Zelda_Rulez Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 They have to translate it in about 4 more languages, which takes a lot of time even if the source language is English. It annoys me because I live in the Netherlands, and I wouldn't even play a game if it was in Dutch. That would be horrible, I always play in Engelish.
Owen Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 thats absolute rubbish.. This is one of the best forums on the internet. If you want bad... look at the comment sections on gonintendo. This thread should be stickied to mark its significne Thanks for stating my opinion is absolute rubbish. I'm pleased your opinions matter more then others then and you enjoy this forum on a daily basis. In a way you've proved my point.
thirtynine. Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Thanks for stating my opinion is absolute rubbish. I'm pleased your opinions matter more then others then and you enjoy this forum on a daily basis. In a way you've proved my point.see you portray it as a bad thing. (sometimes people on this forum are genuinly wrong and need to be corrected.) however my saying to you that your wrong then you saying your right is fun imho.
Teppo Holmqvist Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Theres never any discussion, it's just posting what you as a individual person believes and someone posting back that your 100% wrong and what your thinking is always incorrect and being totally knocked down. Wheres the discussion? Might as well lock this thread. The problem here is that we have certain posters who always crap threads with same bitching, same tired arguments, and then act like they are victims when others disagree. If people haven't understood it, this bitching tends to derail threads and turn them into flamefests.
Oditri Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Actually, if you look at some of the Xbox 360 games: Gears of War, Oblivion, Overlord, Call of Duty 2 & 3, Crackdown, The Darkness (and many others I can't be bothered to list), all of which came out in both America and Europe within 10 days. It just doesn't make sense that so many other companies can manage it, but Nintendo can't, unless of course all these different studios are delaying potentially massive sales by 5 months, I'm guessing there might be something seriously wrong with nintendo's localisation team. P.S. This is actually my first post here on the forums.
Teppo Holmqvist Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Actually, if you look at some of the Xbox 360 games: Gears of War, Oblivion, Overlord, Call of Duty 2 & 3, Crackdown, The Darkness (and many others I can't be bothered to list), all of which came out in both America and Europe within 10 days. Why? Because these games have ENGLISH as their primary language, and developed in the west. When you have japanese game, it is first translated to english, and then to European languages. With western game you can start translation way before game is even going to betatesting. This is how it always works. Microsoft naturally doesn't suffer from this, as it doesn't have nearly any japanese games and/or support*. Nearly all recent PS3 games have been western developed too. Nintendo's games, in the other hand, are always japanese, with only exceptions being Kuju and Retro. It wasn't just coincidence that during last generation it took 4-6 months for all those cool japanese games to hit our shores. * Blue Dragon, one of their few japanese titles have been under localization for 7 months, and it has less text than Super Paper Mario. Minna no Golf for PS3 has been four months, and it is simple golf game.
Owen Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 see you portray it as a bad thing. (sometimes people on this forum are genuinly wrong and need to be corrected.) however my saying to you that your wrong then you saying your right is fun imho. I don't understand your point. Sorry. Everyone's allowed an opinion? Correct? If you disagree with that opinion thats fine, however there are ways of putting it. Thats all i meant. ------------------------------------------------------- I have nothing against the majority of people on this forum, i just feel alot of these threads are about NOE, which is fine. If someone posts a negative opinion about them, it's like an onslaught of abuse and people go out of there way to prove them 100% wrong and state what they have posted is aload of bull-shit, when sometimes someone has brought up a very good point (like our new friend Oditri). Nintendo (espicially NOE) as a company isn't perfect, it's just ashame that a small majority aren't able to admit that. There great dont get me wrong, but to be able to admit that they have made quite a few mistakes would be refreshing. Then people get personal! I know i'm impatient, i know i moan. Quite frankly i don't need some stranger on here telling me who i am and what i act like! I'm a nice person, i know i am. I don't throw abuse at anyone until i feel they really deserve it and i've been pro-vocked, unlike some who will immediately will go for personl attacks. I won't be changing for anyone, who i am is who i am. If i annoy you with what i write, then you know where the 'ignore' button is, it's that simple. Thats all. Oh and Blender, i apologise if you thought my post was aimed at you or you found it to be a little nasty. I do like this forum, but it can be awfully irritating sometimes.
