Mikey Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 They can't lose money they didn't have, but they can lose money they should have had. It's good that you encourage people to buy games, and you specifically say that it keeps people in jobs. How can people be losing jobs if they are, like you say, not losing money? Well "should" implies that they are entitled to it. They aren't entitled for their game to sell. Whenever a product is made, and shipped, the companies lose money by default. Any sales which come after are never guaranteed. I don't know how this can be debated against to be honest. Credit to you though, you are not jumping down my throat like many people do when I state this opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Well...it wouldn't be like they were stealing my things, more like using a device to generate copies of my things then take them for themself. Piracy never seems to stop games from selling well though...it's somewhat 'niche'. Good for all of us I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkjak Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 It's not physically possible to buy a Wii in China because Nintendo are so worried about piracy. The result? Retailes import consoles from Japan and America, chip them and sell pirated games. Are you sure? As far as I know, no company's allowed to sell anything in China atless it's manufactured there, hence why there are Toyota factories there, despite Japan being really close! But nearly everything's legal in the Netherlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Well...it wouldn't be like they were stealing my things, more like using a device to generate copies of my things then take them for themself. Piracy never seems to stop games from selling well though...it's somewhat 'niche'. Good for all of us I think. Exactly. If I create something, then someone makes an exact duplicate of it, how are they stealing it away from me? I hate it when people say it's stealing. If they want to call it illegal copying, fine by me, but stealing? Nah, I'm not having that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Well "should" implies that they are entitled to it. They aren't entitled for their game to sell. [/b] Well, if they produce a game, and then you acquire that game, then yes, they are entitled to it. You are playing something, in full I might add, we're not talking about demos here - for free. Whenever a product is made, and shipped, the companies lose money by default. Any sales which come after are never guaranteed. I don't know how this can be debated against to be honest. Sales are not guaranteed, you are right. But, refer to my point above. Credit to you though, you are not jumping down my throat like many people do when I state this opinion. It's a forum, and this has been a pretty awesome debate. Well...it wouldn't be like they were stealing my things, more like using a device to generate copies of my things then take them for themself. Piracy never seems to stop games from selling well though...it's somewhat 'niche'. Good for all of us I think. But you're still taking something that belongs to somebody else. It's on sale, meaning that people are making a living off this. By taking that away from them, you are effectively taking money they should be getting for that product. Piracy is stealing. It doesn't matter if the game is downloaded or if it comes on a disc...you are still taking something for free when it is on sale, and you are doing it illegally. The game is not free, and it is not being put on the internet by those developers, meaning that it isn't intended to be purchased or acquired in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Intellectual property is just a legal thing. But again, you are still not taking it from the original creator, you are just making a duplicate. I'm glad piracy is illegal, but I just hate the way it's been defined by law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fex Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 (edited) I believe part of the problem with piracy lies in the hands of the developers / publishers. Look how many games (Nintendo especially) are released in America then take 5+ months to get released over in Europe. I understand translation is a time consuming process but seriously some people aren't going to wait for a game to be released. Also the price of games is a little steep, and remember a typical DS game priced at ?30, ?10 of that money goes straight to the retail store you buy it from, then the distributor surely takes a cut such a company like EUK. And if the release is on a Nintendo platform, do Nintendo take a small percentage as well? Then take away the money to produce the box, cartridge and instructions. I'm sure the developers get a minimal cut of the actual ?30 you spend. Which is a shame. ________ Vaporizer review Edited April 28, 2011 by fex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Piracy is stealing. It doesn't matter if the game is downloaded or if it comes on a disc...you are still taking something for free when it is on sale, and you are doing it illegally. The game is not free, and it is not being put on the internet by those developers, meaning that it isn't intended to be purchased or acquired in that way. I don't argue the fact that it's wrong and is stealing, just that with something that they don't actually physically lose when someone 'takes' it means that theoretically people with no intention of buying it won't affect their sales either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tito Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I Finally