3rd Parties Finding It Difficult Satisfying Casuals.

[Hero-of-Time]

An interesting article has popped up at GoNintendo.

 

Developers can’t make games for just the core audience anymore. If you really want a piece of the pie, you have to devote some dev time to the casual crowd as well. Many third parties have come to realize this, and they are voicing their concerns. These devs are more than willing to create games that appeal to these consumers, it’s just the matter of actually coming up with titles that can attract these audiences.

 

MCV has talked to a few third party devs about this situation, and they have offered up their feelings on the market, as well as how they plan to tackle them.

 

The full article is here..

 

Satisfying both hardcore and casual market may prove difficult next year, say label bosses

The UK industry’s biggest publishers have revealed the challenges that await them next year: and it appears the major worry is that ‘you can’t please all of the people, all of the time’.

 

According to the likes of EA, Ubisoft and Activision, the trial of keeping the increasingly lucrative casual games market satisfied whilst pushing the boundaries of next-gen systems could be more of a headache than a blessing.

 

Activision MD Andrew Brown told MCV: “The biggest challenge for publishers in 2008 will be to keep up with the ever increasing demands and appetite of the new consumer base. Casual gamers have a very different profile to traditional gamers. Not only will they want different types of games, they will also expect a different kind of shopping experience and be reached with different messaging.â€

 

Ubisoft’s domestic managing director Rob Cooper added: “Publishers have the twin challenge of producing stand-out titles to meet mass interest, whilst at the same time creating genuine next generation titles with innovative content for an increasingly tech savvy gamer.â€

 

EA UK MD Keith Ramsdale commented: “We will be bringing content that will appeal to a very broad audience and success will be defined by how well we market that content broadly and in an effective and cost efficient manner.â€

However, the rise of casual gaming has not caused universal alarm amongst the figureheads of UK games – with bosses still having plenty of reasons to be cheerful about the ever-widening market.

 

Warner Bros boss Chris Meredith said: “I hope that video games continue to surge towards mass market acceptance next year, and take a permanent place in the living room as opposed to just the bedroom or study.â€

 

Brown added: “The casual gaming phenomenon is diversifying our consumer footprint and delivering a mass market audience, which brings scale and even greater respectability to the industry.â€

 

Other challenges highlighted by publishers included securing studio tax breaks from the Government, making ‘bespoke’ content for each next gen system and the entry of media giants such as News Corp into the market.

 

Codemasters CEO Rod Cousens said: “Video games is the most exciting opportunity in entertainment in a digital age. We need to ensure that it continues to be overlooked by fiddling Goliaths who occupy themselves surveying burning embers elsewhere

 

Microsoft has also commented on the 3rd party support aswell and GoNintendo kind of agrees.

 

"Clearly, we have a competitor where they win and no one else wins. That is not sustainable, it has never been sustainable.†- Jeff Bell, head of global marketing, Microsoft’s games

 

Mr. Bell believes that third parties are biting the bullet when it comes to software sales. I can’t say that I can argue with that statement. Unless the quality of third party games goes up, and devs find out how to appeal to the unique Wii audience, we could see Nintendo losing the third party support that they worked so hard to regain.

 

I know alot of people will say that if 3rd parties put some effort in then they will see the money come flooding back but for some reason that isnt really the case on the Wii. Im not going to go on about sales figure for various games and such but rather give an example.

 

My brother owns a Wii but he has no interest in playing Mario Galaxy yet he happily bought Carnival Games and thinks its an amazing game and this is where the problem lies.

 

If 3rd parties can churn out low rated games like this and get people buying them then why will they develop big budget games on the Wii? If the 3rd parties are looking to make an impact in the casual market then we will see alot more mini games collections heading our way, which has always been a worry of mine.

 

Just some fuel for thought, now its your turn!

[Hellfire]

So, basically they're whining because they can't make games? Fantastic.

[Tellyn]

Only a few developers put effort into their games, and some don't seem to realise that casual gamers aren't the be all and end all.

[darksnowman]

Casuals are obviously not the be all and end all, but they are definitely... profitable!

 

We've seen that its tough on the Wii to sell "hardcore" games on the same scale as the more casual ones like Mario and Sonic. I guess, in a way, to balance that, Wii games are generally cheaper to put together so developers need to sell less copies before they start making a profit overall.