steggy Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Why? Because these games have ENGLISH as their primary language, and developed in the west. When you have japanese game, it is first translated to english, and then to European languages. With western game you can start translation way before game is even going to betatesting. This is how it always works. Microsoft naturally doesn't suffer from this, as it doesn't have nearly any japanese games and/or support*. Nearly all recent PS3 games have been western developed too. Nintendo's games, in the other hand, are always japanese, with only exceptions being Kuju and Retro. It wasn't just coincidence that during last generation it took 4-6 months for all those cool japanese games to hit our shores. * Blue Dragon, one of their few japanese titles have been under localization for 7 months, and it has less text than Super Paper Mario. Minna no Golf for PS3 has been four months, and it is simple golf game. Looking at it from another angle, how come Zelda:TP only took a couple of weeks to come out here? From my understanding it's because it was being translated during development. Now I'm not saying that they should do this for all titles, the extra man-hours for a simple change in text could add a lot of cost to localisation. But maybe they should do something like this for there main big titles. And then Europe might of got Smash Brothers this side of Christmas.
Owen Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Looking at it from another angle, how come Zelda:TP only took a couple of weeks to come out here? From my understanding it's because it was being translated during development. Now I'm not saying that they should do this for all titles, the extra man-hours for a simple change in text could add a lot of cost to localisation. But maybe they should do something like this for there main big titles. And then Europe might've got Smash Brothers this side of Christmas. Very true. Good point. Teppo your view on this? Seeing as you have an array or gaming knowledge? (and yes i meant that 'not' in a sarcastic way!)
Oditri Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 * Blue Dragon, one of their few japanese titles have been under localization for 7 months, and it has less text than Super Paper Mario. How? The game is 3 discs long, and has a ton of text. Oh, and the small fact of having to put in English voice acting, which Paper mario doesn't have. The fact that the game is of Japanese origin makes no difference. Super Paper Mario is taking 5 months to get from America to Europe, all the games I listed have taken fewer than 10 days. In what part of my post did I say anything about Japan? In what part of this topic did anyone way anything about Japan? I realise that localisation takes time, but with the money Nintendo are making, surely they could afford to hire a couple more translators to speed up release in Europe, meaning quicker sales?
Gizmo Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 They have to translate it in about 4 more languages, which takes a lot of time even if the source language is English. It annoys me because I live in the Netherlands, and I wouldn't even play a game if it was in Dutch. That would be horrible, I always play in Engelish. Oh, the irony Gotta love it when someone is talking about grammar or spelling or something, and makes what would normally be a simple typing error into something quite funny Don't mean anything by it Zelda_Rulez, just poking fun:hehe:
Teppo Holmqvist Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 How? The game is 3 discs long, and has a ton of text. Xbox 360 uses standard DVDs, and one minute of 720p resolution full motion film material takes 170 MBs worth of space. If that wouldn't be enough, audiotrack is also fully uncompressed 5.1 (meaning that it takes *lots* of space). Not to mention that because everything doesn't fit into single disc, many gigs worth of material is repeated from disc to disc (engine, most graphical assets, some FMVs, etc.). This is why Blue Dragon is on the three discs. Text is cheap, but HD-material isn't. This is ironically one of those rare cases when Blu-Ray *might* be justified. And before you ask why most games don't have this problem, reason is simple. Most developers use their in-game engines to do cut-scences, and this doesn't really take much space. all the games I listed have taken fewer than 10 days. In what part of my post did I say anything about Japan? In what part of this topic did anyone way anything about Japan? All the games you listed were of western developed, those are easy to localize. Nearly everything that comes from japan needs to be translated twice, first english, and after that is completely done, then to FIGS. So let's assume you have Final Fantasy XII. US team translates the game, it takes 9 months, and game is ready for release in USA. Only now when the script is done, European team can start their own translation. I realise that localisation takes time, but with the money Nintendo are making, surely they could afford to hire a couple more translators to speed up release in Europe, meaning quicker sales? NoE's english to FIGS team is extremely finetuned and efficient, but required japan-english-FIGS route does take additional time. Many developers have tried to fasten process, but there isn't simply enough people on the market that could speak japanese fluently and would be willing to localize games. It is unpleasant job with relatively low wages.