have my Wii, and guess what, it's a modded machine. Am I proud of it? No. Would I rather have an un-modded machine and support even more (as in "I do support it even though I have a modded machine") the industry that brought so much joy into my life? Yes, and I fully intend to do it when I'm living somewhere with decent prices and wages, like Canada or Europe. But before you brand me a thief, I ask you to consider the following: I live in Brasil, where the minimum wage is R$ 380,00. The Wii costs about R$ 1900,00, and original games go for R$ 250,00-300,00. That means Brazilians who earn the minimum wage would need to work for nearly 6 months just to buy a Wii and a game. Faced with this situation, can you honestly say that you would, in the words of Iun, "take a stand against the pirates and adopt a holier-than-thou attitude"? Or would you "play the games you want to play, in the only way you can"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcj metroid Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 hey piracy on the wii isn't as easy as you would think.. it's not a case of downloading wii games.. In fact I don't think you can... It's a hassle with wii really. you have to rent the game and then copy it to a dvd not to mention having to have to mod the wii which costs a bit overall. The ds really is a problem though. I Finally have my Wii, and guess what, it's a modded machine. Am I proud of it? No. Would I rather have an un-modded machine and support even more (as in "I do support it even though I have a modded machine") the industry that brought so much joy into my life? Yes, and I fully intend to do it when I'm living somewhere with decent prices and wages, like Canada or Europe. But before you brand me a thief, I ask you to consider the following: I live in Brasil, where the minimum wage is R$ 380,00. The Wii costs about R$ 1900,00, and original games go for R$ 250,00-300,00. That means Brazilians who earn the minimum wage would need to work for nearly 6 months just to buy a Wii and a game. Faced with this situation, can you honestly say that you would, in the words of Iun, "take a stand against the pirates and adopt a holier-than-thou attitude"? Or would you "play the games you want to play, in the only way you can"? I'm convince most members are hypnotised when they say I HATE PIRACY SO DAMN MUCH.. I mean cmon like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fex Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) hey piracy on the wii isn't as easy as you would think.. it's not a case of downloading wii games.. In fact I don't think you can... It's a hassle with wii really. you have to rent the game and then copy it to a dvd not to mention having to have to mod the wii which costs a bit overall. The wii is extremely easy to mod especially if you have one of the first few batches of wii. A chip costs in the region of ?20-?25 and all you have to do is solder four wires. Download the game and burn it to a DVD, it really isn't hard at all. From what I've seen the Xbox requires alot more to mod it, and you've got the ban hammer to watch out for. ________ NEXIUM LAWSUIT INFORMATION Edited April 28, 2011 by fex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshMat Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 You can get Memory Units for the 360 that basically mod it while avoiding the ban hammer. EDIT: I'd like to point out i don't pirate games anymore, i never modded my ps2, wii, cube or anything since the ps1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirtynine. Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 You can get Memory Units for the 360 that basically mod it while avoiding the ban hammer. EDIT: I'd like to point out i don't pirate games anymore, i never modded my ps2, wii, cube or anything since the ps1. you cant. 1010100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshMat Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Odd, my mate reckoned that's how his dad's was modded. Meh, probably bullshitting me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy2211 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Well...it wouldn't be like they were stealing my things, more like using a device to generate copies of my things then take them for themself. Piracy never seems to stop games from selling well though...it's somewhat 'niche'. Good for all of us I think. No, it'd be like someone using a device which copies your things and then takes their value out of your wallet so you don't have the money you'd be due for them. People are made redundant and put out of work because their employees couldn't turn a profit on whatever content they made. I's rediculous, we're all effect by pirates and whatever money these companies lose they're just going to find ways to make back from any honest customers. Games sales drop due to piracy? Then their retail prices are going to raise, it's a never ending downward spiral and piracy is one of the reasons which is ruining it for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshMat Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Woah jammy that's going a bit far. Plus, how is he trying to make us pity him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy2211 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Woah jammy that's going a bit far.Plus, how is he trying to make us pity him? I don't know if it's him specifically, I was really just speaking to all the pirates in this thread. The whole "I can't afford it, I'm a student, I have no money" thing just saddens me. It's okay for them to get this content for free at the expense of someone else with a family to