN almost 3 years we have had about 7 fps games.. only 2 of these are any good and metroid is barely classified as one. the wii LAUNCHED WITH wii sports... fps games are ONLY popular in the western world. do you really think nintendo are going to just randomly base a console around a genre only certain people like... NO!!!!(See i can add exclamation marks for dramatic effect too!) .nintendo's games are for EVERYONE and that's how we come to wii sports and their idea of an expanded audience.. it's more of a coicidence than fps games work so well rather than a focus when they created the controller.

I believe retro even had the suggestion of the nunchuck in the first place.. So clearly nintendo went with it.. but fps more than any other genre? NO!

 

Zelda IS a gamecube game at heart..! is mario 64 an n64 game or ds game?is resident evil 4 a gamecube game or ps2.... we always base these things on the console it was MADE for. That's why people are waiting for the first TRUE wii zelda game made from the ground up for the wii.

 

MOst of your entire first paragraph is your opinion and in the case of cod... a very weird one... im pretty sure most people prefer cod 4 to cod 3 on the wii of all things

 

the galaxy was only to show that I believe it isn't a game that shows off the wii...I believe metroid is,wii sports and wii play are,wii fit, rayman basically anything that makes GOOD use of the motion controls... galaxy doesn't.. it works well.. but i'd look at galaxy and say wow.. look at the graphics but It would not revolutionise my life like super mario 64 did...

 

I am trying to have a discussion I'm just stating my opinion on the matter. Make a response but stop yelling at me

 

Thanks for everyone afterward to support my FPS musings.

 

Firstly, I wasn't LITERALLY saying Nintendo built the Wii for FPS, that's just stupid, MS didn't build the 360 for FPS either. You build a controller for all games. My point was that the controls lend themselves to FPS more than any other controller before it - like snowman said, the game they showed the Wii off was Red Steel, the game they showd the controls off behind closed doors was a reworked Metroid Prime 2.

 

Also, since when was ai comparing CoD3 Wii Vs CoD 4?! I wasn't, I was comparing CoD: WaW on both the Wii and 360/PS3 - I've played all three versions, the one I prefer to play is the Wii version!

 

But the Wii isn't JUST about the controls either, why are you dismissing Galaxy just because it doesn't use them extensively? That's ridiculous. I will also add that although it doesn't use them a lot, what it does really adds to the game play, I love the twizzle, I love using the pointer to get star bits, I love how rolling around on the balls works!! Subtle additions to aid gameplay which couldn't be done on any other controller the same way!! Your point is.....pointless!!! And no 3d platform game can be as revolutionary as Mario 64, again, what a stupid point! What 3d platformer on the 360 or any other console has affected you like Mario 64?! That's like saying the first use of colour in a film is the best film ever and every other film that uses colour isn't as good because it doesn't have the same affect as the first film that used colour!

 

Keep stating your opinion, it's fun. And I'm not shouting, I'm using capitols and exclamation marks to help give emphasis :p

[mcj metroid]

I don't understand why some people keep calling the Metroid games FPS? They are 1st person games, but not FPS. Saying Metroid Prime is an FPS is like saying Portal is an FPS. Is Portal an FPS? Metroid games are not and have never been "shooters", regardless of what perspective they are played from. Some people just can't seem to wrap their brains around this simple fact.

 

this is true.. metroid prime hunters is an fps i believe however.

 

Mcj, I think what Dazzybee was trying to say is the Wii, whilst not being built from the ground up for fps did consider fps controls as well as wii sports type control in it's design of wiimote & nunchuck (cheers retro) & whether by design or by accident the wii controls do suit fps amazingly well. Just because there have only been 7 fps games since launch doesn't mean it's not made for fps or shooters, the wii had been let down by ignorance & lazy developers but things are changing.

 

Controls are an individual thing, you prefer 360 pad, others the wiimote & nunchuck & some a mouse & keyboard. I personally thought the resi 4 controls on cube pad were perfect but after playing it on Wii it's like a step back now when i go back & play it. I have a Wii & 360 and some games i play on 360, mainly fps, i wish were on the wii or had wii type controls & i don't mean added waggle for waggles sake. As Dazzybee mentioned, i'd rather play pro evo wii than any hd 360/ps3 footy game simply for the controls whereas some people prefer the hd visuals ie they really wanna see how much Wayne Rooney looks like Shrek.