Oditri Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 So...what about MGS4? You know, the game's advertised as "simultaneous worldwide release", and I'm guessing that Hideo Kojima isn't American, meaning they're delaying the launch of one of the few decent PS3 exclusive games in America and Japan, just to say they're launching simultaneously? Oh, and what about Blue Dragon, come to think of it. A late August launch for America, an early September launch here? That just screams "5-months worth of localisation" to me... I'm sorry to pick holes, but this seems like something of a problem Nintendo needs to deal with. I can just see the speech at next year's E3: "Here at Nintendo, we make games for everyone. Except Europeans." Possibly a controversial opinion on a Nintendo forum, but if nobody argued the other way, we'd all turn into fanboys, and that's the last thing anyone wants.
blender Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 Thanks for stating my opinion is absolute rubbish. I'm pleased your opinions matter more then others then and you enjoy this forum on a daily basis. In a way you've proved my point. I only did what you said people always do. In fact line for line I have reversed your original post. You need to pay more attention to yourself. You say Theres never any discussion, it's just posting what you as a individual person believes and someone posting back that your 100% wrong and what your thinking is always incorrect and being totally knocked down.Wheres the discussion? Might as well lock this thread. I say (to live up to your expectations) thats absolute rubbish ... This is one of the best forums on the internet. If you want bad... look at the comment sections on gonintendo. This thread should be stickied to mark its significne the pace has been set and you are lagging my friend
Gizmo Posted July 16, 2007 Posted July 16, 2007 I think we can expect solid dates for Brawl and Galaxy at the Leipzig expo.
jammy2211 Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 So...what about MGS4? You know, the game's advertised as "simultaneous worldwide release", and I'm guessing that Hideo Kojima isn't American, meaning they're delaying the launch of one of the few decent PS3 exclusive games in America and Japan, just to say they're launching simultaneously? The game getting continuous delays and yet to actually prove it's set for a worldwide release? MGS4 is the biggest game in Konami's recent history and I'm sure dedicating more resouses to it's localization isn't an issue (Just look how long Eledees took if it's not as important to them...) Oh, and what about Blue Dragon, come to think of it. A late August launch for America, an early September launch here? That just screams "5-months worth of localisation" to me... Microsoft are an American company, it's alot easier to find localization teams in America then in Japan. I would imagine they're translating Blue Dragon into all 5 languages simultaneous, cause well, how many games do they make in Japanese first and then English? Not many. I'm sorry to pick holes, but this seems like something of a problem Nintendo needs to deal with. They're a company based entirely in Japan who have the job of translating well over 30 games a year, many of which that have a huge amount of text. They can only employ a certain number of people, in all honesty I think they're doing a great job, under the circumstances. I can just see the speech at next year's E3: "Here at Nintendo, we make games for everyone. Except Europeans." We still get the games, and for the most part the delays are bareable. If Nintendo took resources out to translate SSBB quicker, then you would only be complaining that SMG or Super Paper Mario were delayed further. Sony are much worse then Nintendo in my experience, but both companies are going to struggle. They're based in Japan and make alot more games then Microsoft do, so comparing them to Microsoft is unfair in all honesty.
Teppo Holmqvist Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 So...what about MGS4? You know, the game's advertised as "simultaneous worldwide release", and I'm guessing that Hideo Kojima isn't American, meaning they're delaying the launch of one of the few decent PS3 exclusive games in America and Japan, just to say they're launching simultaneously? Metal Gear Solid is one of those rare cases where even japanese game has always full english speech (meaning that most of the script is already done in english). And it is obvious that they are delaying the game, as it took 5 months for first Metal Gear Solid to land Europe, 5 months for Metal Gear Solid 2, 5 months for Metal Gear Solid 3, and 6 months for Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence. Notice pattern? And I wouldn't honestly count on promises of worldwide launch when game doesn't even have "solid" release date.
