Shorty Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 You forget to include those 90,000 Prison Loving Criminals.... Besides anything that we do to reduce global warming China will make up for the Emissions we have saved and then triple the output... It's all looking a little bit futile... Well those 90000 criminals are mostly made up of the personalities I listed, but you have a good point.
BlueStar Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Again we see a rather confused argument from the global warming denial camp - does global warming not exist, or is is happening but is due to natural reasons rather than humans? because these are two different arguments. Some kids watch nonsense like The Great Global Warming Swindle and a few student blogs about how global warming is all a hoax and suddenly they know more about it than the IPCC.
Twilight Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Global warming is most likely doesn't even exist. So do you think all the shit we put in to the atmosphere doesn´t have any kind of effect to the climate of the Earth? We can pollute as much as we want and nothing happens? I find that really hard to believe.
DCK Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Global warming is most likely doesn't even exist. Yes it does. Problem is, it gets exaggerated often to the point where there are outright lies (even in An Inconvenient Truth), making the theory seem less credible. Global warming however, is a far more logical explanation than natural causes.
Ant-Shimmin Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Wether you believe this whole Global Warming issue is one thing, but something is deffinatly happening....
Charlie Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Global warming however, is a far more logical explanation than natural causes. I really can't see how it is after even just glancing at the picture I posted on the last page. This has happened before, when there were no humans to pollute the atmosphere.
mike-zim Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I was just about to say that. It's just the natural rise and falls of temperature the Earth has seen time and time again. This graph shows and explains all. that image shows a direct link with CO2 and the temperature. the temperature is now at its peak according to the graph and therefore should begin to drop. How ever CO2 keeps going up thousands of years ago there were no cars planes etc. therefor the graph really is only a nice picture. if you take the CO2 line and keep it moving up guess what happens with the temperature?
BlueStar Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I really can't see how it is after even just glancing at the picture I posted on the last page. This has happened before, when there were no humans to pollute the atmosphere. There is more to it than that one graph, as you well know. Or maybe you should send that graph to the hundreds of scientists who've published peer reviewed reports outlining what the problem is, maybe they've never seen it
Shino Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 How the hell do they measure temperatures of 400 000 years ago?
Shorty Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 So do you think all the shit we put in to the atmosphere doesn´t have any kind of effect to the climate of the Earth? We can pollute as much as we want and nothing happens? I find that really hard to believe. But there's always been crap pumped into the air, naturally - by the Earth itself. And the hole in the o-zone layer is actually better now than it was 20-30 years ago.
Mikey Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 So do you think all the shit we put in to the atmosphere doesn´t have any kind of effect to the climate of the Earth? We can pollute as much as we want and nothing happens? I find that really hard to believe. I don't know, but from what I've read, a lot of it seems to be bullshit. I'm no expert mind. There was a good episode of Penn and Teller - Bullshit on youtube about it a while ago. It seemed to make a lot of sense on the matter.
Ant-Shimmin Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Furthering what Shorty has said about the Ozone layer, it is closing up in some places...
BlueStar Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 But there's always been crap pumped into the air, naturally - by the Earth itself. And the hole in the o-zone layer is actually better now than it was 20-30 years ago. That's because humans have taken large scale action to reduce the use of CFCs, practically erradicating their release into the atmosphere. You know that's a different issue to greenhouse gasses such as CO2?
mike-zim Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Blue star it seems like you and i think exactly alike. please do not confuse the whole in the ozon with green house gases.
Twilight Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 But there's always been crap pumped into the air, naturally - by the Earth itself. And the hole in the o-zone layer is actually better now than it was 20-30 years ago.O-zone holes and global warming are two completely different issues. We were able to reduce the amount of harmful CFCs and therefore the o-zone should be getting back to normal in about 50 years. Global warming though is only getting worse because fumes like CO2 and H2O block the sun´s radiation from getting back to space (greenhouse effect) which causes rise in temperature.
gaggle64 Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 People need to understand that the existence of global warming is not a recent scientific debate. It's a possibility that has been under heavy scrutiny by a large portion of the scientific community since the early eighties. A consensus had already be reached by the vast majority of scientists and experts by the time this issue finally entered the public domain a few short years ago. Interesting fact: The only thing slowing down global warming is the amount of smog in the atmosphere.