 

I must add sony & microsoft may with the success of the Wii go down the same road eventually contol wise but hopefully, like games on the Wii, support a choice of control methods ie Wiimote & nunchuck, classic pad or gamecube controller. A classic example of this is Mariokart Wii, i use the wheel, on past consoles i've bought crappy steering wheel controlers whereas now i use the Wiimote & if i want to be posh i stick the Wiimote in a plastic steering wheel yet i know lots of other people prefer wiimote & nunchuck or cube controller, it's individual choice & no amount of '' you must prefer this type of control '' is going to change it

 

I believe everything will change next gen... Motion controls are going to get better and better and it IS the future and there is no stopping it.. maybe wii motion 1:1 is the first step in convincing me fully superiority of wii controls..

 

MArio kart is a bad example i feel.. I don;t like the whell at all.. but that's just me but I find that the most experienced players eventually drop the whell. I completely agree with resident evil 4 being best on wii.

 

There was a tiny little bit of focus on fps games but it definatly wasn't the original intention.. there is no reason why it couldn't be home to some great fps games and already is.

 

Thanks for everyone afterward to support my FPS musings.

 

Firstly, I wasn't LITERALLY saying Nintendo built the Wii for FPS, that's just stupid, MS didn't build the 360 for FPS either. You build a controller for all games. My point was that the controls lend themselves to FPS more than any other controller before it - like snowman said, the game they showed the Wii off was Red Steel, the game they showd the controls off behind closed doors was a reworked Metroid Prime 2.

 

Also, since when was ai comparing CoD3 Wii Vs CoD 4?! I wasn't, I was comparing CoD: WaW on both the Wii and 360/PS3 - I've played all three versions, the one I prefer to play is the Wii version!

 

But the Wii isn't JUST about the controls either, why are you dismissing Galaxy just because it doesn't use them extensively? That's ridiculous. I will also add that although it doesn't use them a lot, what it does really adds to the game play, I love the twizzle, I love using the pointer to get star bits, I love how rolling around on the balls works!! Subtle additions to aid gameplay which couldn't be done on any other controller the same way!! Your point is.....pointless!!! And no 3d platform game can be as revolutionary as Mario 64, again, what a stupid point! What 3d platformer on the 360 or any other console has affected you like Mario 64?! That's like saying the first use of colour in a film is the best film ever and every other film that uses colour isn't as good because it doesn't have the same affect as the first film that used colour!

 

Keep stating your opinion, it's fun. And I'm not shouting, I'm using capitols and exclamation marks to help give emphasis :p

 

first of all I completely forgot about WAW so i apologise for that mixup.. didn;t know it was out yet

 

again i love galaxy but it ISNT THE game to showcase wiis controls.. It is to show off pretty graphics and music but NOT controls..!

 

Of course mario 64 had the potential to be revolutionary.

with a completely new control method super mario galaxy could have changed the very way we played platformers forever so yes it could have been revolutionary... remember the original name for wii? the revolution? wii's key franchise is mario and has it revolutionised?...nah not really

. but Instead as good as it is still super mario 64 III. Oh and nothing on 360 could effect me like mario galaxy because microsoft doesn't do MUCH new for that genre but look what it did with the likes of halo 2 for console on-line.

 

NOt saying mario 64 is the best game ever either.. Just that's it's one of the most revolutionary... there IS a difference. But even if we apply it to movies with everything that's added... With new special effects wasn't star wars revolutionary?how about toy story for how we view animation?

 

everytime something majororally new is added a chance for a revoltionary game is there. and motion sensing is a big deal.. We will get that platformer eventually i

[Patch]

everytime something majororally new is added a chance for a revoltionary game is there. and motion sensing is a big deal.. We will get that platformer eventually i

 

Was that your Ali G impression? A-aye?

 

I know it's sad to quote people on their grammar and spelling, but 'majororally' is going to keep me going all day!

 

All this talk of Mario Galaxy - it makes you wonder what kind of game they would have produced had there been no nunchuk. Perhaps we would have seen something truly revolutionary.

[Emasher]

Point and Click Mario? Most of the games that use this (Animal Crossing), it really doesn't work that well with. Plus, I'm sure there would be a lot fewer 3rd party games without it.