Owen Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 I only did what you said people always do. In fact line for line I have reversed your original post. You need to pay more attention to yourself. You say I say (to live up to your expectations) the pace has been set and you are lagging my friend Ok, cool.
Noodleman Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Thinking about it, most US games are in English, French and Spanish already. So Nintendo are only translating to German? This makes the delays even more unaceptable. Microsoft and Sony can manage it without taking months no excuse at all.
Helmsly Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 They could make games like Smash brothers brawl have a worldwide release if they wanted to its just very easy to treat Europe like crap and get away with it.
Teppo Holmqvist Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Thinking about it, most US games are in English, French and Spanish already. So Nintendo are only translating to German? This makes the delays even more unaceptable. Microsoft and Sony can manage it without taking months no excuse at all. First of all, US games aren't translated to spanish at all, and Nintendo translates to French, Italy, German and Spanish (FIGS). And have you ever even looked how long Sony's japanese titles have taken to localize? Granted, there isn't many of them*, but lets refresh your memory (all titles are for either PS2, PSP or PS3)... Folk's Soul: 5 months Forbidden Siren: 5 months Forbidden Siren 2: 6 months Hot Shots Golf 3: 4 months Hot Shots Golf 5: 4 months ICO: 6 months Legaia 2: 13 months Kingdom of Paradise: 6 months Okage: Shadow King: 7 months Shadow of the Colossus: 5 months Tourist Trophy: 4 months Wild Arms 4: 15 months But when Nintendo localizes game with over 2000 A4s worth of text in four months, they are lazy bastards. * Most Sony's 1st party studios are from the west.
Noodleman Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 First of all, US games aren't translated to spanish at all, and Nintendo translates to French, Italy, German and Spanish (FIGS). And have you ever looked how long Sony's japanese titles have taken to localize? Granted, there isn't many of them*, but lets refresh your memory... Folk's Soul: 5 months Forbidden Siren: 5 months Forbidden Siren 2: 6 months Hot Shots Golf 3: 4 months Hot Shots Golf 5: 4 months ICO: 6 months Legaia 2: 13 months Okage: Shadow King: 7 months Shadow of the Colossus: 5 months Tourist Trophy: 4 months Wild Arms 4: 15 months But when Nintendo localizes game with over 2000 A4s worth of text in four months, they are lazy bastards. * Most Sony's 1st party studios are from the west. I was talking about US to Europe release schedules not Japanese though. And im pretty sure most of the US games I have, have a Spanish language option. Will check tonight though.
DCK Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 FFS do some people here think that Nintendo want to have these games late? NOE does their best but it's a hard job. We're lucky enough that some games get better treatment (like Zelda) but there are hardly games with sales to justify that.
Noodleman Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 FFS do some people here think that Nintendo want to have these games late? NOE does their best but it's a hard job. We're lucky enough that some games get better treatment (like Zelda) but there are hardly games with sales to justify that. If Microsoft can manage it there is no reason Nintendo can't. So yes they must not want to.
steggy Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 FFS do some people here think that Nintendo want to have these games late? NOE does their best but it's a hard job. We're lucky enough that some games get better treatment (like Zelda) but there are hardly games with sales to justify that. In certain cases, yes, Metroid Pinball for the DS for instance. Why Europe got Metroid Pinball 18 Months later than the US I do see your point that they probably want the games out on time, but when your faced with an answer like that it doesnt exactly fill you with confidence. I just think a few more games should get the better treatment (like Zelda), I can understand Super Paper Mario. Because it's not exactly a main stream, big seller like Zelda. But Smash Brothers is a big seller and I think that this should get the same treatment that Zelda got. But then again maybe they've pulled resources off of Smash Brothers and onto Galaxy, in which case I whole heartedly agree.
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