Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Spoilers Topic)

[Mike]

I've had the same problem that I don't have anyone to play multiplayer with, unlike with Melee, when I still lived with my parents in the holidays from uni, and my old friends from school would come over. So I've basically been having a lot of matches against the CPU. Apart from that problem, though, which isn't the game's fault, I've thoroughly enjoyed Brawl - definitely better than Melee, which had been my favourite GameCube game.

[Invisible Painting]

I guess my problem is I can't enjoy the multiplayer of this game because I have no one to play with. And no one wants/can play me online. =/

 

I've never had a problem playing the computer, on any games really. Sure Mario Kart ect are really fun with friends but I have no problem playing the comps. I doubt I will here as well, there isn't really a huge difference other then the atmosphere that is created. But knowing you won't have that means I don't expect it and don't have a problem not having it.

Having played this game for that one day two months ago ish it showed me how much I like it, I doubt I'll get bored of it for a while. With the map maker really helping with that front.

[Mike]

Having played this game for that one day two months ago ish it showed me how much I like it, I doubt I'll get bored of it for a while. With the map maker really helping with that front.

 

To be honest, the stage maker is probably my main letdown of Brawl, because the levels it lets you make look so bland. Still, the normal levels are fun enough for me.

[Goron_3]

God i haven't played this game for AGES!

 

I remember how i loved it for the first week and then i realised how basic the game was (edgeguarding is basically out, no combos *sigh*). I dunno, the music is GREAT and one of the things i love about the game, but it's quite meh in other departments

 

real shame.

[Rowan]

Come on guys; please don't talk negatively about Brawl. I really would like to build up to the hype for the European release so that I can finally play it and enjoy the game both online and offline; perhaps taking part in some N-Europe tournaments too About 27 days to go! Can't wait

[Hellfire]

They can talk what the think. In Goron and Zell's case they think it needs to have the hidden techniques Melee had, otherwise it's dumbed down, so they don't like it :P Apparently, the game is quite meh

[Goron_3]

They can talk what the think. In Goron and Zell's case they think it needs to have the hidden techniques Melee had, otherwise it's dumbed down, so they don't like it :P Apparently, the game is quite meh

 

LOLZ.

 

It needs good fighting mechanics to played competitively, it's pretty much a fact lol.

 

Tbh, in every area other than fight mechanics is easily the best smash game ever; music, graphics, unlockables...the amount of stuff in the game is insane.

[somme]

I don't want to play the game competetively so it's still good for me.

[Eenuh]

I've never had a problem playing the computer, on any games really. Sure Mario Kart ect are really fun with friends but I have no problem playing the comps. I doubt I will here as well, there isn't really a huge difference other then the atmosphere that is created. But knowing you won't have that means I don't expect it and don't have a problem not having it.

Having played this game for that one day two months ago ish it showed me how much I like it, I doubt I'll get bored of it for a while. With the map maker really helping with that front.

 

Well I always have to play the computer as well, but honestly, it gets boring after a while. Especially since you don't get much out of fighting the computer. I had fun collecting trophies in Melee, but in this game I simply can't be bothered it seems. =/

Still don't even have the last character either, but again not bothered to unlock that one since I don't like the character anyway (and don't know what I should do to get him).

 

And the stage builder... I've never used this function in any other game, and won't use it here either. Tried it once and it's pretty boring and bland in my opinion.

 

I bet if I got the chance to play this with/against other people, I'd enjoy it a lot more.

 

Still a great game, but I guess it got a bit over-hyped for me. =P

[Goron_3]

I don't want to play the game competetively so it's still good for me.

 

Exactly. If I had 4 people over i would definately be playing this. It's an awesome game but with badly broken fighting mechanics.

[Hellfire]

LOLZ.

 

It needs good fighting mechanics to played competitively, it's pretty much a fact lol.

 

Tbh, in every area other than fight mechanics is easily the best smash game ever; music, graphics, unlockables...the amount of stuff in the game is insane.

 

Having good fighting mechanics and having Melee's techniques that a handfull of competitive players can't let go are different things. I find the mechanichs much better here and much more balanced to people who don't dwell too much on learning obscure techniques. Maybe you find that dumbing down a game and ruining the mechanics (which most people didn't use in Melee anyway), I find it improving the fighting system. Badly broken fighting mechanics? Seriously, this just says it all. We've been down this lane before and the smash dedicated boards are filled with this, we know it leads nowhere though :P

[Zero]

I haven't stopped playing this game since I got it back in March. I think game has improved on everything melee had and more.

 

I understand what Goron_3 is saying but I disagree. I think the wave dashing and the sort was a result of broken fighting mechanics, hence the reason I believe it's not in brawl.

 

The game seems a lot more fair now imo.