 

Despite everything though, I want Mario Galaxy and the other "proper" games to be selling like hotcakes.

[jammy2211]

It's all media sensationalism, and it just makes me laugh. When you look at the Wii library you're going to be hard pushed to find many third party games which deserve high sales, and any of them which do have been rewarded with impressive figures. The only game which received positive reviews not to have yet sell well is Zack & Wiki, and that's going to sell best in Europe anyway so it's not worth counting that yet.

 

I think there are two problems, firstly is the believe that Wii is a fad and is miraculously going to stop selling. There are still alot of people within the industry that simply can't accept the Wii has any chance of being successful and no matter how much it sells they'll continue to pump most of their resources into the PS3 and 360. I'm guessing once these companies start losing money this'll be addressed.

 

The bigger problem is just companies don't know how to advertise their games or widen their appeal. For example Zack and Wiki is a great game with widespread appeal to casuals and hardcores alike, but they completely disregarded any sort of marketing and that ruined it's sales. On the other hand EA put alot of money into advertising Boogie but they advertised it to the wrong markets and made a terrible game (It still sold pretty well though :S).

 

I'm not really sure where to go with this, but all I can say is third party sales have been extremely healthy thus far and the only reason people question them is because of this myth which sprung up during the N64 and GC days. To be honest people should be alot more worried about PS3 third party sales then Wii's.

[Hero-of-Time]

This isnt just random forum members though these are genuine concerns from the 3rd parties themselves. To be fair I really couldnt give a toss about their support as I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games and any 3rd party game that is released that is worth a look is just a bonus.

[Tellyn]

To be fair though there's some good third party games coming up in 2008 such as Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes and Medal of Honor. Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes have already been shunned by the ungrateful citizens of Japan, but I think more marketing needs to be done by third parties.

[Hellfire]

It's still BS, they can't blame others for their incompetence.

[Phube]

Activision MD Andrew Brown told MCV: “The biggest challenge for publishers in 2008 will be to keep up with the ever increasing demands and appetite of the new consumer base. Casual gamers have a very different profile to traditional gamers. Not only will they want different types of games, they will also expect a different kind of shopping experience and be reached with different messaging.”

 

Funniest quote!!! They obviously believe 'gamers' like to play the same crap over and over!!!

[Goron_3]

Just make BS like Carnival games and you'll make your money.

[McPhee]

It all depends who actually owns a Wii, theres no point trying to flog proper games to people who bought the Wii for Wii Sports, Wii Fit and mini games.

 

Developers will be anxious about developing games like Zak & Wiki until a few games are successful in breaking the mainstream, it's natural. If Zak & Wiki and No More Heroes are a success then more games like them will appear. If not then the Wii will be subjected to a diet of 1st party Nintendo titles and 3rd party mini-game filler (with support from EA's annual sports titles).

 

Basically it comes down to the ability of publishers/advertisers to make you're mum want to play No More Heroes

[Kurtle Squad]

It's because they've been making too many shit games on the PS2, GBA, DS & Wii.

 

And those that do make good games don't advertise.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Funniest quote!!! They obviously believe 'gamers' like to play the same crap over and over!!!

It's funny (and kind of sad) if looked at that way, but in context I think they mean that casual gamers want different types of games compared to hardcore gamers, i.e. other types of games.

[Phube]

It's funny (and kind of sad) if looked at that way, but in context I think they mean that casual gamers want different types of games compared to hardcore gamers, i.e. other types of games.

 

I know, but it still amounts to the same thing.

 

Imagine if the film industry felt this way:

 

"Well we've been making these action/war movies for years... but it seems some people actually want to watch romantic comedies!!! How dare they!!!!"

 

It shows how far behind mainstream media, gaming still is! it really is sad!

[Emasher]

This isnt just random forum members though these are genuine concerns from the 3rd parties themselves. To be fair I really couldnt give a toss about their support as I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games and any 3rd party game that is released that is worth a look is just a bonus.

 

Too true. I haven't played a genuinely good third party game on the wii yet. The best 3rd party game I have played on it was dragon blade wrath of fire.

