Jamba

Agh! What! Don't go back to sleep. Give us info!

Sorry if that came across as snide. Was very tired last night. I can understand your arguement but what are you basing you arguement on? The fact that animals have nerves and a brain? So does your computer. Very few animals are cognitive and I'm sure that we eat very few of them. Could you suggest something to me that shows that what we eat has feelings?

Yeah I would think so. I'm guessing that L is a neutral character to has to win by catching Yagami Light. If this is the case then that character might help us but obviously might lead to them winning.

Great. Death Note time... oh dear. I get the basic principle but I'm so gonna have to watch the anime to get the niuances. I guess though that this guy was somebody trying to catch Light. Did L actually end up being evil in the series?

So Mickey Mouse and Winnie the Pooh maybe?

Well interviewee could have been captured it just wasnt written down outright.

Go have fun. Sleeping with people that you know you aren't going to be with can seem cheap but a one off can be fun and refreshing. It's a bit of a gamble but it'll keep you out of/ get you into trouble.

Jesus christ, do you actually believe that?

Ahh Rockin, so ideas people... possessive goo... oh is that the stuff from futurama?

Yes its horrible but wont messing them up just perpetuate the violent cycle?

I know what you mean here, been there lots. Sounds like you know what you want but you're impatient. Nobody has met the standard (which sounds like you respect yourself enough to impose that) and your trying to put it out there to check if the reason why Miss Right hasn't shown up is something to do with you. Believe me, its not you. She's just stuck in traffic right now

So you have decided about plants, thats fine cos it's open field. Nobody knows but you are still not sure that they don't. I'm not happy that you used the word murder. This word is specifically used to describe the purposeful killing of another human. By using it to describe the killing of an animal shows that you are using it to anthropomorphise them, making them seem vulnerable. Unnecessary consumption? Your precious foxes do that. They will get into a hen house and slaughter every bird in there and only take 2 away. The rest are just dead. Its a problematic area. In evolution and survival, killing is invaluable. But as we exist as we do now, we play by different rules but we still have an anthropological history. We are omnivores biologically speaking, patricularly efficient and eating meat, fruit and certain carbohydrates. We can cast off the shackles of our history to stop killing. But where do you stop? Do you stop the lion killing the gazelle and feed him a veggie alternative? *About the mechanisms comment: You are made up of the same mechanism that are found in a plant with a different system for delivering fluids around you. You need to eat to survive and therefore you move, because you need to. All of your higher brain functions are just mechanisms that have developed over evolutionary time to help you survive better. On a cellular level we are quite similar to plants. Strangely at this level they are more advanced than we are.

Depends a little I'd guess. In most cases though it's fine to be picky, most people just get worried about it because they think that they will reject their "one chance". Which is crap. On the other hand, if you are being picky out of fear (risking breaking your heart or the chance of being locked in a relationship with the wrong person is scary stuff!) then that's different. You need to really look into what it is that your being picky about. Either way, you just need to have the confidence to know that you are going to be ok, no matter what. Woman (or man) or not. Some people may confuse being picky about looks as being shallow. This is often not true at all. If you don't find a woman attractive that's neither her or your fault. Are you thinking this because people keep on telling you that girls you reject are "perfect for you" and that kind of stuff?

You are a series of mechanisms but you are still alive and so are plants. It's impossible to for you to fathom whether a plant perceives it's existence or not. It's obvious that they don't do it in the same way that we do but they may still 'feel' in some way, maybe even be conscious. Not really. You don't really have the ability to feel per say. Emotions and feelings are biological mechanisms that we have evolved to have to help with social interaction and learning with (emotional) context. Very few other creatures need this adaptation so they just don't have it (or havent got it yet). The ability to figure out a puzzle is not linked to effective social interaction directly. But again, intelligence? Not really something you can measure so you can't really say...

So folks, my thread the other time was quite interesting and enlightening. It died after a while but I am still feeling woes amongst the congregation. Come winge, moan and advice seek. (**DISCLAIMER**I'll do my best just don't sue me **DISCLAIMER** ) My gem for the day, inspired by another convo. There are lots of single people here who hate it, like really hate it. Most people find it inexplicable why they feel like that but bare this in mind: life is full of so much and relationships are only a small part. If you define yourself by the search for a relationship then you will be empty of all else and have nothing to offer someone that you may meet.

You see, I was going to bring this up in the other thread. Talking about animals having feelings or being able to feel things is symptom of being human. We try to identify with everything around us as a way of understanding it. With animals , we see patterns of behaviour which we may think are feelings or cognition but really we are just superimposing our emotional and cognitive existence onto them as a way of understanding. This is anthropomorphisication; humanising non-human forms. In reality however these may just be adaptive responses. A wood lice runs out of dry, bright, cold places into warm, dark, damp environments. We may think of this as "wanting" these conditions but they are actually biologically programmed to move towards it as a survival mechanism. It is very difficult to tell whether an animal or plant feels. As these feelings are perceptions in actuality, defining them in other life forms without anthropomorphisication is pretty much impossible. But yeah more on this in a bit.

Two things that are very hard to define.

Here's my problem (and it's only a small quibble really) why do you value animal life but not plant life? Do you not use bleach to kill bacteria in your kitchen and bathroom? Surely that's killing animals too.

Y'see Domo Kun has illustrated why i didn't really wanna get involved. He thinks that killing anything is wrong period. His views and opinions are fine but they are not based on anything factual and neither is the opinion people like me who are ok with killing. This is what the debate boils down to: Can you justify killing something and if so at what level and in what circumstance? It's all completely intellectual and leads to very circular arguements.

I had an interesting conversation with someone once. We were talking about the UK's attitude to animal welfare and conservation and all that k-jazz and we got onto wolves being an (origianlly) indigenous species in the UK. I find it funny that people would be horrified is we re-introduced wolves, they would learn to repect wildlife again. And so I realised that conservation is rarely done for the right reasons. Usually its people settling their own conscience, thinking that they are doing well. Nice one...

That does sound like a slightly coloured view but I konw the kind of people that you are talking about. However around the rest of the countryside, there are plenty of hunts that require dog handlers, horse trainers and many many other viallge folk to make it possible. The co-operation between the huntsman and the organisers are what brings them together. But yeah, every case is not going to be like I suggest it. I think that animal rights activists are extremely dangerous people. They are terrorists and in my view their cause and logic is broken. I'd rather we hunted them than foxes.

Sorry for being a bit over zealous. It is usually used in an insulting fashion and the way you punctuated a sentence by using it twice inferred that you were using it in that way. Very few people say "posh" without sounding like they're spitting out the p sound.

I liked your opinion before. Now I just think that you're a narrow minded bigotted tit. Have u been on a hunt? Do you know people who do hunt? Do you have anything near vaguely first hand experience of the sport? People who have a go at people for being "posh" are just self-pitying wankers. It's a knee-flinch response which is totally uncalled for. I REALLY hate people who actually discriminate against others for having any money at all. A lot of the people who go on the hunts aren't that well off.

It's not u, it's everyone else. Most people come into these threads to state their opinion not have a discussion. Short answer: Good: Creates employment for people, bridges the class gap, keeps English heirtage alive, keeps national heritage sites funded, is actually sport (like exercise and team work kind of thing). Bad: Most hunts are just blood trailes now. Hardly ever a fox involved so the arguement for animal rights i kind of invalid (it was a huge debateably grey area to start with!) Dangerous sport (my only genuine concern) and encourages the breeding and upbringing of more ferral dogs.

Not even going to comment. I'm obstaining from this thread as I doubt anyone will want to hear anyone else's view.