[Goron_3]

Having good fighting mechanics and having Melee's techniques that a handfull of competitive players can't let go are different things. I find the mechanichs much better here and much more balanced to people who don't dwell too much on learning obscure techniques. Maybe you find that dumbing down a game and ruining the mechanics (which most people didn't use in Melee anyway), I find it improving the fighting system. Badly broken fighting mechanics? Seriously, this just says it all. We've been down this lane before and the smash dedicated boards are filled with this, we know it leads nowhere though :P

 

I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying (again). Ignore wavedashing and look at the basic fighting mechanics of brawl. They are BETTER in brawl for those playing the franchise for the FIRST time. I mean, the problem with melee is that once you've played the game for a couple of months, the main problem you had with fighting new players is that firstly, they would mess up their recoveries due to the pace of the game and secondly, when they did recover correctly they wouldn't sweetspot the edge so they would leave themselves open and get KO'd.

 

Is that a good thing though? I first i though it was, but look at it for a second...Smash is different from other fighters for several reasons, one being the fact that you can hit opponents off the level and stop them from getting back on. However, that difference is pretty much gone from Brawl; the game is SO floaty you don't even have to double jump to recover sometimes, let alone use you up+B. Automatically grabbing the edge also means that guarding the edge is pointless because they get invincablity frames.

 

Then there are other things which don't make sense. Combo'ing is out due to there being virtually NO hitstun in the game. Even if you do go for a combo your opponent SHOULD be smart enough to air dodge through it with ease. Grabs are also abysmal in the game; in Smash 64 you use them for KO's, in Melee to lead into Combos...here they just add a few %.

 

Something else which is weird is something they added in to stop noobs from spamming the same move over and over again; as you use the same move again and again, the distance it sends a foe dramatically reduces. At first it sounds like this is great but considering how easy it is to recover now it seems a bit silly to add this because people can survive easily until like 200%.

Oh...and the brokenness is stupid. Look at pit; multiple jumps, an amazing recovery and the BEST projectile? wtf. Compare this to Ganon; slow, weaker than he should be and poor recovery.

Melee was a game of rock, paper, scissors and the variables involves depended not just on character; it was heavily influenced on level choice and your own style of play. Brawl is game or paper-scissors where some characters are SO broken compared to others (like Pit to Ganon), it almost ruins the fun in playing as some characters.

 

*mini rant over lol*. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a wicked game...BUT they made some silly choices over the game, even choices that were supposed to help new people play more.

 

Also Zero, Sakurai confirmed in Aprils (or maybe it was may) issue of Nintendo Power that they put wavedashing in as a tecnhique to help with spacing. They got rid of it because they felt the casual players saw it as a bridge to those who put more time and played the game to the next level. Because of this they also got rid of other things too.

[Zero]

Also Zero, Sakurai confirmed in Aprils (or maybe it was may) issue of Nintendo Power that they put wavedashing in as a tecnhique to help with spacing. They got rid of it because they felt the casual players saw it as a bridge to those who put more time and played the game to the next level. Because of this they also got rid of other things too.

 

Can't say I knew that. It just seemed a bit glitchy imo that I didn't think it was intentional.

 

I know what you are saying about some characters. I hate when people spam Pit's arrows, but I never usually have a problem hitting them out. Pit is really easy to hit with a smash move or with the heavier characters, it's a simple matter of using a direction and A (usually.)

 

I still believe that the game mechanics are better than melee's but, I doubt anything would my mind on that.

[Goron_3]

Can't say I knew that. It just seemed a bit glitchy imo that I didn't think it was intentional.

 

I know what you are saying about some characters. I hate when people spam Pit's arrows, but I never usually have a problem hitting them out. Pit is really easy to hit with a smash move or with the heavier characters, it's a simple matter of using a direction and A (usually.)

 

I still believe that the game mechanics are better than melee's but, I doubt anything would my mind on that.

 

Thing is, once you get even marginally good at predictably your opponents moves it's so easy to play defensively and win. I haven't played the game in months but i still reckon i'd beat most people pretty easily. Aslong as you have a quick mind and can play defensively brawl is a piece of cake.

[Jonnas]

I wonder why people thought Wave-dash was a glitch. From playing normally, you could see it made sense to be in Melee. The way advanced players used it was an exploit, obviously.

 

About Brawl's negatives... From what I've seen in videos, it sucks they made recoveries easier. It's like there's no point in launching your opponents far enough.

 

The rest of the game still looks ace, though.

[Shino]

It is easier to recover, and there's balancing issues, but thankfully I never really did care about that in Smash. As long as I have dodges and fast paced matches, that's enough for me.

[The Bard]

I played Brawl at a friends house on thursday, and we eventually turned it off and played Melee instead after they'd tried out some of the new characters. I think (and I hope) that Melee will be remembered as the defining iteration of the series. Brawl is still a kickass game though, it's a lot of fun at the best of times, but it's also not a fighter anywhere in the same league as Melee.

[Zero]

Thing is, once you get even marginally good at predictably your opponents moves it's so easy to play defensively and win. I haven't played the game in months but i still reckon i'd beat most people pretty easily. Aslong as you have a quick mind and can play defensively brawl is a piece of cake.