Shorty Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I know ozone problems arent the same as the greenhouse effect, but I was responding to some line like "all that crap we pump into the atmosphere", which I didn't think was just a reference to GHG. Regardless, Moria's graph shows this is something that's always been happening. I just tend to find that half the things we're told will happen never do. Nuclear War, 200,000 British children being killed by bird flu, WWIII, Millennium bug. Life always just goes on for our generation. The only predicted things that ever seem to come true are taxes rising.
Ant-Shimmin Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I know ozone problems arent the same as the greenhouse effect, but I was responding to some line like "all that crap we pump into the atmosphere", which I didn't think was just a reference to GHG. Regardless, Moria's graph shows this is something that's always been happening. I just tend to find that half the things we're told will happen never do. Nuclear War, 200,000 British children being killed by bird flu, WWIII, Millennium bug. Life always just goes on for our generation. The only predicted things that ever seem to come true are taxes rising. Amen to that... Forgive people to be sceptical when scientists and what not have predicted all sorts of crap....
mike-zim Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 the facts are stareing us in the face. is it a coincidence that in the fine balance that is nature, all over the world people are having the most servier weather for decades? and it is true. the only reason why we aren't all in a water world situation now is because of the particle polution that is being pumped into the air. We have a choice and soon we wont have a choice because the damage will be irriversable. You can not beat nature. If we dont respect it soon we will come to realise that we are all animals after all and as we have done to the Dodo we can do to ourselves. I know very doom and gloom but it is a real threat that so many do not take seriously enough.
BlueStar Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I know ozone problems arent the same as the greenhouse effect, but I was responding to some line like "all that crap we pump into the atmosphere", which I didn't think was just a reference to GHG. Right. So to back up your argument you mention a time when we pumped loads of crap into the atmosphere, it did loads of damage, we sucessfully changed our behaviour and as a result the problem began to reverse. You didn't really think that one through, did you.
DCK Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I really can't see how it is after even just glancing at the picture I posted on the last page. This has happened before, when there were no humans to pollute the atmosphere.There's no denying in that. Today, however, we are seeing a rapid increase in the last 50 years or so. We are accelerating the effect; there's no denying we are outputting more CO2 than a natural Earth would do.
Gaijin von Snikbah Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I dont think humans will be able to reduce their pollution fast enough for it to have an impact on the warming. But there are things we can do to reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, like increasing the amount of plankton in the sea.
Shorty Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Right. So to back up your argument you mention a time when we pumped loads of crap into the atmosphere, it did loads of damage, we sucessfully changed our behaviour and as a result the problem began to reverse. You didn't really think that one through, did you.No, I mentioned a time when crap was pumped into the atmosphere naturally, as in volcanoes in the middle of the oceans spewing ash into the skies - and my point was that even when all that has happened, even before recorded history, life has still gone on.
BlueStar Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 No, I mentioned a time when crap was pumped into the atmosphere naturally, as in volcanoes in the middle of the oceans spewing ash into the skies - and my point was that even when all that has happened, even before recorded history, life has still gone on. CFCs don't come from volcanoes. CO2 doesn't put a hole in the ozone layer. Putting extra CO2 into the atmosphere creates positive feedback and causes additional problems. it isn't just a case of "Oh, there's CO2 already so more wont hurt.". I don't think you've actually looked at what scientists are saying the problem is. When there was the black death life "still went on". We're still here. Doesn't mean it wasn't a bad thing. And even if you're saying the warming is a natural occurance, then it's still going to make stuff happen, stuff which will probably make life a lot more difficult in many aspects. You're showing a graph that proves CO2 levels are releated to warming. Adding to those CO2 levels is definitely a bad thing, especially because of the positive feedback I mentioned. A 1% increase in greenhouse gasses, such as CO2, does not equal only a 1% increase in temperature because that one percent increase in temperature leads in turn leads to more evaporation and more water vapour (which in itself is a gas which traps heat), that extra water vapour causes more warming, which causes more water vapour, which causes more warming...
UK Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Yeah, it's good. Palm trees, white sand and clear water without going abroad. Cannot wait.
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