 

My 3D animation class keeps having arguments on what is better the 360 or the wii. The 360 fan boys keep arguing that halo is better than both mario galaxy and metroid prime 3 and the only thing they actually try to argue is that halo has better graphics and is more realistic so it (they say) it must be a better game. The point of gaming is to do things that aren't very realistic and visit places we never thought possible so really a game that isn't very realistic is much better as long as the controls are done right and you don't feel trapped because the game is too linear only because the developers are too lazy.

[Gizmo]

I find it funny how people say it's the third parties faults that they get low sales because they make bad games. They aren't making bad games per-se, just games for the wrong audience. No More Heroes won't sell well in Japan because it's a hardcore game at it's most hardcore, and as we can all see from sales figures of other games that just isn't the Wii's target demographic. Games which aren't traditionally good to us experienced gamers may well be good to the less informed, and if thats what makes the money, thats what will be made. Sure there is alot of tat, but saying that the only reason for third party games failing is that they aren't good enough is ridiculous.

[Hellfire]

I find it funny how people say it's the third parties faults that they get low sales because they make bad games. They aren't making bad games per-se, just games for the wrong audience. No More Heroes won't sell well in Japan because it's a hardcore game at it's most hardcore, and as we can all see from sales figures of other games that just isn't the Wii's target demographic. Games which aren't traditionally good to us experienced gamers may well be good to the less informed, and if thats what makes the money, thats what will be made. Sure there is alot of tat, but saying that the only reason for third party games failing is that they aren't good enough is ridiculous.

It's not the only reason, but it's the main reason, because most of them are crap and when they're not they can't market them.

NMH had 0 marketing. Zilch. Nada. Zack & Wiki, same. Take EA for example, they're making very good Wii games, yet when I see interviews about them, it's always about the 360/PS3 version. Both Tiger and Madden Wii are good games that should interest the audience, but if they don't market them right, people will keep buying them on other consoles.

It's not as if there are no good 3rd party games, there's no need to exaggerate, but devs are talking about games aimed to the non-gamers, like Wii Play, if they don't make them stand out, they can't put the blame on anyone else. Not to mention that they hardly invest in the development, so it's not like they lose huge chunks of money.

[jammy2211]

I find it funny how people say it's the third parties faults that they get low sales because they make bad games. They aren't making bad games per-se, just games for the wrong audience. No More Heroes won't sell well in Japan because it's a hardcore game at it's most hardcore, and as we can all see from sales figures of other games that just isn't the Wii's target demographic. Games which aren't traditionally good to us experienced gamers may well be good to the less informed, and if thats what makes the money, thats what will be made. Sure there is alot of tat, but saying that the only reason for third party games failing is that they aren't good enough is ridiculous.

 

I think companies can easily make games tailed to either audience and see sizeable sales, I mean just looking at the top sellers list shows as much presense for minigames and casual stuff as it does the more traditional style games.

 

No More Heroes isn't really a fair example, because Suda 51 games have never sold well. Infact NMH's is one of his best ever selling games in Japan thus far, which sort of makes the example seem a bit foolish.

 

I just can't see where people get this idea that minigames / casual games are the only type of software which has any sales presence. I mean sure, Mario PArty 8 and WarioWare are selling very well, but all 4 Mario Party's on GameCube sold over a million copies, and the WarioWare's sold equally impressively on DS and GBA. I'm guessing people are just ignorant and go with what others say, just seems odd to me.

[Fierce_LiNk]

In my opinion, the key is advertising. That's one of the main reasons why the Wii is where it is now, it didn't just happen by accident. Nintendo actually pulled their fingers out and did something about advertising their new machine.

 

And it's worked wonders. That's partly why people knew about WiiSports and other such titles. In terms of first party games, Nintendo have advertised these pretty well.

 

As others have already stated in this thread, advertising is important. You can't just make a product, shove it out there and expect it to sell, no matter how good it is. If there's no air in space, nobody will hear you scream. You've gotta make people recognise that there are these kinda games on this specific system.

 

Are you a third party worried about making serious games for the Wii? Then frigging advertise the fact that the Wii can be a home to these games, too. I'm not saying it's straightforward, but its a start.