feed who gets made redundant cause their latest film or game didn't sell to expectations? Then there's the classic "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" card. Well no, they wouldn't have bought it, cause they're now a converted pirate who haven't bought a piece of software or media since the internet exsisted. They're trying to say though that without piracy they would have never bought a CD, game of film, ever? It's just hyperbole to try and justify the fact they're breaking the law and ruining the experience for anyone with some honesty of morales. Piracy just saddens me I guess, and the laughable ways people try to justify it just angers me. I probably went too far but it's not me you should be angry at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fex Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 (edited) No body is going to say piracy is right. Yet I probably wouldn't have the degree I have now if it wasn't for having the software to work on. And I'd like you to know the "I can't afford it, I'm a student, I have no money" I've been there which im sure the majority of people have and it's true. Yes Uni provide access to the required software, yet the access is extremely limited. At times the only way to get work done, was to do it at home. So yes I downloaded software, and deep down I know its wrong, but it was either that or constantly rely on extensions and get stressed over work piling up. In order to complete my course I need access to Final Cut Pro, After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Indesign, Maya, Pinnacle, and a few others. Now im sorry if it offends you that I never bought any of this software, but even if i bought the student editions of these programs if would amount to thousands. And having an income of ?5000 a year and the majority of that going on rent, there was no possible way I could afford this software. ________ VAPORIZER Edited April 28, 2011 by fex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 For the record I have an umodded PS3, Wii, GCN, PS2, PS1 - in fact all the consoles I own. A-hole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McPhee Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Piracy is wrong, but it isn't all bad. People who pirate games tend to play them in droves, they are basically amped up post-release testers. The pirating community is also deeply engrained in the modding community, theres plenty of games out there that sell on the strength of mods made on pirate copies of the game. Without piracy Peer2Peer technology wouldn't be as far advanced either, and loads of file hosting businesses would go out of business. Im not condoning piracy, just giving examples of the bigger picture. Oh and by the way, please not that you are involved in piracy if you have ever: Lent a game/cd/movie to a mate Borrowed a game/cd/movie from a mate Rented a retail copy of a film Made a mix-tape Copied a CD Ripped music to a digital format Made copies of music in a digital format (unless allowed by the EULA) So, if you've never been involved in piracy please raise you're hand. No? Thought not... Is there any way to report this guy for a ban? He's had an infraction for calling someone a ****. Odd, my mate reckoned that's how his dad's was modded. Meh, probably bullshitting me. Only way to mod a 360 is to open her up and attach a drive chip. This tells the drive that the disk you insert is genuine. To complicate matters further you can only copy 360 games by using one of 3/4 models of DVD-RW drive, the 360 picks up on the difference between drives! The machine is practically un-hackable, the 360 knows if you have a drive chip installed. You can't get any deeper in to the machine either, it's probably the most secure console ever made. Shame really, i wanted a new version of XBMC Apparently the Wii is hackable, not sure how long it'll take before people have custom software running though. It took ages for modders to get inside the first Xbox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirtynine. Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Custom firmware on wii = pointless unless you can make it use usb harddrives sticks etc. Microsoft did well with the 360, it basicly works like this, hai yew can hack me if you work hard enough! oh wait yew deed iiittt, where did i put le ban hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiky-NiSuTe Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 i had a note from Hyves.nl today. they deleted the Poll because people banning people, fighting, shouting and mush more ugly things that people should not do over it.. final poll results were Poll question: Is Your Wii modded? 29.7% No but i would like to 29.8% Yes 40.5% No i don't download games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirtynine. Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Just out of interest, for those against piracy, how do you feel about homebrew? I.e XBMC on the original xbox, it contains no pirated material its just a media center, but they have had to mod the console in the first place and it is enabled to play copys if the user wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiky-NiSuTe Posted December 22, 2007 Author Share Posted December 22, 2007 i am not against any other modifications so if you can make your wii run on lenux or windows i am fine with it and if you modify the case its ok. as long as it it legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhaqen Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Legal where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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