 

Then you haven't played me :awesome:

I joke

I know what you mean. The amount of people who just dont attack and wait for you to make a move is unreal.

[Shino]

Then you haven't played me :awesome:

I joke

I know what you mean. The amount of people who just dont attack and wait for you to make a move is unreal.

 

You play as Ike, what were you expecting?

[Goron_3]

I played Brawl at a friends house on thursday, and we eventually turned it off and played Melee instead after they'd tried out some of the new characters. I think (and I hope) that Melee will be remembered as the defining iteration of the series. Brawl is still a kickass game though, it's a lot of fun at the best of times, but it's also not a fighter anywhere in the same league as Melee.

 

Yes i hope people remember it in a few years and realise how perfect it is. It's the best 2d fighter ever imo apart from 3rd strike and SFII:Turbo, and that's saying a lot.

 

Brawl is cool, but it's FAR too slow and i don't like how it rewards playing defensively (well it doesn't really reward it...it's just..weird).

 

Tbh, if you look at SFIV, the guy that is in charge of making changes to the game is one of the worlds best E.Honda players and he's making changes that make the game better competitively but also better for new people to come in and play it. It would have been cool to have some of the pros do the same in brawl.

[Zelda_Rulez]

Yeah I agree with Goron_3 on this. Brawl is just not the fighting game Melee was. No hitstun whatsoever so you can't punish your opponents for making mistakes, and of course the floatiness doesn't help against that either. I'm having a lot of fun playing it, but as a competitive fighter Melee is much much better.

[Zell]

My main criticism with Brawl is that they've added nothing to the core gameplay and only dumbed things down. It's just disguised by the main additions of whackier items and super moves.

[Hellfire]

Look it's very simple, I don't look into things as in depth as you do, the system just feels better and that's what matters to me. I still don't agree with you, I still don't think it's dumbed down nor is it broken, I much prefer this fighting system. You can do combos, your definition of combos in smash was just was too dependant hitstun and the game is floaty because aerial combat is expanded you can do much more in the air than you could before, it's not like I can't string attacks together.

Thing is, you look at the game from the eyes of someone who analyzed every nook and crany of the fighting system in melee, that's apparent in your post, your arguments are complete giberish to people who didn't care about that kind of things. I don't care and most people don't either. It's not like I didn't play melee "seriously", I played a lot and played with a lot of friends, I was really good, yet I never wanted to go to the internet and learn certain techniques and terms, that to me, ruin the magic of games. I do understand what you're saying, but I still don't agree, I just think this game plays much better than Melee and I prefer every aspect of its mechanics. Do you think people even know what hitstun is? It's a new game, either get used to it or play Melee, it's that simple.

Not that this was unexpected, I've been saying since the announcement, competitive melee players wouldn't like any game changes, and lo and behold they don't. Which is OK, but from there to the game being broken goes a loooooooong way.

You say that it gets predictable and you can win easily once you get good, doesn't the reverse apply? You're not the only person to get better when playing a game. I understand that since you were always "worried" about the in depth stuff in Melee that you can't look at Smash any other way now, but I don't think it's hard to understand that most people don't see that, don't know it and don't care.

It's obvious from your mini-rant (you called it not me ) that we played smash for completly different reasons. You say "Smash is different from other fighters for several reasons, one being the fact that you can hit opponents off the level and stop them from getting back on". See, that's not a premise for me, I love Smash because it's a versatile fighter, that can be easily picked up, but you can find depth in it WITHOUT going into obscure message boards to learn techniques, meaning I can play with everyone and always have fun. If players can live longer now, this just makes the game better for me, because I don't play to win quickly, in fact I do the opposite, most of the times when I see openings or a cheap chance I completly ignore it as I don't like playing that way. Things like spamming and edgehogging are completly repulsive to me.

Of course that it's not as competitive as melee was or to put in the way I see it, it's not competitve the way Melee was, I always understood you POV, but isn't that kind of subjective (kind of)? I mean, you can't do the fast combos you did in Melee, you can do it another way, recovering is easier, you need to attack harder, playing defensively is good, learn how to play defensively or how to exploit that, the game is floaty it gives you more chances for aerial combat, etc. New game, new system, new techniques, new strategies, although they might be more accessible (I don't know if they, considering I don't care) than before.

I don't see how I missed your point, and both of us are always posting the same thing but expanding on it :P But take a look at people who say the mechanics are broken, aren't all their arguments based on "advanced" elements of Melee's gameplay? Kind of proves my point. Not broken, different.

 

rant over (?)

[Tellyn]

My main criticism with Brawl is that they've added nothing to the core gameplay and only dumbed things down. It's just disguised by the main additions of whackier items and super moves.

 

I'd say that they've just levelled the playing field by cutting out the exploits that you and Goron were probably used to (not getting at you here by the way) in Melee. I think that's fair and gives people more of a chance rather than not being able to get a hit in on their superpowered friend, such as in Melee.