[gaggle64]

A trip down to my local game store seems to suggest that industry is somewhat riven between two extremes - everything is either all cars, blood tits and war, or else it's all those minigame compilations. It seems this is what has been defined as the difference between "hardcore" and "casual" now. I'm not saying there isn't some choice, but not nearly enough. When I think about casual games, I think about the PS1 generation. Crammed full of colourful but simple platform games like Croc, Spyro, Rayman and Crash, cute puzzlers like Bubble-Bobble, humourous action games like Duke Nukem and easy going sports titles like TOCA and Fifa. There was a full range of simple, easy, attractive titles that everyone could enjoy as well as the hardcore stuff.

 

I think what's currently holding the video games is the same thing currently sending the movie industry backwards. There's so much money involved, everything seems to be based on risk assement and demograph. When I look at mini game compilations, you can almost see the phrase "at least it's cheap to make" floating over it. Then comes Xmas and all of a sudden it's all massive action and complex adventure titles (Crysis, Assasins Creed, Mass Effect).

 

In cinema's meanwhile, every summer it's the usual dearth of cack-handed romance comedys, with whatever genre hollywood has decided is the big money spinner this year following after (Epic fantasty this year, it seems.) Then someone makes a succesful sci-fi movie or something, with that genre being quickly run into the ground again within another couple of years.

 

Both industries need to learn just to support games and movies and the artists ability to make them attractive to the public, rather then view anything as strictly demograph targeted content.

[Meta_Omega]

Duke Nukem

 

The definition of blood, tits and guns.

[david.dakota]

I think casuals want just a little more than a virtual Kieth Chegwin. Casuals want varied and exciting experiences, but with simpler controls - I genuinely beleive that casuls are 90% uninterested in games with the Nunchck, but thats not to say that they just want 'point to the answer quiz games'.

 

Whats wrong with a 3D platformer using solely the pointer function and A button? An on the rails shooter without complex nunchuck controls? Adventure? Casuals can and do play games at length. Factor that into the ideas - adventures with constant and unobtrusive save points for example. Sony's EyeToy was fantastic on PS2, but lacked support (but it showed Sony understood - hopefully PS3 Eye will follow suit). Microsoft's effort however, that SceneIt controller is only designed for quiz show games, and cannot provide any varied experiences.

 

The point. Treat gamers - casual or otherwise - with respect.

[Tito]

Isn't that wonderful? Third parties complaining because their half-hearted efforts don't sell? They can whine all they want, I don't care. The truth is, Nintendo games sell far more for a very simple reason: not only they have a strong brand and fan following (things they earned by making good games, not by whining nobody wants their games...) Nintendo games are among the best in the industry, period. Despite the fact that we are all fanboys and biased, critics and other developers frequently praise Nintendo games. Many Nintendo games make every single "top games of all time" list, and often take the top spot (in the last "top 100" IGN list, Nintendo had 5 games in the top 10, including the top spot). Ubisoft said they are working towards "Nintendo-like quality". And third parties expect their quick cash-ins to fly off the shelves? Not going to happen. Third-parties who take their time to make good games on the Wii, such as Ubisoft, Activision, E.A and Capcom, are reaping the rewards. All the others need to step up or shut up. But the crowning jewel definitely goes to Microsoft's hypocrisy: "Clearly, we have a competitor where they win and no one else wins. That is not sustainable, it has never been sustainable.” Clearly, their experience with Windows taught them everything about the "unsustainability" of winning while no one else wins, right?

[gaggle64]

The definition of blood, tits and guns.

 

Yes, but also with it's tounge firmly in cheek. If hadn't had that sense of humour, it would be on the sludge heap with all the rest.

[K-project]

My brother owns a Wii but he has no interest in playing Mario Galaxy yet he happily bought Carnival Games and thinks its an amazing game and this is where the problem lies.

 

If 3rd parties can churn out low rated games like this and get people buying them then why will they develop big budget games on the Wii? If the 3rd parties are looking to make an impact in the casual market then we will see alot more mini games collections heading our way, which has always been a worry of mine.

 

Depressing isn't it? Sometimes I think I take games far too seriously, and cannot see the enjoyment that someone may get out of something like Carnival Games. But then I think, well, if I was going to pay good money for a game, wouldn't I want something worth the price, no matter how cheap it is? Something like Carnival Games is basically just a mobile phone game isn't it? I play stuff like that for free all the time on my Linux PC for Gawd's sake.

 

This represents a huge problem for the future of the Wii as a respectable games system. We're already at the point where the only real good stuff is made by Nintendo.